Positive Intentions do NOT necessarily ensure favorable outcomes.

[firstlook]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
An emotional reaction can be part of it, eventually it can't manifest into physical symptoms, tachycardia, profuse sweating, plummeting blood sugar, rise or drop in blood pressure, black outs and hysteria, extreme fright, flight and fright mechanism. Pre existing physical conditions can be triggered to because of those symptoms. Someone who has a heart condition really shouldn't be experiencing an uncontrolled healing crisis on their own. An having a good intention does little to salve it.

Quite a lot like a panic attack. A healing crisis on its own is not always a bad thing but they usually need some attention. And panicked people usually don't have the presence of mind to keep to take care themselves.

I have hyper tension, or did at least. I know what your talking about now.

Some panicked people do. I used to wake up shaking in the morning for 4 years of my childhood. I didnt tell my parents, and eventually learned to address my issues.

I was lucky though. Alot of people continue to slip despite their good intentions. Those good intentions though when it comes to ones self health both mentally and physically, also stem from assumptions.

All in all........Know thy self.

[Hiram]

I have worked in palliative care and have witnessed the power of intent.

In those terms, it was the intent to make the transition with dignity and under the conditions of your choosing.

People leave the body a number of times in the last days and hours. We call this "being In and Out". They are also almost ALWAYS visited in the last days. These are the emissaries, come to attenuate the person to the other side. Mid-wives, if you will:-)

I have been present at some beautiful deaths. To surrender one's intent to a higher force, is the most humbling thing I have ever encountered, and it brings tears to my eyes of course even now as i write this.

[greybeard]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
You know I'd feel about oh 1/10 th better if one person who is horsing around with this stuff admits to knowing how to cope with any healing crisis this horsing around may illicit. Just one person to take responsibility if some buried emotional embedding is triggered in another person.

Anyone?

That is why training is necessary.
No need to reinvent the wheel, you can improve but there are tried and tested ways of healing thousands of years old, many originating in China.
As part of the training you are taught to feel, be aware, of the flow of energy through the hands.
Healing for this reason is normally one to one. Thats is very controllable. With a multitude of untrained people sending energy then there is the possibility of something going wrong.
A "healer" takes responsibility from start to finish of the process which may take several sessions.
Rarely healing crisis can occur but the therapist is trained to handle this.

If your car wont start it is ok to hook up to one other car battery but multiples???
If there was something fairly serious wrong with your car or your body would you let some one untrained work on it.

The apprentice learns by watching first, the junior Dr not allowed to prescribe.

Chris

[Ilie Pandia]

I would like to put myself in the shoes of the "target" of a remote healing session. Unrequested healing that may go wrong...

From I am reading here, it would seem that I am at the mercy of others with no means of self-protection. My healing (or getting worse) is dependent on an outside source: the one who does the healing (or the attack). Should not be in my power to accept or reject any "gift" sent my way? By saying that you can heal me or attack me remotely without my permission aren't you taking away my power?

If I accept that I can harm someone without their letting me, I MUST accept that I can be harmed by someone regardless of how I protect myself... (it ties into the victim asking for forgiveness as the co-creator of the situation)

[Hiram]

Good points pixel. I think perhaps you are applying a different standard to the astral than to reality...when in fact the same standards apply. You have skin on your human body that provides protection from the elements--yet if I send out a toxic nerve gas...despite your skin...and despite your resistance or knowledge, you can be harmed by thus. You can however take precautions to prevent this to a certain extent.

The astral or spiritual realms or no different in this measure..with the exception that perhaps the damage would not "kill" your radiant body persee...but may cause you to be entrained into a vibratory resonance that you find very unpleasant. If you stayed in that resonance too long, you yourself could be tainted.

Those are some thoughts.

[9eagle9]

I've lost one cancer person because they refused to enter into a healing contract. My mother. She was bed ridden before any treatment started. She agreed to let me work with her in spite of the blistering animosity she held for me. Within four days she was out of bed and raising hell in the neighborhood again. I suggested that whatever WE had attempted seemed to be working. That was it. She climbed right back in bed and started chemo. Her contract with me was that I was NEVER going to be right about anything as far as she was concerned even if she had to die to prove it. And of course she had never forgiven me for being born a gigantic 10 pound premature black baby.

It makes me want to scream, cancer is so damned easy to get rid of. A physical reflection of what is eating us alive in the inside. Mary Croft suggests it is an outright desire for death. Or so hungry for some unfulfilled need that the body begins to consume itself to compensate. Who knows. Who truly truly knows the pain that exists inside of us that is not even felt consciously. My mother wanted to die, she'd threatened us her whole life with how we'd be sorry when she was gone. But God played a good one on her if you can imagine someone coming back from the dead. Or maybe God was showing me a thing or two about the illusionary nature of death.

When someone dies we always get a feeling of unreality that we can't seem to get out of for weeks and weeks. This is when we most know that death isn't real. We just ignore what we know and feel when a death occurs. If it were real why would we feel so strongly that it wasn't real?

Last spring an acquaintance of mine was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. So I said, Come over as soon as you can. In the meantime NO SUGAR. She's a bit of a victim and I lose my patience (patients? ha ha ) fast with people like that so one of my students made the agreement to work with her. The first thing that was reported back to me is that the woman was consuming sugar at a far greater rate now than she ever did when she was well. Death wish. Contract. After that it was just a matter of hounding her till she coughed up her contract. Her tumor shrank to virtually nothing before her treatment ever began. But it was the sugar thing that got me. It was like she was telling me "OH crap you're going to drag god into this; i better punish myself as much as possible."

I have to tell people though, Here's the terms of an agreement. You, I and God are going to enter into a sacred agreement. We are going to renegotiate some stuff here, and create a whole new sacred relationship with yourself. If they bow out of that contract, well...my responsibility as a support system is ended. If I didn't approach it this way I'd lose my mind at the senselessness of it all.

I am admittedly a gunslinger and a bit of cavalier when it comes to things like this. Cancer? Not a problem? Aids? No biggie. Genital Herpes? Nope we'll have you back in the sack in six weeks time.
People have warned me that God will punish me for being such a hotshot and I wondered myself if I were pushing the line there. Thus far not (thank you , God) But God assures me that is what people need most is a lack of fear in their most fearful hour. I later realized its about not getting into the contract with them by treating them as if they were anything but already whole. Identifying them as a wound or diseased, they've already done that. But seeing them in their wholeness. When you see someone in their wholeness its easy to be confident.

[write4change]

Pixel,

I hear what you are saying but it is not that simple. It is like allowing yourself to be attacked. Some people don't think about it any way. People who walk with their heads down and shoulders rolled and withdrawn from seeing around them look and act like victims. People who stride down the street with their heads up, eyes alert and aware, are not usually chosen to be victims. Most predators want a quick kill in whatever way they are doing it not a lot of hassle. Hassles are not usually generated by unknowns --- they are usually karmic encounters of something.

[Ilie Pandia]

Posted by Hiram (here)
Good points pixel. I think perhaps you are applying a different standard to the astral than to reality...when in fact the same standards apply. You have skin on your human body that provides protection from the elements--yet if I send out a toxic nerve gas...despite your skin...and despite your resistance or knowledge, you can be harmed by thus. You can however take precautions to prevent this to a certain extent.

The astral or spiritual realms or no different in this measure..with the exception that perhaps the damage would not "kill" your radiant body persee...but may cause you to be entrained into a vibratory resonance that you find very unpleasant. If you stayed in that resonance too long, you yourself could be tainted.

Those are some thoughts.

Yes Hiram, but I am asking is: for you to choose me as your "victim" (and not someone else) wouldn't imply that we both have some kind of agreement to have this experience together (at some high-self level that I am not aware of)? If this is not true... then why should I as a victim ask for forgiveness if I did not contribute in any way to the situation?

[Hiram]

Okay. :-)

That is a very large bag you are opening there...as you well know. I'm glad you did though. What a great thread; and important!

Would someone else like to share their perspective on this question?

I agree with pixel that when "bad" things happen to us...there usually HAS been an agreement reached on another plane for this to occur.

[greybeard]

Posted by pixel (here)
I would like to put myself in the shoes of the "target" of a remote healing session. Unrequested healing that may go wrong...

From I am reading here, it would seem that I am at the mercy of others with no means of self-protection. My healing (or getting worse) is dependent on an outside source: the one who does the healing (or the attack). Should not be in my power to accept or reject any "gift" sent my way? By saying that you can heal me or attack me remotely without my permission aren't you taking away my power?

If I accept that I can harm someone without their letting me, I MUST accept that I can be harmed by someone regardless of how I protect myself... (it ties into the victim asking for forgiveness as the co-creator of the situation)

Not fond of the words attack or target though I appreciate why you use them.
Yes you have the power.
Put it this way if you are aware of psychic attack you can ask for Divine help, you can meditate and ask for God or Holy spirit to take it away.
So it can be refused.- but you do no the have the power in lower self to reject if it is a very powerful attack.
Healing can be refused easily no healer would attempt to force,

All healing is by Self which is the same Self as the Self of the healer. That takes a bit of understanding.
Putting that aside a good way of looking at it is.

The healer has done their best to be a pure channel, has worked on them selves under supervision, be fore the healing commences the process and the end result is handed over to Divinity. It might not be in a persons spiritual interest to be cured, that can not be known by the healer and is rightly handed over to God.

So the healer is the catalyst that jump starts the healing process in the client, the Self of the client does the rest.
The more powerful,well prepared. the catalyst the more chance there is that the jump start will be powerful enough to get the process of to a good start.

Hope that helps.

Chris

[Hiram]

Posted by greybeard (here)
It might not be in a persons spiritual interest to be cured, that can not be known by the healer and is rightly handed over to God.

Yes, Brilliant. That is the way astral/energetic healing normally takes place.

[Ilie Pandia]

Posted by Hiram (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It might not be in a persons spiritual interest to be cured, that can not be known by the healer and is rightly handed over to God.

Yes, Brilliant. That is the way astral/energetic healing normally takes place.

It may also be in my best spiritual interest that I get attacked (and as a result of that I get to meet some important help... or I have a self realization)...

See.... I can not believe you can separate healing from attacking in this case... you either can allow/refuse both... or you can not allow/refuse both...

Why your higher-self would help you get to a healer but will just stand by and let you get hurt by someone else...

[manny]

Posted by pixel (here)

Posted by Hiram (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It might not be in a persons spiritual interest to be cured, that can not be known by the healer and is rightly handed over to God.

Yes, Brilliant. That is the way astral/energetic healing normally takes place.

It may also be in my best spiritual interest that I get attacked (and as a result of that I get to meet some important help... or I have a self realization)...

See.... I can not believe you can separate healing from attacking in this case... you either can allow/refuse both... or you can not allow/refuse both...

Why your higher-self would help you get to a healer but will just stand by and let you get hurt by someone else...

have you been attacked

[9eagle9]

The healing is always dependent on you. Someone may facilitate it but its up to the recipient to have the choice to yark up what's bothering them. To impose on someones free will and not have a fully informed disclosure of what others are doing to them...I have to say if that is occuring there is little higher good in the matter and its self serving. All healers have struggled with this. Its one of the challenges of being a healer to wrestle to the ground the morality of that.

I have people who beg me for healing but then on another level reject it. Consciously that want something, usually attention or a new experience. Subconsciously their pain body is so great that they don't want it. There's some people who scoff at it but some level of them are being transformed by it. Lesser subconscious pain body, their disbelief is simply at a conscious level.

Bottom line is what is going on inside of us. The ego really really plays a number on us all. If we are carrying a guilt with us that we are not aware of the ego will open the door to anything without our knowing it and inviting something in to punish us. If guilt is present the logical summation is that a punishment is required. We heal that guilt though and we take away the ego's arsenal. We become impervious to outside influences.

The last bad attack I had was an ex and his girlfriend. I knew it and did nothing about although I could have bitchslapped both of them onto the other side of the universe. The reason I didn't is because I was allowing this attack at some level. I was not in a very good place, I know that much, prior to their meddling. So instead of blowing both guns at them, which then just becomes a game of Stratego you never extricate yourself from, I figured I have far greater control by fixing what was going on inside me. This not about loss of control its about gaining control.

The shadow will undermine our best conscious efforts and intentions. I ask people to attend to thine own wounds before meddling in others. While some people think I'm pissing on their parade I think its a reasonable request. I think Jesus said something of that nature too. And what was he famous for?

Most healers spend a great deal of time in self healing before they attempt distance or remote healing. Some don't spend quite enough. People who are raised to be shamanic often times spend decades in self correction and are well into their forties before seeing people outside of the family to work with. This demonstrates a rare responsibility and caring for the welfare of others.

The only thing that puts us at the mercy of others is our ignorance of who and what we are. Our susceptibility and desperate desire to BELIEVE in something. And our state of woundedness.

Posted by pixel (here)
I would like to put myself in the shoes of the "target" of a remote healing session. Unrequested healing that may go wrong...

From I am reading here, it would seem that I am at the mercy of others with no means of self-protection. My healing (or getting worse) is dependent on an outside source: the one who does the healing (or the attack). Should not be in my power to accept or reject any "gift" sent my way? By saying that you can heal me or attack me remotely without my permission aren't you taking away my power?

If I accept that I can harm someone without their letting me, I MUST accept that I can be harmed by someone regardless of how I protect myself... (it ties into the victim asking for forgiveness as the co-creator of the situation)

[greybeard]

Posted by pixel (here)

Posted by Hiram (here)
Good points pixel. I think perhaps you are applying a different standard to the astral than to reality...when in fact the same standards apply. You have skin on your human body that provides protection from the elements--yet if I send out a toxic nerve gas...despite your skin...and despite your resistance or knowledge, you can be harmed by thus. You can however take precautions to prevent this to a certain extent.

The astral or spiritual realms or no different in this measure..with the exception that perhaps the damage would not "kill" your radiant body persee...but may cause you to be entrained into a vibratory resonance that you find very unpleasant. If you stayed in that resonance too long, you yourself could be tainted.

Those are some thoughts.

Yes Hiram, but I am asking is: for you to choose me as your "victim" (and not someone else) wouldn't imply that we both have some kind of agreement to have this experience together (at some high-self level that I am not aware of)? If this is not true... then why should I as a victim ask for forgiveness if I did not contribute in any way to the situation?

Depends how far you want to come out of the rabbit hole laughing

There is only one of us here but we need the illusion of duality to experience.

However at the level you are talking about we incarnate as a soul group, so yes, there may well be an agreement for your friend to be your bad guy.
Eckhart Tolle said "There was never any one there to do anything to you"

We need to forgive as part of our spiritual growth till w get to the point were we can say God forgive them for they know not what they do, in other words they really could not act any other way, therefore there is nothing to forgive. and so on.

Namaste

[Hiram]

Well pixel, that could have to do with pre-agreements, as you mention.

As I mentioned before, the astral level of existence (astral for lack of a better word of course) is NOT ultimate reality. There are many levels in the spectrum and we are discussing just one that allows people to affect eachother at a distance.

Its possible. It's not always good. And just because I ahve agreed to have someone Mug me in a pre-agreement, does not mean I will sit by and allow it to occur.

Each event is an opportunity to express yourself.

(not too shabby for a 700th post!)

[Ilie Pandia]

Posted by manny (here)

Posted by pixel (here)

Posted by Hiram (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It might not be in a persons spiritual interest to be cured, that can not be known by the healer and is rightly handed over to God.

Yes, Brilliant. That is the way astral/energetic healing normally takes place.

It may also be in my best spiritual interest that I get attacked (and as a result of that I get to meet some important help... or I have a self realization)...

See.... I can not believe you can separate healing from attacking in this case... you either can allow/refuse both... or you can not allow/refuse both...

Why your higher-self would help you get to a healer but will just stand by and let you get hurt by someone else...

have you been attacked

No, or at least I am not aware of it .

I do not want to harm anybody, and I do not expect anybody to want to harm me...

I also think I have some "good protection" because I have been involved in some stupid accidents while a child that could have ended my life and yet.... here I am

It seems to me that I have the "lowest" level of awareness on this thread ... so you will have to forgive me if I do not fully understand your replies... I know what most of you are talking about but I do not have any practical experience...

[greybeard]

Congratulations on your 700th Hiram
Great thread
Good night from me
Chris

[9eagle9]

Why would our Higher Self stand by and allow us to be attacked.

It doesn't.

Our Higher Self is our direct conduit with Source. That part of us that is really connected to God. God does not cross our free will. Nothing crosses our free will unless some part of us allows it. We don't know what we are willing though. How many people consciously desire better relationships yet get into the pattern of marrying their mother over and over again? If they want a better relationship why do they keep doing that?

What if God Higher/Self intervened everytime you had a nice unhealthy plate of greasy bacon? Or if God-Higher SElf intervened everytime someone served you a beer? Or God intervened whenever you wanted to date the bad boy / bad girl who is bound to break your heart? I'd be a bit fashed at God. What a kill joy.

Once I started working with my Higher Self and my conduit to God I had help making those sorts of decisions. But I had to give over the willingness and let my HS help me. It wasn't going to cross my free will on its own.

We are given this life to learn to manage on our own not be managed for us and this forum is all about how we collectively have allowed, through our ignorance of what we really are, others to manage our lives for us. See where it got us? . We can choose to have help with our decisions or....we can just keep happy assholing down the road the ego navigated way. Or worse, someone elses ego navigation. It depends on what you really want. You want greasy bacon, beer and bad boys. God won't deny you. You want something better for youself, God won't deny that either.

God does not cross our free will. Neither does our Higher Self. Believe me its there writhing around waiting for us to get out of our insanity and ask it to do something on our behalf. Instead we go with conscious mind choices. Ego mind choices.

If we choose to have an experience God nor the Higher Self is seldom going to rush in and save us from it. I say seldom because we do get the occasional divine intervention but ...that's a different topic of discussion. If we allow and give that willingness we are shown how to make better decisions that we are comfortable and safe making. The ego might not think so...but it don't make good decisions anyway. That's why we keep marrying our mother.

[Hiram]

Posted by pixel (here)
It seems to me that I have the "lowest" level of awareness on this thread

Thats probably not true. LOL. My level of awareness fluctuates throughout the day. The lower---higher thing anyway!! (slaps his own forehead) We have to ask what that even is don't we???