Should Christians support Israeli military action?

[Bill Ryan]

I received a well-written and most intelligent message yesterday from a good friend, whom I very much respect, explaining that they felt obliged to support Israel in their current military campaign, come what may, because they were a Christian.

I won't offer my own personal views on this yet, but I did feel it was a very legitimate topic of discussion.

Besides all the Avalon members here who maintain a truly spiritual worldview, as best as they can every day, I'm aware that we have many members who count themselves as good Christians. Do please share what you may feel about this, whatever your spiritual outlook may be.

[Bruce G Charlton]

"Should Christians support Israeli military action?"

Obviously not! At a basic religious level, there is not the slightest reason why Christians should support either side; and I do not support either side overall.

I judge by motivations, primarily, and my understanding is that both sides motivation is not religious; but is apparently political, also racial; and it is to annihilate the entirely of the other side.

Since I am against empires, I do not think English Christians should intervene.

Of course there is a lesser-of-evils argument as well, but that can never be a duty - since a lesser evil is still evil.

[Lysis]

On the religious level there is no way. From core belief to conflict goals they are at odds with eachother. Everyone is going to view this differently but I personally believe each person's opinion on this is valid.

I personally don't think Christians should be supporting Israel in any way. They have openly bragged about owning the usa and that the usa will do anything Israel demands. Then to blame the holocaust on Arabs and sympathize with Hitler... they should fight their own fight.

If god made all equal why would he elevate one group of people over another. If it is commanded that thou shall not kill then mowing the grass is Satanism. I also find them hard to take serious when their faith is documented on stone at gobekli tepe just like Christian legends and sumerian legends. With Christianity that can at least be traced before its current form.

Before Jesus it was serapis worship and before serapis it was horus and before horus it was ningishzida. Yet if you look at the Hebrew God table you can simply count... 6th from cornerstone is Abram. 6 from Abram is the star of David. 6th seat at the god table is the throne of their messiah.

I know people will argue that but follow the narrative, why is terah a separate branch if he was the father of Abraham whom Abraham burned alive in his home for being an idol maker. Why would terah come after Abraham if terah was the father.

The history between the Jewish people and Christians is also some of the most barbaric history in human history. Christians have been supporting Israel since the 1940s and what has that gained Christians? They are being over run all over the world and where is the jews to say hey stop messing with our friends?

It's about time Christians realize what faith in God really means. To take demands and orders from fascists and marxists is anti god, to push back against fascism and communism is godly.

[pabranno]

Bill,
thank you for raising this issue. It’s been heavy on my heart. My conscience is repelled on so many levels.
I understand the situation as Tolstoy stated in War and Peace: there are bigger hands and bigger stakes behind what we experience as a temporal, historical event. Napoleon was a puppet through his eyes. It’s maddening, and tragic. I believe with all my heart the real truth behind Israel/Gaza is on a spiritual level. I don’t like it, I will never understand it, it breaks my heart. I believe it has been ordained. Who can fathom why, and what does that imply about the nature of God? The nature of humans? Who can really say. I understand most here on Avalon will find this perspective repugnant and ignorant, and a cowardly cop out.

We all have our truths and perspectives. It was important to me to have the courage to share mine.

As I listen to all the voices here on Avalon, over many years, I find myself reshaping on many levels. I look forward to carefully considering all offered perspectives on this issue that affects us all so deeply.

Pamela
(Whew )

[Ewan]

In my experience most, if not the majority, of Christians - or followers of any relegious denomination really - are good at 'paying lip service' to their chosen belief system. Very few can 'walk the walk' though.

Personally I cannot begin to comprehend the mental gymnastics required to conclude one had to support any side in a 'Hell in microcosm' conflagration because they are a Christian (or any other). In fact it seems to me that would go against the prime teachings of Jesus, they're not exactly throwing the moneylenders out of the temple here - it is more like the fire and brimstone of a yahweh jealous god. Perhaps it comes down to that, do you as a Christian subscribe to New Testament thinking or Old Testament thinking. I don't think you can pick and choose depending on circumstance.

[Brigantia]

I do follow a blog that as well as having a topic that interests me, has a Catholic emphasis. The blog is urging prayers for both sides to reach peace with no emphasis for either side to 'win' and that seems to me to be the Christian way forward.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Ewan (here)
In my experience most, if not the majority, of Christians - or followers of any relegious denomination really - are good at 'paying lip service' to their chosen belief system. Very few can 'walk the walk' though.

Personally I cannot begin to comprehend the mental gymnastics required to conclude one had to support any side in a 'Hell in microcosm' conflagration because they are a Christian (or any other). In fact it seems to me that would go against the prime teachings of Jesus, they're not exactly throwing the moneylenders out of the temple here - it is more like the fire and brimstone of a yahweh jealous god. Perhaps it comes down to that, do you as a Christian subscribe to New Testament thinking or Old Testament thinking. I don't think you can pick and choose depending on circumstance.

Marcion (85—160 AD) was the first scholar to point out that the angry, vengeful, ruthless, punishing God of the Old Testament (Jehovah) and the loving God of the New Testament seemed to be two entirely different beings — with entirely different teachings and value systems.

For this inconvenient truth (which I'm personally persuaded is very valid), despite having been a wealthy financial donor to the early Roman Church, he was immediately excommunicated.

It appears that Netanyahu's militant political convictions are entirely Old Testament based. Many have argued, following from where Marcion left off, that the Old Testament Jehovah is not only a different being than the New Testament God (who Jesus is claimed by many to have represented), but is actually what Gnostics call the Demiurge.

The Demiurge is a fundamentally materialistic, self-serving and evil being. Many might suspect that Netanyahu is woven from similar cloth.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The stance of "supporting military action" is paradoxical to a true Christian, or should be, if they understood a single thing that Jesus taught.

[Lysis]

I like what Bill points out about new vs old testament. The god of both bibles is very different. People can point out left and right the influence of enki and enlil on the bible. But it can also be pointed out the influence of egyptian gods/deities.

There is so much confusion not discussed about egypts first RA which is what the god of the bible is. We get the stories of thoth/ningishzida and marduk. But the first RA was Shai. This was the name of ningishzida.

That history was mostly erased after the rule of marduk then the war between marduk and ningishzida. Marduk demanded that only he be worshipped above all and so he was the god of the old testament. But with the new testament you can trace ningishzida as John the Baptist, archangel michael, enoch, lucifer and Jesus.

Because of so much change of word definitions and poor translations we get stories of a burning bush when actually the story is of a mountain on fire. Wine rituals replaced manga which was a drink of cannabis, ephedra and DMT. So even with what people believe about Jesus it's very understandable why jews reject Jesus.

One being the history of crucifixion not aligning with the timeline of jesus by approximately 100 years. Or the merger of Zeus and agathos daimon to make serapis which was the Christian faith for nearly 3000 years before the rise of jesus worship.

It's a case of everybody is right and everybody is wrong. Nobody wants to be on the wrong side of history yet nobody is willing to admit they are wrong when they have mountains of truth in antarctica in the victorialands region.

The average person of any faith is live and let live for the most part. The extremists and fanatics keep pushing conflict instead of understanding. I really want to see these people explain how a 50 to 65 foot tall humanoid that reproduces by egg can knock up a 5 foot human. In stone the anunnaki are portrayed holding a pinecone... an egg makes more sense with the legends of demi gods.

Even end times prophecy is not correct. You have the book of revelations which talks of the end of days and war and Jesus leading an army against evil. But when you look into the other end times prophecies such as told by Enoch or Thoth they tell a very different story.

They speak that in the end times nobody would know the messiah for nobody believes the claims for the world would have been mislead to follow false prophets and messiahs. Good people would be prisoned and the insane zero accountability and elevated above others. Truth would no longer exist for the world has been educated on lies. That in the end times the messiah would expose the corruption of the church and restore faith in God.

Even the original Bible was called "Thoth". Which stands for "the holiest of the holys". So for anyone who does the studies and research this entire conflict with Israel is bad news as its all religious theatrics following a script. During the Cuba missile crisis the usa was going to project a hologram of jesus from a submarine to demoralize Cuba and became recognized as part of blue beam.

[East Sun]

Does either side make a concerted effort to reach a peaceful agreement?

I try to disregard religious implications and by nature am in favor of the underdog, so I would
not support Israel.

[thepainterdoug]

no one should

[Hamish]

Hello,

No.

[BMJ]

NO.

Why?

Israeli created this false flag and Hamas took the bait. They knew the consequences death of Israeli's to justify retaliation and thereafter deaths of Palestinians.

Neither had genuine concerns for their people, this military action by both sides is motivated by politics.

They real victims are Israeli people and Palestinians whom were " murdered by these leaders ".

If both Israeli government and Hamas had real concern for their people they would ensure peace between Israel and the Arab world, from which the entire middle east could prosper.

So regardless of what the bible has to say on this topic Christians should not support this military action as it was deliberate and based on politics.

[Matthew]

Haha great question.

Oof. Good Christian? By its own dogma the unworthy are empowered with a down-payment of Holy Spirit. 'Should' they support Israel.. Ack, 'should' is such an ugly word; it smells of rules, when we are invited to act on the conviction, blessings and gifts of the Holy Spirit. We are ultimately abuse victims in this realm, but Jesus never paints it that way. Instead we are invited to follow his voice out of the abuse which is a straight and narrow path. But its really hard to do this by looking for a straight and narrow paths because there are lots of them. The down-payment of the Holy Spirit empowers us before we are worthy, so if you don't feel worthy it's because we're not. But we didn't chose this. Jesus did. So yes, of course you might not feel worthy but it was chosen FOR you. Don't let the enemy trick you out of this.

A Christian would believe Israel will win as long as they worship God. Therefore if we petition mercy for anyone it must start with her enemies but also of course include Israel. We are encouraged to be unconditional, and look at everyone as a child of God. Israel are the front line leading Gods movement and will be the last to join us with the Messiah. We don't get out of this trap by focusing on injustices or improving... we're well past that, it's only going to get worse that way. Our only way out is by the blood and mercy of Jesus, following his voice. The story goes there are bad times ahead then they think they find the Messiah, but it isn't Him. Then worse times for a bit, then they discover Jesus is the Messiah.

[Pam]

Posted by Lysis (here)
I like what Bill points out about new vs old testament. The god of both bibles is very different. People can point out left and right the influence of enki and enlil on the bible. But it can also be pointed out the influence if egyptian gods/deities. There is so much confusion not discussed about egypts first RA which is what the god of the bible is. We get the stories of thoth/ningishzida and marduk. But the first RA was Shai. This was the name of ningishzida. That history was mostly erased after the rule of marduk then the war between marduk and ningishzida. Marduk demanded that only he be worshipped above all and so he was the god of the old testament. But with the new testament you can trace ningishzida as John the Baptist, archangel michael, enoch, lucifer and Jesus. Because of so much change of word definitions and poor translations we get stories of a burning bush when actually the story is of a mountain on fire. Wine rituals replaced manga which was a drink of cannabis, ephedra and DMT. So even with what people believe about Jesus it's very understandable why jews reject Jesus. One being the history of crucifixion not aligning with the timeline of jesus by approximately 100 years. Or the merger of Zeus and agathos daimon to make serapis which was the Christian faith for nearly 3000 years before the rise of jesus worship. It's a case of everybody is right and everybody is wrong. Nobody wants to be on the wrong side of history yet nobody is willing to admit they are wrong when they have mountains of truth in antarctica in the victorialands region. The average person of any faith is live and let live for the most part. The extremists and fanatics keep pushing conflict instead of understanding. I really want to see these people explain how a 50 to 65 foot tall humanoid that reproduces by egg can knock up a 5 foot human. In stone the anunnaki are portrayed holding a pinecone... an egg makes more sense with the legends of demi gods. Even end times prophecy is not correct. You have the book of revelations which talks of the end of days and war and Jesus leading an army against evil. But when you look into the other end times prophecies such as told by Enoch or Thoth they tell a very different story. They speak that in the end times nobody would know the messiah for nobody believes the claims for the world would have been mislead to follow false prophets and messiahs. Good people would be prisoned and the insane zero accountability and elevated above others. Truth would no longer exist for the world has been educated on lies. That in the end times the messiah would expose the corruption of the church and restore faith in God. Even the original Bible was called "Thoth". Which stands for "the holiest of the holys". So for anyone who does the studies and research this entire conflict with Israel is bad news as its all religious theatrics following a script. During the Cuba missile crisis the usa was going to project a hologram of jesus from a submarine to demoralize Cuba and became recognized as part of blue beam.

Welcome to forum, Lysis!!!! You pose some very valid questions. I always wondered how the Nephilim, human breeding and birth worked if one takes the story literally. I look forward to hearing more from you.

[eagle0027]

Supporting Isreals clear intent to slaughter and take the land of others by anyone regardless of faith is condoning their actions.
The gods that are being worshiped and followed are pretty evil are they not????
These followers now have enough nasty war toys to lay waste to the planet unless they start treating others as they wish to be treated.

[Gwin Ru]

...

... the pieces of the puzzle:

The Corruption Of The Abrahamic Religions Part 1 37:19

December 19, 2023

roypotterqa @RoystonPotter

Source: https://odysee.com/$/embed/@RoystonPotter:b/The-Corruption-Of-The-Abrahamic-Religions-Part-1:e

[Miller]

I was going to say that wars should have nothing to do with religion, as wanton killing is against the ethos of all of them, but of course many wars have been caused solely because of it. And it may be surprising to some - it certainly was to me - that on googling "when was the last time that the world was free of wars", the answer is:

"Historians might quibble over the exact details, but by most accounts there are no periods in history that have been free from war".

What does that tell you about humanity?

[Pam]

I remember as a young child adhering to the belief system that the human race was evolving on a moral level as well as an intellectual level. This would lead to a world that was better at every level. Greater equality of wealth and fairer distribution of resources. The world would become kinder and we would solve issues of pollution and our cruelty to the animals and all beings that we share this reality with. It seems only logical that we learn from our mistakes. I still believe this would be the logical course of things. The reality has created quite a different outcome.

It appears to me that in my life time we have been on a continuous trajectory of de-evolution, the exact opposite of my naive childhood vision of the future. This supports the concept of a reality construct being one of experiencing an inversion of all things that would prove to the betterment of mankind and all the life forms that co-inhabit this reality. There is the narrative(s) that we are programmed with and through the bewitching power of cognitive dissonance, the uncanny ability to hold two contradictory belief systems at the same time, most of the time not even being aware of it. There is the reality that is actually occurring that we can somehow rationize through varying degrees of cognitive dissonance and through an assortment of belief systems and our willingness to accept them, often without much examination.

I used to believe that I must be particularly dense when it came to wars because I had such a hard time understanding the causes of each of the events. It took a long time to realize that the issue was not my inability to comprehend, it had much more to do with the absurdity, lies, and manipulation of belief systems to hijack human support for any of this. Varying belief systems and monetary status and control of resources seem to be effective ways of manipulating humans into participation. Creating "righteous indignation" is also a great manipulation tool. (I speak from experience here).....

Of course, it is never the ones that create the storyline that lead us to participate.

What kind of God would wish participation of this evil on anything or anyone?

My conclusion is that mankind is currently devolving and will have to make a decisive decision to end participation in any of this madness. It may be the whole point of our experience here. Sovereign self vs hive mind.. Just a consideration.

We need to ask ourselves if we want to participate or take any sides with any of this?

The final one is the biggie. What thinking process allows us to even consider taking a side in any if this? How can we make any of this ok.... Remember, Netanyahu's kid was in Miami on vacation for at least part of this...Does God approve of that? Does the creator of life forms create a reality where we have to kill other life forms to live? The whole predator/prey dynamic that acts out at in fractal form throughout this reality construct.

There is something really off about the whole thing. I know my response will most likely not be very well liked. I do not in any way wish to demean anyone who does not see things from my perspective. I respect whatever anyone believes and am grateful that they care enough to have a perspective and have given consideration to the issue.

What I love about this forum is that we can share different perspectives. This is getting rarer by the day. So I celebrate the right and now the privilege of agreeing to disagree.

Love, Pam

[Tam]

I believe the Jewish people, like any people, deserve to have a homeland and a country in which they can feel safe.

I do not believe Israelis, like any people, have the right to invade or occupy another people, or inflict genocide upon them.

As a non-practicing Jew myself, I thought we all learned long ago just how horrific genocide can be.

I won't pretend to be educated enough about the longstanding sociopolitical history of Israel and Palestine to have a proper opinion on what's currently going on.

So I'll let the above statements stand for themselves.

One last thing I will say, though, is I've seen a terrifying rise of casual antisemitism ever since the immediate aftermath of October 7th, and this terrifies me. I'm not a Zionist, and I cannot stand when any kind of accusation of ___-ism is hurled around casually to weaponize innocent people into silence, but this is not the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Just something to be mindful of as this mess gets worse.