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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Murders in the camps? You mean the German controlled ones?
    And that 24 million, is that in the gulags?
    I'm not going to debate with you. You dismiss out of hand the survivors' testimonies. You think you know more than everybody else, as you announced with your first post.

    I learned a long time ago about the kind of posters that are and are not worth my time.

    I'd just love to make you call the survivors I know (well, many have since passed), liars. To their faces. All of them. And then account for all of the people they loved, who died.

    But of course, this will never happen, and you do not care.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    I'm not going to debate with you. You dismiss out of hand the survivors' testimonies. You think you know more than everybody else, as you announced with your first post.

    I learned a long time ago about the kind of posters that are and are not worth my time.

    I'd just love to make you call the survivors I know (well, many have since passed), liars. To their faces. All of them. And then account for all of the people they loved, who died.

    But of course, this will never happen, and you do not care.
    This is the exact type of thing I am trying to avoid.
    Your post is only about emotion, nothing else.
    I don't know the ''survivors'' you know, I am talking in a general way. Most of them tell us things in their stories that are not possible. If that is the case, I don't care who are what they are, I am dubious straight away.
    And you tell me that I dismiss them out of hand, yet you do the exact opposite. Is that not the same thing, but in a different alignment?
    And then you tell me I am not worth your time, if that is so, why post this then?
    The ones that need to read about this THE most are jews. First and foremost them, then Europeans. You know why?
    We are both trapped in a paradigm of exploitation of our empathy and/or guilt.
    Your attitude impedes the healing of those still trapped.
    You can call me all the names you want, but that makes no difference, until we transcend this crap, we are stuck.
    Last edited by Lord Sidious; 21st March 2011 at 09:54.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    This is the exact type of thing I am trying to avoid.
    Your post is only about emtion, nothing else.
    I don't know the ''survivors'' you know, I am talking in a general way. Most of them tell us things in their stories that are not possible. If that is the case, I don't care who are what they are, I am dubious straight away.
    And you tell me that I dismiss them out of hand, yet you do the exact opposite. Is that not the same thing, but in a different alignment?
    And then you tell me I am not worth your time, if that is so, why post this then?
    The ones that need to read about this THE most are jews. First and foremost them, then Europeans. You know why?
    We are both trappend in a paradigm of exploitation of our empathy and/or guild.
    Your attitude impedes the healing of those still trapped.
    You can call me all the names you want, but that makes no difference, until we transcend this crap, we are stuck.
    Look. Try to understand how you present yourself.

    You say things like, "Many, if not most of the so called survivor stories I have seen contain ''facts'' that can only be taken with faith, for if you used science, they would be seen to be fantasy." As if you would know. This is really just despicable, calling them all liars like that.

    MEANWHILE...

    "There was a guy called Reinhard Heydrich, head of the RSHA, the Reichs Central Security Office and his superior, Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS ordered him on three seperate occasions to investigate this rumour.
    The result was the same each time, no veracity at all."

    You believe in conspiracy theories, and pretend to believe in science, yet.... you can't fathom how the SS might fail to discover that Hitler has Jewish ancestry... even worse, you CONTINUE to believe their findings are accurate, despite SCIENCE now revealing otherwise.

    Seems like you have a highly selective filter in terms of which sources are believable, and which are not. And again, in terms of which science is to be heard, and which, ignored.

    You know what kind of person displays these kinds of internal inconsistencies?

    A person with an agenda that means more to them than the truth.

    This is a kind of person you can not argue with effectively, because they are not even aware of the extent to which they lie to themselves. There is no reasonable road through which to traverse a field of illogical denials.

    I hope you someday come to understand.
    Last edited by Transdimensional Bean Pod; 31st January 2011 at 18:11.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    Look. Try to understand how you present yourself.

    You say things like, "Many, if not most of the so called survivor stories I have seen contain ''facts'' that can only be taken with faith, for if you used science, they would be seen to be fantasy." As if you would know. This is really just despicable, calling them all liars like that.
    So what do you want me to do? Believe fantasy stories because someone makes a claim that x happened to them?
    And you notice I said many, if not most. How does that become I called them all liars?
    You could at least pretend to be neutral.

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    MEANWHILE...

    "There was a guy called Reinhard Heydrich, head of the RSHA, the Reichs Central Security Office and his superior, Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS ordered him on three seperate occasions to investigate this rumour.
    The result was the same each time, no veracity at all."

    You believe in conspiracy theories, and pretend to believe in science, yet.... you can't fathom how the SS might fail to discover that Hitler has Jewish ancestry... even worse, you CONTINUE to believe their findings are accurate, despite SCIENCE now revealing otherwise.
    Did you think maybe, just maybe, those who ordered the investigation wanted to find out the truth to use against Hitler at a later date? That if in fact he did have jewish blood, they could depose him and take over?
    And what are you on about science revealing otherwise?

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    Seems like you have a highly selective filter in terms of which sources are believable, and which are not. And again, in terms of which science is to be heard, and which, ignored.

    You know what kind of person displays these kinds of internal inconsistencies?

    A person with an agenda that means more to them than the truth.
    You seem to be very judgemental, that isn't a good sign for someone seeking out the truth. If you can show me that anything I have said is wrong, I will acknowledge that. Will you do the same?

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    This is a kind of person you can not argue with effectively, because they are not even aware of the extent to which they lie to themselves. There is no reasonable road through which to traverse a field of illogical denials.

    I hope you someday come to understand.
    If you are going to continue to talk down to people, why not just stop posting?
    I notice that as soon as someone disagrees with you, you make it personal and get narky, I don't think that is appreciated here.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Just to add to this,

    I knew a man who lived in Triest, he spoke to many migrants leaving Europe in 1928. Most of the people leaving then were Jewish, he asked many why are you leaving here, they said something bad is going to happen in Germany.

    A ducumentary show in Holland some years ago regarding Anne Frank, it this it was shown that the nazi's did not hunt Jewish people in Holland but that the Dutch betrayed the Jewish people to the Nazi's for money!

    I know some people that have asked permission to ground-radar mass burial sites like Auschwitz, permission denied. Later on they managed to ground rader most of a mass buriel at a concentrations camp in Poland, before being removed the result showed that they found nothing there, no bone fragments, no teeth... this seemed rather odd!

    I also read an articale on Zyklon B pellets used, it seems this substance leaves a blue stain on the walls of a chamber, non of this or even the slightest residue was found on Auschwitz gas chamber walls. after samples were taken and tested for this material. rather strange!



    Also:

    Why was Bush’s grandfather or his businesses involved in financing Hitler rise to power?
    Why was Bush’s grandfather or his businesses involved in financing the death camps?

    I do not believe this man killed himself, too many would protect him…

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  7. Link to Post #126
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Sidious.

    Google DNA Hitler Jewish, and update your programming.

    It's not in any way off topic or wrong to point out your logical inconsistencies. And it's a better use of my time than a point-by-point with a person so rooted in such faulty thinking.

    It's disingenuous to now back peddle on the eyewitnesses. Much as it is to talk about other people's attitudes when you enter a thread announcing you know more than everybody else put together. (but let's not talk down to others, right?)

    People disagree with me ALL OVER the place. And I don't talk down to any of them. Occasionally, people tick me off, and I address them. You just happen to be one of those handful of people.

    When it comes to certain issues, folks like you need to be confronted, because not all conspiracy memes are harmless. This 'kick the jew' meme, is among the more insidious, and if you don't like my having emotions about it, tough luck.

    I'm sorry to be the first person to hold up a mirror to your words.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    Sidious.

    Google DNA Hitler Jewish, and update your programming.
    Right, so you disagree with me and the logical conclusion is that I am programmed? How very enlightened of you.
    If you are talking about this recent ''test'' where it is claimed that Hitler had jewish blood and african blood, do you really believe that? I mean really, not do you want to believe it.

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    It's not in any way off topic or wrong to point out your logical inconsistencies.
    I would agree that if I am wrong, it isn't offtopic or wrong of a poster to show me.

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    And it's a better use of my time than a point-by-point with a person so rooted in such faulty thinking.
    So your time is worth more than to honestly answer questions in a debate that you entered willingly?
    Oh and thanks for showing me exactly what type of poster you are with every single post you make here.

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    It's disingenuous to now back peddle on the eyewitnesses.
    You extrapolated a meaning from my words that isn't evident. If anything, you are the one being disingenuous. Outright dishonest to the verge of lying, actually.

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    Much as it is to talk about other people's attitudes when you enter a thread announcing you know more than everybody else put together. (but let's not talk down to others, right?)
    How do you know that I don't know more about it from the other side? The common mainstream promoted side is one that lots are familiar with.
    And my comment wasn't meant to be taken like that, but it does sound like that now you point it out to me.

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    People disagree with me ALL OVER the place. And I don't talk down to any of them.
    Oh yes you do, you asked me in that other thread why am I interjecting between you and someone else you are talking down to.

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    Occasionally, people tick me off, and I address them. You just happen to be one of those handful of people.
    People tick me off too, and you know what? When that happens, we have an opportunity to either settle or inflame the situation and it shows more about us than we might realise.

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    When it comes to certain issues, folks like you need to be confronted, because not all conspiracy memes are harmless. This 'kick the jew' meme, is among the more insidious, and if you don't like my having emotions about it, tough luck.
    Where did I ''kick a jew'' at all here?
    Is this conflict because you are jewish?

    Quote Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
    I'm sorry to be the first person to hold up a mirror to your words.
    Yeah, because before you, no one had ever done that.
    Get real.
    Last edited by Lord Sidious; 31st January 2011 at 19:43.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Here are some facts, only a few of countless ones-

    There was a census done in Europe before the war, and after. I believe the Red Cross had something to do with it, or maybe just has the facts about it. There were NO missing Jews, especially not to the tune of 6 million! There were people lost as a result of the war, but that was straight across the board.

    Another fact is that if you comb through some of the earliest reports of those 6 million, you'll see that they kept dropping from that original figure, lower and lower, until it bottomed out around 150,000. (Do some reading.)

    The second is something I have had a very personal experience with, because I was fortunate to have access to ALL of the copies of letters, journals, and magazine/newspaper articles and books, written by one Jesse George Murray, now deceased. Died in the early 1990's at the age of 89.

    He was a journalist, an investigative reporter, in his youth, then worked for the gov. of the US. He had knowledge of the inside workings, and named names and told the true stories of key events. His wife was CIA, so they shared information. They both became ambassadors and were sent to many locations globally, with their particular assignments.

    ***After WWII, they were both sent to Germany to head the rebuilding program, which ultimately lasted 5 years.

    They had very specific instructions to NOT hire any workers of German descent, which meant most were of Jewish descent.

    Initially, these Jewish employees were very distant and distrustful, but after a few months, felt comfortable with George (he preferred this to Jesse) and his wife Virginia, and they started talking.

    They ALL revealed THERE NEVER WAS A HOLOCAUST. Never a plan to exterminate the Jews. They'd never heard of such a thing, and they went about asking everyone they knew too, and the final, bottom line, was NO, it didn't happen.

    Yes, there were camps, but there always are in the times of war, as peoples are being displaced, and yes, disease can run rampant (Typhoid, for instance which can decimate a healthy human being within 48 hours), kill thousands if not tens of thousands in a couple weeks, when so many people are living in such tight quarters, and yes, their were open pits, filled with bodies, because some disease had run rampant...

    And of course, there was the human element. Guards and soldiers who abused the people, tormenting, torturing, raping...

    And forced labor camps, also part of the War-Machine, which could explain men, women, and children being sent to separate camps...

    And yes, there are people who say they were there, and I believe they were, and they saw these things happening, but isn't there a possibility that they have been given an explanation, which they readily accept?


    The truth has been coming out, slowly from different quarters...for instance, one of the most famous Jews, who had a major influence on how we all perceived this, was Elli Wiesel, WHO ADMITTED his book on his being in a camp and the horrific conditions, WAS FICTION. (His admittance didn't happen until he was in his 80's I believe.)



    So.....are you going to tell me the journals and letters I read, by Jesse George Murray were all fabricated?

    With this, as with anything else, as we try to determine where the truth lies, you MUST consider, WHO HAD THE MOST TO GAIN?
    Last edited by slvrfx; 31st January 2011 at 19:37.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Thanks for that slvrfx.
    That is the type of post I am looking for, one that puts things up for debate without emotion, name calling and finger pointing.
    I resent people implying I am doing this because I hate jews like our former forum buddy did.
    I then saw that he had pulled that on another thread with someone else.

    For the benefit of all readers here.
    Let's get one thing straight, there is not one man or woman on this earth, me included that is immune from criticism of their deeds.
    Crying anti-semitism because someone says something you don't like is the same tactic children use when they tell their parents they hate them because they couldn't have x.
    Theoretically, we should be above that type of behaviour here as a lot, or most, I don't know, are in the process of having our consciousness expand and we should know better and do better.
    If someone did post stuff that was considered to be an attack on another poster, I am fairly confident that Bill and his staff will sort that real quick.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    ''I just don't understand where the guilt is coming from on behalf of the ordinary everyday people to not question. Is it guilt - or is it fear, perhaps? Maybe it's just ignorance, lack of interest, I don't know - I'm just curious as to their motivation - or lack of.''

    I have long wondered this myself, I would also argue that most North Americans feel similarly about 9/11.

    Could it be, that deep down most of us are aware, perhaps on a psychic level, that we are ignorant to what is really going on around us? I sometimes think that we are subconsciously aware of our lack of awareness, and this may be a source of guilt.

    We pause, momentarily, from the endless cycle of consumption, from the learned patterned behavior of helplessness, to feel guilt about our ignorance and the suffering of others.

    Only to return, with a sigh, back to the trough...
    Last edited by Scout; 31st January 2011 at 20:21. Reason: sorry - top part was a quote ...

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Takes a lot of strength and diligence to 'kick against the pricks'. I believe people KNOW instinctively, but they also know they have spouses and children, jobs, mortgages, meetings, time frames, and lots of pressure to fit in this norm.

    IT TAKES A LOT TO FIGHT THE EXISTING SYSTEM.

    I think the guilt is from KNOWING, but choosing not to do anything about it, for whatever reason.

    (I speak here specifically about debunking all the lies. Piles and piles and piles and piles ad infinitum!)

    That's why there has to be a major flip of EVERYTHING. Mother Earth will have to 'shake off the fleas', for this has grown WAY OUTTA HAND!

    (Mother knows how weak and ineffectual we feel. She has compassion, but patience has run out, not so much with us, but the situation. What IS expected of us, is that we do the best we can from wherever we are. The gaps will be filled. BELIEVE ME.)

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    The understanding is:

    Joseph was not a carpenter, he was a land and building owner.

    Joseph was of the priestly class.

    Priestly class or group, is granted to the first male born child, and that child was supposed to and ONLY be born at the correct time of year.

    This meant that until that child was born as male and at the correct time of year, it was HANDS OFF for Joseph and Mary.

    Apparently they had the hots for one another, and had an accident. Jesus was born at the wrong time of year.

    How did that happen! "Oh, it was divine intervention!", Joseph and Mary say,....as they each get uncomfortable...clear their throats, and look in other directions.(How bout those bears?-talk sports or something---change the subject, quick!)

    Jesus's brother JAMES was the actual first born male in the correct time frame of the given year. He ended up being the heir to the family line, etc.

    Jesus was left to his own devices, to some degree..and becomes another 'Sir Francis Bacon', the socially and culturally illegitimate child of a powerful union, who is denied his heritage.
    I have read before your point about Joseph being from a “priestly class” without the key component you correctly add, divine intervention so yes another bit of the jigsaw you could say.
    Last edited by Fred259; 31st January 2011 at 21:39.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    It sounds simple, but it is not. Even trained psychologists have been completely fooled. A good friend of mine is exactly that, a trained psychologist, and he is certain that George H. W. Bush is a fine, upstanding human being. The average person doesn't even know what a sociopath is, much less their defining characteristics and personality deficits. Women can be married to them for decades and never recognize the manipulation they have fallen for.
    I enjoy your well crafted posts Chicodoodoo, thought provoking to say the least. I wonder however how your friend could consider George H.W. Bush or his son for that matter as “fine upstanding human beings”?

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    I wonder however how your friend could consider George H.W. Bush or his son for that matter as “fine upstanding human beings”?
    That depends on what you notice.

    I too for many years considered Bush father and son to be "fine upstanding human beings".

    The conscious mind is but a thin layer of all that is.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Yes, there were camps, but there always are in the times of war, as peoples are being displaced, and yes, disease can run rampant (Typhoid, for instance which can decimate a healthy human being within 48 hours), kill thousands if not tens of thousands in a couple weeks, when so many people are living in such tight quarters, and yes, their were open pits, filled with bodies, because some disease had run rampant...

    And of course, there was the human element. Guards and soldiers who abused the people, tormenting, torturing, raping...

    And forced labor camps, also part of the War-Machine, which could explain men, women, and children being sent to separate camps...

    And yes, there are people who say they were there, and I believe they were, and they saw these things happening, but isn't there a possibility that they have been given an explanation, which they readily accept?


    The truth has been coming out, slowly from different quarters...for instance, one of the most famous Jews, who had a major influence on how we all perceived this, was Elli Wiesel, WHO ADMITTED his book on his being in a camp and the horrific conditions, WAS FICTION. (His admittance didn't happen until he was in his 80's I believe.)

    Interesting story slvrfx. You do however mention a figure of 6 million, but it was the case wasn’t it that in the late 1950s this figure was 12, million which is quite extraordinary, then it went to 10, and then 8. I seem to remember it was 8 million during the 1970s but I could be wrong, and now we are at 6 million.

    I think that this is perhaps closer to the truth, and as you say it does seem that many are reflecting on this now.

    This story caught my eye. Russian Jews would rather emigrate to Germany, rather than Israel, and it would seem this is causing raised eyebrows in Jerusalem.

    http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011...-to-big-cities


    This matter really does need to be resolved. It’s my understanding that the German taxpayers have paid the State of Israel very very considerable sums of money over the past 50 for the ill-treatment and suffering of the Jews. One wonders what would happen now with these new revelations. Does anyone know how much money has been paid or pledged?
    Last edited by Fred259; 31st January 2011 at 22:23.

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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Teakai (here)
    I’ve been reading about the holocaust and how there are those who believe that the story we’ve been told about it is a great deal of public relations propaganda in order to influence the minds of people to think a particular way.

    Now, I’m not for a minute saying that utterly terrible things which ought never to have happened, happened during WWll.
    And are still happening today to other people in other countries – but for some reason that pales in significance in people’s minds in comparison to that of ‘the holocaust’.

    However, looking beyond the human tragedy of it, the question arises: - was it all an essential part of the greater plan to drive the new world order agenda full steam ahead?

    The Rothschilds (‘ptb’ being Zionists and apparently Jews (handy that) and god knows what else ) funded both sides of this war, they were responsible for the start of the UN.
    Great Britian wanted US support during WWll, so a deal was done that Great Britian would hand over a chunk of Palestine (now considerably grown and increasingly growing ) if the US could be inspired to join – bring on p*ssing off the Japanese and thereby instigating the attack on Pearl Harbour.

    All these moves, and many more, have been chess piece moves taking place under the cover of using human pawns in order to strategically place the pieces to bring about the globalist ‘nwo’ agenda.

    It is illegal in certain countries to be a holocaust denier, and even people in countries where it isn’t have been so brainwashed by the propaganda they are unable to discuss the situation with an open mind and an opinion not shrouded by emotion.
    Which is an absolute shame, for while it remains an un-investigated and unquestioned event the Jewish people will remain sacrificial lambs to the Zionist movement to attain total control over the world and humanity.

    And, while we allow the cockroaches to remain hiding under the cover of Holocaust guilt and censorship they will continue doing whatever it is they are doing to make the world a place that none of us want to live in.

    Have at it.
    I read this post on Saturday night whilst surfing as a visitor. My reaction was "MY GOD - THESE PEOPLE DO ACTUALLY PRACTICE & ALLOW FREE SPEECH". I joined the sight immediately and am now an Avalonian newbie.

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  23. Link to Post #137
    Palestinian Territory Unsubscribed
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by scopecover (here)
    I read this post on Saturday night whilst surfing as a visitor. My reaction was "MY GOD - THESE PEOPLE DO ACTUALLY PRACTICE & ALLOW FREE SPEECH". I joined the sight immediately and am now an Avalonian newbie.
    Welcome to our humble corner of the internetssssssssssssssss.

  24. Link to Post #138
    New Zealand Avalon Member witchy1's Avatar
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    I see transindental bean pod has unsubscribed. I was going to wade in with a comment -

    Please let Lord Sidious have his say. You dont have to believe it, but you do need give him the space to express his views and provide respect of free speech. There is little point in a constant barrage of "I dont believe you because my uncle / aunt/ best friend said...." without first hearing it all. We do not want a tirade of emotional disturbance to derail the topic

    We absolutely need to hear all sides first before making a considered judgement decision on the matter - clear your mind of preconceived notions and just listen without judgement for a few minutes.

    A note to others: If the topic herein incites rage within , hate or any other ill-feeling or dark emotions - then this may not be the place for you. If however you can control those emotions and provide a logical discourse and considered debate then please stay. We welcome your point of view as well. All comments may need to be fully referenced to ensure the emotions stay in check.

    I think there is enough substance to the arguments to provide the space for a full discussion on the matter.

    Sidious, please continue we are listening.

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  26. Link to Post #139
    Avalon Member Teakai's Avatar
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    The girls were called virgins.

    In those days, it didn’t have the same meaning as it does in our society today.

    A young virgin was just a “young girl” what we would call teenagers.

    So a young virgin had a baby by conception, in the same we were all conceived.

    It’s a play on words and manipulation of the mind. I told you about my doctor. She in turn told me that ovaries are the most imbedded organ in the body. How could you have a virgin birth, its impossible?

    So today the translation would be a teenage pregnancy…
    That's definitely one way you could look at it, Fred. Very down to earth and 'normal'
    There are others - as with the Greek version and as with the video I posted. That may be termed a virgin birth also - if the woman was a virgin to begin with of course - impregnated without intercourse.

    Lots of UFO references in mediaeval religious art, as I mentioned earlier. I wonder at the link.

    The barriers of your belief will form the bars which imprison your mind.

  27. Link to Post #140
    New Zealand Avalon Member witchy1's Avatar
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    Default Re: A look beneath the Holocaust Propoganda...

    Quote "MY GOD - THESE PEOPLE DO ACTUALLY PRACTICE & ALLOW FREE SPEECH".
    Welcome to Avalon scopecover, pull up a seat and enjoy the forum.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    As an aside, what is it about that back to front penguin avatar - 3 with that avatar have gone in 2 days---------hmmmm

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