Personal Experience with Utopian Concepts

[modwiz]

I love this last post of yours W4C. I can feel your power growing and the passion to do this properly building. You are very inspiring.

I want to clarify my aristocracy concept is more poetic than literal and was built more around a benefactor with vision and means.

You are a treasure and invaluable resource for anyone looking to build a meaningful life in the 21rst century. I am directing attention here from the other Avalon as a Model Community thread because this is where it can evolve beyond talk.

The posts, if and when they come, will reveal much of what people are looking for and have to offer. In another post I would like to provide my skill sets, as I think it might be a good way to see what tools the Universe brings to this eddy of consciousness.

IMHO you were called for this and are selflessly putting it out there for any who care to take a look.

[doodah]

Thank you w4c. I'll take some time today to sort through all the info you're giving us. I don't want to straddle the fence any more than I have to, I'd rather leap the fence. Although I understand where you're coming from, working in and around TPTB, I'd say we should find the place with the least possible restriction, the least local regulation over what you can and can't do. For instance, 36 people, how many dwellings? Where I am, in Virginia, there are limits to how many dwellings you can put on so much acreage... that keeps people from being able to build "compounds" and you end up with big single dwellings that can house many people in order to get around that. I still envision a village, many dwellings.

Mod wiz, I can see where you're finding cognitive dissonance in what I said. The aristocracy at the place I mentioned is 6 people, those three families who started the venture and were permanent residents. They were the aristocracy because they were the ones doing it, with transients coming and going who were never permanent residents. We're talking 36 people as permanent residents. All of them should be united in common purpose, with similar commitment to the overriding "philosophy" of how we want this to work, as well as being willing, themselves, to do the work to make it happen. They would have to be, in order for it to work in a harmonious manner. Maybe this is rule by consensus rather than rule by aristocracy. I prefer rule that is fluid, shifting amongst the members as needed, with no one controlling hand. Many native tribes functioned this way. I like to think that we're more or less creating a tribe.

[write4change]

Doodah,

Please please do me a favor and click on the link provided in Post number 59. I think you will get happy.

[doodah]

Thank you. I did. They're gorgeous. I've done quite a bit of my own research over the last 5 years, and I remember checking those out. The question is whether that is considered a single dwelling or a multi-family dwelling, in TPTB parlance, and what restrictions there are on building that. In terms of the Earth ships only being allowed to be built in the boonies, isn't the boonies where we want to be? It's where I want to be!

And yes, at some point we should make lists of our skill sets.

[Lifebringer]

I enjoyed the commentary and welcome to posting.
I used to be bitter because I saw things that others wouldn't believe, felt things others didn't but here, I feel at home and call myself an Avalonian of Earth in light of disclosure of the truth.

I summed it up to greed over life. Putting a price on everything that sustains life, and creating a monopoly to make the people who work and slave for crappy wages, always beholden to the company bottom line, and not universal compassion for life and freedom of existence.

I hope to spiritually meld with others here, to change it by "thinking it through to outcome for truth."
Demand it and tell the media, to stop with the fairy tales, we are not children.
Lies for corporate resource profits?
Not on my watch.

[write4change]

Doodah,

Google Parryton, Texas and look at their pictures etc. they have their own web site. It is in the panhandle of Texas and will be near the new equator if this happens. It is out in the boonies for sure. It is two hours from the nearest big city of Amarillo. In Texas if you are buying fee simple agricultural land there are no restrictions like that.

To survive a geologic event you look at geologic history. The drop off of the west is do to two things--the force of the Pacific ocean with 1000 foot tsunamis and the pre existence of the tectonic faults plate lines to begin with. This far north you have the 600 miles of land and cities to act as baffles. Plus the Gulf of Mexico by its shape allow flooding and undulation but not 1000 foot tsunamis. This land appeared to survive in the past and has layers of dirt deposited from literally being dumped from the skies. There is no target to tactically nuke. TPTB if they survive from their holes will want this land for food in the future.

I am not committed to Parryton. But I know Texas law pretty well and that is important. I also know their thinking on a whole. People up in that area live and let live on a whole. Highly independent and stoic. Home schoolers and Bible Belt but not prostelitizers like the big mega churches in the big towns. I looked first where could I survive if I do this on my own. I found I could rent a 3 br house in that area for 500 a month but of course there are only two for rent. Very little if any apartments. None came up on my search. Of the 26 counties in the panhandle at least 10 have nothing listed for sale.

Oklahoma is the reddest state in the union. They hate their own Indians. They still do blood feuds. They are cheaper than Texas but who needs the added aggravation. Texas is enough cultural shock. It saving grace is they will leave you alone if you don't get in their face. Getting further North you don't know how the Great Lakes will empty. Nor what the Mississippi or Missouri will do.

If this geologic event happens the US will probably no longer be the US. How that all plays out is infinite speculation. In the boonies, it will be survive or die on your own. Texas is not where you go for a helping hand. The US census says Texas is 49 for per capita state and local taxes averaging $ 1, 434. Their medicaid budget is 7.3% and the average for most states is 21.8. Texas is now planning on totally eliminating medicaid.

The air is clear. You will have your own well and septic system. You eat healthy and you exercise regularly by working. If you have a united happy spirit you live well and die a natural death in a natural life span. You don't do convalescent hospital. But I think all those things pass with this change I can really feel.

This ranch that I found of 20 acreas, a house and a barn for 197,000 is doable. It is a threebedroom, 2 BR home. Really huge living room and big kitchen. 20 by 20 reinforced basement for the tornadoes. It is big enough to allow community living while we build our earth homes. If things stay the same it will make a good community center and guest place. It gives us the time and place and space to do the rest. What I believe is that when we are ready to do this, the universe will manifest the place for us. But some properties like this have been on the market for 18 months so far. They aren't big enough to make the traditional living ranching and Texans are the least imaginative people I run into. It is the same old, same old. they dominate the land, they don't work with it.

Next the cover story/vision

In many ways, my big gift is my many failures and knowing why. And by failing I am free to pick myself up and start over and not be tied to the land that is going.

[doodah]

Personal experience: Oklahoma? No thanks. Oklahoma is the scariest place I've ever seen. I have a very strong ability to read energies of place, but some of the places I really love may be problematic if things shift.

So this 20 acres, we could build Earth ships there and not be bothered? Is this the place where the buy-in would be $1700 or something down payment for each person? What's the rainfall like? [just in case you happen to know; I can look it up...]

Thanks w4c

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Fascinating topic. Thanks for starting it.

I think it is natural to desire a Utopian living ideal. In my case, I have a deep need for belonging, acceptance, contribution, freedom, and security. I consider this one of my vulnerabilities, so I am always on the lookout for anything that might try to leverage that vulnerability.

I live in Northern California in Marin County and have family in Siskiyou County, so I have been exposed to some communal projects, though I have never participated. What I have seen has made me steer clear of them. It seems like one of two things happen with these groups. Either they are formed around a single leader or around a group democracy ideal.

In the case of a single leader, there seem to always be members of the group competing with each other for position in relation to this leader. In the case of democracy, alliances form to try to gain power over others and force their beliefs onto them. Example: the Vegans demand that the vegetarians stop eating cheese. There also always seem to be those willing to let others do the work and use the situation to avoid growing up rather than explore high concepts of community living. It also always seems that drugs end up in the mix somewhere and tend to be a negative factor.

I always feel like the end result is no different than the world they were trying to get away from. Sorry if I sound overly negative. This is just the impression that I have gotten from the position of an outside observer.

I am reminded of Winston Churchill when he said "Democracy is the worst form of government, excepting all others that have been tried." I believe that the human species can find a political and economic system that reflects and encourages an enlightened populace, but maybe we have to grow up first. I certainly want to see it happen and be part of it. Goodness knows that what we have now sure leaves me cold.

[write4change]

WhiskeyMystic,

Interesting paradox right there? What you observe does usually happen. The leader kind because they usually own the land or have the most assets. The second kind because they never really started from scratch, never considered all the ramifications of doing so, and third never contractually addressed the issues. To make this work, you have to abide by the legal system in place now. To do this everyone comes to the plate with their down payment in this case we are right now projecting no less than 1700 dollars. Thus, everyone has an equal financial stake. The next thing before you ever go to a limited liability corporation you draw up the mission statement, the by laws and the detailed plan of how the mission statement will be implemented. Thus, there are no hidden agendas and everyone knows what they signed up for. This is essentially what they did in Muerietta Hot Springs and that lasted 30 years until they got an offer to sell out they could not resist---everyone walked away with at least a million.

[Franny]

Posted by modwiz (here)
Write4change has requested that I post this website for your perusal and possible delight. I have not had a chance to dig in but as a meal it looks extremely palatable.

http://calearth.org/

Enjoy

I've been there and it's very worth your time. The houses are comfortable and efficient. When we had the last fire here I had decided that if my place burnt down I would replace it with one of these. The last time I checked it cost about $10,000 US to build the 400 sq ft model, but may have gone up since.

[9eagle9]

I'll be the first to admit I don't do a whole lot legally. Or at least not the satisfaction of the PTB. Legal is THEIR laws. Mind you I don't encourage people to do anything legal or illegal. Both are the same. Its simply a another matrix mind trap.

That's why my woodstoves aren't installed. I tried to be temperate and legal and it bit me in the ass. Because that system from the township level up is nothing but corrupt on a personal level and a organized level. If our system wasn't awash in corruption we'd not be here talking about getting away from it. I got off the hook only by smarts, deception, and cornering the little busy body rat fink contractor that narked me out for violation and making clear he understood that if he were going to play games he better make sure he better be more clever than I at playing them.

He wasn't. Because he's still a mind slave to the system. And the ego that keeps us there. All I had to do was not agree with him about elevation and off went that manly ego and he was going to bring my ass down. That's what he said based on what I said, not what I did. And that's what is beef was based on, my non agreement with his worldview about elevation. I won't tell you what the real issue was going on there it ad nothing to do with elevation or even construction.

Suddenly the 'thought' of violating the elevation is a legal matter that he must busily involve himself in. Just the merest whisper that you might not go along their plan.They stampede, they panic and they pull the trigger too fast. That's when they rush off to dig their own grave. You get to put the last shovel full on if you keep your head on straight.

How do you violate elevation. The same way you fight the war on terror.

Most of our PTB are like that. How can they say you are illegal when their system is rotten and blatantly corrupt from the inside out. He ended up digging his own grave, and now the township thinks he's a lying assbag and don't take any of his violation tattle telling seriously. He screwed them out of a serious fine that no doubt he would have got a kick back from, because he tried to make the situation fearful, threatening and extortionist and based on his manly man ego. He made it personal. This isn't personal, its supposed to be government--impartial. Is a damned woodstove, its freedom. From them, from everything.

So in a balancing universe that turned out all right because i have a sort of immunity now. From the township anyway. If I don't react they'll go blundering over the cliff themselves because they are sheep. I know . Used to be one myself. I know how sheep behave.

They are in slave mentality mode. Stop thinking like a slave and one doesn't have to pay like one.

They'll permit you to death once you open the door. Statutes the PTB don't even abide by ...and they can't even substantiate. It depends on how well one's understanding of UCC code is. How the whole racket is set up because its a racket. Yet we are in violation? We are unlawful. Make me laugh.

When I meant off grid I mean off grid not just the power companies, and food suppliers and medical professions. . I couldn't buy a windmill immediately but I could stop paying for the privilege of being a slave so that I could actually keep enough of what was mine to begin with so I could in fact one day purchase a windmill.

If I kept with the legal pay game, I'd never have been able to accomplish what I have so far, I'd still be in slave mentality mode.. Granted it takes some forethought of how the system works so when the system comes knocking ( in a deviant and unlawful fashion themselves ) you know what to say and do so you aren't paying them off , once again, to be a slave to the system. Which is part of the grid. The grid is only in place because we keep paying for it to be there.

I haven't been cited or ticketed for 20 years at least. Was I legal that whole time? No I just wasn't pre guilty. Alot of how we cross the law is how we are vibrating on the inside.

But I told myself if you continue this travesty you will simply be paying them off so they will leave you alone and I couldn't live with that in myself. That's what criminals do. They give a payoff of based on fear extortion. I'm not a criminal, I don't want to become them. So I have to stop behaving like them.

But there's no lack of knowledge out there how to circumvent 'pay to be a slave.' First do nothing. Its the first moment the fine, the lein, the levy, the permit violation, the foreclosure is mentioned that we stampede and run into the trap. If they don't get you in the first ten minutes after presenting 'thier facts' they know they never will.

Nope no lack of knowledge out there. If my right brain can understand that stuff someone else left brain can understand it better than I. We just know intuitively this **** is wrong. They depend on our fear and our ignorance, and I wouldn't tell people about this if I didn't know it to be true for myself. The things I cut immediately were the great matrix consumer traps which is extortion thinly veiled by a statue or a code. If i don't get rid of slave mentality on ground level one, inside of me, I had to disconnect from the grid internally,before I did it externally. The fear grid inside.


What I cut was the great cons. ALL insurances. I have burial fund prepaid just in case to burn me when I go. If someone wants to take me out to their back forty and pyre me , I'll sign the policy over to you. I don't care what happens to me carcass (just don't do anything to it you wouldn't do to it when I was living

And the great unmentionables.

My income is 3/4 disposable now with some other shaving. 60 percent recovery of funds that I used to pay out to remain below the radar. I'm still below the radar.

You can't do this feeling guilty though.Or that you're doing something wrong. We aren't. Yes its a risk and its scary sometimes but balls to the wall is where the real freedom is. I can't externally be off grid when internally I still am.

If you stay in the system learn to work it to your advantage. Get your minsters credentials, file your standing with the state and set up a Non profit corp. Churches don't pay what? Let me here you brothers and sisters. WHAT? What don't churches pay?

Don't say it you'll incriminate yourself.

[write4change]

Eagle,

I think any body who has had true agricultural ranked property knows exactly what you are talking about. Legally in California you can elevate three feet and dig down three feet without a permit. All pipes must be laid four feet--thus, permit. All of this is recent. Thus, grandfathering. All of this can be manipulated. It is all based on who the local powers are and how they feel about. On top of that today you need to find out when the satellite for your area flies over and how long between times.

It can really cost almost nothing to build these earthships that was the point. It is the permits that cost. I think they were originally designed for dirt only and then got so you had to add so much cement to the mix. One of the things I want is compost toilets which I have to admit I have only read about. But those people far enough out to get to use them swear by them. I have layers of plans about these depending on what evolves.

I built by the book in Texas because it was simple and coming from California did not seem that expensive and I was in a different place. I moved back to California in 95. Neither my husband nor I had ever owned really agricultural property. What was great about it was it closeness and yet, other world feeling. It was a gift from the universe to learn all this. I was in a canyon and thus, nothing was visible to anyone but from the road which was maybe 2 or 3 hundred feet at most.

But I was excellent at what I did---training and competing in hunter jumpers. This was horse country, the jealousy that you can provoke.......

My ability to imaginatively create out of almost nothing....... invention convention

Even wanting to give it all away in perpetuity made me a bigger threat. TPTB anywhere now do not want the public to have access to anything they value---horses, swimming, experiences. I had one official say to my face you want to give these kids more than I can afford to give my kids.

My property in Bouquet Canyon was once owned by Universal Studios. It had been owned by the same family since the 50s and almost nothing done to it since 65. It cost me 10,000 to initially remove all the garbage that never existed before I bought it. LOL I had pine needles three feet deep in some places. An incredible fire hazard but there were no inspections on the "old" family. After I bought it every anything with a code and ability to fine and access was on the property within 30 days.

So I know what you are talking about in big financial terms. By the time I really understood how all this worked--it was too late to save myself. So I partnered up with a pillar of the community to serve at risk teens. 32 days later I was found bleeding on my front lawn. I awoke in the ER with no memory probably the universe's way of saving my life. I think I had been beaten nearly to death. The story that was told to everyone is my ten year old perfectly trained dressage horse had escaped from the barn, found me on the front lawn, kicked me in the face and stomped all over me. When I wasn't cooking on all cylinders I like everyone else accepted it. None of these people know dip about horses. A horse might kick you in the face out of fear but once you are down they don't stomp all over you. A horse is a flight animal not an attack animal. Once you are down they are gone. I had compressed fractures in my legs and broken ribs.

Since my partner was a PTB no questions were asked. As my senses slowly returned and I began to think and then understand, I moved to the hood of LA with no forwarding address. I just wasted my last 100,000 trying to prove fraud and from that learned how really corrupt the legal system is. My partner said I sold him a 1.5 million dollar property for the mortgage of 500,000. He took a lot of personal things even my husband's and daughter's ashes which I was saving to mix with mine and have put into one replacement coral reefs they are making. The reason he was so mean and took things that would upset me --- was to try and make me crazy and assure I had nothing of value to fight him with. As it was we were in court two years.

I learned for sure how to let go of everything.....stuff, revenge, etc. I have only love of the planet and good people left. I can only do this for the right reasons.

This is a guy personal friends with celebrities and media. He is highly integrated into the LAUSD and gets paid lots of money to "treat" kid drug addicts. His entire resume was a fraud and he only has a high school education and maybe not even a license. So you get the picture--all of this I dug up on my own---my lawyer did zip. On top of that the judge ruled almost everything inadmissible. they do this when they are sure they can bleed you dry and you will not be able to appeal due to time and money. I found this done to other people. Absolute flagrant violation of the law that people are simply not expecting. The honest ones think you go to court and present the preponderous of evidence and justice prevails. Wrong.

Wade Frazier wrote you are not a contender unless someone has tried to kill you or offer you a billion. I was too small a potatoes to be bought out and my land was too valuable not to be stolen. The property was A2, 5 houses with the main house built in the 30s, 3000+ square feet--7 BR and 3BA, two living areas and a stunningly beautiful library. Also a pool with solar heating, a tennis court, 11 out building, 5 barns all backed up to the Los Angeles National Forrest and infinite trails. I was 8 miles from Magic Mountain and College of the Canyons, etc. I had 50foot pines. It was beautiful, I loved it. I did right by it. I think it is all going in the sea if I lived there I would be like the dolphins and just meditate the whole thing. Instead I lived a whole life through so I could do this.

So you have a lot of information I can use or we can use. I think you have a chance where you are as much as we do if we go to Parryton. But you can certainly be one of our guides. We will be allusive to this stuff til we get the need for more specifics. There is so much to everyone's stories and experience. This is how I approach this---do whatever it takes to deal with the PTB---only do it ethically and morally in relation to the common people, the community you belong to, and the earth you are in service to.

[mymoonlightshines]

Posted by modwiz (here)

Freedom is both a simple and complex subject. In the communities of the future telepathy will be more and more part of things. This then addresses the need for alignment in vision of the community, just as all the cells of an organ must be on the same page or trouble results. A meditation of the deeper aspects of this might intrude on what people feel is the freedom to think whatever they want. Yes, that freedom must exist but people of with more unique or culture specific concepts will probably need to establish their own little utopias.

As write4change has so aptly elucidated in her postings, one of the biggest problems with these communities lies with people who are looking for freedom from work, freedom from contribution and responsibility for the welfare of the whole.

With freedom comes great responsibility and emotional maturity. This dearth of such in society at large is very much responsible for the mess we find ourselves in and have found ourselves in for many long years. People willing to give up almost every freedom to a daddy overgroup so they can myopically focus on their own personal needs without concern for the whole.

There needs to be an aristocracy of some sorts. It needs to be small and in symbiosis with the rest of the group. The queen of a beehive is an absolute necessity but her own children are also the workers and artisans.

Freedom calls many, if not most. Screening will be crucial to success.

Sober thoughts to balance the intoxication of liberty.

Modwiz

Yes! I agree with all of it. In order for a community as such to be successful there must be an alignment in values as well. Thank you for your insight

[doodah]

9eagle, I just have to say how much I enjoyed your post. I, too, have not got my woodstove installed. Here, they sort of say you can do this yourself but they won't tell you what the code requirements are except that you need a permit. You have to have it inspected afterward but they won't approve your plans beforehand to be sure you're going to do it right. The fire department people tell you one thing and the building code inspector tells you something contradictory. It all comes down to they really do not want you to do it yourself. They want you to hire a contractor and increase the cost by thousands of dollars.

You also need a permit for a composting toilet where I live, a thing that has absolutely no environmental impact.

The legal system is theirs. The laws are written to support whatever their goals are. A corporation has personhood under the law. Are you kidding me? What an absurdity. God bless Ecuador, which has passed a constitutional amendment giving Nature personhood as well, the only country to do such a thing. They did this in an effort to protect natural reserves which have oil fields underneath them, to be able to assert the rights of Nature to prevent corporations from drilling. I stay as far away from the law as I possibly can, just as I stay away from doctors. Healers are another matter, I don't mind consulting them. Although, of course, w4c, you'd maybe not be here without the doctors. I guess there are times you need them. What a horrible story! Your life is reading like a movie, or maybe like Candide.

[mymoonlightshines]

Posted by write4change (here)
.


In many ways, my big gift is my many failures and knowing why. And by failing I am free to pick myself up and start over and not be tied to the land that is going.

I have read and reread most or your posts and I have to say that I feel like you are brilliant, and I am attentively taking mental notes on all your insights. I have a very strong vision to create a community such as the one you speak of. My brother Randy and I have been talking about this for 10 plus years (we were both lucky enough to have grown up in a home where we were encouraged to think). About 5 years ago my brother explained to me that he is quiting his job and moving to my parents property to learn how to live off the land. He has spent the last 5 years learning organic gardening and things of this nature. It is hard for people to understand and the immediate reaction is that he lives off my parents but its quite the contrary. My brother and I have discussed the potential that we may have to prepare, not only for ourselves but for our family as well and I feel like its upon us. Fortunately for us we have many contributing members. My brother has a great deal of knowledge on gardening, the use of a root cellar (he is currently in the process of building), canning as well among other strengths. My father is a geotech now, which means he is our designer and he is also brilliant. My mother is extremely resourceful; kind of like you, although she does not get me ( she doesn't even know half the stuff I think about ) she will come around I am sure. Then theres my boyfriend who is a strapping young lad if I may say 6'4'' 220 (and super good looking lol) he is phenomenal with spacial relationships and building things. I have 4 boys ages 6 mo. 6, 8 and 9. They all know how to work and contribute and are usually willing to do so (aside from the baby). There are people from my boyfriends family that are not as likely to contribute and this is something I struggle with. How to build in fails safe boundaries so that everyone is contributing to their best potential and no one bears too much of the burdon? Also we would need some more girls in the worst case scenario.

We have talked about staying in the northwest although somehow I feel like this is not smart. I am waiting for some conformation on this, I have been doing research and if coastlines change well...

Thank you again for this thread and for pouring your soul into it
kamarie

[9eagle9]

With the understanding I'm a chicken herder not a poultry specialist, I've only been doing this about 18 months I'll stick out there something everyone can do mostly. A lot of people are doing this in the city too. And its fun.


Chickens….

I can’t eat mine because they are spoiled cherished babies. My babies. 'Scuse me ‘precious’ babies. My big girls…But some people can. I can’t. If one dies by natural causes that’s different. Their entertainment value exceeds anything around here.

Chickens are a very valuable totem. Not hip of course like panthers or bears but they teach how to live in community while still maintaining personal space. I have adopted them as a personal totem. They peck and scratch and bicker but are for the most part peaceable and do well together. Which emphasizes community. We'll always have issues but at the end of the day we'll roost peacefully together.

When well provided for they don’t cannibalize or get stressed out. I had to cull the rooster because he was not a good rooster. He was abusive and demanding and didn’t take care of his girls. He piled eight of them in a corner of the coop and tried to hump them all that the same time. They stopped laying, lost feathers, were getting sick and stressed. So I removed him. *yes that means what you think it means* And if you have a man pestering or imposing on you in a sexually threatening way , cut a roosters head off in front of them. Look them in the eye when you do it, (the man, not the rooster) You will never have another problem with that sort of energy again.

A good rooster will warn of danger, and be close to his hens. He will also go out and forage and bring things back for them to eat. The hens should be better off for him, not stressed and bald.

If I want natural originated babies I will attempt another rooster. For now I am content with picking the chicks up for a 1.00 a piece at the local feed store in the spring, they are pre culled so I know I’m getting pullets. I raise them to a certain size , and until they can maintain their own temperature, in my spare bathroom bathtub. (yes its messy) When they are feathered in well I put them in a heat lamp in the workshop in a separate coop from the rest of the older flock. By that time the weather is warmer so I don’t have to worry about their temp. Then when the rest of the flock is content and scratching around outside is when I introduce the little ones to the big ones so reducing the chances of aggression.

I allow mine into the garden for brief periods of time and let them to nibble on whats in there but direct them to the destructive bugs more. Have to keep an eye on them so they don’t stripe down the tomato plants (they are crazy about tomatoes) Earwigs, mice, all manner of pests. They took out the mice and chipmunks that were raiding their feed bins. They are a vicious lot when it comes to pests. Chickens aren’t chicken. Watching a chicken hunt is hugely entertaining. They hunt in a pack and will all attack a ‘predator’ at once.and then fight over the body even as the predator is still squealing. Hen party, girl fight. If the predator is too much for them they’ll bugle and I’ll come running to carry off a turtle or something of that nature that has invaded their turf and offended them. They have me very well trained.

They come out of the coop and gather around me and chatter and gossip, and inspect me and pull on the fringe of my boots. And accuse. I have a puritan in there that chastises me 'aawwwwwwwwww' in this accusatory tone. They are very chatty. Very good company. I will confess I will diaper a few of them and bring them into my living quarters. They are shameless critics and want to know why I don't have straw on my floor and a place to roost. If yo have edibles out they will help themselves. Or poop in them.

Costs me 8 bucks to feed a month till I can grow me own feed but they eat a lot from my own kitchen, vegetable scraps . Nothing goes bad here, the chickens get it. The wild birds or deer clean up the feed that gets scattered as well so there’s no waste.

The coop was installed inside my workshop. A three sided frame to which the boards where attached. The fourth wall was the workshop wall where the door was so I could let them out into the yard. Essentially a chicken walk in closet. If anything threatened them they could run back in. I had an access door to allow myself into the coop via the inside. Then on the outside I installed 6 foot wire fence around the 2nd floor deck posts for when I want to keep them relatively contained. The deck above shelters them. The posts to the deck were just there so I used them. About one of the least labor intensive projects ever, a 30 foot by 15 foot run.

I let them out to free range during the day when I’m out there with them.

Make agreements with the local predators not to eat your hens. It works. Brother Hawk no longer does fly overs after we had a serious discussion about the flyovers.

I have a small flock, eight hens so I get eight eggs a day , year round. Sometimes someone in there is intrepid and lays two eggs in a day….lol.

Cept for molting. Egg production falls off or ceases altogether when they start molting. I support their molting time by feeding them raw liver and cottage cheese , extra protein makes it a shorter duration . Cottage cheese feedings are hilarious. So is tomato soccer . They love mashed potatoes too with butter. Were a bit dubious about avacodoes. They have decided preferences. Cottage cheese drives them wild. Apples are okay, they'll eat them but its not a feeding frenzy. If I'm wanting to gift someone a little something a couple of carton of eggs does the trick when your on the fly. Two cartons of eggs can equate a hundred dollar hair cut by a swanky pro. I barter eggs for things like that. THEY offer, not me. Its worth it to them. Love eggs taste better, and if you haven't noticed by now I LOVE my girls.


Eggs can be stored on the counter for several weeks without refrigeration, it’s when you pasteurize them they have to be refrigerated. Or wash them. Don’t ever wash eggs, unless you plan to use them right away. they come out of the butt pre sealed against bacteria. . If you get a dirty egg wait and wash it right before you crack it. Ideal food for no refrigeration or no power conditions. I put the shells back into their feed. I grind them up really well so they don't the idea they can eat their own eggs.

The hens provide natural fertilizer. If I use wood shavings for their coop, that will compost in as well.


When my store of eggs gets to be too much, I will be dehydrating them this year for future emergency use. YOu don't need a dehydrator to do this. You can freeze them too yolks and whites. Eggs have become a source of gifting, currency and barter for me.

For those who go the chicken for meat route, I suggest you don’t get emo attached like I do.

Get hard coat (feathered )chickens they are easier to pluck. You don’t have a bunch of downy fluffy fluff that gets all over the place. Grab by the neck and flip over your wrist, their dead. Takes one second. Cut the head off (a nice sharp heavy butcher block style knife is your friend). Bleed out, plunge into boiling water and feathers just peel off. Some people who aren’t interested in the skin, skin their chickens. Chickens WILL run with their heads cut off. Worse they will try to fly. It is horrifying and traumatic to watch a headless chicken take to the air. It's surreal. Be prepared. If they know they are about to go they will 'cry'. This is heartbreaking. Be prepared.

Once a chicken is dead the tension leaves its body and its pretty easy to pluck even without boiling.

I use thyme and other natural antibiotics in their water, but for the most part you don’t have to if you take care of them and love them. My chickens never get sick. I also let them raid the herb garden for short periods of time, they know what they need.

They are very sturdy in spite of their delicacy. A coyote or perhaps a fox got hold of one of my girls last summer. She managed to get away (via my agreements with the land) but most of her back skin was gone down to the flesh. I poulticed her up with plantain. And within a week she was healed up and out of danger.

In the nature of conscious harvesting, like when I had to kill the rooster …his claws, and spurs are honored on the side of the barn along with his wings. I buried a portion of him in my medicine wheel with thanks, his carcass was way too tough for me to tackle went into the woods to feed the critters. His bones are in my medicine lodge. Honor everything and it will return the favor.

The first eggs my chickens produced went to the medicine wheel or back somehow for gratitude . I make it a point especially at this time of year to have an egg (fertility) honor. The land will keep you safe and protect you and yours from harm when you honor it. Doesn't' take long, nothing elaborate or ritualistic is necessary.

I have tried ornamentals like Polish Hens. I wouldn't have attempted this but i took them in as strays. Unfortunately are not good for free ranging. They can't hear or see well due to the fact they have a fluffy lampshade on their head. They will get lost just yards from their roost. I've tracked more lost ornamentals then I care to talk about. Will try guinea hens. They make good watch dogs. Nothing can come on the property unannounced. They are amusing too especially if you have roosters and watch the roosters steal each others hens. I've watched a flock of guinea roosters walk down from the neighboring farm , right down the road, to steal my uncles hens. There's a face off, sort of like an argument with my uncle's roosters that lost. Then by some unspoken agreement all the hens left and walked down the road with the invading roosters. Who needs tv.

I'd upload a photo of one them admiring herself in the mirror (they are vain as hell) when I figure it out the image posting.

[9eagle9]

W4C,

I would love to take what you posted about elevation and send it to the contractor. You have expressed yourself to know 120 percent way more than our local 'expert.'

When he spoke of elevation he was referring to the fact that my living area inside the home is three feet higher than the rest of the living quarters It's elevated. The entirely of the living quarters is on the second flooor. Nothing to do with elevation as we know it. And he knew that even as I was weighing that in my head. Elevation? Huh? HUHHHH? I mean I can't make the connection. Instead of saying ,Dude your numb, I shrugged it off and said, I disagree. There was one ego present, I didn't figure adding mine would make it better.


Again. Who needs tv? And these stories on here are way better for their reality in spite of some of the hardships surrounding them.

[write4change]

Oh eagle,

Those were great stories. I had such a laugh and it feels so good. Some of what you wrote I know. I did not know about the freezing and dehydrating.. I will eventually get back to you on that. Soon we will do an animal thread and I will write about our Rooster Winston. My daughter wrote a book about him. One of the things my grandmother did when plucking her chickens was use a candle on the pin feathers.

Your stories about your contractors are so right on. They are all about money. In LA some of these jobs are also about nepotism and they have some young kids right out of school who know nothing about reality---but they have the huge teenage ego and are not into listening at all. I had to hire a man who used to work in the department who now makes a ton of money as a "consultant" to speak to them on my behalf. Sound familiar.
Even if I didn't say anything you could feel the steam coming out of my ears. So it was the only thing for me to do.

The chickens I raised were exotics just because I found them beautiful and funny. It was the guineas that ruled. BTW, I can "buck buck" just like a guinea. That is how I learned to call them. I could call my raccoon also and she lived free and came when I called. Raccoons "ooo oot" My basinjis played with the deer fawns and they would alternate chasing each other.

When I start the animal thread it will be about Yoda my gentle gray lemur.

You are contributing much. Eventually, we may print this out and have a book. Avalon's first book. I see that as part of the process.

[9eagle9]

At W4C


It can really cost almost nothing to build these earthships that was the point. It is the permits that cost. I think they were originally designed for dirt only and then got so you had to add so much cement to the mix. One of the things I want is compost toilets which I have to admit I have only read about. But those people far enough out to get to use them swear by them. I have layers of plans about these depending on what evolves.

As the days past I'll drudge up some stuff I have some files about self composting toilets you can make at home. Some are simple and some are rather cunning but complex. I have a photo someone made of one used with a regular toilet and a box underneath it. There was a waste oil catch pan attached that had the composting material in it. I'm very interested in a earth ship. I wouldn't have a problem with the land owner erecting one here if we make certain future agreements. I would most likely attempt to put one up for animals first. My costs come from attempting to convert a pre existing structure. An earth ship I'd just build in the fireplaces and the whole wood stove drama would go away...lol.

But I was excellent at what I did---training and competing in hunter jumpers. This was horse country, the jealousy that you can provoke.......


I've been there. Rampant to the point of nauseating even in 4H where everything is political now, based on who has the most expensive taste in tack and premium horses. The kids couldn't ride worth a ****, the horses were unruly and untrained. No ground manners even. Even people who weren't familiar with the concept noticed how sloppy everything was. But inevitably they took home the prizes while the girls with the grade horses who out performed in all ways in spite of their second hand saddles were always overlooked. Interestingly enough the winners had parents who invested lots of contributions int 4H. I won't go into the drama of the hunter barns,, I started at the best in the area and it was bad. Everyplace after that was worse...lol. . At the best I was breaking up fights in the tack room between grown men fighting over panty hose , and the worst was the owners drunk boyfriend threatening to beat me and the horse if I couldn't fit a pony bridle on a 2000 pound warmblood. 'Not ready to go back there soon. Not the people issues anyway . It became all about people and less about what we were there for. I'd like to flame around the net and see what happened to some of my four footers where they ended up at.



After I bought it every anything with a code and ability to fine and access was on the property within 30 days.

Typical.

32 days later I was found bleeding on my front lawn. I awoke in the ER with no memory probably the universe's way of saving my life. I think I had been beaten nearly to death. The story that was told to everyone is my ten year old perfectly trained dressage horse had escaped from the barn, found me on the front lawn, kicked me in the face and stomped all over me.

I suppose he saddled himself up too before leaving the barn? Put his polo wraps on before he stomped all over you?

When I wasn't cooking on all cylinders I like everyone else accepted it. None of these people know dip about horses. A horse might kick you in the face out of fear but once you are down they don't stomp all over you.

No. I've never seen a well trained dressage horse act like that even under duress let alone mosy out of the barn and go on a rampage. It teaches grace under pressure. An escape from a barn is hardly pressure. My horses got out of the barn it was like Jail Break! Let's go to the garden, lets go find mares, lets make her chase after us! Let's play! Yeah we can eat the lawn! They never said Let's go find her and stomp all over her...lol. The PTB depend on public ignorance and all the un equestrian public hears is how unpredictable they are. They try to smear everything with television drama. Watching lord of the rings and the Shadowfax horse comes sweeping dramatically over the hill as Gandalf explains he's never been ridden or bridled or saddled or something. Yet the horse approaches with a clear and apparent sweat mark on its chest. Good job for a horse that's never been saddled. How did the martingagle that left the sweat mark stay on? I'm a kill joy I know. But that's how we stay sane noticing stuff like that....KNOWING even when all evidence suggest otherwise.

Since my partner was a PTB no questions were asked. As my senses slowly returned and I began to think and then understand, I moved to the hood of LA with no forwarding address. I just wasted my last 100,000 trying to prove fraud and from that learned how really corrupt the legal system is. My partner said I sold him a 1.5 million dollar property for the mortgage of 500,000. He took a lot of personal things even my husband's and daughter's ashes which I was saving to mix with mine and have put into one replacement coral reefs they are making. The reason he was so mean and took things that would upset me --- was to try and make me crazy and assure I had nothing of value to fight him with. As it was we were in court two years.

I have had relationship with similar , two. If you don't tell them your issues they are cunning at finding your buttons and pushing them. Not out of entitlement, those people are not content with anything less than obliteration. They want to destroy you. My exhusband was bad, the relationship i got into after was worse. But essentially the same thing. But the marriage. That's what I did. Just walked and let it go. All go . All assets, not a penny did I want. Took me years to get back on my feet again an I don't regret one moment of it. Ain't taking the bait. Eventually he got the judge to order to me to live closer. So ..I moved in at the foot of his driveway. (Grin) . Doodah noted above earlier about being nice and the lack of it. I'm kind and I'm generous but I'm not nice. Course he's losing the house now due to his greed and rebound, and it looks like miniature slum. The relationship after that he deliberately kept things that were of a sentimental nature. He dangles them over my head periodically waiting for me to leap for them. But I won't. That's how they get you back into the game again.


Wade Frazier wrote you are not a contender unless someone has tried to kill you or offer you a billion. I was too small a potatoes to be bought out and my land was too valuable not to be stolen. The property was A2, 5 houses with the main house built in the 30s, 3000+ square feet--7 BR and 3BA, two living areas and a stunningly beautiful library. Also a pool with solar heating, a tennis court, 11 out building, 5 barns all backed up to the Los Angeles National Forrest and infinite trails. I was 8 miles from Magic Mountain and College of the Canyons, etc. I had 50foot pines. It was beautiful, I

I loved mine too. I see it every day though...lol. My property line unfortunately for the ex ends directly in the back of his house. I loved it all not quite as fancy as yours but to a kid that came from dirt literally (farming )having never lived in a house over 12sq feet that was like a dream come true. An estate, pool, pool house, sunken hot tub. I didn't have my priorities straight of course but that experience of money and all that fancy home helped me to get them straight. Unhappy home to say the least. But the intimacy I developed with the land was enduring. It wasn't a court order that brought me back here the land did. I'd anchored myself then, and there wasn't a court or an ex husband that could overide that.


I think you have a chance where you are as much as we do if we go to Parryton.

Oh I do. I'm in my environment. I'm not concerned with the Great Lakes, simply if that was a threat I wouldn't be here. Realistically if an event like that were to occur, I can't really see it effecting much more than Lake Michigan. Maybe a short term event. They would reclaim themselves fairly quickly. And I don't know they haven't been draining them off for years now covertly. The water has receded much more than cycles can account for. Someone asked me if the lockes at the Soo could be shut to prevent Huron from spilling into Michigan and getting sucked south. An interesting question. A locke is nothing but a dam. Dunno gonna check it out. At any rate Michigan has and will be a safe state because of the proximity of the lakes which tend to take on a buffer effect. We don't have the terrain for mudslides, the forests don't over fire like they used to, not much in the way of floods even though Michigan is really just a huge swamp and sand pit with a high water table to begin with. Very odd we should have more than what we experience due to the peculiar geo structure but we don't.

I loved Texas I spent a few weeks there a few years back It was like being on a different planet. People were much politer. Kinder. It was disconcerting for me to find a man sleeping outside my room . I tripped over him when I left my motel room . He wanted to tell me he thought I would make a good ex wife. If that happened up here I'd be howling in outrage. Down there it was funny because there was no malicious intent. Weird yes, malicious no. It was good for me to experience the less lethal side of life.There's pockets of very metaphyiscal places down there. Like Wimberly visit it and the river there if you haven't and get the chance. And the land itself is just haunted with spirits. The roam all over. Seen war ponies running up and down the highway that weren't there. I had considered moving there and had it on my short list but I'll put that out there as if it happens it happens.

[wolf_rt]

Well I'm hoping to get my thoughts in better order as i write this, forgive me if i ramble.
I don't have any personal experience with 'Utopian' living but i have known for a long time that this is where we as humanity must go, willingly or not.


I watched the new 'Zeitgeist moving forward' movie the other day, and i must say i have become deeply troubled in the following days.
Not while i was watching, but during the following day, i came to believe very strongly that the world view sold in 'Zeitgeist moving forward' Is actually Agenda 21 looked at from a different angle.

This is extremely disturbing for me, if the movement toward living in harmony with nature is taken over by the movement to lift nature above us as god(Agenda 21) much is lost.....

The Synchronicity of the AI in the Zeitgeist movie to recent talk here is odd.

If we wish to neither destroy nature or ourselves, living WITH AND IN Nature is the only viable solution. Elevating Nature above us will lead to catastrophe just as surely as elevating ourselves above nature.

It is not technology that has lead us to this precipice it is our perception of technology that is at fault.
We cannot remove ourselves from nature with technology!

I'm as much a inseparable part of nature sitting here on my computer in my house, in my city as a person living in the Amazon rain forest, or a person in a space station/ship. Or for that matter a person in a dome city eating food grown in 90 story skyscrapers (aka agenda 21)

The authors of Agenda 21 and the authors of the Zeitgeist Video and the authors of social change in the last 200 years have all missed this point...

We are a part of nature weather you like it or not!

Sorry if I'm belaboring my point here, but this just seems crucial to me.

I do not see the movement to sustainable living as something for individual survivalist 'communities' this is something the whole world needs to do, and can do, with no loss of life required.

I see that many of the problems that plague 'Utopian' communities stem from money/ownership, and leadership. not suprising..

I believe i may have a solution. (I really, really hope i have or can come up with a solution!)

Every adult family gets 1 Hectare of farmable land.

These blocks could be arranged into Communities... Or not... depending on the preference of the family.

These blocks and the produce grown on them are NOT taxed, in any way.

The residents of the blocks have full title to the blocks

The blocks are available to any person or group of people who declare themselves a family unit.

I imagine that you would be expected to live on your block or pass it on to somebody who will.

All the food required to feed a family can be grown in this space. (If you don't build a Mansion on it)

These blocks would not be connected to utilities of any kind. (Perhaps telecommunications if a individual or community was willing to pay for the connection)

Individual Composting toilets would be mandatory, inspections welcome.


There are many very good reasons that governments would be willing to consider this.

1. They don't have a better plan...lol
2. the people who would be attracted to this lifestyle are poor consumers.
3. These people are taking up jobs that other people could have, hence reducing unemployment.
4. Any money received by these individuals for fresh produce, is likely to flow immediately back into the local (conventional)community for labor and services, stimulating the local, and hence national economy.
5. Anybody who eats the produce that has been grown with love is far less likely to become sick, lowering the burden on hospitals, and increasing productivity.
6. People would be willing to rehabilitate depleted farmland, that is in danger of becoming completely destroyed.
7. Freeing up existing housing will lower rental prices, in a time when the poor most need it.
8. Governments KNOW that change is necessary to avert extremely difficult times. This is a way to begin that change with NO risk of violence, NO chance of devastating consequences, NO lost GDP, AND these blocks would provide a buffer for the population in times of crisis, AND it sets a good example for the rest of the nation, in times when conservation, and living within our means are of great social import.

I would be thrilled if people can find and share more reasons why governments may find this idea attractive.. Remember MOST politicians really WANT to do the right thing!

(BTW, this concept is not mine, see the 'Ringing ceders of Russia' 'Anastasia' books for a different, and very worth wile IMHO take on this plan)