Tension in the air, good and not good.

[Belle]

Posted by linz2d (here)

Posted by Feren (here)

Posted by linz2d (here)
Anger is much like any type of emotional pain and I believe that this is a very good way to think of it, because pain tells us that there is something wrong

Emotional pain, as well as physical pain, is a matter of perception. It depends of certain perspective, certain mode of comprehension. People who grasp reality in a different way might experience emotions in adifferent way. Those "emotions" and "pains", likes and dislikes, are the core of our perception. Healing is changing perceptions, changing feelings.
Forgiveness is an example of this: it means that one's feelings are no longer against another one (or ourselves).

Yours might be a good way to think it. The hard thing to do is finding a way to feel it differently. "If you don't let your pain out it will grow". What if you could feel something different than pain? Waht if you could rise upon your old emotions the same way to rise against your old beliefs and replace them? For me, that would be a superior morality.

Well you are correct, it is all about ones individual perspective on the matter. Just to note though I have never asked anyone to believe in what I have written, in fact I hope you do question my beliefs and point of views if it means confirming your own. No doubt in some ways I have gotten it wrong but I myself am still learning.

We are all still learning, linz2d. Taking in others beliefs and point of views and rolling them around in our thoughts to see what fits is a worthy exercise, whether it confirms our own views or not. At least it makes us think and learn and grow, and especially understand others better.

"No doubt in some ways I have gotten it wrong..." I don't necessarily believe in right or wrong, good or bad as the terms are generally used. A belief that is right for some, may be wrong for others depending on where a person is in their growth. I consider it "different". As I taught my children when they were young, different doesn't mean better or worse....different is just different and that's okay.

[linz2d]

Posted by Belle (here)
"No doubt in some ways I have gotten it wrong..." I don't necessarily believe in right or wrong, good or bad as the terms are generally used. A belief that is right for some, may be wrong for others depending on where a person is in their growth. I consider it "different". As I taught my children when they were young, different doesn't mean better or worse....different is just different and that's okay.

Well I do believe that there are certain truths in this world that cannot be wrong irrespective of ones views but I agree right or wrong, good or bad can all be viewed depending on the persons perspective with relation to their understanding which they have acquired.

Maybe the biggest problem we have is not our views but how our views are interpreted or should I say misinterpreting when we have written them down, as a line can be read in one way, whilst another person may read it in another. So a person might think they are being insulted whilst there was no insult intended. And this can lead to anger and tension.

[Inanna]

In my experience, anger is really an emotion that has every right to be. But it's how you handle it that is important, indeed.
The problem is not the emotion, but the reaction to the emotion. Most of the time we judge the emotion and project it towards the reason we THINK we're angry about: this can be the situation the anger was triggered from, this can be a person who triggered the anger, etc... But that kind of reaction is almost always a resistance (sometimes even denial) towards the emotion. We judge negatively. Anger makes us uncomfortable, so we react in such a way that hopefully the confrontation with the emotion is evaded (by projecting it towards something or someone else who we believe is the source of our anger).

In mindfulness we're thaught to first really allow the anger to be. That takes time. You have to step back for a minute and just 'feel' what's there to feel. No judgement.
That gives you the opportunity to go beyond the surface of this emotion. You go really right THROUGH it. And if you're through (it hurts like hell!) you often discover the real source of that specific emotion. In my experience, anger is often an emotion that covers my own sadness: sadness for the fact that I feel unworthy, that I feel abandoned, that I feel lost in some kind of way. And that is not anyone's responsibility. It is entirely MINE and MINE only.

I feel that sadness. I feel the emotion of being lost, feeling unworthy, etcetera... Really feeling it softens my own judgement. I really feel compassionate about myself at that point. It's really opening my perspective and in the end it gives me even the strength to feel compassion towards the so called (at least, I THOUGHT they were) 'source' of my anger (you see how that is an illusion? It's just your coloured judgement, but it's not the truth. The truth lies within!).
This 'mindfulness' way of non-reaction gives me the tools to find that deep inner love. It's the core of my heart, the REAL definition of who I really am.

And if you get to that place you won't feel the need to react in such a way that you're hurting other people (if you do that, you always end up hurting yourself and the sadness grows bigger, and the anger explodes even more!). If you then react, it will be out of love, not anger.

The difficult part is that it takes an enormous amount of courage to do so. And it takes time (time you THINK you don't have when you're angry and feel the need to react from that anger).
I don't always have the courage to take that step back. Sometimes, the trigger is too big, and I'm reacting before I even know it. And then the harm is done. It feeds your ego. Your ego takes over and it feels being attacked, so it will do anything to protect itself. It's really exhaustive that way. And it triggers a lot of people, because everyone has that sadness inside of them, and not everybody knows how to handle that.

I find it very fascinating. It's really a big opportunity to learn. And also to fail, because nobody is perfect. Everyone has moments where it's too difficult to take a step back. Where we're not able to find that courage. We should be compassionate about that, because no one is thát perfect.

Edit: in that place, deep within myself, I also feel the connection with EVERYTHING. I know everything and everyone is connected on a deep level. It's really worthwhile to find that place, because it has changed my whole life and I'm sure it can change yours!

[Lord Sidious]

Anger isn't good or bad, it is how it is used.
Remember, it is a defense mechanism.

[ulli]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Anger isn't good or bad, it is how it is used.
Remember, it is a defense mechanism.

Defense mechanism? That would mean something needs defending.
What would that be?

About recent events here:

there is anger all around because there are so many lines of defense:

some want to defend Bill Ryan personally, some want to defend Project Avelon,
some want to defend the community itself, to the last weak member, including the trouble makers,
and some want to defend their right to express
their whims, impulses, repressed anger even the kind that should have been directed at a collegue at work...
Whose anger counts the most?
Bill's of course.
He has the finger on the red button.
If he decides to leave I can predict what will happen to the PA forum in a matter of a couple of weeks.
Spam messages galore.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Anger isn't good or bad, it is how it is used.
Remember, it is a defense mechanism.

Defense mechanism? That would mean something needs defending.
What would that be?

About recent events here:

there is anger all around because there are so many lines of defense:

some want to defend Bill Ryan personally, some want to defend Project Avelon,
some want to defend the community itself, to the last weak member, including the trouble makers,
and some want to defend their right to express
their whims, impulses, repressed anger even the kind that should have been directed at a collegue at work...
Whose anger counts the most?
Bill's of course.
He has the finger on the red button.
If he decides to leave I can predict what will happen to the PA forum in a matter of a couple of weeks.
Spam messages galore.

People felt threatened by what was going on and their response was anger.

[Belle]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Anger isn't good or bad, it is how it is used.
Remember, it is a defense mechanism.

I agree, Lord Sidious. I posted my experience with anger on another thread a while ago, so it's buried deep in the list of old threads.

It takes a lot to get me mad. I have a few triggers, but at this point in my life they don't quite work as they once did, much like the rest of me... Anyway, when I was young, I would reach a point I could feel the anger build to where I would "red out". I don't know how else to describe it. I would actually see like a sheet of red in front of me and as it cleared, I would be verbally attacking the person that made me angry. And not just verbally attacking...I could find their weakest spots, their vunerabilities and use words much like a sword to cut them to shreds. Most people viewed me as being "such a sweet kid"...but definitely not the ones who had experienced my anger.

The last time I got that angry was at my Dad when I was eighteen years old. He took everything I had, all the poison that came out of my mouth, and when it was done he said to my Mom, who was crying at this point, "She had to get that out. I'll never let her know how much she hurt me." And he never did. I couldn't take it back...not the words, not the hurt, none of it could be taken back.

My life changed that day. Whenever I would feel anger begin inside me, all I could think about was how deeply I hurt my Dad...and never could bear to cause that kind of hurt to anyone ever again. Today, I really dislike conflict and don't deal with it very well. I just don't see a need to create harm in another to make ones self feel better. And as far as all that energy goes, I now choose to use it to heal and unify.

That was my lesson, learned the hard way but leaving a lasting impression.

ps I've learned to take the anger like my Dad, and turn it into a force for good. So if you're angry at someone, you can turn that anger on me. It's okay, I can transform that energy into something positive and no one else will get hurt.

[Tao O]

'Hello' all Avalonians, this is to clarify, for Linz2d, and everyone, when speaking of a 'model' collective whose opinions can be very diverse, strong and intense. And of course anger is a natural part of all that communication. I did not mean the SUBJECT MATTER( their beliefs) at all

But rather the 'Spirit' in which all of their expressions are allowed to 'BE' and thus they process with each other, even though it may get very heated. I used the Jewish example, because many Mediterranean peoples also express in great volume, but from my own experience, when they polarize they usually wind up angry and not speaking to each other for decades, even forgetting what the riff was about initially.

So that a group can achieve a level of acceptance of each other and embrace each other and grow as a 'whole'..and acknowledging it to be a root characteristic of their Spiritual/intellectual growth is worthy of note.

I feel we can achieve even more evolved ways of being, by using respectful and appropriate language in that tenor of 'acceptance' And thus it will evolve as a basis of our interaction on every level.

A forum is more than just posting 'your' opinion and reading others'. There is response-ability that rises up quickly...one that includes dynamics of the whole spectrum of who people are and where they are and what the purpose and the potential we create together is. We want to see everyone flower, not just the ones that agree with us.

Maybe that is why in the 'world' paradigm of getting along and being heard at the same time requires diplomacy and Public Relations, essential in any dialogue with different agendas, and ways of being, etc. I think we respect Bill for his mastery in this area. And PA could never get off the ground if Bill was only about his ego expressing all the time.

An example that triggers polarization for me is: when a person, like a fundamentalist, says that I SHOULD love Jesus... and that I am Satan and going to Hell for having a Guru. I respond, that I love the fact they love Jesus, but I need for them to respect me as a person and not insist I love Jesus too. That they respect my Being and my beliefs though they may be very different from theirs. And I think Jesus said to love everyone..not just Christians. And then I hope they hear my heart and mind and see the boundary they crossed.

When our beliefs incite hatred and separateness, judgment and superiority, at the expense of putting others down...the boundary of respect has been crossed. We can find a way to say what we feel, know etc. without imposing those thoughts and feelings on others. AND...learning to help those that do cross the boundary of respect in respectful ways. I see so many Avalonians that really keep respect towards others..and I feel so good inside from that!

I trust, we can represent our beliefs & ideas mentally and emotionally regardless of the volume/intensity if we keep respect as a 'must' boundary. IMHO I would love for us to embrace a bigger Reality, that includes, all that we are aware of, WITH LOVE AND RESPECT. 'Apologies' are a part of the boundary keeping...cause we are not perfect. Maybe just saying, what you said makes me feel angry, or sad, or whatever..without calling others names of a degrading kind.

I look forward to my learning all of this myself..as I am a new member and see the opportunities that will present themselves. I am sure I am preaching to the choir for most of you. Thanks for your patience...hugs to all.

[ulli]

Belle, I also learnt early not to express anger.
And I did hurt my dad too, on the last occasions that I did.
The lesson to turn anger into positive took me a lot longer to learn.
If this was an astrology site I would tell people I have Pluto square Moon,
and they would immediately understand what that implies.
Anger is repressed, out of an excessive desire for peace and harmony.
But repressed anger can fester, and make one sick.
So it is a matter of learning how to manage energy.
Because anger is stored up energy, in need of redirection.

[Belle]

I've spent my life seeking to eliminate the pain in it. Rather than running away from it, I tried to identify it and asked the "universe" (or Holy Spirit, or God or higher self or whatever you choose to call it) for help. For example, I am a professional musician, classically trained, who only saw the lack in my ability to create my own music, preferring to interpret others music. Before playing, I would have terrible panic attacks...waves of nausea, lightheadedness, a feeling I was beginning to pass out. Among the many reasons for this I could identify was fear...well, absolute terror, to tell the truth. So I asked what is fear, why is it in my life, and how do I eliminate it...which started a 2-1/2 year journey understanding fear and how I place it in my life for my own reasons, and the process of eliminating unnecessary fear...the kind that stops you from accomplishing your purpose. My latest journey is through non-judgement, by far the most difficult yet rewarding journey so far.

I guess what I'm trying to say, and unfortunately doing a very poor job of it, is there is no reason to repress anger. You cannot deny or repress what you feel without hurting yourself. If it exists in you, acknowledge it, feel it, question it's existence in your life...bring it to light from the darkness. You will be amazed by what you learn and how the answers will come to you. If you are sincere and open, your life will change in ways you cannot imagine.

[ulli]

Posted by Belle (here)
I've spent my life seeking to eliminate the pain in it. Rather than running away from it, I tried to identify it and asked the "universe" (or Holy Spirit, or God or higher self or whatever you choose to call it) for help. For example, I am a professional musician, classically trained, who only saw the lack in my ability to create my own music, preferring to interpret others music. Before playing, I would have terrible panic attacks...waves of nausea, lightheadedness, a feeling I was beginning to pass out. Among the many reasons for this I could identify was fear...well, absolute terror, to tell the truth. So I asked what is fear, why is it in my life, and how do I eliminate it...which started a 2-1/2 year journey understanding fear and how I place it in my life for my own reasons, and the process of eliminating unnecessary fear...the kind that stops you from accomplishing your purpose. My latest journey is through non-judgement, by far the most difficult yet rewarding journey so far.

I guess what I'm trying to say, and unfortunately doing a very poor job of it, is there is no reason to repress anger. You cannot deny or repress what you feel without hurting yourself. If it exists in you, acknowledge it, feel it, question it's existence in your life...bring it to light from the darkness. You will be amazed by what you learn and how the answers will come to you. If you are sincere and open, your life will change in ways you cannot imagine.

Poor job? What poor job??

I had panic attacks like that, too, the first few times I stood in front of 150 people with a microphone in my hand.
I felt like I was passing out.
Then the inflow of perception stops, and the outflow of self expression begins.
It's like a little death.
Then a rebirth.

Arthur Rubinstein said once:
"Stage fright was the price I paid for the wonderful life I led."