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Thread: If You Ruled the World....

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    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    I will have to think about this...
    Question Everything, always speak truth...

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    I'd dismantle all technology, divide all habitable land in a fair and equitable manner among all people, and encourage them to return to a state of nature, seek spirituality, restore the family and local communities, grow food, keep the water clean, etc..., and live in peace and harmony amongst themselves--regardless of race, greed, sexual orientation....
    Quote I would ask that all disputes be resolved at a local level, and that the final "appeal", if necessary, be brought to me for resolution.

    I would have and enforce only two rules: 1) Do undo others as you would have them do undo you, and 2) do not intentionally do any harm to any person, creature or nature.
    This implies a power structure, therefore eventually the lower levels would look for ways to raise up the chain of command and power, until the very next person below you would be tempted, then you would must likely be on a situation where you delegated the power so much that a lot of what happens is not under your direct control, and the carpet can be swept from your feet at any time. If you make a trip and trust your people, it is very likely that at some point you won't return from your vacation

    Since there would be no technology available, it also means you would not be in complete awareness or be able to communicate what's happening in real time, you would be caught by surprise. And any news that are fabricated about your demise, would be the only news any people would know about, except for rumors here and there which would soon be labeled as "fake news" and "conspiracy theories".

    People would be programmed to think that anyone that suspects something is wrong about your death most likely did not believe in you in the first place and would be considered a traitor to your memory and leadership example

    The only way to enforce rules is by having a power structure, which eventually gets corrupted no matter what

    Last edited by Mashika; 24th October 2020 at 03:28.

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    In a very high level way I somewhat addressed this in my second "task list" so to speak, on my previous post. I didn't get into any details, but I did indicate that it would be a multi-generational endeavour of changing human overall mindset to understand that closed loop systems are the only viable and sustainable systems long term. This is demonstrable, but it would take time to educate people.

    The concept of ownership would also have to shift, this along with my former point need to be educated into the masses first so they can be willing participants. It is not remotely impossible for any culture to not see ownership in the way western people do - not because western view is more logical, but because it is less so. So this concept is also demonstrable and is a key point in moving from the current unsustainable mindset and systems to ones that we require for both survival, and coming even remotely close to our collective potential.

    My first point was to release all the secrets of the world - from religious (vatican) to private corporations, to archeology, spirituality, military etc. I'm the ruler so I can do that and the masses would actually want to know. This would create a more level playing field of knowledge and allow us to work together more objectively to begin on my above points. The release of all the 'secrets' would be a bit messy, as I indicated, but it would be a "git'r'done" and cleanup afterward situation.

    Addressing the open loop and rivalrous dynamic systems would require a more level playing field to properly address and the above would be that catalyst. Once you address these systems and ways of thought through demonstrable benefit for all, the vast majority will have renewed vigor for creating the new closed loop systems of the future. Open loop systems, that currently run all systems on this planet, can be easily demonstrated as not the most productive or lucrative, in the current climate of humanity wanting a better world. Therefore even the most capitalist mind will have interest. Once closed loop system implementation and the demonstrated advantage to them is properly realized, motivation can be easily given to corporations to work in these areas (efficiencies to be gained), and from there almost all the major problems of humanity are addressed, because those problems are almost all entirely a result of humanity using 'end game' zero sum dynamics in all their endeavours. It will require an augmentation of capitalism but it can be done without massive upheaval.

    So the transition, what happens if we do, what happens if we don't, the logical layings out, the request for everyone's insight and participation, etc. will have to first be brought to and educated to a critical mass, then the work can begin in earnest - this is why it will likely be a multi generational effort ... but it looks doable.

    And then from there ... whatever we want to collectively focus on ....
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 24th October 2020 at 03:28.
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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    In a very high level way I somewhat addressed this in my second "task list" so to speak, on my previous post. I didn't get into any details, but I did indicate that it would be a multi-generational endeavour of changing human overall mindset to understand that closed loop systems are the only viable and sustainable systems long term. This is demonstrable, but it would take time to educate people.

    The concept of ownership would also have to shift, this along with my former point need to be educated into the masses first so they can be willing participants. It is not remotely impossible for any culture to not see ownership in the way western people do - not because western view is more logical, but because it is less so. So this concept is also demonstrable and is a key point in moving from the current unsustainable mindset and systems to ones that we require for both survival, and coming even remotely close to our collective potential.

    My first point was to release all the secrets of the world - from religious (vatican) to private corporations, to archeology, spirituality, military etc. I'm the ruler so I can do that and the masses would actually want to know. This would create a more level playing field of knowledge and allow us to work together more objectively to begin on my above points. The release of all the 'secrets' would be a bit messy, as I indicated, but it would be a "git'r'done" and cleanup afterward situation.

    Addressing the open loop and rivalrous dynamic systems would require a more level playing field to properly address and the above would be that catalyst. Once you address these systems and ways of thought through demonstrable benefit for all, the vast majority will have renewed vigor for creating the new closed loop systems of the future. Open loop systems, that currently run all systems on this planet, can be easily demonstrated as not the most productive or lucrative, in the current climate of humanity wanting a better world. Therefore even the most capitalist mind will have interest. Once closed loop system implementation and the demonstrated advantage to them is properly realized, motivation can be easily given to corporations to work in these areas (efficiencies to be gained), and from there almost all the major problems of humanity are addressed, because those problems are almost all entirely a result of humanity using 'end game' zero sum dynamics in all their endeavours. It will require an augmentation of capitalism but it can be done without massive upheaval.

    So the transition, what happens if we do, what happens if we don't, the logical layings out, the request for everyone's insight and participation, etc. will have to first be brought to and educated to a critical mass, then the work can begin in earnest - this is why it will likely be a multi generational effort ... but it looks doable.

    And then from there ... whatever we want to collectively focus on ....
    But how? Whoever is in charge of cleaning up the mess, and figuring out how to change the people's minds and educate them on this new reality, would be at the top of a new power structure again

    I suspect it would just loop into a new religion of sorts, where people are just following and have great respect for the new leaders, then it starts all over again

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  9. Link to Post #26
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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    In a very high level way I somewhat addressed this in my second "task list" so to speak, on my previous post. I didn't get into any details, but I did indicate that it would be a multi-generational endeavour of changing human overall mindset to understand that closed loop systems are the only viable and sustainable systems long term. This is demonstrable, but it would take time to educate people.

    The concept of ownership would also have to shift, this along with my former point need to be educated into the masses first so they can be willing participants. It is not remotely impossible for any culture to not see ownership in the way western people do - not because western view is more logical, but because it is less so. So this concept is also demonstrable and is a key point in moving from the current unsustainable mindset and systems to ones that we require for both survival, and coming even remotely close to our collective potential.

    My first point was to release all the secrets of the world - from religious (vatican) to private corporations, to archeology, spirituality, military etc. I'm the ruler so I can do that and the masses would actually want to know. This would create a more level playing field of knowledge and allow us to work together more objectively to begin on my above points. The release of all the 'secrets' would be a bit messy, as I indicated, but it would be a "git'r'done" and cleanup afterward situation.

    Addressing the open loop and rivalrous dynamic systems would require a more level playing field to properly address and the above would be that catalyst. Once you address these systems and ways of thought through demonstrable benefit for all, the vast majority will have renewed vigor for creating the new closed loop systems of the future. Open loop systems, that currently run all systems on this planet, can be easily demonstrated as not the most productive or lucrative, in the current climate of humanity wanting a better world. Therefore even the most capitalist mind will have interest. Once closed loop system implementation and the demonstrated advantage to them is properly realized, motivation can be easily given to corporations to work in these areas (efficiencies to be gained), and from there almost all the major problems of humanity are addressed, because those problems are almost all entirely a result of humanity using 'end game' zero sum dynamics in all their endeavours. It will require an augmentation of capitalism but it can be done without massive upheaval.

    So the transition, what happens if we do, what happens if we don't, the logical layings out, the request for everyone's insight and participation, etc. will have to first be brought to and educated to a critical mass, then the work can begin in earnest - this is why it will likely be a multi generational effort ... but it looks doable.

    And then from there ... whatever we want to collectively focus on ....
    But how? Whoever is in charge of cleaning up the mess, and figuring out how to change the people's minds, would be at the top of a new power structure again

    I suspect it would just loop into a new religion of sorts, where people are just following and have great respect for the new leaders, then it starts all over again
    No -- the premise is that you a an un-corruptable ruler. It doesn't say that you lose that authority anywhere. Although without that ability, I do see your point.

    Edit: Let me explain more .... The goal is to bring the understanding to people enough that you educate over generations to realize the benefits of closed loop non-rivalrous dynamics, so that they are seen as superior (which they are when you are facing the self-termination of open loop dynamic systems - which we currently are) . If you can accomplish this over several generation of your "rule", then the environment will have entirely changed from that of how we see it today.

    From there, excess greed will be seen and function as something of only the most weak - not the most powerful ... etc.

    From there you can shift the attention of the human collective to grand collective projects.

    It just needs to be properly demonstrated.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 24th October 2020 at 03:41.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    In a very high level way I somewhat addressed this in my second "task list" so to speak, on my previous post. I didn't get into any details, but I did indicate that it would be a multi-generational endeavour of changing human overall mindset to understand that closed loop systems are the only viable and sustainable systems long term. This is demonstrable, but it would take time to educate people.

    The concept of ownership would also have to shift, this along with my former point need to be educated into the masses first so they can be willing participants. It is not remotely impossible for any culture to not see ownership in the way western people do - not because western view is more logical, but because it is less so. So this concept is also demonstrable and is a key point in moving from the current unsustainable mindset and systems to ones that we require for both survival, and coming even remotely close to our collective potential.

    My first point was to release all the secrets of the world - from religious (vatican) to private corporations, to archeology, spirituality, military etc. I'm the ruler so I can do that and the masses would actually want to know. This would create a more level playing field of knowledge and allow us to work together more objectively to begin on my above points. The release of all the 'secrets' would be a bit messy, as I indicated, but it would be a "git'r'done" and cleanup afterward situation.

    Addressing the open loop and rivalrous dynamic systems would require a more level playing field to properly address and the above would be that catalyst. Once you address these systems and ways of thought through demonstrable benefit for all, the vast majority will have renewed vigor for creating the new closed loop systems of the future. Open loop systems, that currently run all systems on this planet, can be easily demonstrated as not the most productive or lucrative, in the current climate of humanity wanting a better world. Therefore even the most capitalist mind will have interest. Once closed loop system implementation and the demonstrated advantage to them is properly realized, motivation can be easily given to corporations to work in these areas (efficiencies to be gained), and from there almost all the major problems of humanity are addressed, because those problems are almost all entirely a result of humanity using 'end game' zero sum dynamics in all their endeavours. It will require an augmentation of capitalism but it can be done without massive upheaval.

    So the transition, what happens if we do, what happens if we don't, the logical layings out, the request for everyone's insight and participation, etc. will have to first be brought to and educated to a critical mass, then the work can begin in earnest - this is why it will likely be a multi generational effort ... but it looks doable.

    And then from there ... whatever we want to collectively focus on ....
    But how? Whoever is in charge of cleaning up the mess, and figuring out how to change the people's minds, would be at the top of a new power structure again

    I suspect it would just loop into a new religion of sorts, where people are just following and have great respect for the new leaders, then it starts all over again
    No -- the premise is that you a an un-corruptable ruler. It doesn't say that you lose that authority anywhere. Although without that ability, I do see your point.

    Edit: Let me explain more .... The goal is to bring the understanding to people enough that you educate over generations to realize the benefits of closed loop non-rivalrous dynamics, so that they are seen as superior (which they are when you are facing the self-termination of open loop dynamic systems - which we currently are) . If you can accomplish this over several generation of your "rule", then the environment will have entirely changed from that of how we see it today.

    From there, excess greed will be seen and function as something of only the most weak - not the most powerful ... etc.

    From there you can shift the attention of the human collective to grand collective projects.

    It just needs to be properly demonstrated.
    Well you are un-corruptable, but are the other people around you? You can't be everywhere at all times, so you have to delegate, the delegates report back, if you want to make sure they are telling you the truth, you need another set of people who will check on them...

    Also once you and the closer people to you die, you will be remembered and given statues and get possibly called, the "founders" or the "fathers". Then the people who were below your top level trust group *eventually* will start doing stuff under your name, and it dilutes from there, because there's no one above them anymore, you won't be around to enforce anything

    Slightly off topic, but got reminded of this

    Last edited by Mashika; 24th October 2020 at 03:55.

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    I would probably get corrupted anyways, not by other's but by myself and from within. Because i would be in the need to make sure nothing goes out of order and everyone has the same chances and has a happy life, which would be impossible at some point, eventually. At that point i would get angry and enforce rules, which would be unfair to some and fair to others, and then that would be my demise

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    In a very high level way I somewhat addressed this in my second "task list" so to speak, on my previous post. I didn't get into any details, but I did indicate that it would be a multi-generational endeavour of changing human overall mindset to understand that closed loop systems are the only viable and sustainable systems long term. This is demonstrable, but it would take time to educate people.

    The concept of ownership would also have to shift, this along with my former point need to be educated into the masses first so they can be willing participants. It is not remotely impossible for any culture to not see ownership in the way western people do - not because western view is more logical, but because it is less so. So this concept is also demonstrable and is a key point in moving from the current unsustainable mindset and systems to ones that we require for both survival, and coming even remotely close to our collective potential.

    My first point was to release all the secrets of the world - from religious (vatican) to private corporations, to archeology, spirituality, military etc. I'm the ruler so I can do that and the masses would actually want to know. This would create a more level playing field of knowledge and allow us to work together more objectively to begin on my above points. The release of all the 'secrets' would be a bit messy, as I indicated, but it would be a "git'r'done" and cleanup afterward situation.

    Addressing the open loop and rivalrous dynamic systems would require a more level playing field to properly address and the above would be that catalyst. Once you address these systems and ways of thought through demonstrable benefit for all, the vast majority will have renewed vigor for creating the new closed loop systems of the future. Open loop systems, that currently run all systems on this planet, can be easily demonstrated as not the most productive or lucrative, in the current climate of humanity wanting a better world. Therefore even the most capitalist mind will have interest. Once closed loop system implementation and the demonstrated advantage to them is properly realized, motivation can be easily given to corporations to work in these areas (efficiencies to be gained), and from there almost all the major problems of humanity are addressed, because those problems are almost all entirely a result of humanity using 'end game' zero sum dynamics in all their endeavours. It will require an augmentation of capitalism but it can be done without massive upheaval.

    So the transition, what happens if we do, what happens if we don't, the logical layings out, the request for everyone's insight and participation, etc. will have to first be brought to and educated to a critical mass, then the work can begin in earnest - this is why it will likely be a multi generational effort ... but it looks doable.

    And then from there ... whatever we want to collectively focus on ....
    But how? Whoever is in charge of cleaning up the mess, and figuring out how to change the people's minds, would be at the top of a new power structure again

    I suspect it would just loop into a new religion of sorts, where people are just following and have great respect for the new leaders, then it starts all over again
    No -- the premise is that you a an un-corruptable ruler. It doesn't say that you lose that authority anywhere. Although without that ability, I do see your point.

    Edit: Let me explain more .... The goal is to bring the understanding to people enough that you educate over generations to realize the benefits of closed loop non-rivalrous dynamics, so that they are seen as superior (which they are when you are facing the self-termination of open loop dynamic systems - which we currently are) . If you can accomplish this over several generation of your "rule", then the environment will have entirely changed from that of how we see it today.

    From there, excess greed will be seen and function as something of only the most weak - not the most powerful ... etc.

    From there you can shift the attention of the human collective to grand collective projects.

    It just needs to be properly demonstrated.
    Well you are un-corruptable, but are the other people around you? You can't be everywhere at all times, so you have to delegate, the delegates report back, if you want to make sure they are telling you the truth, you need another set of people who will check on them...
    ....
    ...
    Unfortunately I cannot see the image you posted.


    But to the the discussion ...

    That is why the system change needs to be more bottom up than top down. In a society that functions within much more transparent systems (task list one on my OP), corruption becomes much more difficult to the point where it is unsustainable, at which time it will be something avoided, and not schemed. If you release the worlds secrets, create open and transparent systems while simultaneously educating the masses of the supiority of non-rivalrous dynamics, over rivalrous dynamics, things like corruption will become both not worth the risk nor worth the reward. but it would require both those elements - the "leveling of the playing field" as I put it in my OP, and the re-education of optimal dynamic systems to operate in. As I stated, I am confident that these systems are demonstrably superior, and therefore will become the desire of the masses if properly relayed to them.

    So one would require the "shock and awe" of item one, to transition more smoothly into item two on my OP list. By the time item two was complete, corruption would be seen as an undesirable, and in that environment, it more or less would be an actuality. Therefore a self correcting problem, given the changed environment.

    As I said this would have to be a multi-generational endeavour. If I were to die of old age, I would need to pass the project down to one who also had the qualities of un-corruptable and fully benevolent.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 24th October 2020 at 04:10.
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    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    In a very high level way I somewhat addressed this in my second "task list" so to speak, on my previous post. I didn't get into any details, but I did indicate that it would be a multi-generational endeavour of changing human overall mindset to understand that closed loop systems are the only viable and sustainable systems long term. This is demonstrable, but it would take time to educate people.

    The concept of ownership would also have to shift, this along with my former point need to be educated into the masses first so they can be willing participants. It is not remotely impossible for any culture to not see ownership in the way western people do - not because western view is more logical, but because it is less so. So this concept is also demonstrable and is a key point in moving from the current unsustainable mindset and systems to ones that we require for both survival, and coming even remotely close to our collective potential.

    My first point was to release all the secrets of the world - from religious (vatican) to private corporations, to archeology, spirituality, military etc. I'm the ruler so I can do that and the masses would actually want to know. This would create a more level playing field of knowledge and allow us to work together more objectively to begin on my above points. The release of all the 'secrets' would be a bit messy, as I indicated, but it would be a "git'r'done" and cleanup afterward situation.

    Addressing the open loop and rivalrous dynamic systems would require a more level playing field to properly address and the above would be that catalyst. Once you address these systems and ways of thought through demonstrable benefit for all, the vast majority will have renewed vigor for creating the new closed loop systems of the future. Open loop systems, that currently run all systems on this planet, can be easily demonstrated as not the most productive or lucrative, in the current climate of humanity wanting a better world. Therefore even the most capitalist mind will have interest. Once closed loop system implementation and the demonstrated advantage to them is properly realized, motivation can be easily given to corporations to work in these areas (efficiencies to be gained), and from there almost all the major problems of humanity are addressed, because those problems are almost all entirely a result of humanity using 'end game' zero sum dynamics in all their endeavours. It will require an augmentation of capitalism but it can be done without massive upheaval.

    So the transition, what happens if we do, what happens if we don't, the logical layings out, the request for everyone's insight and participation, etc. will have to first be brought to and educated to a critical mass, then the work can begin in earnest - this is why it will likely be a multi generational effort ... but it looks doable.

    And then from there ... whatever we want to collectively focus on ....
    But how? Whoever is in charge of cleaning up the mess, and figuring out how to change the people's minds, would be at the top of a new power structure again

    I suspect it would just loop into a new religion of sorts, where people are just following and have great respect for the new leaders, then it starts all over again
    No -- the premise is that you a an un-corruptable ruler. It doesn't say that you lose that authority anywhere. Although without that ability, I do see your point.

    Edit: Let me explain more .... The goal is to bring the understanding to people enough that you educate over generations to realize the benefits of closed loop non-rivalrous dynamics, so that they are seen as superior (which they are when you are facing the self-termination of open loop dynamic systems - which we currently are) . If you can accomplish this over several generation of your "rule", then the environment will have entirely changed from that of how we see it today.

    From there, excess greed will be seen and function as something of only the most weak - not the most powerful ... etc.

    From there you can shift the attention of the human collective to grand collective projects.

    It just needs to be properly demonstrated.
    Well you are un-corruptable, but are the other people around you? You can't be everywhere at all times, so you have to delegate, the delegates report back, if you want to make sure they are telling you the truth, you need another set of people who will check on them...
    ....
    ...
    Unfortunately I cannot see the image you posted.


    But to the the discussion ...

    That is why the system change needs to be more bottom up than top down. In a society that functions within much more transparent systems (task list one on my OP), corruption becomes much more difficult to the point where it is unsustainable, at which time it will be something avoided, and not schemed. If you release the worlds secrets, create open and transparent systems while simultaneously educating the masses of the supiority of non-rivalrous dynamics, over rivalrous dynamics, things like corruption will become both not worth the risk nor worth the reward. but it would require both those elements - the "leveling of the playing field" as I put it in my OP, and the re-education of optimal dynamic systems to operate in.

    So one would require the "shock and awe" of item one, to transition more smoothly into item to on my OP list. By the time item two was complete, corruption would be seen as an undesirable, and in that environment, it more or less would be an actuality. Therefore a self correcting problem, given the changed environment.

    As I said this would have to be a multi-generational endeavour. If I were to die of old age, I would need to pass the project down to one who also had the qualities of un-corruptable and fully benevolent.
    There was a time on earth, when no one knew how to control fire, then one person found out, he had power and control over it. The other people thought of him as someone special

    Then he gave the power and knowledge of fire to the other people

    Up to these days, the person who has the "fire" inside, is a leader, top level human, bright and strong, powerful, etc

    "You are on fire!"

    Primal motivation goes way beyond education, i remember these words from a teacher way back. You can't control that when you are 14 you will decide on your own that your grand parent is wrong in some things, or your dad or mom, and you will grow your own ideals and concepts internal so no one knows, for years maybe, then once you are "free" you will implement them on your life, and the life of people around you that you can influence

    That's not about education, but natural human nature

    If you try to remove this from people, then you are programming them, at which point you may already be creating a cult of sorts around your own ideas on how the world must be. It's a dangerous road, i'm not saying you are wrong, but what i'm saying is that you may not be in full control of this once other people take over, and it can lead into very bad things in the future, or a reset and repeat scenario that ends up taking human kind a thousand years back in progress. It's not possible to know what the road could lead into, in the end
    Last edited by Mashika; 24th October 2020 at 04:16.

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by syrwong (here)
    To build an egalitarian world, step by step. First step must be to minimize the evil of money. A good start will be to achieve income equality gradually by stipulating the maximum income allowed should be equal to say, five times the minimum income. Excess income if any goes to the state. I do not believe however able, however intelligent, or "important" an individual, he or she deserves a much greater income than any other person.
    Welcome to the USSR, Tovarishch Syrwong. Your apartment awaits you on street 45, building 5, floor 7, apartment 3. The water is limited from 9 to 5, no lights on after 10 pm

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    In a very high level way I somewhat addressed this in my second "task list" so to speak, on my previous post. I didn't get into any details, but I did indicate that it would be a multi-generational endeavour of changing human overall mindset to understand that closed loop systems are the only viable and sustainable systems long term. This is demonstrable, but it would take time to educate people.

    The concept of ownership would also have to shift, this along with my former point need to be educated into the masses first so they can be willing participants. It is not remotely impossible for any culture to not see ownership in the way western people do - not because western view is more logical, but because it is less so. So this concept is also demonstrable and is a key point in moving from the current unsustainable mindset and systems to ones that we require for both survival, and coming even remotely close to our collective potential.

    My first point was to release all the secrets of the world - from religious (vatican) to private corporations, to archeology, spirituality, military etc. I'm the ruler so I can do that and the masses would actually want to know. This would create a more level playing field of knowledge and allow us to work together more objectively to begin on my above points. The release of all the 'secrets' would be a bit messy, as I indicated, but it would be a "git'r'done" and cleanup afterward situation.

    Addressing the open loop and rivalrous dynamic systems would require a more level playing field to properly address and the above would be that catalyst. Once you address these systems and ways of thought through demonstrable benefit for all, the vast majority will have renewed vigor for creating the new closed loop systems of the future. Open loop systems, that currently run all systems on this planet, can be easily demonstrated as not the most productive or lucrative, in the current climate of humanity wanting a better world. Therefore even the most capitalist mind will have interest. Once closed loop system implementation and the demonstrated advantage to them is properly realized, motivation can be easily given to corporations to work in these areas (efficiencies to be gained), and from there almost all the major problems of humanity are addressed, because those problems are almost all entirely a result of humanity using 'end game' zero sum dynamics in all their endeavours. It will require an augmentation of capitalism but it can be done without massive upheaval.

    So the transition, what happens if we do, what happens if we don't, the logical layings out, the request for everyone's insight and participation, etc. will have to first be brought to and educated to a critical mass, then the work can begin in earnest - this is why it will likely be a multi generational effort ... but it looks doable.

    And then from there ... whatever we want to collectively focus on ....
    But how? Whoever is in charge of cleaning up the mess, and figuring out how to change the people's minds, would be at the top of a new power structure again

    I suspect it would just loop into a new religion of sorts, where people are just following and have great respect for the new leaders, then it starts all over again
    No -- the premise is that you a an un-corruptable ruler. It doesn't say that you lose that authority anywhere. Although without that ability, I do see your point.

    Edit: Let me explain more .... The goal is to bring the understanding to people enough that you educate over generations to realize the benefits of closed loop non-rivalrous dynamics, so that they are seen as superior (which they are when you are facing the self-termination of open loop dynamic systems - which we currently are) . If you can accomplish this over several generation of your "rule", then the environment will have entirely changed from that of how we see it today.

    From there, excess greed will be seen and function as something of only the most weak - not the most powerful ... etc.

    From there you can shift the attention of the human collective to grand collective projects.

    It just needs to be properly demonstrated.
    Well you are un-corruptable, but are the other people around you? You can't be everywhere at all times, so you have to delegate, the delegates report back, if you want to make sure they are telling you the truth, you need another set of people who will check on them...
    ....
    ...
    Unfortunately I cannot see the image you posted.


    But to the the discussion ...

    That is why the system change needs to be more bottom up than top down. In a society that functions within much more transparent systems (task list one on my OP), corruption becomes much more difficult to the point where it is unsustainable, at which time it will be something avoided, and not schemed. If you release the worlds secrets, create open and transparent systems while simultaneously educating the masses of the supiority of non-rivalrous dynamics, over rivalrous dynamics, things like corruption will become both not worth the risk nor worth the reward. but it would require both those elements - the "leveling of the playing field" as I put it in my OP, and the re-education of optimal dynamic systems to operate in.

    So one would require the "shock and awe" of item one, to transition more smoothly into item to on my OP list. By the time item two was complete, corruption would be seen as an undesirable, and in that environment, it more or less would be an actuality. Therefore a self correcting problem, given the changed environment.

    As I said this would have to be a multi-generational endeavour. If I were to die of old age, I would need to pass the project down to one who also had the qualities of un-corruptable and fully benevolent.
    There was a time on earth, when no one knew how to control fire, then one person found out, he had power and control over it. The other people thought of him as someone special

    Then he gave the power and knowledge of fire to the other people

    Up to these days, the person who has the "fire" inside, is a leader, top level human, bright and strong, powerful, etc

    "You are on fire!"

    Primal motivation goes way beyond education, i remember these words from a teacher way back. You can't control that when you are 14 you will decide on your own that your grand parent is wrong in some things, or your dad or mom, and you will grow your own ideals and concepts internal so no one knows, for years maybe, then once you are "free" you will implement them on your life, and the life of people around you that you can influence

    That's not about education, but natural human nature

    If you try to remove this from people, then you are programming them, at which point you may already be creating a cult of sorts around your own ideas on how the world must be. It's a dangerous road, i'm not saying you are wrong, but what i'm saying is that you may not be in full control of this once other people take over, and it can lead into very bad things in the future, or a reset and repeat scenario that ends up taking human kind a thousand years back in progress. It's not possible to know what the road could lead into, in the end
    Corruption is not a primal part of human nature - it is a result of observing (thus learning) or thinking in rivalrous dynamics terms and then believing it contains an advantage, and forming decisions around that belief - it in itself is just a belief system.

    Desiring the greatest output for the least input might be a primal part of human nature. That is why you only need to demonstrate a new type of "fire" - one that is both non-rivalrous, and a greater advantage to both the individual and collective alike, and the desire for a greater output vs lesser input can be tapped.

    As I pointed to earlier in a post, the transformation would be like caterpillar to butterfly. No butterfly desires to return to a caterpillar state once they realize that they are actually a butterfly and not a caterpillar.

    But that is why educational reform and not dictatorship is needed -- because the way of being I propose is demonstrably superior (in the way I see it), it would only need to be presented (through education) to be realized.. I would hire the greatest minds and corporations to work on the problem of creating the system that gets us from here to there without top down dynamics, but rather encourage bottom up. Humans are in a ripe position to want strongly enough ha change on the systems that have not and are not working for us.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 24th October 2020 at 05:01.
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  21. Link to Post #33
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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    In a very high level way I somewhat addressed this in my second "task list" so to speak, on my previous post. I didn't get into any details, but I did indicate that it would be a multi-generational endeavour of changing human overall mindset to understand that closed loop systems are the only viable and sustainable systems long term. This is demonstrable, but it would take time to educate people.

    The concept of ownership would also have to shift, this along with my former point need to be educated into the masses first so they can be willing participants. It is not remotely impossible for any culture to not see ownership in the way western people do - not because western view is more logical, but because it is less so. So this concept is also demonstrable and is a key point in moving from the current unsustainable mindset and systems to ones that we require for both survival, and coming even remotely close to our collective potential.

    My first point was to release all the secrets of the world - from religious (vatican) to private corporations, to archeology, spirituality, military etc. I'm the ruler so I can do that and the masses would actually want to know. This would create a more level playing field of knowledge and allow us to work together more objectively to begin on my above points. The release of all the 'secrets' would be a bit messy, as I indicated, but it would be a "git'r'done" and cleanup afterward situation.

    Addressing the open loop and rivalrous dynamic systems would require a more level playing field to properly address and the above would be that catalyst. Once you address these systems and ways of thought through demonstrable benefit for all, the vast majority will have renewed vigor for creating the new closed loop systems of the future. Open loop systems, that currently run all systems on this planet, can be easily demonstrated as not the most productive or lucrative, in the current climate of humanity wanting a better world. Therefore even the most capitalist mind will have interest. Once closed loop system implementation and the demonstrated advantage to them is properly realized, motivation can be easily given to corporations to work in these areas (efficiencies to be gained), and from there almost all the major problems of humanity are addressed, because those problems are almost all entirely a result of humanity using 'end game' zero sum dynamics in all their endeavours. It will require an augmentation of capitalism but it can be done without massive upheaval.

    So the transition, what happens if we do, what happens if we don't, the logical layings out, the request for everyone's insight and participation, etc. will have to first be brought to and educated to a critical mass, then the work can begin in earnest - this is why it will likely be a multi generational effort ... but it looks doable.

    And then from there ... whatever we want to collectively focus on ....
    But how? Whoever is in charge of cleaning up the mess, and figuring out how to change the people's minds, would be at the top of a new power structure again

    I suspect it would just loop into a new religion of sorts, where people are just following and have great respect for the new leaders, then it starts all over again
    No -- the premise is that you a an un-corruptable ruler. It doesn't say that you lose that authority anywhere. Although without that ability, I do see your point.

    Edit: Let me explain more .... The goal is to bring the understanding to people enough that you educate over generations to realize the benefits of closed loop non-rivalrous dynamics, so that they are seen as superior (which they are when you are facing the self-termination of open loop dynamic systems - which we currently are) . If you can accomplish this over several generation of your "rule", then the environment will have entirely changed from that of how we see it today.

    From there, excess greed will be seen and function as something of only the most weak - not the most powerful ... etc.

    From there you can shift the attention of the human collective to grand collective projects.

    It just needs to be properly demonstrated.
    Well you are un-corruptable, but are the other people around you? You can't be everywhere at all times, so you have to delegate, the delegates report back, if you want to make sure they are telling you the truth, you need another set of people who will check on them...
    ....
    ...
    Unfortunately I cannot see the image you posted.


    But to the the discussion ...

    That is why the system change needs to be more bottom up than top down. In a society that functions within much more transparent systems (task list one on my OP), corruption becomes much more difficult to the point where it is unsustainable, at which time it will be something avoided, and not schemed. If you release the worlds secrets, create open and transparent systems while simultaneously educating the masses of the supiority of non-rivalrous dynamics, over rivalrous dynamics, things like corruption will become both not worth the risk nor worth the reward. but it would require both those elements - the "leveling of the playing field" as I put it in my OP, and the re-education of optimal dynamic systems to operate in.

    So one would require the "shock and awe" of item one, to transition more smoothly into item to on my OP list. By the time item two was complete, corruption would be seen as an undesirable, and in that environment, it more or less would be an actuality. Therefore a self correcting problem, given the changed environment.

    As I said this would have to be a multi-generational endeavour. If I were to die of old age, I would need to pass the project down to one who also had the qualities of un-corruptable and fully benevolent.
    There was a time on earth, when no one knew how to control fire, then one person found out, he had power and control over it. The other people thought of him as someone special

    Then he gave the power and knowledge of fire to the other people

    Up to these days, the person who has the "fire" inside, is a leader, top level human, bright and strong, powerful, etc

    "You are on fire!"

    Primal motivation goes way beyond education, i remember these words from a teacher way back. You can't control that when you are 14 you will decide on your own that your grand parent is wrong in some things, or your dad or mom, and you will grow your own ideals and concepts internal so no one knows, for years maybe, then once you are "free" you will implement them on your life, and the life of people around you that you can influence

    That's not about education, but natural human nature

    If you try to remove this from people, then you are programming them, at which point you may already be creating a cult of sorts around your own ideas on how the world must be. It's a dangerous road, i'm not saying you are wrong, but what i'm saying is that you may not be in full control of this once other people take over, and it can lead into very bad things in the future, or a reset and repeat scenario that ends up taking human kind a thousand years back in progress. It's not possible to know what the road could lead into, in the end
    Corruption is not a primal part of human nature - it is a result of observing (thus learning) or thinking in rivalrous dynamics terms and believing it contains an advantage.

    Desiring the greatest output for the least input might be a primal part of human nature. That is why you only need to demonstrate a new type of "fire" - one that is both non-rivalrous, and a greater advantage to both the individual and collective alike, and the desire for a greater output vs lesser input can be tapped.

    As I mentioned earlier in a post, the transformation would be like caterpillar to butterfly. No butterfly desires to return to a caterpillar state once they realize that they are actually a butterfly and not a caterpillar.

    But that is why educational reform and not dictatorship is needed. I would hire the greatest minds and corporations to work on the problem of creating the system that gets us from here to there without top down dynamics, but rather encourage bottom up. Humans are in a ripe position to want strongly enough ha change on the systems that have not and are not working for us.
    You would have to erase all the entirety of human history for that to happen, but also, you would be the carrier of the "virus" from one generation to the new ones, along with other people who would begin the new process

    But then again, you are enforcing your own world view, which may or may not be correct in the end, but you have turned the entire world into a world that fits your views

    That you are incorruptible doesn't mean you had full wisdom

    If you look into Mr Bill's post
    Quote If you ruled the world — and were a totally incorruptible, benevolent dictator — what would you do??
    Never once he said anything about wisdom, or knowledge, or pure thoughts, or even wanting the best for the world

    Hitler and Stalin, Lenin and others were probably incorruptible, and many people before them, they also were benevolent, but only to the people they liked, and they were dictators also :D

    If you are a dictator, you need to enforce your views across the world, therefore, a power structure based on your ideals will be created, one that won't care about any other view but yours
    Last edited by Mashika; 24th October 2020 at 08:43.

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    If you ruled the world — and were a totally incorruptible, benevolent dictator — what would you do??
    I would create a drug that puts a temporary hold on human conception and make everyone in the world take it.
    Then I would give every person a series of psychological tests.
    Only those who proved that they had a conscience (not a psychopath, sociopath or narcissist)
    and those who also had an IQ above 100
    Would be given an antidote, and allowed to reproduce.
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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by Antagenet (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    If you ruled the world — and were a totally incorruptible, benevolent dictator — what would you do??
    I would create a drug that puts a temporary hold on human conception and make everyone in the world take it.
    Then I would give every person a series of psychological tests.
    Only those who proved that they had a conscience (not a psychopath, sociopath or narcissist)
    and those who also had an IQ above 100
    Would be given an antidote, and allowed to reproduce.
    What if you were the first one to take the test, and found that you fall under that second targeted group? What would happen then?

    The implications of ruling while not fit

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Sounds a bit like a one world communist government ... not that they aren't good practices to put into place - they are all good. I suppose being un-corruptable and benevolent as per the OP would be an important aspect in getting such policies implemented without creating massive civil wars in the process.

    Such a tricky thing it is, to go from where we are, to where we want to be. It will require a transformation of some sort - like caterpillar to butterfly.
    Well yeah, you are right. But tbh, communism had some good ideas: most - if not all - are not just realistic with our intelligence and wisdom. We have too big lust for serotonin and dopamin which basically are the main drivers of capitalism: to have always more and rise in the status ladder. Some few are able to break free from these addictions temporarly, but as they are chemical reactions, it is impossible to be forever and totally free. They just feel too good.

    So indeed: we would need some sort of leap in both biological and spiritual evolution before those 10 things would be possible to work.

    I.e. We are pretty much screwed. :/
    Ps. I use Avalon with mobile -> sorry about the typos

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Arak (here)
    Just random 10 things that came to my mind:
    1st thing: limit number of allowed children per person to one. Lets just face it: the biggest problem of all is that there are just too many of us in this planet.
    2nd: limit personal wealth per person to 10 million dollars. That should be more than enough for anybody. All above that would be funneled into medical and natural sciences & research.
    3rd: ban wars. Like totally. Issues should be solved by negotiation.
    4th: mandatory daily meditation of 30 minutes or more for all older than 5 years old.
    5th: ban eating meat that one has not hunted / fished by self.
    6th: ban leisure traveling by flying.
    7th: limit credit / mortgage interests to max 1%
    8th ban all religional doctrines that support racism or discrimination of anykind.
    9th: free healthcare for all people on earth (funding from 2nd)
    10th: limit of max. 100 personal items per person.

    Please understand that this list was not considered too carefully. <3
    Sounds a bit like a one world communist government ... not that they aren't good practices to put into place - they are all good. I suppose being un-corruptable and benevolent as per the OP would be an important aspect in getting such policies implemented without creating massive civil wars in the process.

    Such a tricky thing it is, to go from where we are, to where we want to be. It will require a transformation of some sort - like caterpillar to butterfly.
    Well i think you have a lot of truth here, back on primary school and way back before, we are always told that sharing is important and a good thing to do, only to later in life be told that you are entitled to your own stuff and you don't have/need to share to anyone else (capitalism) therefore if you have 100 billion dollars, it's what you earned yourself (or the people working below you did for you) but you are not enforced to share at all, only if you want/care, and only to the people you want to, so it's like "sharing is not that important anymore once it's not about toys at school"

    I don't even know what's happening anymore

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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    I'm not sure how I'd go about installing peace and harmony upon this land if I was the Boss, but I do know this much.......

    I'd de-criminalise and regulate all drugs and educate, educate, educate about them, installing as much importance as maths and language into the school curriculum about them.

    ------------------------ WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? ------------------------------------------

    Are our post's now being edited without an explanation or notice?

    The above is only half of what I wrote??
    Last edited by The Moss Trooper; 24th October 2020 at 12:51.
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  33. Link to Post #39
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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    No one has addressed (or really come to terms with) the use of force necessary in the welding of absolute power. You might be benevolent, but inevitably individuals and groups would organize quickly to challenge your hold on power. The game of power and the mechanisms of organizing people and society eventually come up against the problem of what to do with those who have no qualms about using violence. The power game played with others is a dangerous one!
    Well, as they say: "The meek shall inherit the Earth..." which prompted Greg Hallett to dig into what the definition of "meek" actually is and stated as follows:
    “Having the resources to fight, being trained to fight and ready to fight, but not fighting”
    Where I would refine the "not fighting" into "not attacking but ready to defend." which is a rule that's circumvented by "false flags." That would yield something like:
    “Having the resources to fight, being trained and ready to fight but only in defense, never as an aggressor.”
    ... martial arts kind of rules...

    Interestingly enough, Kim Goguen started a similar project as this thread in asking the different "Assemblies" for ideas that the restoration of "Life force" couldn't do without and project into the future the consequences of implementing such ideas. That's also pretty similar to the native elders asking their peers to consider their potential current decisions down to seven generations in the future to decide whether it's beneficial to everyone or not.

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  35. Link to Post #40
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    Default Re: If You Ruled the World....

    Quote Posted by The Moss Trooper (here)
    I'm not sure how I'd go about installing peace and harmony upon this land if I was the Boss, but I do know this much.......

    I'd de-criminalise and regulate all drugs and educate, educate, educate about them, installing as much importance as maths and language into the school curriculum about them.

    ------------------------ WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? ------------------------------------------

    Are our post's now being edited without an explanation or notice?

    The above is only half of what I wrote??
    Nothing nefarious going on here.

    I did explain in the reason for edit at the bottom of your post, but perhaps you missed it. Anyway, here's what happened: I deleted Plissken Boon's post that you had quoted, because it was rude, and then took it out of your post as well, thinking what you were expressing could stand well enough on it's own without it.

    That's it, that's all that happened, hopefully this clears it up once and for all.
    If you trust your government
    You don't know history

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gracy May For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (24th October 2020), Billy (24th October 2020)

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