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Thread: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

    https://publications.parliament.uk/p...188/200188.pdf


    Is there a lawyer in the house right now ?

    I just received this alert from my sharpest and smartest cyber friend. As text, it goes right over my head, so over to you folks for a rapid response because it looks like this thing could sneak through parliament on Friday.

    Along with the pdf my friend said:

    Quote If passed various bodies will be able to basically act outside the law under certain circumstances (which are nebulous at best in definition). For example it will allow the environment agency, gambling authority and police (to name a few) to kidnap, murder or torture people with impunity.
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

    Essentially it is a proposed statute to allow what would otherwise be a criminal act, but lawful in the course of covert human intelligence Operations a.k.a. espionage.

    Additionally the bill propose to amend existing regulatory powers legislation. It’s also at pains to indicate it is in compliance with human rights instruments, European convention on human rights, and also that it requires very specified authorisations before what would otherwise be criminal acts, to be lawful during covert human intelligence operations.
    Last edited by Adi; 16th October 2020 at 00:03.

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    Avalon Member Satori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    https://publications.parliament.uk/p...188/200188.pdf


    Is there a lawyer in the house right now ?

    I just received this alert from my sharpest and smartest cyber friend. As text, it goes right over my head, so over to you folks for a rapid response because it looks like this thing could sneak through parliament on Friday.

    Along with the pdf my friend said:

    Quote If passed various bodies will be able to basically act outside the law under certain circumstances (which are nebulous at best in definition). For example it will allow the environment agency, gambling authority and police (to name a few) to kidnap, murder or torture people with impunity.
    Think James Bond and the “license to kill.” I’m exaggerating to make a point.

    But, under this proposed Bill, the State could authorize specific individuals to commit a crime, including murder, if it is determined by the appropriate authorities that the crime is in the national security or economic interests of the Kingdom, and there is no other less drastic means and methods available to protect the State’s interests.

    I say murder can be authorized because there is no specific provision expressly or by implication disallowing murder from the definition or meaning of “crime.” This is a license to kill if the authorization is obtained. The killer cannot be prosecuted for murder, or any other crime. That’s bad enough. But, the authorization is not limited to matters of national security. It extents to economic matters as well. That’s a huge and dangerous extension of power.

    Also, the proposed Bill is so broad, in my view, it provides far too much discretion to the designated agencies and State actors to authorize the commission of crimes. I did not see any provision requiring judicial review, for instance, of the authorization prior to commission of the crime(s). The Secretary of State seems to have the final word.

    On its face this is a very dangerous proposed Bill. It essentially provides immunity for criminal conduct. What department of government stands empowered to review the authorization and determine the Bill was not complied with and then prosecute those responsible?

    I will say that the Bill cannot be read standing alone. It must be reconciled with other laws on the books. Including those which it purports to amend. It may be that there are protections and safeguards to be found elsewhere.
    Last edited by Satori; 16th October 2020 at 00:37.

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

    If I imagine the Secretary of State with the nod . . . .


    I imagine a political bias, and a personality, AND a secret fraternity or two that's diggable, maybe.


    Which secretary of state is tops, in this ?


    edit:

    Also, this is more like a note to self or a reply to source . . .

    Who the hell decided this was needed and who drafted it (and who are they, in the state machine)
    Last edited by norman; 16th October 2020 at 02:09.
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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    If I imagine the Secretary of State with the nod . . . .


    I imagine a political bias, and a personality, AND a secret fraternity or two that's diggable, maybe.


    Which secretary of state is tops, in this ?


    edit:

    Also, this is more like a note to self or a reply to source . . .

    Who the hell decided this was needed and who drafted it (and who are they, in the state machine)
    I'm not a lawyer but have a smidgeon of grasp of law, I think What Satori articulated was my understanding of its thrust.

    The Home Secretary would I imagine have oversight on this. At the moment that is Priti Patel, and she's dangerous as are all the current Executive.
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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

    There was an in-depth investigation of this on UK Column News --I posted it.
    Cant remember which one,
    It will be on here--some where
    https://www.ukcolumn.org/

    May be this one --they cover a lot of ground

    Chris

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

    As of about an hour or so ago this was passed on its third reading in the House of Commons.

    From Amnesty International

    UK: MPs vote through 'deeply dangerous' Covert Human Intelligence Sources Bill

    Bill that allows public authorities to authorise crimes such as murder and torture passes third reading in Parliament | A ‘hugely worrying’ development, says Amnesty International



    Responding to news that the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill has passed its third reading in Parliament by 313 votes to 98, Kate Allen, Director of Amnesty International UK, said:
    “It’s hugely worrying that we’re a step closer to seeing this deeply dangerous bill become law. MPs are signing off on a licence for government agencies to authorise torture and murder.

    “Giving such disturbing powers to bodies including MI5 and the police could have devastating impacts.

    "We are now urging peers who care about the rule of law to introduce urgent amendments before the bill progresses further through Parliament."
    __________________

    This still needs to be ratified through the House of Lords as a next step before Royal Assent (when a bill becomes an Act) - there may be a hope that legally this could be thrown back to the House of Commons for further amendments.

    Progress of the Bill can be viewed here

    THE BILL:

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill (UK legislation)

    This is UK Column News live at the moment this being Discussed
    It will be available in full later

    Ps.

    Now available --go to minute 43 to hear about the subject of this thread.

    At 54 minutes the Biden situation discussed.

    Chris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQgv29PDMC8
    Last edited by greybeard; 16th October 2020 at 17:28.
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