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Thread: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11...rumps-science/

    In the comments section of the above noted article, I found this one comment which is (for me) quite valid to make - although I have to exclude his last sentence as to take that leap is ridiculous too.

    Quote While I don't doubt that history gets rewritten in gross and propagandistic ways, nor really that all history is myth, because no true literal accounting may be compiled outside of narrative, well beyond the reach of idealistic science, or the context of methodical results. But if selective groups of people, particularly Jews, were rounded up and put into camps, that in itself is a crime against humanity. If you want to make your arguments later that Americans should not be rounded up and put into FEMA camps, or wherever, then you need to stand strongly against Germany's rounding up of people in the World War 2 era, and not let that be slighted by some conspiratorial trick of hand. Because even if our historical myths about the camps were grossly falsified for some globalist conspiracy, the fact of internment is in itself the original crime, it being the trunk from which any other evils follow out of its mass forfeiture and incarceration of a people.
    Yet then what about the actions of the anonymous "allies" (the supposed good guys when all I see is ALL of them behaving horrifically) - the massive bombing of the populations and then, after victory, the massive crimes against the women of Germany? Sickening. Some from amongst our ancestors mind you... just sickening.
    Last edited by Sammy; 2nd December 2014 at 16:11.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member aikisaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)
    Here's an article that was shared with me this afternoon. I'm not sure if it has been posted already (sorry, feelin' a bit lazy ATM) but it dovetails with the earlier VT article.

    CAUTION - GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIVE CONTENT

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/10...sited-part-ii/

    Enjoy (ish!)

    Edit: I see that the article is actually above though with some of the more graphic bits omitted,... my bad. Still, if it was missed,....
    Gee, the more things change, the more they remain the same. Now India, Africa, and the Middle East are the raping cultures du jour. Oh yeah, the U.S. as well.

    Oops, forgot the Illuminatis in Europe, the royals in England, the church in Canada, the US football teams, the college campuses. The servants in Dubai.

    Oh shoot, the rampant pedophilism in England... Oh shoot, the rape of Shanghai. Oh shoot, the rape of enlisted personnel in the military.

    Doesn't take war to be rapists. It goes on every day. Any excuse will do.

    And we expect one nation to be pure and blameless lol. Suckers. We're all guilty.

    So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.

    Damn, is no place safe? No. There is no safe place. Not on this planet.

    Are you guilty?? Why is that? What exactly are you guilty of?

    That is the intent of the propaganda. It is designed to make you feel guilty .

    My reason for posting the Jonas Alexis article http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/10...sited-part-ii/ was to tell a part of the story which hasn't been told. Thus the thread title. Did you know that went on in Germany post war? I did not.

    No it doesn't take war to be rapists but it does take war to have it occur on that massive of a scale.

    There is a larger game hidden in the WW2 story on many levels. It is entirely possible the rape of Germany was not an accident, and was done by design. It would not be the first time.

    Quote
    So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.
    Rape is a moot point. Do you really believe this? If you do, it would make for a controversial thread. Start one up.

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    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Quote Posted by aikisaw (here)
    Quote So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.
    Rape is a moot point. Do you really believe this? If you do, it would make for a controversial thread. Start one up.
    Hmmmmm.

    MOD HAT OFF:

    Warning: Graphic descriptions contained herein, of today's news.

    You missed my point entirely. And since I am a woman, who knows rape is not a moot point, that would be a lol... a moot point to discuss. But I'll moot anyway.

    My point is that there is mass raping and killing of women going on now, and far worse than anything I have seen in my lifetime or my parent's and grandparent's lifetime.

    Thousands of African women AND children (students) are mass kidnapped, held captive, and raped. In war, African women are raped, their breasts are cut off so they can no longer suckle their children (no market to visit for baby formula either, oh well).

    Thousands of women per year are raped in India, burned alive, heck they get acid thrown on them if they say no to a date or marriage proposal. (Google "rape statistics in India".)

    One in three or four women are getting raped in the U.S.

    The rape of Shanghai, Aik, horrific photos available on that atrocity if you like.

    In some parts of the world, women are getting ganged raped 30/50 times a day, and dying of it.

    At least no one wants to bind my feet (ooh sexy, so helpless) anymore, though my genitals are still not safe in some parts of the world, from cutting and removal with a dirty knife (yes, that leads to death fairly often) and without painkillers. And gosh, since they get "married" so young, the cutting can occur as young as eight or ten. Think about that, the lifetime, no, the multigenerational consequences.

    Oh yes, the honor killings, sigh. Lots of those.

    And worst of all, The statistics on child raping are equally horrific, and getting worse.

    Houston, we have a problem.

    Feel free to start a thread why today doesn't matter, might not even be considered controversial, Africa, India, Middle East, so far away, not white, don't matter, gimme a beer, chug chug, pass the ammo I wanna kill myself a cloth-head, a yellow belly, a ******, a chink, oh wait, Syria, Iran, N. Korea... Oh yeah not Lebanon anymore, not Turkey anymore, not Granada, not Libya (uh wait, Libya is back on, I think), not Nicaragua, not El Salvador... Oh I get so sick of division, war, rape, torture, killing. Just sick.

    Quote
    So it is a moot point as far as I can tell, who did what to whom.
    It is not that rape is a moot point, it is who did what to whom that is a moot point. Everyone is doing everyone at some point in time or another. Let us ask ourselves why. All of us are guilty. Humanity is guilty.

    Aik, man is inhumane, and no one has cornered the market on cruelty. No one.

    Remember who the enemy is. They are not a moot point.

    It is all BS that WE do this. For the masters who run all sides of all war. Whooping and cheering as their coffers fill with blood money.

    Really believe this, humph.

    MOD HAT ON

    Sierra

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    United States Avalon Member aikisaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Quote My point is that there is mass raping and killing of women going on now, and far worse than anything I have seen in my lifetime or my parent's and grandparent's lifetime.
    Is it worse now? Would you, your parents, or grandparents have known about it before the internet age? It is more about we have access to the information now.

    Note all sources are Wiki.

    Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_India
    Quote Thousands of women per year are raped in India, burned alive, heck they get acid thrown on them if they say no to a date or marriage proposal. (Google "rape statistics in India".)
    Rape in India is the fourth most common crime against women in India.[1][2] According to the National Crime Records Bureau 2013 annual report, 24,923 rape cases were reported across India in 2012.[3] Out of these, 24,470 were committed by relative or neighbor; in other words, the victim knew the alleged rapist in 98 per cent of the cases.[4] The incidence of reported rapes in India for 2010 were 1.8 per 100,000 people, among the lowest in the world. The US figure for 2010 was 27.3 per 100,000. However, it is estimated that only 1 in 10 rapes in India gets reported, while in the US 46% are reported.[5][6][7]
    Note India has one of the lowest numbers in the world. It doesn't excuse the behavior but worth noting due to the world is evil mem.

    Quote One in three or four women are getting raped in the U.S.

    The rape of Shanghai, Aik, horrific photos available on that atrocity if you like.
    Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
    The Nanking Massacre, also known as the Rape of Nanking, was an episode of mass murder and mass rape committed by Japanese troops against the residents of Nanking (current official spelling: Nanjing) during the Second Sino-Japanese War. The massacre occurred during a six-week period starting from December 13, 1937, the day that the Japanese captured Nanking, which was then the Chinese capital (see Republic of China). During this period, between 40,000 to over 300,000 (estimates vary) Chinese civilians and disarmed combatants were murdered by soldiers of the Imperial Japanese Army.[7][8] Widespread rape and looting also occurred.[9][10] Several of the key perpetrators of the atrocities, at the time labelled as war crimes, were later tried and found guilty at the International Military Tribunal of the Far East and the Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal, and were executed. Another key perpetrator, Prince Asaka, a member of the Imperial Family, escaped prosecution by having earlier been granted immunity by the Allies.
    I could mention the Allied fire bombing of Dresden killed 400,000 in three days. The war was essentially over at that time and was a city of no military value. I could also mention the 200,000 combined dead for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Which happened while Japan was trying to surrender.



    Quote In some parts of the world, women are getting ganged raped 30/50 times a day, and dying of it.
    Yes, this is what was happening in Germany and eastern Europe post WW2 to women. So, I am not supposed to discuss it because it was a long time ago? or they were white? Did you know it happened at all?

    Quote And worst of all, The statistics on child raping are equally horrific, and getting worse.
    Again, I would ask if it is getting worse, or is it finally being drug out into the light of day? The fact humanity is starting to look at these things ugly as they are, is a good sign. There can be no solutions until you are at least aware of the problem.

    Quote Feel free to start a thread why today doesn't matter, might not even be considered controversial, Africa, India, Middle East, so far away, not white, don't matter, gimme a beer, chug chug, pass the ammo I wanna kill myself a cloth-head, a yellow belly, a ******, a chink, oh wait, Syria, Iran, N. Korea... Oh yeah not Lebanon anymore, not Turkey anymore, not Granada, not Libya (uh wait, Libya is back on, I think), not Nicaragua, not El Salvador... Oh I get so sick of division, war, rape, torture, killing. Just sick.
    Am i being painted with this brush? I have read it several times and it seems I am. Why is that? I never said today doesn't matter. Does bringing up the topic of rape in Germany post WW2 make me a racist?

    This is from today.



    Quote It is not that rape is a moot point, it is who did what to whom that is a moot point. Everyone is doing everyone at some point in time or another. Let us ask ourselves why.
    Fair enough. Why?

    Quote All of us are guilty. Humanity is guilty.
    What are you guilty of? What good does that do for your cause? for mankind? There is nothing good coming from your guilt for anybody.

    This thread could be used to understand how misplaced guilt affects generations of people. It is one of the reasons why we have the world we do today.

    The Allies (good guys) defeated the Germans (bad guys) and protected the Jews (victims) the world rejoiced because evil was vanquished. Who benefits from that story? It is difficult to question the allies as they defeated evil. The Jews were innocent victims and we don't want another Holocaust. Germany and the rest of the world must feel guilty for allowing that to happen to the Jews. It is all steaming pile of dung. For all sides, for the world.

    There is only one era in time which is illegal to talk about in certain countries. Do you go to jail for talking about the numbers in Nanking? Do you lose your job talking about the number of rapes in India? Nope, you can go to any dark epoch in human history and discuss it no problem. Except for 14 years in Germany. Why is that? What did they know that needs to be hidden or covered in so much sh!t that nobody wants to look?

    Quote Really believe this, humph.
    Right back at you.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Quote Posted by aikisaw (here)

    The Allies (good guys) defeated the Germans (bad guys) and protected the Jews (victims) the world rejoiced because evil was vanquished. Who benefits from that story? It is difficult to question the allies as they defeated evil. The Jews were innocent victims and we don't want another Holocaust. Germany and the rest of the world must feel guilty for allowing that to happen to the Jews. It is all steaming pile of dung. For all sides, for the world.
    What's your point though ?

    As most of us so called 'arguing' with most of 'you' in this thread , about uniformity of so called good and so called evil ,
    non existence of 'good guys' and 'bad guys' ,

    what you throw in our face here are your presumptions , your prejudice .

    Who ( really ) made you think that way ?

    Yes I know from larger context and other threads that some here ( MOD Karelia for example ) are of that opinion that history as taught ( to whom though .. ) is exact opposite of true history ,
    and Nazis ( who stole all of the 'Aryan' mythology ) from much older sources worldwide and misused its meaning in order to personify 'divine justice' ,
    against ''much greater evil'' ( here personified by so called 'Reptilian races' , Jews as their off shot etc etc ) were the good guys and all the rest were 'bad guys' .

    I consider such an opinion an extreme view , so does majority of sane individuals who are aware to some extent at least of the danger of such extreme views .

    Other than that ...

    there had been few individuals seen coming here fighting 'against the windmills' and 'myth' of 'good and bad guys' .

    I wonder , what age group could be the most affected , by such a myth , these days , at this place .
    What kind of education do you offer or presume in others ,, when talking of 'good guys' ( the victims ) and bad guys ( who ) .





    Quote There is only one era in time which is illegal to talk about in certain countries. Do you go to jail for talking about the numbers in Nanking? Do you lose your job talking about the number of rapes in India? Nope, you can go to any dark epoch in human history and discuss it no problem. Except for 14 years in Germany. Why is that? What did they know that needs to be hidden or covered in so much sh!t that nobody wants to look?

    Oh , wrong . Unfortunately , you can go to jail in China for discussing the Tianmen massacre : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananm...otests_of_1989

    or the Lhasa uprising : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959_Tibetan_uprising

    and many other similar events for 'igniting public unrest' . According to authorities , those events never happened as people saw them in the streets .

    You can be jailed ( and beheaded ) in orthodox Muslim countries or their enclaves for simple thing , like change of your faith .

    You can ( still ) be jailed in Russia for protesting against government or criticising it openly ( a fact that somehow escaped few Avalonians devoted to the cause of free humanity ) .


    I'd like to know whether talking of native Americans and the way Aztec and Mayan cultures were destroyed by conquistadors is still cultural tabu in America ,

    and whether these 'dirty unkempt savages' are the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' ..

    whilst their totems remind you of snakes and birds , and are totally un-christian and un-catholic .

    Are we talking of civilisation versus barbarianism and if so , what kind of excuse is there , by any religious or civil means for use of brute force against other living beings under the presumption of them being potential source of evil ?



    Not that I really expect that any of us could answer to it .



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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Quote What's your point though ?
    In short, to find out what happened.

    The piece you quoted was part of a larger idea on how useless guilt is. In my opinion the bad guys use guilt to cover up existing and ongoing games.

    Quote As most of us so called 'arguing' with most of 'you' in this thread , about uniformity of so called good and so called evil ,
    non existence of 'good guys' and 'bad guys' ,
    Yes I'm starting to see the pattern now, there are no good guys or bad guys, man is inhumane or so I'm told.

    That is not my world view. There are good people and notice i didn't say perfect people. Many of the good people have been smeared once they figured out the game and began looking for a way out. It is a shame you have no distinction between people trying to good and those who are trying to do harm.

    It really is irrelevant how you view the good , evil discussion because that is the way the story has been told . Thus the thread title A Look Beneath the Holocaust Propaganda.


    Quote what you throw in our face here are your presumptions , your prejudice .
    Isn't that what everyone on the forum does? Are you doing anything different in your post? Whose presumptions would you prefer?

    Quote Yes I know from larger context and other threads that some here ( MOD Karelia for example ) are of that opinion that history as taught ( to whom though .. ) is exact opposite of true history ,
    and Nazis ( who stole all of the 'Aryan' mythology ) from much older sources worldwide and misused its meaning in order to personify 'divine justice' ,
    against ''much greater evil'' ( here personified by so called 'Reptilian races' , Jews as their off shot etc etc ) were the good guys and all the rest were 'bad guys' .
    They stole the Aryan mythology and misused it. LOL It was more about restoring natural law. I'm not sure of your meaning greater evil and good guys part of the quote.

    Quote I consider such an opinion an extreme view , so does majority of sane individuals who are aware to some extent at least of the danger of such extreme views .
    You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
    If we are talking about a majority of sane individuals and their opinions, they would consider reptilians flying across the galaxy to abduct people from their bedroom an extreme view. Do you see the problem in dealing with sane majorities?




    Quote I'd like to know whether talking of native Americans and the way Aztec and Mayan cultures were destroyed by conquistadors is still cultural tabu in America ,
    I was never aware it was a taboo culturally or otherwise. I will say nobody spoke about Aztec and Mayan culture. They did talk about American Indian Culture, but most of the exposure I would classify as a Hollywood version.

    Quote and whether these 'dirty unkempt savages' are the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' ..

    whilst their totems remind you of snakes and birds , and are totally un-christian and un-catholic .
    Just pointing out.... these are your words. This is from your mind. Own it and keep it.

    It would be easier for everyone if Hitler was a stone cold racist. It would be better if he hated all other cultures other than Aryan. What if that isn't the whole story?

    Here is a one hour interview of Veronica Clark:



    Quote http://www.redicecreations.com/radio...RIR-141010.php

    Veronica K. Clark specializes in World War II and military history. She has two associate degrees, one of which is in Diesel Mechanics Technology and she completed one year of doctoral studies in Organizational Psychology. Veronica founded Vera Icona Publishers in 2011. She is the originator of both the 'Warwolves of the Iron Cross' (Wehrwolf) and 'Powerwolf Publications' series as well as the author of the popular book "Black Nazis." Her next book, "Warwolves of the Iron Cross: Black Wolf, White Reich (Volume II)" is scheduled for release. This will be her most comprehensive book on National Socialism race theory/race relations to date. She’ll address common myths surrounding the National Socialists such as the Reichstag fire being a German false flag attack, or that Jews funded Nazis, or that Nazis run the US government today. Veronica also addresses the lie of Nazi obsession with racial purity. She’ll speak about Nazi Germany’s relationship with minorities and foreigners, including black Nazis. In the member’s hour, we continue discussing Nazi myths, such as the claim that fluoride was used in concentration camps. Veronica also details what happened with Poland. She’ll also talk about the false claim of an extermination plan for Slavs or that the Germans viewed them as less than. Then, we’ll hear about Hitler’s attempts to find a home for the Jews. She’ll talk about what she thinks the war was really about. Veronica explains Hitler’s relationship with Stalin, communist activities and the myth of Britain’s innocence in the “good war.” Later, she speaks about why Nazis were against Freemasonry. Veronica elaborates on what Freemasonry began as and what it is now. She explains why National Socialism and Fascism are the nemesis of the Jews. At the end, she shares her sources and talks about the challenges with
    Last edited by karelia; 23rd December 2014 at 12:29. Reason: Embedded video at poster's request

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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    I believe that ultimately most humans are good because all of us have that divine spark inside us, but most have forgotten it. However, people can be guided through ignorance to do the most atrocious things to each others, because we humans have the dark aspect to ourselves too, but we just need to embrace the light side. We have not had honest, humble kindhearted people (or if and when we have had, those ones have been very rare) as leaders who would have guided humanity to the right path... Instead we have had these egomaniacs who only want power and profit who have guided people to do their dirty deeds. In their delusion they have totally forgot what living is about, it's about love and harmony, not success and power. In their ignorance they can't see what they are doing to their fellow man and this Earth and in the end the hammer will fall on them. This has been truly the age of ignorance which will eventually change into an age of enlightenment.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Please put the thread back on the propaganda topic.
    Battling historic myth/stories has no value. The truth is very subjective.
    After all history is what a person told/chose to believe by propaganda. And facts are only distractions to strong beliefs.

    So lets focus on the propaganda.
    1. How the propaganda works?
    2. Who is behind the propaganda, what are their goals?
    3. How to identify propaganda?
    4. What about counter propaganda? Is it effective?

    Hope this steers the thread back to topic.
    We are playing a virtual reality game, of duality. In the game of choices, align your choices with your ideals. Everything is whole, complete and perfect. Even yourself. Love is the power to change/create.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Counter question : why would anyone truly understanding this 'matter' come to debate it at the same time ... there are always 2 options ..

    if you search for 'understanding' , go to the library of resources , speak to original witnesses of WWII ,

    or whatever is your ... blessed interest ... internet is mostly 'referential domain' .

    What's the trick of any and all propaganda ?

    Trick being played on your mind . You're being called 'user' here , such as in 'internet user' and that's who you are .

    However , like more than few people on this very board you're also aware of the option of you being used . If you can discard it safely as nonsense then perhaps, you're 'propaganda free' .


    Realise your advantage as free thinking entity , as freedom respecting entity and good being .

    Anything else than that will cause harms to yourself and others .


    This world entails lots of suffering , generally , it is a physical , biological so also psychological phenomenon. One people trying to take over other people is no news .

    Somehow we're all searching someone to blame it on, someone else out there .. isn't he, she , it, also inseparable part of our own selves ?


    How much capable would your intelligence power be if all your DNA 'strands' held their hands and linked your information together ?

    You'd naturally surpass the AI power . Too futuristic perhaps ..

    Know thyself and by that everything else becomes known to you .


    Me thinks

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    I don't think merely talking about June-4 is a crime. If you post on any forum in China that is strongly anti-government, your post would get deleted, that's all. Ordinary criticism is tolerated. Judging from what's written in Wiki about the incident, it appears that Wikipedia is another tool to rewrite history. When enough is written about a historical event with a certain false view (lie told a thousand times), then when the people involved have all died off, what is written is the "real history" dug up by future historians. This must have been the case in all human history, but much more so in the recent centuries because of the greater hypocrisy and manipulative power of modern TPTB.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Red Ice Radio just published a recent interview with Germar Rudolf, the Max Planck Institute expert witness eventually imprisoned by the German authorities for trying to present evidence in one of the 1990's trials:

    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    David Cole just released a video of his very candid and highly entertaining speech at the 1994 IHR conference, previously banned by IHR founder, Mark Weber due to Cole's commentary on all-round sleazeball Michael Shermer. In David's own words:

    Quote ...well, “banned” is maybe not the best word. The IHR decided not to use the speech because it was too loose and anecdotal to make a good printed essay for the journal. But also, more importantly, Mark Weber was still holding out hope that weaselly dirtbag Dr. Michael Shermer could be convinced to be publicly honest about his views regarding revisionism. Of course, Mark, like me, like everyone, learned the hazards of trusting that sweaty, shifty little lump of mediocrity. But in ’94, I was the only one sounding the alarm. And indeed, I was harsh in my speech, taking no prisoners. So Mark, always the very picture of discretion, decided to withhold publication or promotion of it.
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Below is a new article by David Cole published on the Taki Magazine site on the subject of the new movie Denial, a Hollywood production purporting to document but in reality distorting the libel case against Deborah Lipstadt by David Irving.



    In the article, David (Cole) shares elements of his recent correspondence with David (Irving) on the subject of the movie as well as tackling the “Auschwitz or Bust” mentality of both deniers and the Deborah Lipstadts of this world i.e: the idea that Auschwitz was the driver of holocaust belief. For example even the trailer for the movie contains the line "Auschwitz is at the very center of holocaust belief, so it’s at the very center of holocaust denial”.

    Quote
    Holocaust denial is dead, but no one knows it. Worse, it appears as though no one wants to know. Not the media, not Jews, and especially not Jew-haters. But it’s true. Denial has gone the way of the woolly mammoth. It exists these days as a bogeyman, a bugbear, an illusion in the minds of hardcore anti-Semites and harder-core Semites. It’s a scarecrow that Jew-haters erect to frighten Jews and that Jews maintain to frighten themselves.

    But let’s ease into that point. Better to begin at the cinema, where fantasies come alive…

    On Friday, September 30th, the world will be treated to the premiere of the new motion picture Denial, which tells the story of how Deborah Lipstadt, the heroically plucky (or pluckily heroic) college professor and Holocaust scholar, prevailed in court after being sued for libel by the villainous, evil Holocaust denier David Irving. Lipstadt is played by Academy Award-winning actress Rachel Weisz, and Irving is portrayed by renowned bridge troll Timothy Spall. The director is Mick Jackson, the Brit responsible for Volcano (you remember that one, don’t you? About the volcano that sprouts up in the middle of L.A. to harass Tommy Lee Jones and Anne Heche. We all saw that one, right?).

    The film is based on true events. In the mid-1990s, Irving sued Lipstadt for libel in an English court after she labeled him (among other things) a Holocaust denier, a racist and an anti-Semite, and a falsifier of history. Irving eventually lost the case, which had been argued before a judge rather than a jury (by mutual agreement of the plaintiff and defendant). The judge conceded that although Lipstadt had made several false accusations against Irving, the more serious of her claims—that he was a denier, a hater, an associate of haters, and a falsifier—were provable enough to excuse her from the charge of libel.

    Although I was out of revisionism by the time the judgment was rendered (April 2000), I was keenly aware that, among revisionists, Irving’s defeat was seen as a major, potentially fatal setback, not just for Irving but for Holocaust revisionism in general. Revisionists had always been on the side of the defendant, the prosecuted, the persecuted. The victims of the legal system. There is a certain nobility in being the one dragged before the bench merely for speech. But this time, it was a revisionist who had instigated the proceedings. The defendant was a Jewish Holocaust author, and the “crime” was her words. On Irving’s part, it was a Barbarossa-level gambit—the kind of campaign a man should undertake only if he is absolutely, positively certain of victory, because the consequences of defeat would be devastating. And for Irving, they certainly were. He could now legally be called a denier and an anti-Semite with impunity. The fact is, I’m surprised as hell that it took Hollywood sixteen years to finally turn the trial into a movie.

    I asked Irving, who I’ve known since 1992, for his thoughts on the film. He told me that no one from the production ever contacted him for his side of the story (no surprise there). He added:

    Ridley Scott was directing the original version, but the newspapers say he quit when HBO asked him to include fictional elements. I have not seen anything of ‘Denial’ but bits of trailers: the opening scene, of my first confrontation with Lipstadt in Atlanta in November 1994, is fictional; it happened, but my actual challenge, waving $1,000 in notes in the air, was: “If you will now show this audience the actual blueprint you just told this audience that you have, I will give you these notes.” See our video of the scene, posted on YouTube. They have changed that wording materially.

    The article and elements of the Cole / Irving correspondence continues here....
    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...

    Further to post 833, here David Irving discusses his legal battles, and in relation to the holocaust he goes in to the facts at 1 hour 17 minutes.

    David Irving - Jailed and Beaten For Telling Truth of 2nd World War




    Richard Bruce
    Published on Oct 8, 2016
    SUBSCRIBE 58K
    As I became aware of the huge lie about Hitler and WWII I find the star historian, and now one of the only experts you can trust, is David Irving. Here in this nearing the end of his journey talk, he tells how he was put in solitary confinement for four hundred days (no small hell, I've been for three days - you go ape second day) because telling the truth in Austria is currently against the law, and you can still be thrown in prison for saying anything about the truth of what really happened in WWII.

    The difference with David Irving as he well describes himself is that he actually went to the sources like Hitler's personal staff, who only talked with him because he had written a book on the bombing of Dresden. All you have to do is listen to a few of these lectures of him on YouTube to be convinced he is an extraordinary and essential figure for a very important truth that was kept from us, and I certainly plan on reading as many of his books as I can.

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