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    United States Avalon Member Whitehaze's Avatar
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    Default Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Scientists warn of $2,000bn solar ‘Katrina’
    Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 6:24:50 PM by BenLurkin

    The sun is waking up from a long quiet spell. Last week it sent out the strongest flare for four years – and scientists are warning that earth should prepare for an intense electromagnetic storm that, in the worst case, could be a “global Katrina” costing the world economy $2,000bn.

    Senior officials responsible for policy on solar storms – also known as space weather – in the US, UK and Sweden urged more preparedness at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington.

    “Predict and prepare should be the watchwords,” agreed Jane Lubchenco, head of the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. “So much more of our technology is vulnerable than it was 10 years ago.”

    A solar storm starts with an eruption of super-hot gas travelling out from the sun at speeds of up to 5m miles an hour. Electrically charged particles hit earth’s atmosphere 20 to 30 hours later, causing electromagnetic havoc.

    Last week’s solar storm may have been the biggest since 2007, but it was relatively small in historical terms.

    It caused some radio communications problems and minor disruption of civil aviation as airlines routed flights away from the polar regions, said Dr Lubchenco.

    A more extreme storm can shut down communications satellites for many hours – or even cause permanent damage to their components. On the ground, the intense magnetic fluctuations can induce surges in power lines, leading to grid failures such as the one that blacked out the whole of Quebec in 1989.

    The 11-year cycle of solar activity is quite variable and the present one is
    running late, with the next maximum expected in 2013.

    The peak was not expected to be very strong but that should not cause
    complacency, said Tom Bogdan, director of the US Space Weather Prediction
    Center.

    The most intense solar storm on record, which ruined much of the world's
    newly installed telegraph network in 1859, took place during an otherwise
    weak cycle. An 1859-type storm today could knock out the world's
    information, communications and electricity distribution systems, at a cost
    estimated by the US government at $2,000bn.

    In terms of terrestrial vulnerability, the biggest change since the 2000
    peak is that the world has become more dependent on global positioning
    system satellites - and not just for navigation. The world's mobile phone
    networks depend on ultra-precise GPS time signals for their co-ordination.





    Putting the article together again, as it seems to have been buried. stand by



    This is not about the monetary cost.
    Last edited by Whitehaze; 21st February 2011 at 17:40.
    In the light of the day the other light is hidden, never the less that other light still exists seen by other eyes.

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    United States Avalon Member Darla Ken Pearce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    While these are legitimate concerns. There is a general misunderstanding about the Solar Winds. They also have the potential to benefit instead of harm and heal instead of destroy. It depends upon your perspective. Science is out of their depth and simply do not understand events happening today. Without a spiritual aspect ~ it is easy to miss what these events really mean.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Quote Posted by Darla Ken Jensen Pearce (here)
    Science is out of their depth and simply do not understand events happening today. Without a spiritual aspect ~ it is easy to miss what these events really mean.
    I'd disagree almost entirely with that statement to be perfectly honest.

    You espouse one over the other dismissing science as, forgive my generalising, a rather redundant and pointless endeavour. It wasn't spirituality that gave birth to the combustion engine, personal computer, mobile phone or intenet, or even the many wonders of modern healthcare (yes, including the many bad uses of modern healthcare).


    Having said that its not science that gives us a soul, or an existence, or love or compassion or anything else like that. Thats more a spiritual matter and a matter of individual understanding unique to each and everyone of us.

    You cannot be "open minded" if you close your mind and dismiss things on principle. I have a great many of beliefs that many off the members of this forum would rail against, also some that others would praise openly.

    It's all a matter of balance, and you can't have only one side of a scale and say its even.

    Nothing personal to you, more a moan at the nature of the statement.
    We are not right because we are mighty, we are mighty because we are right.

    Never fail to question what other men take on faith.

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    Avalon Member ponda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    i agree with Darla.

    There's so much more going on all around us that the scientists have absolutely no idea about.

    Sure they gave us some tech but where did the 'inspiration' for the discoveries really come from in the first place ?

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    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Thank you for this information. May be earth housing and planting will ge a must by 2014. I decided I will support the thread I deemed important to be read, so that they remain in the main pages and are read by more people. Good threads are, in my opinion, not making it here at avalon anylonger. They get pushed back. Therefore, here I come with my comments.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Quote Posted by Darla Ken Jensen Pearce (here)
    While these are legitimate concerns. There is a general misunderstanding about the Solar Winds. They also have the potential to benefit instead of harm and heal instead of destroy. It depends upon your perspective. Science is out of their depth and simply do not understand events happening today. Without a spiritual aspect ~ it is easy to miss what these events really mean.
    I completely agree.
    Science does have a very limited persective and the scientists understand very little about this phenomena. They may be able to measure it but they are far from understanding what it is, which gives them as much credibility as anyone commenting on it from a ' spiritual ' or right brained persective. What is needed as always is a balance. For Scientific understanding to progress, scientists need to venture from the limits of their left brained confines to truly understand more about their universe.

    Perhaps there is a positive effect of solar winds here on earth- Id like to think so- ultimately, life here comes from and relies on the sun for survival.
    Last edited by Lancelot; 21st February 2011 at 14:19.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Just to nd the debate over science/spiritualism, i don't think that thats what Whitehaze wanted.

    Lets more discuss what the implications would be of an event of this nature.
    We are not right because we are mighty, we are mighty because we are right.

    Never fail to question what other men take on faith.

    Abashed the Devil stood, and saw how awful goodness is, weeped, and pined his loss.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    I cant see the FT article without registering on the site.

    But I have heard similar estimates before. Something to the effect of 200B and 10 years to recover from.

    To be something so natural that occurs in cycles, You would think our electric grids would be more prepared. I know they can shut down some satellites and some area electric hubs before an impact, If they have a warning. But I belive most of our electric grids are outdated and would not stand a chance. This would cause mass panic and chaos.

    If this happens, all the scientist will say is "we told you so" should have been prepared. Can't blame nobody but yourself for not being prepared.

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    Great Britain Avalon Member bilko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Quote Posted by Whitehaze (here)
    Thats a huge damage estimate



    The sun is waking up from a long quiet spell. Last week it sent out the strongest flare for four years – and scientists are warning that earth should prepare for an intense electromagnetic storm that, in the worst case, could be a “global Katrina” costing the world economy $2,000bn





    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/67444b2c-3...#axzz1EZbkFdFa
    How do they know the sun is waking up?
    Are they saying that the sun is an entity? That they knew it was asleep?
    Do they actually understand the sun?
    Is this a prediction or do they have information that tells them the sun is now entering a phase of activity?
    I'm guessing they do more than they let on which is why they spent millions on the SOHO project.

    Sorry but am just waking up myself to this double talk that they confuse us with every day and we take for granted.
    These are the lies i pass on to my kids , not any more though, not until i find out the truth.
    I'm not taking anything they say at face value any more.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Quote Posted by Zepheriah (here)
    Just to nd the debate over science/spiritualism, i don't think that thats what Whitehaze wanted.

    Lets more discuss what the implications would be of an event of this nature.
    The implications of this type of event the way it is presented here are obvious. World devastation.

    The anticipated response to this article is also obvoius- Mass Fear

    Agreed, the debate is not about science/spiritualism but the actual validity of the information presented in this article.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    I wondered what that recently released large satellite was for..... It was a EMP weapon!

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    Inelia
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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    From what I understand, this has happened before, multiple times, but at the time we didn't depend so much (as a society), on electronic equipment. As computers and electric grids go down, they will need to be repaired.

    If, and when, this happens, there will be a world wide electronic "silence". Apart from those machines which have been built to withstand the damage (surge protectors, automatic switch off buttons etc).

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    I dislike it when they make you register to read something that should be freely available to all to read. I posted the article in its entiretly. Again, this has nothing to do with $2000bn in damages.........
    In the light of the day the other light is hidden, never the less that other light still exists seen by other eyes.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Quote Posted by Inelia (here)
    From what I understand, this has happened before, multiple times, but at the time we didn't depend so much (as a society), on electronic equipment. As computers and electric grids go down, they will need to be repaired.

    If, and when, this happens, there will be a world wide electronic "silence". Apart from those machines which have been built to withstand the damage (surge protectors, automatic switch off buttons etc).
    Your Correct,

    Here is a small snippet from from WIKI on some recent flares HERE.
    Quote The most powerful flare of the last 500 years was the first flare to be observed, on September 1, 1859, and was reported by British astronomer Richard Carrington. The event is named the Solar storm of 1859, or the "Carrington event". The flare was visible to a naked-eye, and produced stunning auroras down to tropical latitudes such as Cuba or Hawaii, and set telegraph systems on fire.[7] The flare left a trace in Greenland ice in the form of nitrates and beryllium-10, which allow its strength to be measured today (New Scientist, 2005).

    In modern times, the largest solar flare measured with instruments occurred on November 4, 2003 (initially measured at X28 and later upgraded to X45).[8][9] Other large solar flares also occurred on April 2, 2001 (X20), October 28, 2003 (X17), September 7, 2005 (X17) [10] and February 17, 2011.[11] In 1989, during former solar cycle 22 two large flares occurred in March, 6 (X15) (see: March 1989 geomagnetic storm) and August, 16 (X20) causing disruptions in electric grids and computer systems.[12] A complete list is available at http://www.spaceweather.com/solarflares/topflares.html
    Last edited by JDM; 22nd February 2011 at 02:26.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Quote Posted by Whitehaze (here)
    I dislike it when they make you register to read something that should be freely available to all to read. I posted the article in its entiretly. Again, this has nothing to do with $2000bn in damages.........
    I agree

    Thanks for posting the the article!

    There is a lot of good info that comes from the FT. I don't like the fact the make you register either.

    And yeah,
    I dont think the 200B is the main concern here. As much as the "other" longer lasting and devastating effects.

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    i'll believe it when i see it talk is cheap on fear lately, and most dont have a clue to what's to be, no fear please for me !
    Chris....... Free your mind

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Quote Posted by slipknoted (here)
    no fear please for me !
    I agree with you there.
    Will this news make me do anything different in my daily life? besides some minor precautionary preparedness, No.

    But it is nice to have the information. weather or not we choose to use or act on it or not.

    however, it is a known fact that solar flares peek within cycles of the sun. And over the last several decades we have became so reliant and taken our power grids for granite. And if/when it does happen I cant say I wasn't warned or blame someone else.

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    Avalon Member Wiley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    Quote Posted by Whitehaze (here)
    Scientists warn of $2,000bn solar ‘Katrina’
    Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 6:24:50 PM by BenLurkin

    The sun is waking up from a long quiet spell. Last week it sent out the strongest flare for four years – and scientists are warning that earth should prepare for an intense electromagnetic storm that, in the worst case, could be a “global Katrina” costing the world economy $2,000bn.

    Senior officials responsible for policy on solar storms – also known as space weather – in the US, UK and Sweden urged more preparedness at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington.

    “Predict and prepare should be the watchwords,” agreed Jane Lubchenco, head of the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. “So much more of our technology is vulnerable than it was 10 years ago.”

    A solar storm starts with an eruption of super-hot gas travelling out from the sun at speeds of up to 5m miles an hour. Electrically charged particles hit earth’s atmosphere 20 to 30 hours later, causing electromagnetic havoc.

    Last week’s solar storm may have been the biggest since 2007, but it was relatively small in historical terms.

    It caused some radio communications problems and minor disruption of civil aviation as airlines routed flights away from the polar regions, said Dr Lubchenco.

    A more extreme storm can shut down communications satellites for many hours – or even cause permanent damage to their components. On the ground, the intense magnetic fluctuations can induce surges in power lines, leading to grid failures such as the one that blacked out the whole of Quebec in 1989.

    The 11-year cycle of solar activity is quite variable and the present one is
    running late, with the next maximum expected in 2013.

    The peak was not expected to be very strong but that should not cause
    complacency, said Tom Bogdan, director of the US Space Weather Prediction
    Center.

    The most intense solar storm on record, which ruined much of the world's
    newly installed telegraph network in 1859, took place during an otherwise
    weak cycle. An 1859-type storm today could knock out the world's
    information, communications and electricity distribution systems, at a cost
    estimated by the US government at $2,000bn.

    In terms of terrestrial vulnerability, the biggest change since the 2000
    peak is that the world has become more dependent on global positioning
    system satellites - and not just for navigation. The world's mobile phone
    networks depend on ultra-precise GPS time signals for their co-ordination.





    Putting the article together again, as it seems to have been buried. stand by



    This is not about the monetary cost.
    If the sun got to acting funky on us I think it would cost more than 2 trillion dollars....

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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    I have spent a lot of time on this data: http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms.html and there is an increased risk of stronger solar storms around the solar cycle maximum following a long quiet minimum. Whether it happens this cycle depends on this stuff... http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/Citations.aspx?id=330

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    Mauritius Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Scientists warn of $2000BN solar Katrina

    They should freeze Mubarak's 70 billion dollars assets and pay towards the cost.But i guess we the people have to foot the bill..

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