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Thread: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

  1. Link to Post #141
    Ireland Avalon Member kesom's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    i know vbulliten out of the box needs an add on for the staff to view pm's BUT the administrator's can go on the server and retrieve ANY pm wether it is still in the mailbox or if it was deleted,they can also log in as members,they can do anything they are the system administrator afterall,every website is the same

    as for receiving pm's from people you dont like or want to recieve pm's from,there's an "add to ignore list" function in the software here on avalon which is very handy for such people,just go to there profile page by clicking on there name and then view profile and its just under their name

    i dont know what really has gone on behind the scenes here so i can only comment on whats been made public and i have to say that all the staff here have been nice to me whether ive been nice to them or not........ so i cant say a bad word about any of them

    i do think richard was right in his actions yesterday and i think he should be asked to stay

    i don't know the full public story on what happened with celine but i do know she has always been helpful and curtious towards me and i would not like to see her go either,i personally think from her posts that she is one of the most positive members here and some of her post just radiate

    i think you guy's should leave it for a few days to let the dust and emotions settle and sort this out between yourselves and show us and everyone else what the staff are made of,your friends are your family

    united front time,this is not too big to sort out and move on from

    my intention here is to help all of us

    peace K

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  3. Link to Post #142
    Norway Senior Administrator Tommy's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by fopa (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Celine (here)
    Admins can read pm's/// stop lying to ppl
    If the Avalon admins can read Private Messages, this is the first I've ever heard of it. I appreciate the confirmation. This may now explain a great deal to quite a few people.

    The thought of deliberately looking into members' PMs had never occurred to me, and I did not think it was possible. You are correct: we are learning.
    Having 10+ years experience with forum software, the only way an admin could read PM's would be as follows:

    Change the targeted users account password and log in as that user to read thier PM's (This could be checked via the recorded ip logs against the user.)

    Second way, would be for the targeted user to give their password to an admin for them to login (again could be checked by logged ip)

    Other ways would be via phpmyadmin or by querying the stored database, but high level admin access to the hosting account would be required to do so, logs would show this also if set up correctly and said person has not cleaned up after themselves.

    Hope this helps and has not been posted ahead of the pages i have not read yet.
    All above very true. Regarding logs: Most times the log only shows when a user logged in and perhaps made a query. However, since there are so many queries running through the DB during an hour (or a minute) the "query in question" would be almost impossible to identify among all the others.
    When checking access logs one might see that a certain person logged in at a given time, but rarely (unless set up independently) it will let you know what the user did.. Very difficult.. Hence why this is a difficult subject I suppose.

    Sensitive stuff, in every regard, that is for sure..

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Choosing to be more of an observer than an active participant, it was obvious that something was going on here. Some people were baited to keep them from speaking their truth; threads were suddenly closed or merged, disturbing the flow of the individual conversations; questions of pm's being read and spread around...at one point I pm'd someone wondering aloud whether the mods were planning a mutiny just by what they chose to let continue or shut down.

    I dislike politics immensely and choose not to take sides. Being new, I have not made emotional investments in people....I'm here to share and to grow, nothing more and nothing less. Injustice disturbs me and I, for one, am thankful things are being brought into the light of day from the darkness that's been operating here.

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    El Salvador Avalon Member SHAPE's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    If Richard is around, would you be making a statement or comment ?


    Peace and Love

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    Avalon Member Caterpillars Lens's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Dear Mr Ryan, Dear Avalonians!
    Our world is changing rapidly right now, everything we use to know and relay on is is fluctuating, our focus is shifting and amount of informations we receive right now heats up our brains and sometimes cooks out hearts.
    While we are standing with our arms open to the grounds of new beginning yet still rooted in our present we need to realize that to make this shift as a positive experience we are about to learn to forgive ourselves and others.
    I'd hope this exercise could be done right now in the Avalon - Let's start all over again and lets forgive each other.
    In my personal dream I see that Richard and Celine would stay, and get new clean slate, maybe just as regular members?
    What has happened, has happened - now is the time to learn from this and now is the time to take a true action of love and forgiveness, because only on this fundaments we can create something truly remarkable,
    With best wishes to everyone,
    CL
    Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is to go where they can find you.
    Winnie the Pooh

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    I know this goes much deeper than what I am aware of or care to be aware of. I find myself in need of deep breathing. To err is human; to forgive, divine.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by perfectresonance (here)
    Quote Posted by Dale (here)
    The moral of the story is simple. Private messages can be a good way to communicate freely and personally, but, as with any other form of conversation, what you say may haunt you.
    Can you please clarify this:

    When a PM is deleted from this Forum system - is it removed?

    Or is it simply flagged with a status that it is no longer to be displayed?

    If the latter, then people rushing off to "delete" PMs could be quite pointless in the event someone still wanted to go look.

    The forum options needs to be configured to true delete messages or this is a breach of trust.

  14. Link to Post #148
    Cambodia Avalon Member ExHaLaTiON's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    The question is - How strong are we?

    Answer - More then you can imagine

    Lets focus and understand why we are all here. Humans use less than 10 percent of their brains , lets try and tap into the rest of it.

    No need to make things intricate.
    Is it your true self talking? Or is it your programmed self? Why do you spend hard earned money to look a certain way? Seriously. What made you think you have to look the way you look? Or sound the way you sound? People are self conscious because we've been trained that way. Perfect little consumers. Pets. Domesticated humans

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    When people get upset they lash out at love ones, This is the end result of something that has been building up for a couple of months. Its never nice to see people leave, and its not nice to see someone having to make a choice that is hard for them and the community.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    if my thanking peoples posts is bothering anyone i am sorry...but i find it is better then responding to each one..

    There are paths out there for all of us.

    Our path has changed but the goal has not.

    We cannot work for..or with..people who have no honor.

    But we will work with people who honor the heart..and Avalonians do that better then most.

    This goal is far to important to be caught up in ego... i am learning immemsly and am grateful for this..

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  20. Link to Post #151
    UK Avalon Member Steph's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Celine (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Lifesong (here)
    Bill, will you be allowing back "GypsyWoman"?
    I'll answer that question indirectly. One of the things I would like to know as a fact (one way or another) is whether or not Gypsy Woman was going nuts with justified rage and indignation because she knew for sure that her PMs were being read in the name of 'investigation'.
    Compelled to post...damning sometimes feeling this way..i apologize..

    but the pvt messages (and skype and email) i saw about gypsy woman were ALL from a member who chose to share them because he feared she had very bad intentions towards YOU ...AVALON..and all of us....


    Just because it is possible to read PMs doesnt mean it is done... and Bill has succesfully distanced himself from any doubt that he knew about this so his credibility is sustained. Good Job.

    Richard works for a businessman from Hong Kong, as his right hand man (from techie to construction).... Just yesterday i stood there as a ceo was telling me how trust worthy my husband is...

    This is not in defense of my husbands heart..but in honor of it.

    Loyalty above everything except honor



    my husband is the most honorable man i know.
    Dear Celine, please do not misunderstand me, I do not doubt Richard's loyalty or integrity to you or the CEO of the corporation in Japan that he works for. However, do you think that if this CEO happened to see Richard's behavior last night, he would be impressed? I think not. In fact, the Japanese abhor emotional displays like that, it would be severely frowned upon. Actually, I don't think the Japanese like frowning either, but you get the point.

    I really do commend you in defending your husband, and I know you are sincere in your apology. What about Richard? Does he feel his behaviour was acceptable?

    Mouse

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    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    G'day All,

    I would like to wish those who are leaving all the best.
    I would like to wish those who are staying all the best.

    To those who believe that an all powerful malevolent force is unable to break the sql tables on a forum, or that it respects your "in box" privacy settings, I suggest a re-evaluation of your personal security system...

    Too clarify: In no way am I insinuating that any member present/past or future is a malevolent force... Nor am I implying that said malevolent force is in fact malevolent from its perspective... Merely that the interpretation of said malevolent force from the perspective of someone who doesn't care may well be malevolent as understood from the world view/perspective of a pigeon...

    You all get the humour I hope... Unless you're a malevolent force...

    Nearly 1 am here...
    I am once again going to sleep now and hope this is all over by the time I next log in.

    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Celine (here)
    This goal is far to important to be caught up in ego... i am learning immemsly and am grateful for this..
    Celine, I have to say that I admire the way you are owning up and learning, there is a lesson for us all here, it's not an easy thing to do. I hear you!
    Last edited by Donna O; 2nd March 2011 at 14:08.

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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    I've no idea that any of this happened.

    All I know is that to my observance.... if GypsyWoman was contributing to anything on this forum . division and brawls broke out, wherever she went. Her story about never contributing to a forum before did not ring true to me. At all.

    I was flat out not interested in any word from her. At all. I did not find her energy as being constructive for the forum's intent. .

    I mean, the idea of starting a 'rant thread' and then those who miss the point of this forum telling me that it should exist (a rant thread). The whole point of the forum is to bring balanced thought to it .....and specifically -not rants.

    But all that is.... just me.
    Last edited by Carmody; 2nd March 2011 at 14:00.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Icecold (here)
    The forum options needs to be configured to true delete messages or this is a breach of trust.
    Whether or not there is a breech of trust depends on what people do, not on some technical setting.

    If the admins with access to the backend server, including backups, choose to act untrustworthy, then they could, I presume, find most anything. No user accessible delete option is going to reach out into the database backups.

    There is an important distinction here. Short of serious crypto, our trust ultimately lies in the people, not the systems.

    To suggest that some software setting or other brands the people as breeching trust (in large bold letters no less) is provoking fear where it is not well placed.

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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    G'day BILL,

    I am sorry about what has gone on here lately, for all involved.

    I don't really expect anybody to listen to me, nobody knows me, I'm just a new person around here and don't really know anybody either but I do like Avalon and thats why I came here, to seek more answers.

    We all know human nature well enough and all its downfalls so no need to go into that over and over again, and we all know what happens when we let our ego's take over so no need for that conversation either.

    Its very rough on the people involved in the skirmish and easier to see from outside the circle what is happening but its all just a trap of sorts humans get into, its been happening since time for us began.

    We must all not forget they(ptw) will try every trick in the book(and some we don't know yet) to shut us down or weaken us so they can continue there plans, people have come into Avalon to upset us, its blatently obvious, big cross hairs on us.

    Bill Ryan, you are a good man, you have shown many people that over the years, but you are as human as all of us are.

    Richard, I think you are a good man as well, you showed a softer side to you recently that many men would not ever show ( Butterfly) that is true strength and respect for humanity, you are also only a man.

    Celine, you are love and loyalty to Avalon and your husband, you are only a woman and human and a mother( mothers protect their own).

    I don't blame any of you for the way you reacted, its only human and with the way we have been used and manipulated over the last couple of thousand years( make that maybe 200+thousand years) its not entirely our fault, its bred into us, not to mention the ELF psyops they are using on all of us poor bastards on this planet.

    Richard, grab Celine and the kids and grand kiddies and piss off out into a forest or find a beach or snow lodge and have a holiday for the weekend or just have a break from the stress and bloody switch off for a while mate, you've not really done a bad thing but stuck up for your beliefs which any of us would do, just don't drive your car out onto a frozen lake, sheesh freaks me out! (LOL)

    Celine, don't let them get at you, your smarter than that girl, don't bite the bait they throw at you, flick it off with your finger as if it was an insignificant piece of rubbish the wind blew onto your shoulder.

    BILL, please give Richard a chance to redeem himself he is only a man, he does have patience, we can all see that but everybody has only a limited amount in these meat suits we have to wear here this trip.

    We all need to see transperancy from now on, have pm's but every needs to act like the adults we know we really are, we need to stick together now more than anything, Beth and all the others need to come back and we can sort it out like a family, even families have problems.

    If we are a model for a new beginning then we need to be able to get our sh#t together and quickly, we know they are going to have another go at us anytime they want to and we must be prepared for that.

    Every mod, admin and Bill, if you see something you don't like, say so! bring it out in the open and we will be able to stop the infiltrators before it gets out of hand, A round table conferance if you will.

    Bearing in mind with the technology they have, nothing is really private is it, Crikey! they can look through our walls in our homes and listen to us taking a dump if that turns the sick f@@kers on, so be aware what you say people, remember what we are up against.

    Just think how bad it would be if you had bombs dropping on your house like some people in the world are putting up with at the moment, and we are arguing about he said she said stuff for crying out loud, yes it hurts to those involved, love and healing energy sent to you all from me, now pick your selves up and march on with your heads up high, we are Avalonians not unawake sheeple, we have to wake sheeple up not get down on there level again with problems doggin us.

    BILL, please talk to Richard,and Beth and the others, kiss each other, punch each other, head butt each other, but sort it out, we can't let our team fall apart and let them bloody win an inch.

    Celine, come back, but don't fall for the sh#t, we all know how much you care, your just a big care bear, you can't help yourself and there's nothing wrong with that.

    BILL, Richard,Beth,Mods,Celine, come on what do you say? have a break and calm down, a good sleep or two and we can can carry on the fight against them NOT between ourselves.

    Keep it honest and open and nice and we can all do what we are here for, not let them get in amongst us like a fox in the hen house.

    Well thats all I've got for now, what do you say people.

    ..Nick..

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  32. Link to Post #157
    Palestinian Territory Unsubscribed
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Quote Posted by Mouse (here)
    Quote Posted by Celine (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Lifesong (here)
    Bill, will you be allowing back "GypsyWoman"?
    I'll answer that question indirectly. One of the things I would like to know as a fact (one way or another) is whether or not Gypsy Woman was going nuts with justified rage and indignation because she knew for sure that her PMs were being read in the name of 'investigation'.
    Compelled to post...damning sometimes feeling this way..i apologize..

    but the pvt messages (and skype and email) i saw about gypsy woman were ALL from a member who chose to share them because he feared she had very bad intentions towards YOU ...AVALON..and all of us....


    Just because it is possible to read PMs doesnt mean it is done... and Bill has succesfully distanced himself from any doubt that he knew about this so his credibility is sustained. Good Job.

    Richard works for a businessman from Hong Kong, as his right hand man (from techie to construction).... Just yesterday i stood there as a ceo was telling me how trust worthy my husband is...

    This is not in defense of my husbands heart..but in honor of it.

    Loyalty above everything except honor



    my husband is the most honorable man i know.
    Dear Celine, please do not misunderstand me, I do not doubt Richard's loyalty or integrity to you or the CEO of the corporation in Japan that he works for. However, do you think that if this CEO happened to see Richard's behavior last night, he would be impressed? I think not. In fact, the Japanese abhor emotional displays like that, it would be severely frowned upon. Actually, I don't think the Japanese like frowning either, but you get the point.

    I really do commend you in defending your husband, and I know you are sincere in your apology. What about Richard? Does he feel his behaviour was acceptable?

    Mouse
    In Japan, they don't like emotional displays, this is true, but remember, this is also the same nation that in their history, honour was all.
    To lose honour was to be a dead man walking.
    To stand and fight on a point of honour wasn't a good thing or bad thing, it was the mark of the man.
    By the way, did I tell you how much I enjoy Japanese culture and history? Excellent people.
    Oh, and the food? Damn, love it.
    Except they don't have carrots, organic or not.

  33. Link to Post #158
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    The Course in Miracles has some gems
    One is,
    "We are never angry for the reason we think we are"

    What happened last night was the culmination of many things of which I know not what.

    In addition there are many energies coming in from the solar system that the human mind and body are not used to handling.

    I had a residential home for he elderly and I used to dread the full moon.
    Those who had Alzheimer were greatly affected. lovely old dears became threatening and sometimes even violent.

    To err is human to forgive Divine
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  35. Link to Post #159
    Canada Deactivated
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Hong Kong is china...

    and this CEO is Quebecois...

    The point was that Bill...Knows Richard very well...and knows why it came to this.

    Richard rarely acts out like that..he did to honor me.

    Bill knows this.

    If Bill had spoken to me the way he did (and still is to others) to my face..Richard would have punched him..

    and ANY real man i know...would have understood why....even if maybe they dont condone violence..

    I dont care how ****ed up i am... you do not ..take down a mans woman like that and not expect a reaction.

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  37. Link to Post #160
    United States Avalon Member aikisaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

    Hey Bill,

    I'm sure you have had better days.

    I'm rather new here and do not fully understand the disagreements and where they got their start.

    I'm seeing you and Avalon are losing valuable members, some who consider you their friend. They are all convinced that they are trying to help you. They all seem convinced you are not listening to them and their concerns. These people were once valuable allies to you and these forums. They are hurting themselves to get your attention.

    Does their cause for concern have merit? Are you missing something that seems obvious to your friends?


    If it is time for these friendships to end then so be it. If these people are truly looking out for you ........maybe they stay.

    This is your decision, only you know what happened with these relationships.

    I wish you and all involved the best however it turns out.

    I think what is offered here is valuable and important. I will be staying regardless.

    Peace to you

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