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Thread: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    I had presumed that the moderators could read my PMs, and what is so terrible about that.
    They should never be used to say anything nasty about other members.

    They are useful for asking advice of friends, and saying things that you do not want all the world to see, but I have nothing to hide from the moderators, nor should anyone else.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Disabling PMs won't help, it will hinder our individual growth.
    Disabling PM's is not on our todo list at the moment. I doubt it will ever make that list. Rest easy.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Bill or someone ,
    please be open to us what has happend. Only this way we can learn from this and move on or it will leave a bitter taste in our mouths.
    The only way to create a new world is to be honest and teach what you know and forgive those who make a mistake.
    I don't have contact with Richard but to me it seems to extreme to ban him, he has done alot of work here and helped Avalon. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, this is a family and should be worked out as one. You don't just leave when one does wrong.

    §=[Post Update]=§

    Quote Posted by TigerLilly (here)
    I had presumed that the moderators could read my PMs, and what is so terrible about that.
    They should never be used to say anything nasty about other members.

    They are useful for asking advice of friends, and saying things that you do not want all the world to see, but I have nothing to hide from the moderators, nor should anyone else.
    It's about privacy, it doesn't matter if you don't have anything to hide.
    Have faith, my Child, have faith. Do not be bewildered. For you are beyond all things, The heart of all knowing. You are the Self. You are God. -Ashtavakra Gita 15:8

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by TigerLilly (here)
    I had presumed that the moderators could read my PMs,
    I cannot read your PM's, unless (1) you send them to me, or (2) someone else reports a problem (some violation of site guidelines) in one of them.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    I think your are right Ice nothing concrete from me... I was thinking of ways to expose such deeds as I could see it happening. I could see it being played out, then all hell broke loss.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Celine (here)
    Quote Posted by Hawkwind (here)
    I said more or less this before in another post, but it seems worth repeating here. If Charles is being straight with us, then there are very powerful people, (including some of the planet's best psychics with access to technologies far ahead of anything in the public sector), who would have a vested interest in stopping what's going on here. If Charles isn't being straight with us then his most likely reason for his being here would be to take Bill down and tear Avalon apart. Bill has already mentioned that Charles was able to plant a specific thought in his mind (go to the Swiss Air desk and ask for a standby ticket) and Charles later confirmed this. Is it so difficult to believe then that feelings of uncontrolled rage or deep betrayal could also be sent someone's way? One way or another I'm sure Avalon and her members are the focus of powerful forces aimed at causing unrest here. I'd like to ask everyone to be mindful of this at least as a possibility, and the need to stay as centered as possible when participating in discussions here. The best way I've found to deal with agent provocateurs, for example, is to remain in good humor and laugh at their attempts. If I can't do that, I've found that walking away from the situation for a bit and listening to music or working in my garden helps. Yes, I know all of that may strike some people as a bit paranoid, but as the saying goes- just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
    I'm very sad at what has happened, so I can only imagine how Bill, Richard and Celine are feeling. Much love to you all.
    Ok this is the last post i make on this thread...


    Richard has been an essential part of everything here.

    This is a very big issue,.,and richard should never go..

    Bill..

    I will go...never come back...i will keep my word and never talk about all the things you are worried i will talk about.

    Richard belongs on this trip with you.

    The bomb threat...if i know my husband.... was his way of getting you to respond, he knew one f the mods would tell you.

    His thought process is always about Avalon... your behavior was indicating to him that you had 0 intentions of dealing with the problems at hand...he felt like a parent without choices... you put him in positions time and time again, where he felt he had no choice..

    These are volunteers....giving more then any i have ever seen on line...please tell me what you offerd as support?

    They went above and beyond the call of duty many times.. Richard was asking you to do the same...and you failed him

    So...as i said above...i will go..

    one word here..or in pvt will be enough.."ok"<--just say that...and you wont need 24 hours..

    Sit and talk ..WITH richard not at him... and i promise it will work out..

    Richard and i both had one card to play ...and we lost.

    But its just one hand...

    This is the 11th hour...

    Please take more time to think this thru... Richard is much more important here then i am...

    with love...and deep sadness... i am sorry for any pain or trouble i have caused anyone...it was never my intent. All i wanted to do was be with my husband... and to help Avalon...this is all i truly wanted you to understand bill...please, in respect to the time and heart we both gave you and the forum...

    i ask for forgiveness..

    §=[Post Update]=§

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Celine (here)
    Admins can read pm's/// stop lying to ppl
    If the Avalon admins can read Private Messages, this is the first I've ever heard of it. I appreciate the confirmation. This may now explain a great deal to quite a few people.

    The thought of deliberately looking into members' PMs had never occurred to me, and I did not think it was possible. You are correct: we are learning.
    Bill you were at the table..at the coffee shop..and Richard told you
    Celine,i am wishing you and Richard well! and my best thoughts are with you both.
    all over this thread and on the 'worm tongue' you are accusing Bill with an inappropriate behaviour towords you and towords Richard (even if this is true and this is how you feel it needed to be done privetly).

    you speak in two voices Celine,and maybe more...it seems that your world is soaked with much drama and emotions,those have a place of course in our life, but it all a question of 'dosage'.
    even volunteers that contribute many hours of their time can do wrong,and i doubt if the above consequences are strictly about yesterdays drama only...the accusations that you spilled over Bill without prooving anything are intolarable for many of us.we sit quietly and wait.i really think you dont get it Celine... this forum is about the energy each of us carry and bring to the table,
    "The whole is the sum of its parts"
    you are not asking me any advice,but i will tell you anyway:
    try to be more on the observer side instead of always striving to be on the center.
    one can achieve very interesting perspectives from this side of the plate.

    i believe you have a lot to learn.
    i bid you farewell

    take care
    Limor

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Icecold (here)
    I believe Bill will consider any thoughts here with an impartial mind.

    I'm confident in both his ability as a leader and in his virtues which include compassion and forgiveness.
    Well we all are going to be watching closely now says Tuza as she gallops into her pm box to delete all her private messages.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Some of you will recall that I tried to remain neutral in that thread.
    What made me change my mind was the fact that lee appeared to be stirring to get a reaction and so he attacked Celine with the idea of getting a reaction from her and/or Richard.
    He got a reaction from Richard and then laughed at him when he reacted in pain for his wife.
    Remember that the relationshop between a man and a woman is sacred and not something to play with, let alone provoke to reactions.
    Speaking for myself, I would not tolerate someone kicking my woman, whether in text or reality.

    Let me say this, I don't know the background to any of this, it is obviously something that didn't occur yesterday.
    I don't know who is wrong and who is right and I don't believe I could figure that out, but it isn't important.
    We are still bleeding valuable members and we couldn't afford this before, let alone now.
    This shows, in my opinion, that there is still some unresolved issue/s that if not fixed, this will just keep boiling away, hidden until the next explosion.
    I consider this project too important for us to be behaving like this.
    The whole thing makes me sad.


    Quote Posted by ace (here)
    Abolish The PM service. Have it all up front. Were it should be.

    Transparency = Truth, Understanding and Peace of mind.

    PM= Paranoia.

    Ace
    As I said in that thread, this is something I used to keep in contact with people here on a day to day basis.
    Please don't take this away from me.
    And you can't punish the innocent for what others are alleged to have done, that is how the system that we all are enslaved by works and we do NOT want that mentality getting into this site.

    Quote Posted by leelah (here)
    Though I have used P.Mís myself on occasion, I would say they have a very bad side to them. They are too convenient to use when one is not thinking clearly. It would be better to gather yourself before reaching for the button to hold a private conversation with anyone, many things are said in haste!

    Friendships should be able to be formed out in the open, this is the new way to Ďbeí, no secrets. This is a road less traveled, if at all, why donít we try it, it could be the making of us

    P.mís are the equivalent to whispering in the corner, causing all sorts of paranoia in people, whether justified or not. It can also lead to favoritism, people talking away in private and then reporting back that they have the ear of one whom so many others would like to have Ė i.e. the ĎCharlesí shenanigans. It causes division. Letís kick it to the kerb.

    Thereís nothing to stop people skyping each other etc. Just do it away from Avalon, on your own time.
    Even though what you say is true, is it not the same as saying that because children can fall off a bike and hurt themselves we should ban bikes?
    Everything can be used and misused, that is part of our journey.
    Disabling PMs won't help, it will hinder our individual growth.
    If needs be, there is an addon available that will allow people to report a PM to the moderation staff, but even now, you can forward it if there is something objectionable.
    I can understand it's not a popular decision and p.m's have good uses,

    myself, it doesn't bother me, I wouldn't use them for anything destructive anyway. Perhaps people can just learn a lesson from all of this and stop any backbiting that does go on. Believe me, I know forums and backbiting is a certain outcome when it comes to p.m's, have seen them cause more trouble than I care to remember.

    Use them wisely people, don't abuse them
    With love

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  16. Link to Post #129
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by jjl (here)
    "if Richard just "snapped" it might be easier to recognize the validity of your argument here, but you have to admit, it was a little more than that people snap all the time on this forum and don't get banned. Richard went all freddy krueger on that guy. when certain lines are crossed, there is simply no turning back. Bill had no choice on this one.

    Bill, will Lee-b be reinstated? i thought he had a fair and valid argument on the 'worm' thread, and i frankly did not understand all the vitriol tossed his way. don't think he got a fair shake there.
    "
    I have to say that Lee B was one of the few people that extended a real friendship too me, and lets be honest, a friendship between a young man and a middle aged woman on the other side of the pond, having never met is a little extraordinary. I wish I had given him my email before he was banned. And then after he was banned it was a little sickening to watch people picking over the carcass, calling him names and such. I miss him...
    If anyone here has contact details for Lee, could you arrange to put these two in touch please?
    Thanks

    Quote Posted by Icecold (here)
    LOL. It may not have anything to do with Admin or mods.

    Be aware that there are specialised people or AIs who have infiltrated this forum.

    There is some evidence being gathered by a few members, to suggest a far greater problem that email security breaches.

    What I'm saying is that it is not ADMIN and it is not MODS. Speculative at the moment, but becoming less so as evidence comes in.

    This is not a fantasy I'm afraid.
    Being a member elsewhere that suffers this on a regular basis, I have seen the signs before.
    I would agree with the assessment here, there are people here to stir.
    I don't know who they are, but you know what I do know?
    We have VERY perceptive people here who can feel who they are.
    I hope they can help us out.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan
    There are no bad people here. Only incompatibilities, human frailty in various forms, and strong differences of opinion that make it impossible for the continuity of a functioning team as currently structured. The world will continue, and so will Avalon, which is larger than any individual.

    I want to thank Richard for his hard work and commitment to the forum over a long period of time, which probably feels to him even longer. He is a good man, and he snapped.

    On my part, the final breakdown of trust happened when it was brought to my attention that he had shared with the other moderators that he intended to leave with a tell-all post that would be very deliberately negative and destructive. That may still come, but if it does, the vindictiveness that powers it will be transparent.

    I told him, when I spoke with him on the phone a few hours ago, that the call was his whether to leave with dignity - or to leave with negativity, bitterness, and a fully destructive action. He said he would indeed make that call, and ended the conversation. I hope that he makes the correct decision, for the sake of his own karma.

    I will terminate their accounts in 24 hours from now.

    I thank Richard sincerely here for his many hours of commitment to make the world a better place in this particular way in which he has been able to contribute. The pressures he has been under have been near-impossible to manage or balance. He has been torn in half with his fierce loyalty to his wife Celine, and his equally fierce loyalty to myself and the forum. They could not reasonably coexist in one person.

    Celine, like many of us, has her own internal battles to wage and her personal mountains to climb. But this forum is no longer the appropriate venue for that to be conducted in public view.

    The pressure Richard was under erupted in so much suppressed anger that it is self-evident that he must take his leave. I have contacted the hosting company to change all the passwords to the server and elsewhere. I cannot risk a moment of angry insanity which would destroy the heartfelt co-creation of many thousands of people over a long year of human experience in all its richness. I regret that I felt obliged to take that protective step, but it was the right thing to do.

    I regard all the moderators as my friends, and always have done. It's for them to choose whether to return my deep feeling of sincere fellowship. I expect a number of them to step down, and this is all fine. Beth has already done so, and I accepted her resignation, which she conveyed with all the dignity and grace that I would expect from her. I thank her here for her countless hours of hard work on behalf of you all, as I do Rich.

    As I wrote above, the world continues. In the meantime, I will not see this forum polluted by negative emotion, smears, innuendoes, and unjustified personal attack. If we want to create a better world, it has to start here, with each of us personally and with the way we relate to others. While that construction job is in progress, there may be certain people who we exclude from the worksite. Ultimately, of course, we are all in this together.

    With my best wishes to everyone ~ Bill
    Hello Avalonians,

    I feel sad and disappointed for what has happened here. My sadness and disappointment is not because of a few brow raising posts from Moderator Richard, and guest b-Lee, for I would wage they are better men than that; obviously they were having a moment of being ever so humanÖÖÖ.. havenít we all. My sadness and disappointment is because Mr. Ryan, who must stand his ground, and do what he thinks is best, because he is the captain of this ship, was not able to command a better ending than his decision to ask Moderator Richard to leave. For if we, as a small group of humans, claiming to want a better world with more respectful and loving relationships among our differences, canít work within respect and understanding of each otherís weaker moments, than I guess I have a teachable moment to show my students and clients why the world has been the way it has been, and will not change. How does that old saying go: the more things change the more they stay the same? What has happened on this forum, has happened in many spiritual and non spiritual groups over the years; and the result is always the same, the captain of the ship canít seem to read the charting of the waters clear enough to maneuver more skillfully in the beautiful rock bound coast, and so some good individuals end up being unnecessarily sacrificed like Moderators Richard and Beth.

    I admit I am speaking with no knowledge of the behind scene pms, or off forum politics, I can only base my opinion on my observation of what I have read on the forum for these past two months in which I have been a member. It appears that Mr. Ryan only sees metaphorical divorce, or is it self defense, to keep this forum in tact. Where is the personal and societal growth in that? But atlas, I speak in ignorance of the true facts behind Mr. Ryanís seemingly abrupt decision, without even sleeping on it, or allowing high emotions to cool down so that better clarity can be seen by all.

    I am wondering how Mr. Ryanís decision is any different than that of a corporate boss, when an employee commits their valuable time, loyalty, and talent to a company only to be fired over a somewhat trivial one day occurrence. The boss, in trying to seem civil, gives lip service of appreciation to the personís very real contribution, as he is booted out the door. The fired individual, who contributed his talent and time, can never get that time and energy investment back, while the company continues to happily feed off the fired personís unselfish contributions for years. So in the weighing of actions here in Avalon, is there bond a fide respect and true appreciation for Moderator Richard or is it all just pleasant lip service with no real meaning of any substance for his talent offered throughout these past two years?

    In the real world, where we want to strive to live and work in harmony isnít their something called giving a person slack when they are under pressure, especially an individual who has given so much? What person can possibly live their life in perfection? Isnít that why we give people warnings and where the saying, ďthree strikes and you are outĒ comes from? Even an animal will often growl to warn you, that you are bothering them, before they attack. I can understand, Mr. Ryan, you being ticked off to high heaven, and even perhaps embarrassed that one of your moderators would behave in such a manner. But was there really any permanent damage done? To my eyes, there wasnít. To my eyes this was an opportunity to show the world how to be human, and how to work out our differences because of our human side with dignity. Mr. Ryan posted earlier that he sees his role as the teacher. What did he use this very real life situation to teach? To me, it looks like Mr. Ryan took the stance of a surgeon, blinded by other viable and less extreme medical options; he just quickly severed the limb. Mr. Ryan doesnít appear to be such a rash man, so it makes me wonder how diseased this situation really is behind the scenes, and for how long this has been going on? And if it is that diseased behind the scenes, I am wondering how authenticate this forum really is?

    I have never exchanged posts with Moderator Richard, but I shall miss his presence on this site. Will Avalon continue on? yes; but Avalon would probably still have continued if Moderator Richard had stayed on as well. One can teach out of fear and dictatorship, Mr. Ryan, or one can teach through example, and hard work. Moderator Richard doesnít come across to me as much of a threat here on Avalon. Why did you give up on him so easily? Did Moderator Richard cross a line? May be he did a little ever so slightly; and perhaps real healing for this forum is a little understanding and true forgiveness, with a nice warning to not let it happen again, instead of instant excommunication of valuable individuals. But I canít help wonder what your part in all this was, Mr., Ryan, while executing your executive order. Maybe that is forum business and maybe it is not; I donít think we will ever know? Did you too perhaps cross a line or two?

    Oh my, another long post. I do apologize. On closing, I wish that to send good thoughts to Moderator Richard and his wife Celine, and to let you know I very much disagree with Mr. Ryanís hasty decision, And to Moderator Beth, I am so very sad to see you leave. Although, I only exchanged a few posts with you about your white and my black rock chickens, your presence was always one of loving peace that this forum, and the world canít have enough of. To just say thank you for all your time and talented devoted to this forum without some sort of real worldly substance of some kind seems to be such a kick in the stomach. I am so sorry that we havenít learned how to better deal with differences of opinions and human nature in a less destructive way. Perhaps our captain on this forum will take time to brainstorm a better command to this unfortunate bump in the road. Mr. Ryan says it will be fine if other moderators leave. It is true, the ship will go on if they leave, but forcing good people to walk the plank isnít healthy for any of us. Individuals do matter Mr. Ryan.

    Sometimes the whole is more important than the individual; but without nurturing and having the group protect good, ethical, talented individuals, then how healthy is the group?Ö. I give you the political parties of the world as an example. Could this event in Avalon be a small parallel of what is currently happening in Libya?

    Divided loyalty is such a hot issue that it can instantly kill any relationship or group. And a wise man understands that a manís first loyalty is to his wife and then to his children. If any man I know does not show that type of natural, hierarchal, obligation of loyalty, than what I fool I am to bring such a person into my life with such low ethics and lack of understanding of who they are responsible for. Maintaining peace doesnít always happen naturally, but to help it along, my daddy once told me to always choose to show the utmost respect for the bossís wife, and those of my associateís. When I read Mr. Ryanís comments about Moderator Richard being equally loyal to both him, and Miss Celene, I knew then that Mr. Ryan appeared to be swimming in emotional unstable waters in this situation. That indicates to me that Mr. Ryan could have anticipated this all happening weeks if not months before. I am sorry he didnít choose to take more defensive action by turning on the release value on the pressure cooker before the emotional eruption happenedÖ. all such a pity. So where is all this light and love and forgiveness that is so reverently about on this forum?

    All just my humble opinion,

    Sincerely,
    A very disappointed Mr. Davis,
    3/2/11
    Last edited by Paul; 2nd March 2011 at 13:12. Reason: fix quoting

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Well we all are going to be watching closely now says Tuza as she gallops into her pm box to delete all her private messages.
    LMAO @ Tuza

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Bill, will you be allowing back "GypsyWoman"?

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Lifesong (here)
    Bill, will you be allowing back "GypsyWoman"?
    I'll answer that question indirectly. One of the things I would like to know as a fact (one way or another) is whether or not Gypsy Woman was going nuts with justified rage and indignation because she knew for sure that her PMs were being read in the name of 'investigation'.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Dear Bill,

    I just wanted to say thank you for your bravery in this matter. I can't help but thinking you have had to 'be everything' to 'everyone' here at Avalon and what a shame that is. It must be very difficult to work under those circumstances.

    Celine, I am truly sorry you and Richard have been hurt in this matter and that you felt you had to bring this out in the open. However, I do ask that each of us remember that Bill is just a man, he has many nuances and is not infallible by any stretch of the imagination. We all have many sides to our nature and we each have to walk our own path, even if that means we fall out of step with each other. I do not know Richard or yourself, but I do feel that whatever your issues are/were, it is not acceptable to air them in the way that you did. It resolved nothing, it only served to pour salt on the wound.

    I understand Richard's devotion to you, but his knee-jerk reactions are best saved for a Friday night with the lager-louts down the pub. I wanted very much to defend Lee-B, not necessarily because I agreed with him, but because it was like watching a one-sided fight in the schoolyard. I hate to say that I was a coward, I refrained because Richard had the boxing gloves out and was on the defence to a point where I thought I would risk being flamed and/or a perma-ban. I didn't like my cowardly self very much last night. I'm not usually one to pass on by when I think someone needs help.

    Lastly, to Bill again, thank you for not revealing who PM'd you last night. You are a very decent man. For the sake of transparency (which so many of you feel is important right now) and in light of Bill's post, I have again found my courage (thanks Bill). The PM he quoted was from me, I sent it after I realised he had closed the thread. I stand by it.

    Mouse x

    One last thing...

    I would very much like to see the PM system remain. But I do not wish to see it abused again (if that was indeed the case). I spent many years as a secretary/PA. I was privy to a lot of information such as redundancies etc., if I were to abuse my position and reveal that information to my colleagues I would have faced immediate dismissal. I chose to walk away from that world because it didn't sit well with me. IMHO if a moderator cannot handle information that doesn't sit well with him/her, it is time to leave.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    My thoughts with regard to the topic of private messages:

    One of my dearest friends held a position for several months in which she processed and filed seized E-mails from varying individuals caught in large banking scandals. Last summer, she told me a story of two wealthy bankers committing fraud, and the private E-mails they sent to one-another.

    Before investigations were started against the two men, they were very open in their private messages, talking about every intimate detail of their crime. Once they realized a particular alphabet agency was looking into matters, they realized their E-mails between one-another would incriminate each-other, so they spent several days message back and forth about which message to erase, and which document to shred.

    It wasn't until a day or two before their arrests that they then realized they'd need to erase the messages they sent about erasing the messages they erased

    The moral of the story is simple. Private messages can be a good way to communicate freely and personally, but, as with any other form of conversation, what you say may haunt you.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Lifesong (here)
    Bill, will you be allowing back "GypsyWoman"?
    I'll answer that question indirectly. One of the things I would like to know as a fact (one way or another) is whether or not Gypsy Woman was going nuts with justified rage and indignation because she knew for sure that her PMs were being read in the name of 'investigation'.
    Compelled to post...damning sometimes feeling this way..i apologize..

    but the pvt messages (and skype and email) i saw about gypsy woman were ALL from a member who chose to share them because he feared she had very bad intentions towards YOU ...AVALON..and all of us....


    Just because it is possible to read PMs doesnt mean it is done... and Bill has succesfully distanced himself from any doubt that he knew about this so his credibility is sustained. Good Job.

    Richard works for a businessman from Hong Kong, as his right hand man (from techie to construction).... Just yesterday i stood there as a ceo was telling me how trust worthy my husband is...

    This is not in defense of my husbands heart..but in honor of it.

    Loyalty above everything except honor



    my husband is the most honorable man i know.
    Last edited by Celine; 2nd March 2011 at 13:32.

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    England Avalon Member DevilPigeon's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    a suggestion:

    as i mentioned in an earlier post, running SQL queries from the back-end base tables (usually using phpMyAdmin or similar) is probably the weak point of the forum... in fact, ANY forum. but this is only possible if whoever's attempting such a thing has sufficient privileges.

    isn't it just a case that permissions may need to be tightened? permissions can be set at both group/user levels if needed, and can be applied to whatever functions that person needs in the back-end.... the problem is, i don't know how these back-end permissions would affect the user's normal use of the forum, so i'm not the best one to ask... i'm just giving a general overview.

    i'm not saying anything nefarious has actually happened either, just saying that admin/moderator security may need to be addressed going forward.
    "Stop getting Bond wrong!" (Alan Partridge)

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Celine (here)
    Admins can read pm's/// stop lying to ppl
    If the Avalon admins can read Private Messages, this is the first I've ever heard of it. I appreciate the confirmation. This may now explain a great deal to quite a few people.

    The thought of deliberately looking into members' PMs had never occurred to me, and I did not think it was possible. You are correct: we are learning.
    Having 10+ years experience with forum software, the only way an admin could read PM's would be as follows:

    Change the targeted users account password and log in as that user to read thier PM's (This could be checked via the recorded ip logs against the user.)

    Second way, would be for the targeted user to give their password to an admin for them to login (again could be checked by logged ip)

    Other ways would be via phpmyadmin or by querying the stored database, but high level admin access to the hosting account would be required to do so, logs would show this also if set up correctly and said person has not cleaned up after themselves.

    Hope this helps and has not been posted ahead of the pages i have not read yet.
    --
    "One only has to create one's own joy with the people one loves. In the context of this, little else matters." - Bill Ryan

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Dale (here)
    The moral of the story is simple. Private messages can be a good way to communicate freely and personally, but, as with any other form of conversation, what you say may haunt you.
    Can you please clarify this:

    When a PM is deleted from this Forum system - is it removed?

    Or is it simply flagged with a status that it is no longer to be displayed?

    If the latter, then people rushing off to "delete" PMs could be quite pointless in the event someone still wanted to go look.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Thanks for your response, Bill.

    Of course, it's your forum and your responsibility to run it however you see fit.

    I fail to see the benefit of poison private messages, but then I've never sent nor received any... so what do I know? lol I tend to strive for transparency.

    I'll have to sit with this awhile I think, its all rather numbing, and disappointing all around.

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