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Thread: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

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    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    Women were objectified in Victorian times all covered up and then objectified by underdressing them.

    What's the difference?

    Visual stimulation isn't sexuality. Sexuality is an energy. One should be able to be sexy with a doo rag and sweats on.

    He didn't empower sexuality he perverted it and turned into something to turn on to instead something someone tunes into .

    He's not to blame. Any who bought into 'a girl in a magazine' is sexuality expression is repressed not empowered, and likely hasn't had enough experience with true sexual intimacy and energy themselves to know the difference. That sort of energy when its authentic always starts outside the bedroom, but its physical expression may end up there.

    Quote Posted by Arrowwind (here)
    Quote Posted by loveandgratitude (here)
    Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our Aryan woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
    Before Hefner the calendar in a college room was a wholesome Nordic looking girl in a letter sweater. Women were put on a pedestal. After Hefner, we saw women as sex toys.

    .
    Before Hefner woman were regularly beat by their husbands, there were laws on state books to determine the size of a switch a husband could use to whip them with. Women were not permitted to work, except in very select jobs, education was not promoted, women were condenmed as simple minded, incapable, and of little intellect. They could not vote, they did not have control of their children or any rights pertaining to them. They were ignored medically, told they were hysterical, and little to no sicientific research revolved around the female anatomy. All property belonged to the husband, and if she decided she really needed to leave she left with nothing.
    They could not leave abusive husbands becasue they were not taught how to survive in the world. Women frequently were not permitted to speak on politics or any subject pertaining to the culture at large. They were forced to have sex when they didnt want to and the feared abandonment or beating if they refused. They were not suppose to have orgasim and most women didnt even know it was possible. They felt shame for their bodies, and suffered under false modesty.. They generally were thankful when their old husbands were dead so they could be free from the chore.

    now tell me again how Heftner disrespected women? was it in how they ran his business for him? was it in how poorly he paid them? Was it in how he denied them education? was it in how he beat them? was it in how he forced them to have children? was it in how he kept them locked in the house? was it in how he didn't permit them to speak? was it in how he chained them to the kitchen? was it in how he frequently saw to it that they had good financial advice? just what was it now? .... oh yes, I remember. He allowed them to enjoy their sexuality and to explore their humanness and profit from it at the same time. He helped them to use their sexuality to empower themselves.... must be a sin its so good.

    If a man degrades a woman it has nothing to do with Hefner. He learned it at home.


    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    If a man degrades a woman it has nothing to do with Hefner. He learned it at home.

    Probably. But he has a choice to unlearn it by not following suit.
    Men respond to visual stimulation. That is that. It is why women wear make up and tight jeans. It has nothing to do with degrading women. Hefner learned how to make a ton of money on what comes naturally to men. Degrading women is not what its about.
    Sexuality always starts with visual and mental contact for 98 percent of the population... more visual for men, more mental for women.
    Are you saying that these natural instincts are debased and should be eliminated from the human genome?
    I would say that it is this type of stimulus response amongst our ancestors that is the reason that you are sitting at your computer today.

    It is an evolutionary process. People will respond to what they are karmically linked to, genetically predestined for and culturally attuned to, and cultural inudendo rises out of karma and genetics. When you evolve out of it that is when you evolve out of it. It is always a matter of personal choice and level of enlightenment.

    Many men are not attracted to it and do not purchase it. Many do. My mate is not attracted to pornography but he certainly still has the response mechinisms when faces with sexy scenes on TV. Men are hardwired for it. That energy can be repressed or evolved out of.. but even the great swamis say you never stop being hardwired for it, you just choose not to participate actively.

    One might consider reading the works of David Deida... expecially his book "The Superior Man"
    I gave it to my sons when they turned 21.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    ]Men respond to visual stimulation. That is that. It is why women wear make up and tight jeans.

    This sort of emphasizes my point. Women wear tight make up and jeans because they've been equally conditioned to believe sexuality is visual stimulation. Everyone responds to visual stimulation but it composes only a very small part of authentic sexual expression. It shouldn't replace it.

    Are tight jeans sexy?
    Last edited by 9eagle9; 5th February 2011 at 20:13.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by Kal (here)
    Personally I find the feminist movement to be repugnant and destructive to women in western culture.
    This statement illustrates that you don't have any idea of what feminism actually is, and that you probably didn't even bother to check out the link that I provided in what you quoted of my post.

    In fact, I'm positive you didn't because your entire post was riddled with mansplaining nonsense. I decided to take the time and debunk most of it for you, in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, you could learn something today.

    Quote It takes a premise of rights and equality for women (a good thing) and twists it into a biased and often hypocritical viewpoint that is destructive and anything but liberating. Look how so-called feminists treat any woman who does not conform to their preconceived notions of womanhood.
    Most feminists don't have problems with women who decide to become housewives/mothers/caretakers/whatever. That is their choice, plain and simple.

    Quote The way [feminists] slandered and degraded Sarah Palin (who I am no fan of btw, I just feel she was treated very unfairly) during the last presidential election is a prime example. Unless a woman matches their viewpoint and values point for point she is seen as a traitor or "Uncle Tom", they do not really believe in a woman's right to be herself.
    Some of the ad hominem attacks on Sarah Palin were definitely unwarranted. Other concerns brought up about her were not. But that does in no way discredit an entire movement. There were a lot of people in the feminist community who were angered about the personal attacks against Palin that had nothing to do with her politics.

    You also insinuate that all women are inherently pro-women's rights. Unfortunately, this is not true. Many women in this country and abroad have extreme internalized misogyny as a result of growing up in a misogynist, alpha-male dominated culture/environment. Sarah Palin is one of these people. She is extremely regressive for the women's rights movement. For example: advocating abstinence only sex education.

    Quote It is a movement about politics and group think which is anything but liberating.
    Why shouldn't it be about politics when there is institutionalized misogyny in every aspect of our lives? Why shouldn't everyone think that women should be paid equally as a man for the same job? ETC.

    The feminist movement isn't full of mindless robot women who spew man-hate. It is full of diverse women from all walks of life with varying opinions on a lot of topics. Not everyone agrees on everything. Feminism, like scientific thought in a way, is constantly changing and evolving (see: first wave, second wave, third wave, etc).

    Quote I also believe that it has been a major factor in teaching and encouraging self-destructive behaviors that cause long-term problems regarding self-esteem and responsibility in both sexes. It has taught countless young women to disrespect their own bodies and treat sex as something casual and meaningless, that promiscuity is an empowering concept that makes them equal to men. By extension it has also changed the male views and values of sex as well to include the value and treatment they place upon women. I am no prude by any means but I do wish I had learned the true value and meaning of sex at a younger age.
    To some people sex is casual and meaningless. Why do you care what a woman does with her own body? If it's her choice, it's her choice.

    Quote Another thing that bothers me about the so-called feminist movement is the concept that women do not need men. The goal should be to teach people to be decent and loving towards each other, not to be exclusionary of the opposite sex.
    "So-called feminist movement"? Are you serious? Also, this statement is a lie. Congratulations, you have yet again proven that you do not know what feminism is.

    see also:
    FAQ: Aren’t feminists just sexists towards men?
    FAQ: What’s wrong with saying that things happen to men, too?

    Quote The final point I would like to bring up is the concept that abortion (or the great euphemism "reproductive health") is central to a woman being free. I believe in both personal responsibility and that each person deserves a chance to live their life. Teaching and encouraging women to abort their offspring out of convenience to themselves is in my heated opinion teaching women to kill a part of themselves emotionally and spiritually. Maternal instinct and a sense of nurturing are inherent to the female and should be cultivated, not suppressed or culled out.
    WTF? No one is "encouraging" women to have abortions! I am pro-choice because I think it is essential to women's rights to have the choice whether or not to have an abortion. Also, not all women have maternal instincts. Not all women want to have children. Stop using quasi-New Age philosophy to insinuate that a women is in any way "killing" her maternal instinct by having an abortion. Also, easy for you to say, being a man and never having to deal with the "inconvenience" of a pregnancy. Gag me.

    Quote What it boils down to for me is that we should learn to treat each other properly and to recognize and strengthen the things that each has to offer. Women and men are equal but we are different in our strengths, weaknesses and nature. Trying to make everyone act and think the same never works in any setting, much less in regards to gender.
    This is a contradictory statement. How can you say essentially say that women and men are separate but equal and then go onto say that "trying to make everyone act and think the same" never works? Aren't you implying that all women act one way, and men act another way? It makes no sense.

    see also:
    FAQ: But men and women are both different! Isn't that obvious?

    I'm done here (for now, anyway...gotta cool off). Somehow this thread has become a hot mess of anti-semitism and misogyny. Sorry, Zook.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Are tight jeans sexy?
    Not if its "camel toe" - LOL

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Sarah Palin drew that sort of attention by not being true to herself. I find some of her Caribou Barbie attitudes offensive in their in-authenticity but that's her expression of pandering to others expectations. Self commercializing. She has a rather engaging humor to her, and yes she may be spunky and I didn't dislike her for that. But my expectations in a government official are a bit higher than appearance and comedic quality. Further emphasizing that visual stimulation wierdness we have going on.. No one would have thought about putting Lucille Ball in office but along those standards she qualified.

    There's an energetic rebound involved with Sarah. If one impresses that okay to take to the air in an unsporting and unfair manner to slaughter wolves, should she be surprised if the pack turns on her and slaughters her?

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by witchy1 (here)
    Quote Are tight jeans sexy?
    Not if its "camel toe" - LOL
    camel toe?


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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Just want to say I appreciate this thread and the views expressed. Dealing with sexual issues is part of my spiritual path, and I still have a long way to go.

    It's interesting to consider how much of sexuality is nature versus nurture and how it plays a part in our spiritual development. Even though I'm sure I've been a man in previous incarnations, I've had a lot of challenges being a woman in this lifetime and giving my power away to men. Feel like I'm on the way to a more healthy give and take...

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Arrowwind (here)
    Quote Posted by witchy1 (here)
    Quote Are tight jeans sexy?
    Not if its "camel toe" - LOL
    camel toe?

    Do you really not know, or are you just looking forward to someone explaining?

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by cosmiclagoon (here)
    [I'm done here (for now, anyway...gotta cool off). Somehow this thread has become a hot mess of anti-semitism and misogyny. Sorry, Zook.
    thanks for taking on what I did not have the intestinal fortitude to do with out getting crass and perhaps even biligerant.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    If tight jeans did not stimulate men I assure you women would not wear them as they are a pain in the ass.

    of course not all men see things the same.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Heather2012 (here)
    Do you really not know, or are you just looking forward to someone explaining?
    I've never heard that expression before... so I guess I do sincerely need a defination to keep up with the banter here. or maybe I don't really need to know? one can always pm me.
    Last edited by Arrowwind; 5th February 2011 at 21:05.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by Heather2012 (here)
    Do you really not know, or are you just looking forward to someone explaining?
    I've never heard that expression before... so I guess I do sincerely need a defination to keep up with the banter here.


    If a woman's pants are too tight in the crotch, others can see the female genitalian shape that somewhat resembles a camel toe...

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Greetings to all
    Playboy magazine certainly played a role in most male adolescents' lives growing up in big city America...and also has been a springboard for many writers to get published with alternative views...they were the original 'wikileaks' in my youth...and the monthly pin-ups were on the inside of every locker in high school and in the Service...did they contribute to the degradation of morality? Who's morality? Did they cheapen feminism? No more so than most marketing/advertising for the last 50 years, or some religions for the last 2500 years.
    Pointing out who owns the publication is a matter of fact... why they exist is speculation....is there a cult that is hell bent to enslave the world ?..We'll just have to keep our hearts and minds (and eyes) open to that possibility...BUT...what we are here for is to share in the learning of the truths of life...not to insult one another...one resorts to name calling when one runs out of facts to support ones position. Let's stick together in the pursuit of reality...wherever it leads. And watch each others' back.

    Blessings to all. Actions speak louder than words

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by Arrowwind (here)
    Quote Posted by witchy1 (here)
    Quote Are tight jeans sexy?
    Not if its "camel toe" - LOL
    camel toe?

    A phenom that occurs when too much emphasis is put on the jeans and not the woman inside.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Lefty Dave: Playboy magazine certainly played a role in most male adolescents' lives growing up in big city America...and also has been a springboard for many writers to get published with alternative views...they were the original 'wikileaks' in my youth...

    If the playboy bunnies had written the articles we could say that Playboy was truly empowering to women. Playboy used to be a great place to start one's writing career, rather lucrative too and counts as a professional credit. Not anymore, I think they've closed the door to open submissions.... And perhaps they are very empowered these women. They may be brilliant, they may have warm nurturing personalities. They may be hugely courageous social activists and teachers. Most likely some of them are. When Hughe starts revealing and emphasizing that side of his women I will have to say that he indeed helped to empower them. But a magazine knows it has to give the public what it wants. So admittedly its not just Huge's fault. JOHN (no pun intended) Q. Public created the demand.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by Arrowwind (here)
    Lord Sidious said: Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the
    1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman & Hugh Heffner replaced Marx,
    Trotsky and Lenin.

    How interesting. It is though Reichian therapy that my friend who was legally blind regained her vision. I think you might do well with some of his technique.
    No, I didn't say that, I quoted someone else.
    And why is it that if I write that the White man has been out and done x to whatever group, that is ok, but when I say that jews did y, then people flip out and fire the anti-semitism flare?
    Do I need to post a huge disclaimer the size of an encyclopaedia everytime I post that sort of thing?
    Why is it ok for some people to point the finger in one direction, but not in another?
    This is some of the conditioning that we have to get out of our systems.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    I would like to add this:

    Sexual empowerment versus sexuality. One is head, one is heart, they each produce a very a different creation.

    Reflect on this for a moment.

    Ross

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by Ross (here)
    I would like to add this:

    Sexual empowerment versus sexuality. One is head, one is heart, they each produce a very a different creation.

    Reflect on this for a moment.

    Ross
    Yes, and I have noticed that I have both a head and a heart. They kind of go together in this body and I suspect that one greatly affects the other. I choose not to close one off in favor of the other and I figure I have an integrated system for a reason.

    Sexual empowerment means that your sexuality functions with clear intelligence, edcuation, and no weird pshycological influences based around fear, manipulation, anger, etc etc.

    Sexuality is how you live your sexual energy though your energetic life force system. Some live it only through the heart. Others do it with tantra, others have a mixed bag. For some its a total head trip.

    I think such definations lack agreement around here. Everyone has sexuality, if it is from the heart or not.
    Last edited by Arrowwind; 6th February 2011 at 02:58.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Hugh Hefner is the same as any other human being, nothing more nothing less and society will always love him, starting with his detractors.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Yes, I find this writing dispicable... but lets not censor. How will I know this person for what he is if he is censored? Such types of people only become more skilled and manipulative at delivering their lies when they are censored. Lets see them for what they are and call them out when necessary.

    [/QUOTE]

    What do you find dispicable......The statement about - .Heffner and the Fem's in the 1960's have led to make our woman portrayed as sexual meat he still deserves the rope for how his company has degraded our woman.
    It is my opinion that woman have been portrayed as sexual meat in Men's Sex magazines. Obviously you do not agree with this obsevation, but why do you find it dispicable. Please explain

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    There may be two different core beliefs opposing each other here. Everyone has at least a passing knowledge of David Icke and Jordan Maxwell who make references to Nazi's and Zionism, Jewish Brotherhood and the Aryans. We take this to mean these are not people but titles given to influential groups controlling the world, which is not most people. People applaud this work of where the Aryan came from and the Aryan Brotherhood, etc etc but when its mentioned in conversation its suddenly racist and despicable?

    I took it in context, not personally. There's nothing personal.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    [/QUOTE] Lord Sidious

    And why is it that if I write that the White man has been out and done x to whatever group, that is ok, but when I say that jews did y, then people flip out and fire the anti-semitism flare?
    Do I need to post a huge disclaimer the size of an encyclopaedia everytime I post that sort of thing?
    Why is it ok for some people to point the finger in one direction, but not in another?
    This is some of the conditioning that we have to get out of our systems.[/QUOTE]
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I think we get too comfortable here, think we're talking amongst friends, and we are for the most part...BUT...mossadmi6cia lurk here too...and so do the Z's...ready to discourage those who get too close to the most serious problem on our planet.....money. And the most prevalent disease.....GREED.
    Last edited by Lefty Dave; 6th February 2011 at 22:37.

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    Default Re: Has Hugh Hefner been good for society .. or has he been a bane of modern society?

    Quote Posted by Lefty Dave (here)
    I think we get too comfortable here, think we're talking amongst friends, and we are for the most part...BUT...mossadmi6cia lurk here too...and so do the Z's...ready to discourage those who get too close to the most serious problem on our planet.....money. And the most prevalent disease.....GREED.
    I would agree on all your points there Dave, but the only way to break the paradigm is work through it, not ignore it.
    There are a lot of people who don't conceive of many different things because they aren't spoken of.

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