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Thread: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

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    United States Avalon Member Strat's Avatar
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    Default Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    I consider myself skeptical (not a debunker) of a lot that is talked about on Avalon. I know there's others out there like myself. I'm really curious what led you folks here. Surely there's a little nugget you have that you're sitting on otherwise you wouldn't be here at all.

    As I've brought up a hundred times before, my childhood dreams brought me here. I was having repetitive dreams of greys more or less since I was born, till I was about 10 years old. In hindsight the dreams were moreso creepy than scary; there were 3 of them

    1.) The most common dream I had was of a stereotypical grey sitting on my window, staring at me and I stared right back at him. I was transfixed and terrified. I didn't 'stare right back at him' out of grit or resistance or whatever. I was just reacting, I was just a boy. It was scary at the time but in hindsight it was just creepy and weird that I spent so many nights and so much time like that.

    2.) I had another repetitive dream that lasted half a second. I would be in my hallway walking into my room, I would see a pair of eyes and then that's it - dream over. The process of being in the hallway and walking to my room would take a few seconds and those seconds were uncomfortable. I can remember the compulsion to walk in my room even though I didn't want to.

    3.) I can honestly only remember one instance of this particular dream. I know it happened several times because I remember constantly complaining to my mother about it. I don't remember much, I just remember standing at the doorway to my room, and unexpectedly seeing 3 folks there. I want to scream and run but when I see the eyes I can't move or yell. When I look them in the eyes I am paralyzed. It's very similar to the 2 dreams above. I suppose the main difference is in this memory I'm standing at the doorway of my room and they move towards me.

    ---------------------

    So that's why I'm here: Before the internet was popular I had these experiences. I saw greys before I read about them. This is my little section of the woo. It ****s with me in my daily life, it's a longer story, PM me for details if you're curious it's not so woo but a bit ****ty.

    So anyway I wanna know: You call BS, but what's the one thing you're chasing? Where are you digging for answers?
    That's life, and I can't deny it
    Many times I thought of cuttin' out but my heart won't buy it

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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Quote I consider myself skeptical (not a debunker) of a lot that is talked about on Avalon. I know there's others out there like myself. I'm really curious what led you folks here. Surely there's a little nugget you have that you're sitting on otherwise you wouldn't be here at all.
    Contradictory terms are contradictory :D

    When you joined Avalon, i was like 12/13 or so, i just want to think how this far you thought about this, in all that time

    Quote Surely there's a little nugget you have that you're sitting on otherwise you wouldn't be here at all

    het!

    There is no reason for that, every person must able to be aware of their own. No reason to apply their reason to anyone else in this planet, ever

    Must have applied your own knowledge without thinking "some other people must think, but not be aware" Stop that
    Last edited by Mashika; 28th October 2020 at 08:42.

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    UK Avalon Member Mike Gorman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    A very interesting post Strat (do you like Fender Stratocaster guitars?) I cannot claim any special experience, rather a string of impressions dating back to my first tangible memory: Myself as a fully grown man lying in a hospital bed a white tiled room with an amber light, a kind, bearded man leaning over me, comforting me and I know I was passing over to another life. This original 'memory' gave way to being aware of the 'otherness' of life, a general comprehension that this reality we are presented with is not the full scope. I have always been an explorer of ideas, I have witnessed some aerial phenomena but I do not claim to know what these are.
    Project Camelot bowled me over: the realisation that there are others in the world who know about 'black projects' and alternative explanations, who investigate visitation. When Bill set up Avalon I was a very willing subscriber.
    Archeology, and the history of this planet compel me to study, and discover.
    I feel like Jung, who replied he did not have to believe in God, he knew I know there are other civilisations, I know there is much more to this universe and to human life than we are presented with by mainstream culture: hence my being here.
    [/I]

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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    A very interesting post Strat (do you like Fender Stratocaster guitars?) I cannot claim any special experience, rather a string of impressions dating back to my first tangible memory: Myself as a fully grown man lying in a hospital bed a white tiled room with an amber light, a kind, bearded man leaning over me, comforting me and I know I was passing over to another life. This original 'memory' gave way to being aware of the 'otherness' of life, a general comprehension that this reality we are presented with is not the full scope. I have always been an explorer of ideas, I have witnessed some aerial phenomena but I do not claim to know what these are.
    Project Camelot bowled me over: the realisation that there are others in the world who know about 'black projects' and alternative explanations, who investigate visitation. When Bill set up Avalon I was a very willing subscriber.
    Archeology, and the history of this planet compel me to study, and discover.
    I feel like Jung, who replied he did not have to believe in God, he knew I know there are other civilisations, I know there is much more to this universe and to human life than we are presented with by mainstream culture: hence my being here.
    [/I]


    Stratocaster was born out of this sound

    So "They say"

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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    What a good question Strat 🙏 From what I’ve witnessed in today’s so called modern cultures is skepticism turning to some kind of creed or manifesto for so many people,
    practised by them almost religiously.

    In schools and academic institutions people who claim to be even religious believers are often demoted or suspended from certain posts on behalf of their possible “religious bias”.
    If they insert the one question like “did you have any paranormal , spiritual or extraterrestrial contact experiences” in your life or say, previous 2 years, I know of some employers who would reconsider hiring you as scientist.

    Despite so much information shared out there on the internet, it rather seems to me that spiritual people and those on the path of self-research are in utter minority compared to mass programming of society through the digital word,
    taking the rest of their freedoms away (after giving them “so much”)
    and it all frightens the ghost out of me.. bad reminder of the previous , communist era we have also witnessed.

    Truth shall prevail regardless.


    Why don’t you prefer to talk to other believers and experiences instead ?

    I’ve had life of very subtle experiences and information exchange, you may say even co-think with some benevolent and very advanced ET intelligences and no I don’t think they fall to the category of “typical greys” , with few exceptions perhaps.

    But I had life to life meetings with ETs of other origin ( curious and various it seems to me, can’t all be one group ) that felt intimidating or threatening , energetically even though those entities mostly spoke truth or had some kind of message.

    In this human life I’ve always considered all beings my friends 🙏 whether they are human, non human , animal or a spirit. If they choose or insist or not being friends it’s their own choice of course ( or time to bow out).
    I always look forward to beings coming from Space and going home too 🙄


    Sometimes, I try to phone them in any manner.

    Of course I disagree with any experimentation done on humans by any of them ( other than for scientific or research purposes ). Just joking.

    The truly advanced and benevolent intelligences do not do that, it would never occur to me or them to do that, not even in flip of nanosecond as they don’t need to do that or use invasive or hurtful technologies or primitive, dirty medicine in such manner or use a civilisation as a host to their objectives.

    But there is a problem we have with those people in Space:

    A/They often do not respond to any requests or pleas for remediment of their hurtful manners

    B/If they respond on being provoked or evoked they respond in rude or disturbing manner ( people have been suffering psychotic and very traumatic kind of episodes when attacked mentally by one of those creatures)

    C/They only deal gently or respond in fine manner when they actually need something for themselves and it’s always a trick ( no matter how many times we jump for it they better invent a new one)

    They can appear in many forms and formats including disguising themselves as particular human being, probably even animal.
    That said they have many ways of approach.


    Ultimately one day you simply tell them to get out of your life forever. Good shamans or priests can do that but it’s more powerful and the safest to do it on your own.

    In the mean time perhaps you want to imagine some more beautiful and intelligent beings out there who would be inspiring and worthy to talk to ...



    Sorry for brief message right now but there’s lots of space for sharing here I feel and this forum is rare.

    🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
    Last edited by Agape; 28th October 2020 at 10:27.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    I joined the original Avalon for the spiritual section.
    Mudra was and is a great influence, no longer here.
    Im not really sceptical -- one mans truth another mans fantasy.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Agreed with Agape above. Skepticism mixed with sarcasm/cynism is a kind of religion for modern human beings. That's what I value Avalon. There are open minds here, ready to question, inquire, research, learn and tell their experiences/thoughts without being too preachy.

    There are many many subjects you cannot talk with cynic-skeptic human beings - because for most of them this manner is a protective armour around their child-like awareness or heavily traumatised self. Nothing to see, nothing to share there. At least for me.

    So, here we are on Avalon!

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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I joined the original Avalon for the spiritual section.
    Mudra was and is a great influence, no longer here.
    Im not really sceptical -- one mans truth another mans fantasy.
    Chris
    I believe that this could be translated to "perception creates each one's reality, there is no unique world, there's as many worlds as there are people"
    Last edited by Mashika; 28th October 2020 at 23:50.

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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    It's not anything that's happened to me in the past that brought me here, it's more the possibilities of things to come that tell me it's important to be here now...

    Avalon's one of the few public spaces where I can explore & learn about 'contraband' ideas & experiences, and thus get closer to understanding the true nature of our universe, which is my birthright as a human being. I don't accept the artificial limits imposed by wider society (and it's controllers) on this quest, as these are plainly imposed to control human behavior for the benefit of a pretty nasty minority. Avalon gives me the space & support to explore our shared 'consensus reality' (if you believe in such a thing, which I do), and beyond, without fear or limitation...

    For me our next big step towards species maturity, is open contact with another alien race...and I expect to watch that unfolding truthfully, in real time on Avalon, and not as a controlled & filtered happening on the MSM googlebox. Nothing should distract from the truth of this moment, and Avalon has one of the best seats in the house for when it arrives...

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    I came to Avalon because I followed the Camelot videos Bill and Kerry made over the years. The thing that got me to watch the videos was that I was amazed there were people who took the conspiracy I always was convinced of to places I would never have dared think possible or credible.

    It opened my eyes to the fact that not only were there others who seriously considered a wide ranging world-wide conspiracy was actually happening, but that I had been thinking way too small myself as to its scope. It fascinated me then and it still fascinates me now.

    The other thing is that by opening my eyes to the scope of the conspiracy I was able to free parts of my thinking that had been seized by the official narrative without me being conscious of it. But since other areas of my mind were already clear of the mind virus, the exposure to high level truth allowed more of my thinking to overcome its influence. It's a work in progress...

    Avalon freed my mind!
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    Romania Avalon Member EFO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    I consider myself skeptical (not a debunker) of a lot that is talked about on Avalon. I know there's others out there like myself. I'm really curious what led you folks here. Surely there's a little nugget you have that you're sitting on otherwise you wouldn't be here at all.

    As I've brought up a hundred times before, my childhood dreams brought me here. I was having repetitive dreams of greys more or less since I was born, till I was about 10 years old. In hindsight the dreams were moreso creepy than scary; there were 3 of them

    1.) The most common dream I had was of a stereotypical grey sitting on my window, staring at me and I stared right back at him. I was transfixed and terrified. I didn't 'stare right back at him' out of grit or resistance or whatever. I was just reacting, I was just a boy. It was scary at the time but in hindsight it was just creepy and weird that I spent so many nights and so much time like that.

    2.) I had another repetitive dream that lasted half a second. I would be in my hallway walking into my room, I would see a pair of eyes and then that's it - dream over. The process of being in the hallway and walking to my room would take a few seconds and those seconds were uncomfortable. I can remember the compulsion to walk in my room even though I didn't want to.

    3.) I can honestly only remember one instance of this particular dream. I know it happened several times because I remember constantly complaining to my mother about it. I don't remember much, I just remember standing at the doorway to my room, and unexpectedly seeing 3 folks there. I want to scream and run but when I see the eyes I can't move or yell. When I look them in the eyes I am paralyzed. It's very similar to the 2 dreams above. I suppose the main difference is in this memory I'm standing at the doorway of my room and they move towards me.

    ---------------------

    So that's why I'm here: Before the internet was popular I had these experiences. I saw greys before I read about them. This is my little section of the woo. It ****s with me in my daily life, it's a longer story, PM me for details if you're curious it's not so woo but a bit ****ty.

    So anyway I wanna know: You call BS, but what's the one thing you're chasing? Where are you digging for answers?
    Very interesting stories of events and I kindly ask you:How sure you are that you "dreamed" instead of being in a certain "state" induced or not?
    "Your planet is forbidden for an open visit - extremely aggressive social environment,despite almost perfect climatic conditions.Almost 4 billion violent deaths for the last 5000 years and about 15000 major military conflicts in the same period."

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    Red face Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    I was looking for answers to a number of strong paranormal events that me and my family were faced with. I found the Camelot site and related the happenings as they occurred.

    I watched all of the videos. Read everything I could.

    So now I continue to comment about my experiences when I see or feel an opportunity to help another person figure out what it is they are asking about.

    In doing so, I still learn much about myself and the funny thing is that that mostly ends up causing me to have more questions - but I can say now that is growth.

    You can never have all of the answers and Avalon is such a great place to find new questions to lead you along your path of growing knowledge experience and of course, more questions.

    This is why I chose the name "patient", because I am and feel I have a lot of patience, and I had the name "patience" at the Camelot site. When I found Avalon, it would not allow me to use the name patience because it said it was already in use. Without questioning whether this was an overlap from the Camelot site, I accepted to evolve to being "Patient". It felt right as I found myself a patient of the search for answers to the many questions we are faced with and choose to look for.

    Interestingly, I have recently seen something constant in my life. I am what people refer to when they use an old saying " a jack of all trades, but a master at none."
    I find that to be true about my experinces with ETs, UFOs and the paranormal. I have experiened many things but I do not know the absolute truth about anything.

    I feel that if someone was complete at one thing it would come with the price of missing out on so many other things.

    So I remain Patient as I remain open to new experiences and new ideas.
    Last edited by Patient; 28th October 2020 at 13:36.

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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    I've been sceptical about the "official story" ever since I described a dream I had and my brother got mad at me for telling HIS dream! And my other brother could move a compass needle with his finger. And all of us normally finished other people's sentences. And of course there were the 1960s political assassinations with idiotic official stories. Kind of made me into a sceptic.

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    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    I consider myself skeptical (not a debunker) of a lot that is talked about on Avalon. I know there's others out there like myself. I'm really curious what led you folks here. Surely there's a little nugget you have that you're sitting on otherwise you wouldn't be here at all.

    As I've brought up a hundred times before, my childhood dreams brought me here. I was having repetitive dreams of greys more or less since I was born, till I was about 10 years old. In hindsight the dreams were moreso creepy than scary; there were 3 of them

    1.) The most common dream I had was of a stereotypical grey sitting on my window, staring at me and I stared right back at him. I was transfixed and terrified. I didn't 'stare right back at him' out of grit or resistance or whatever. I was just reacting, I was just a boy. It was scary at the time but in hindsight it was just creepy and weird that I spent so many nights and so much time like that.

    2.) I had another repetitive dream that lasted half a second. I would be in my hallway walking into my room, I would see a pair of eyes and then that's it - dream over. The process of being in the hallway and walking to my room would take a few seconds and those seconds were uncomfortable. I can remember the compulsion to walk in my room even though I didn't want to.

    3.) I can honestly only remember one instance of this particular dream. I know it happened several times because I remember constantly complaining to my mother about it. I don't remember much, I just remember standing at the doorway to my room, and unexpectedly seeing 3 folks there. I want to scream and run but when I see the eyes I can't move or yell. When I look them in the eyes I am paralyzed. It's very similar to the 2 dreams above. I suppose the main difference is in this memory I'm standing at the doorway of my room and they move towards me.

    ---------------------

    So that's why I'm here: Before the internet was popular I had these experiences. I saw greys before I read about them. This is my little section of the woo. It ****s with me in my daily life, it's a longer story, PM me for details if you're curious it's not so woo but a bit ****ty.

    So anyway I wanna know: You call BS, but what's the one thing you're chasing? Where are you digging for answers?
    For what its worth, I have spent the last year or so seeking out various experiencer related groups and anything "exo" or "fringe" and what I have astonishingly found is that the more I engage with folks that see themselves as just "regular folks" the more I am discovering a vast plethora of humanity that has had all sorts of anomalous experiences of this nature.

    It has become incredibly common to find this and the more I do, the more I free myself of some sort of "specialness" issue (which I was prone to experiencing when younger). In addition, by 'cleaning up' in 2012 and then experiencing (for the first time) all sorts of anomalous experiences and psi related experiences for the first time in my life without any entheogens (my favorite was marijuana... which, in my case, caused 'marijuana induced psychosis'), I experienced a shift within which I could only identify after the shift had occurred.

    That shift was - "away from the fear of death as a finality." Only when that shift had been completed, did I begin the work on what I believe is where the real work needs to be done (and I am only speaking for myself) - and that is... at the level of my soul with a defined goal of integration of all my fragments. I feel I have just reached that place where I am actually feeling good about who I am, as a being, in relation to all other beings, all life for that matter. 63 years old and only just arrived at the place I always wanted to be. Just in time to watch the world cave in upon itself (perhaps) - how ironic?

    [ADDED] - Some here may get tired of hearing this, but my participation on this forum since I began in earnest so to do (March 15, 2012) was the single most significant component to my recovery and growth trajectory. It's ok knowing I have far, far further to go... but I can never emphasize how much this particular online forum community made such a key difference.
    Last edited by Chester; 28th October 2020 at 14:17.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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  29. Link to Post #15
    Canada Avalon Member Daughter of Time's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    I've had paranormal experiences all my life... since I was a very young child, some of which were terrifying. I've also had many elating paranormal experiences which gave meaning to my existence on the planet at this point in time. I seem to have fewer these days but they still happen.

    I became acquainted with this site after watching videos of Bill and Kerry during the Camelot days, brought to me by Herve, who used to be a moderator here but now on sabbatical on account of health issues. He encouraged me to join and I am happy I did.

    Here I was able to share some of my most bizarre experiences, without judgment or ridicule. Although there's always been the occasional person who disagreed with my perception of things or thought I had a wild imagination, etc., for the most part, I received much support and advice on how to deal with the unpleasant part of these experiences.

    On account of many things that require my attention these days, I do not visit PA very often any more but I intent to always remain a member and once in a while I check in and if something really catches my interest, then I leave a brief post, like now.

    With love,
    Daughter of time

    PS - I learned much by being here...
    Last edited by Daughter of Time; 28th October 2020 at 15:14. Reason: adding a sentence

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    United States Avalon Member rgray222's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    This is an interesting question Strat, I have often wondered the same thing myself. I was fairly skeptical of things that did not fit into my reality. That said my reality changed overnight.

    I am here because one night I returned home from work and saw an enormous triangular UFO directly over my head at a very low altitude moving at about 15-20 mph. It is a long story but once it moved out of sight I sketched it all out on a yellow legal pad, put down the date and time and a very detailed description. Woke up in the morning with absolutely no recollection of the event. The next day I saw the legal pad on the table and the memory immediately flooded back into my mind. This event forever changed my life.

    I spent years talking about it, wanted to see what other people thought or if others had had a similar experience. I wanted to convince anyone who would listen. I was interviewed on several popular UFO channels and on Coast to Coast with Linda Moulton Howe. I even created my own website to convince people. It took many years to realize that my new reality was interesting and intriguing to most people but it did not fit into their reality. Most people want to believe in UFOs but it is only the people that have had a "real" experience that actually believe, there is a huge difference.

    The bottom line of what I encountered that night was either and a craft with alien occupants or it was the government using alien technology.

    The event changed the trajectory of my life, I immediately became more open to life after death, the power of the human mind and how governments really work. I became intensely aware that we are souls inhabiting a physical body for a very short period of time. I had a real sense of clarity about how the media actually handle important events, it became extremely easy to see when, how and why we are being manipulated by the media. I also became acutely aware that people do not want their reality changed. Not all people but many won't accept the truth under any circumstances.

    While I remain skeptical about certain events I have an open mind about most things. I am now 100% convinced that all the answers we are looking for lie within. Outside validation is nice but not necessary.
    Last edited by rgray222; 28th October 2020 at 18:05.

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    Scotland Avalon Member ByTheNorthernSea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Most people want to believe in UFOs but it is only the people that have had a "real" experience that actually believe, there is a huge difference.
    I'm not sure if this is strictly true; I actually do fully believe, though I've had no kind of direct experience to back this up as such...

    What got me started with this was back in the early 90's reading Timothy Good's 'Above Top Secret: Worldwide UFO Cover-up' when I simply reasoned that if just one of the encounters he relates are true (out of hundreds, many backed up with some kind of evidence), then by definition either aliens exist (most likely), or if they don't then there were things going on out of the public's eye that've been kept quiet which we should know about, and we've been lied to by our governments all this time to keep them secret.

    Nothing I've heard anywhere from anyone has changed my mind on this. In fact exactly the opposite...thanks to Bill & many others over the years I'm even more convinced of their reality now than I was back then...
    Last edited by ByTheNorthernSea; 28th October 2020 at 16:07.

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    “On Pseudo-Skepticism” by Marcello Truzzi
    Founding co-chairman of Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims Of the Paranormal CSICOP

    Over the years, I have decried the misuse of the term “skeptic” when used to refer to all critics of anomaly claims. Alas, the label has been thus misapplied by both proponents and critics of the paranormal. Sometimes users of the term have distinguished between so-called “soft” versus “hard” skeptics, and I in part revived the term “zetetic” because of the term’s misuse. But I now think the problems created go beyond mere terminology and matters need to be set right. Since “skepticism” properly refers to doubt rather than denial — nonbelief rather than belief — critics who take the negative rather than an agnostic position but still call themselves “skeptics” are actually pseudo-skeptics and have, I believed, gained a false advantage by usurping that label.

    In science, the burden of proof falls upon the claimant; and the more extraordinary a claim, the heavier is the burden of proof demanded. The true skeptic takes an agnostic position, one that says the claim is not proved rather than disproved. He asserts that the claimant has not borne the burden of proof and that science must continue to build its cognitive map of reality without incorporating the extraordinary claim as a new “fact.” Since the true skeptic does not assert a claim, he has no burden to prove anything. He just goes on using the established theories of “conventional science” as usual. But if a critic asserts that there is evidence for disproof, that he has a negative hypothesis — saying, for instance, that a seeming psi result was actually due to an artifact — he is making a claim and therefore also has to bear a burden of proof. Sometimes, such negative claims by critics are also quite extraordinary — for example, that a UFO was actually a giant plasma, or that someone in a psi experiment was cued via an abnormal ability to hear a high pitch others with normal ears would fail to notice. In such cases the negative claimant also may have to bear a heavier burden of proof than might normally be expected.




    Critics who assert negative claims, but who mistakenly call themselves “skeptics,” often act as though they have no burden of proof placed on them at all, though such a stance would be appropriate only for the agnostic or true skeptic. A result of this is that many critics seem to feel it is only necessary to present a case for their counter-claims based upon plausibility rather than empirical evidence. Thus, if a subject in a psi experiment can be shown to have had an opportunity to cheat, many critics seem to assume not merely that he probably did cheat, but that he must have, regardless of what may be the complete absence of evidence that he did so cheat and sometimes even ignoring evidence of the subject’s past reputation for honesty. Similarly, improper randomization procedures are sometimes assumed to be the cause of a subject’s high psi scores even though all that has been established is the possibility of such an artifact having been the real cause. Of course, the evidential weight of the experiment is greatly reduced when we discover an opening in the design that would allow an artifact to confound the results. Discovering an opportunity for error should make such experiments less evidential and usually unconvincing. It usually disproves the claim that the experiment was “air tight” against error, but it does not disprove the anomaly claim.

    Showing evidence is unconvincing is not grounds for completely dismissing it. If a critic asserts that the result was due to artifact X, that critic then has the burden of proof to demonstrate that artifact X can and probably did produce such results under such circumstances. Admittedly, in some cases the appeal to mere plausibility that an artifact produced the result may be so great that nearly all would accept the argument; for example, when we learn that someone known to have cheated in the past had an opportunity to cheat in this instance, we might reasonably conclude he probably cheated this time, too. But in far too many instances, the critic who makes a merely plausible argument for an artifact closes the door on future research when proper science demands that his hypothesis of an artifact should also be tested. Alas, most critics seem happy to sit in their armchairs producing post hoc counter-explanations. Whichever side ends up with the true story, science best progresses through laboratory investigations.

    On the other hand, proponents of an anomaly claim who recognize the above fallacy may go too far in the other direction. Some argue, like Lombroso when he defended the mediumship of Palladino, that the presence of wigs does not deny the existence of real hair. All of us must remember science can tell us what is empirically unlikely but not what is empirically impossible. Evidence in science is always a matter of degree and is seldom if ever absolutely conclusive. Some proponents of anomaly claims, like some critics, seen unwilling to consider evidence in probabilistic terms, clinging to any slim loose end as though the critic must disprove all evidence ever put forward for a particular claim. Both critics and proponents need to learn to think of adjudication in science as more like that found in the law courts, imperfect and with varying degrees of proof and evidence. Absolute truth, like absolute justice, is seldom obtainable. We can only do our best to approximate them.

    Marcello Truzzi (1935-2003) was a Professor of Sociology at Eastern Michigan University. This article is reprinted, at the author’s suggestion, from the Zetetic Scholar,#12-13, 1987. In his view this criticism of pseudo-skepticism claiming the authority of science, but actually impeding science, is as relevant as ever.


    Me:

    "Scientific Materialism" ... often an Enhanced Method of Control ... a (corrupted) Reductionistical Tool in the hands of (Psycho)-Technocrats

    🌐 Also a perfect excuse to force almost anything on a society as a whole!
    🌐 Creepy Social Engineering partly with more and more help/assistance from (Quantum) A.I.
    🌐 What is the dark side of ANY form of Authoritarianism in "Science"? (most do not want to go there, afraid to be labelled "conspiracy nut").
    🌐 Often UNCHALLENGED False: "The End Justifies the Means" assumption or strong belief of a morally wrong actions are sometimes (assumed) necessary to achieve (assumed) morally right outcomes; actions can only be considered morally right or wrong by virtue of the morality of the outcome. Using & convincing GOOD people to do bad things for (a.o.) Agenda 2030 "The Great Reset".
    🌐 I highly recommend this Project Avalon Forum Thread: Technocracy's Coup d'Etat Has Arrived!
    🌐 Add millions of (conformist) people having Stockholm Syndrome, Bystander Effect & Confirmation Bias combined and ALL above makes more sense HOW they get away with it.

    ps. vast majority who are part of mainstream deliberately do NOT want to consider nor fully grasp anything what I just shared ... as it stands in the way of their own ("safe space bubble") careers. They rather use labels like: "fringe conspiracy sites" & "crazy crackpot theories" etc. ... thinking they "won" the debate that way ... Which only proves my case how they do it ... It is all PsyWars!

    John Kuhles 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 28th October 2020 at 18:00.
    ~no need2follow anyone only consider to broaden (y)our horizon of possibilities
    ~new: Stop5G.net & FB groups/Stop5G

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  37. Link to Post #19
    United States Avalon Member Strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Contradictory terms are contradictory :D

    When you joined Avalon, i was like 12/13 or so, i just want to think how this far you thought about this, in all that time
    What did you find contradictory? Please explain.

    Regarding the second sentence, if you're asking, I was thinking about these dreams/experiences since they happened, it's always in the back of my head so to speak. Since the late 80s.

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Surely there's a little nugget you have that you're sitting on otherwise you wouldn't be here at all

    het!

    There is no reason for that, every person must able to be aware of their own. No reason to apply their reason to anyone else in this planet, ever

    Must have applied your own knowledge without thinking "some other people must think, but not be aware" Stop that
    Lol, maybe I should've used a question mark rather than a period. Maybe I left out some context. In the future, please ask me to clarify rather than give me orders or assume I'm being an asshole. Honestly, truly, I'm not sure what you're on about but I'll try and explain myself a bit better.

    My line of thought/perspective was that if there is someone who doesn't believe a lot that is openly accepted and talked about on a forum then it would be strange for them to be there. Why not stay to a forum where folks think like you do? I eat meat so I'm not going to join a forum for vegetarians, that would be a waste of my time. So my thought was that the typical person who doubts 90% of what Avalon openly discusses, what's the 10% that they are here for?

    I could understand joining such a forum to test your ideas, but I doubt anyone would stay as long as I have been here and fit in so well.

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    A very interesting post Strat (do you like Fender Stratocaster guitars?)
    Yessir. I'm not exactly a guitar phenom but I have two of them, set up differently. They sound pretty. I like Texas blues a la Stevie Ray Vaughn and other obvious influences like Hendrix etc.

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Why don’t you prefer to talk to other believers and experiences instead ?
    Honestly, not to sound rude, but I quickly get turned off. I don't think there are many people like me who approach strange past experiences from the perspective of "I don't know what that was all about and maybe I never will." It seems to be a very black or white debate. Either it's definitely aliens or it's definitely not. Both parties grab the closest explanation possible and stick to their guns, no matter how outlandish the theory. That's not how scientific observation works. Some things we just don't know/understand and we may never know. I'm okay with that. I feel this is the most intelligent perspective to have.



    I will get to the rest of you folks later. I have a 4 legged furry friend who needs attending to. He had 2 goddamn ticks yesterday when we went on our wilderness adventure.
    That's life, and I can't deny it
    Many times I thought of cuttin' out but my heart won't buy it

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    United States Avalon Member rgray222's Avatar
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    Default Re: Skeptics of Avalon: Why are you here?

    Quote Posted by ByTheNorthernSea (here)
    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Most people want to believe in UFOs but it is only the people that have had a "real" experience that actually believe, there is a huge difference.
    I'm not sure if this is strictly true; I actually do fully believe, though I've had no kind of direct experience to back this up as such...

    What got me started with this was back in the early 90's reading Timothy Good's 'Above Top Secret: Worldwide UFO Cover-up' when I simply reasoned that if just one of the encounters he relates are true (out of hundreds, many backed up with some kind of evidence), then by definition either aliens exist (most likely), or if they don't then there were things going on out of the public's eye that've been kept quiet which we should know about, and we've been lied to by our governments all this time to keep them secret.

    Nothing I've heard anywhere from anyone has changed my mind on this. In fact exactly the opposite...thanks to Bill & many others over the years I'm even more convinced of their reality now than I was back then...
    It is probably fitting that you immediately picked up on that. I debated about taking that sentence out of my post simply because there are those like yourself that really do believe without having a first-hand experience. What prompted me to make the statement in the first place is that there is a very fine distinction between people wanting to believe (in something not just UFOs) and people that actually believe. Once you make the distinction and give it some thought the difference is huge. We have all seen the polls over the years that say 70 or 80% of people believe in UFOs. I would wager to say that the majority of those people "want to believe" not necessarily those that "really believe".
    Thanks for pointing that out.
    R

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