An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

[Janos]

I deleted my first post for a very important reason.

I was operating under the understanding that Richard was being PAID for his services.

In such a situation, the 'employee' must do as the 'employer' wishes, including following any and all company rules, policies, or guidelines, or face termination.

What we have here, is a case where people have sacrificed YEARS of their time in some cases, free of charge, in order to help a project they believed in.

So, to sum it up:

Employee = Paid for services rendered.

Volunteer = Sacrifices own time to render services.

So this admin and these mods have been giving freely of their own time, the entire time, and have been put through hell and back.

At the very, absolute least, every single one of them deserves a round of applause and thanks for their hard work, dedication, and effort.

You cannot hold a volunteer to the same standards as a person being paid to render services. In fact, you should be kissing them for the time they've taken out of their lives to render said services unto you and the community as a whole.

In light of these above revelations, you are dead wrong, Bill, in asking them to leave.

We've already hemorrhaged some of our top talent that runs the nuts and bolts of the board.

Many have stepped down as mods. There is much more to this than you are telling us.

Please do not continue to treat the membership like mushrooms. (Keep us in the dark and feed us ****)

These people have sacrificed a great deal for you, and deserve much better treatment than this.

Celine has asked for forgiveness earlier in this thread. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a response.

Works of darkness happen in the shadows. Works of light happen in the light.

Let's shine some light in here and shake the bag, and find out what drops out, shall we?

[Agape]

Look someone is sending you a message ...





Mumbai, Feb 18 (PTI) Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama today said "secular ethics" and dialogue would ensure that the 21st century is peaceful.

"Although the development of science and technology was taking place since 18th century, the 20th century was witnessed as a century of blood. However, the 21st century will be a century of dialogues to bring world peace," he said addressing neurosurgeons and scientists from around the globe at the Taj Hotel here.

The Tibetan spiritual leader was speaking after inaugurating the three-day convention of Acadamecia Eurasiana Neurochirurgica--''Holistic approach to the realm of Neurosurgery''.

"Use of violence will not bring peace and it has to be through dialogues in the 21st century" (that peace can be ensured)," he said.

It is also important to practise "secular ethics" to restrain use of destructive power in these modern times, he said, adding that all these require peace of mind.

The world has to learn from the 1000-year-old tradition of secular ethics in India. India should also play an active role in promoting non-violence and secular ethics in the world community, he said.

"Non-violence is not a sign of weakness but is a sign of strength."

Emphasising need to keep the mind calm, the spiritual leader said, too much of emotions, anger, jealousy, fear and corruption are signs of "negativity".

"We must find solutions (as to) how to overcome these negativities through holistic approach without touching the religious basis," he added.

Promotion of ethics in a secular way, as in the Indian Constitution, is important for the world today, he said.

The Dalai Lama said, "Youth should have a realistic view on any goal. Unrealistic approach will only lead to confusion and bias. One must look at every problem from various angles... and analyse them objectively."

"Education and information alone are not sufficient to see anything objectively. It is the calm mind that will help see things with clarity," he added.

The Dalai Lama also said that in the last 30 years, on account of his curiosity, he had met scientists from various fields, but he was interested in four subjects in particular -- cosmology, neurobiology, quantum physics and psychology.

Scientists from various laboratories including that of Standford and Wisconsin Universities in US are doing work on ''training of mind'', he said.

"Some scientists even told me that constant fear, constant anxiety and stress eat up the immune system of humans," he said.




Don't be afraid

[Northern Boy]

Zookie integrity is a thing one never wants to misplace or lose

[Maria Stade]

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Maria Stade (here)
Yes this carrot message is it about the protection, now when the sun is going vilde ??


Shine bright all !

All Love (and carrots)

I love learning new words. What is vilde?

Love and carrots.
( I just might juice some)

Vilde=wild?

Ha ha Ops Swedish !

Yes wilde ! Thank you Modwitz

I just want you all to think with no judgement !

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_3z7Uu8ClYs

We all have to face the consequences of our actions !

Cause and effect !

Blame games dose not change anything !

The change starts with in.

All Love

[Inelia]

Posted by Janos (here)
I deleted my first post for a very important reason.

I was operating under the understanding that Richard was being PAID for his services.

In such a situation, the 'employee' must do as the 'employer' wishes, including following any and all company rules, policies, or guidelines, or face termination.

What we have here, is a case where people have sacrificed YEARS of their time in some cases, free of charge, in order to help a project they believed in.

So, to sum it up:

Employee = Paid for services rendered.

Volunteer = Sacrifices own time to render services.

So this admin and these mods have been giving freely of their own time, the entire time, and have been put through hell and back.

At the very, absolute least, every single one of them deserves a round of applause and thanks for their hard work, dedication, and effort.

You cannot hold a volunteer to the same standards as a person being paid to render services. In fact, you should be kissing them for the time they've taken out of their lives to render said services unto you and the community as a whole.

In light of these above revelations, you are dead wrong, Bill, in asking them to leave.

We've already hemorrhaged some of our top talent that runs the nuts and bolts of the board.

Many have stepped down as mods. There is much more to this than you are telling us.

Please do not continue to treat the membership like mushrooms. (Keep us in the dark and feed us ****)

These people have sacrificed a great deal for you, and deserve much better treatment than this.

Celine has asked for forgiveness earlier in this thread. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a response.

Works of darkness happen in the shadows. Works of light happen in the light.

Let's shine some light in here and shake the bag, and find out what drops out, shall we?

I think that Bill encapsulated the problem in the sentence below. At no point has Richard's commitment, loyalty and hard work been questioned:

I thank Richard sincerely here for his many hours of commitment to make the world a better place in this particular way in which he has been able to contribute. The pressures he has been under have been near-impossible to manage or balance. He has been torn in half with his fierce loyalty to his wife Celine, and his equally fierce loyalty to myself and the forum. They could not reasonably coexist in one person.

[Northern Boy]

They could not reasonably coexist in one person.

Yet they did and for a long time it was unfair to ask this of Richard But it was allowed to happen otherwise

[Agape]

See, it's all mind tricks. Watch your own mind and see how it's all beautiful.

Fix the airlock . Brush your teeth. Have a good time generally ..


I am leaving the planet on soonest possible date, anyone with honey cakes at the Ship is welcome. Peace always

Truth will trick you if you have ever tricked. The basic principle of Chakrasamwara tantra is : Don't manipulate the life force...

Don't touch the machine. Close the machine. Go to sleep. Get it clear for once

[13th Warrior]

Posted by Zook (here)
Good Morning Good Avalon Good Bill,

Bill, I think it unfortunate that you took this course of action with respect to Richard and Celine. You owe them both an apology, at the very least.

I came to Avalon about six months ago because I believed in your integrity. I believed in the man in the famous hat that I had seen in all those videos. I trusted in his view of the world, and in the way he treated people. A genteel soul and a group leader. Sadly, I must leave now because the illusion of an enlightened soul and a gentle man ... has been replaced with the tragic reality of a man burdened with ego, beset with misguided purpose, quick to throw friends under the bus, never admitting to fallibility when his mistakes are pointed out to him, overrules consensus decisions arrived by the moderating staff to protect the integrity and charter of Avalon ... in short, an autocrat. I think you were a good man - and deep inside, may still be a good man ... but you have clearly lost your way. I would be delinquent in my duty as an Avalonian, and as a friend to the genuinely great people and passengers on the ship of Avalon (that I have come to respect and love) ... if I kept silent on these observations.

The Ship of Avalon is a volunteer argosy. We are all here with our time and energy to try and make the sail a clean one, an informational one, an adventurous one. The charter is is essentially round table in design (e.g. a ship of equals); but even a ship of equals requires a crew. And Bill, to your credit, you were a good Captain for much of the early voyage. But sometimes, in the fog, even good captains lose their way. Unless there is a lighthouse to warn of danger, the ship will run aground in the night. To this, the moderating team was that lighthouse ... aboard the ship but also on the boulders of the rugged shore. Two places at once. And in that lighthouse - while I've been here - Richard was the large light bulb. Without his dedication and love for the ship and voyage, this sail would've grounded long ago. I have not one bad word to say against him. And if you had been thinking clearly, neither would you. Celine is a good heart. I know her basically through her posts on Avalon as you all do. I have only positive things to say about her, also. If she has a fault, maybe it is being too open with her heart. But that's not really a fault as much as an inconvenience to those not used to loving energy. Certainly, Avalonians could use some love these days.

I made the final decision to deMOD myself after I'd seen this post of yours today. It reeks of throwing a good faithful friend under the bus - who's always had the best interests of Avalon and yourself at heart ... and promoting yourself as the white knight riding in to save Avalon. Sorry ... I've always been a straight shooting son of a hitch (Mom and Dad got together in 1962) ... and so i have to call it like I see it, whatever the consequences. Something has happened to you Bill. I don't know what. But it has taken a good man to bad places. Only you can fix yourself and your compunction for autocracy. Maybe then, you will be right again to captain this ship to the adventures on the high seas. I say this with all good intentions for you. Even as I leave the Avalon crew alongside other good people - all exceptional souls - I wish you the very best in the future.

Humble opinions all around.



ps: To all Avalonians, including those I've disagreed with in the past ... you have my love and respect.

ps2: In the end, it wasn't a gypsy ... or one to kill a mocking bird ... it was AUTOCRACY.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
--------
Dear Friends:

Many of you will have seen the WORM TONGUE thread that was started yesterday by Celine.

If you have not, you may need quite a strong stomach to wade through it to the end.

I closed it as soon as it was brought to my attention.

This is an extract from one of many PMs that I received after I closed it:

Dear Bill,

I was waiting for the cavalry to show - thanks for that. I'm not privy to what's going on, it's not important and I do not need to know. Suffice to say, I've seen nothing less than a witch-hunt going on here today/tonight and it's been awful (disgusting is more apt). I have never seen moderators behave this way, ever. For a member to be told to feck off by a senior moderator is well... I have no words.

I understand that I am a new member to your forum and so cannot expect to know all personalities yet and how they interact or choose to present themselves, but I can tell you that I expected more from some of our senior members, it's left me speechless.

Amen to that. I have asked Richard to leave the forum. It is no longer appropriate that he holds the position he has done for quite a long while. I here ask Celine to leave with him and to take their energies elsewhere. I am making this call, and the call is mine alone, and I believe that the forum will now settle down to a significant degree in the days and weeks to come.

None of the other moderators have been involved in this decision, although I know that some of them are in full agreement with me. Others will protest: an understandable result of conflict of loyalties based on long friendship - and they may also leave. That is all fine.

There are no bad people here. Only incompatibilities, human frailty in various forms, and strong differences of opinion that make it impossible for the continuity of a functioning team as currently structured. The world will continue, and so will Avalon, which is larger than any individual.

I want to thank Richard for his hard work and commitment to the forum over a long period of time, which probably feels to him even longer. He is a good man, and he snapped.

On my part, the final breakdown of trust happened when it was brought to my attention that he had shared with the other moderators that he intended to leave with a tell-all post that would be very deliberately negative and destructive. That may still come, but if it does, the vindictiveness that powers it will be transparent.

I told him, when I spoke with him on the phone a few hours ago, that the call was his whether to leave with dignity - or to leave with negativity, bitterness, and a fully destructive action. He said he would indeed make that call, and ended the conversation. I hope that he makes the correct decision, for the sake of his own karma.

I will terminate their accounts in 24 hours from now.

I thank Richard sincerely here for his many hours of commitment to make the world a better place in this particular way in which he has been able to contribute. The pressures he has been under have been near-impossible to manage or balance. He has been torn in half with his fierce loyalty to his wife Celine, and his equally fierce loyalty to myself and the forum. They could not reasonably coexist in one person.

Celine, like many of us, has her own internal battles to wage and her personal mountains to climb. But this forum is no longer the appropriate venue for that to be conducted in public view.

The pressure Richard was under erupted in so much suppressed anger that it is self-evident that he must take his leave. I have contacted the hosting company to change all the passwords to the server and elsewhere. I cannot risk a moment of angry insanity which would destroy the heartfelt co-creation of many thousands of people over a long year of human experience in all its richness. I regret that I felt obliged to take that protective step, but it was the right thing to do.

I regard all the moderators as my friends, and always have done. It's for them to choose whether to return my deep feeling of sincere fellowship. I expect a number of them to step down, and this is all fine. Beth has already done so, and I accepted her resignation, which she conveyed with all the dignity and grace that I would expect from her. I thank her here for her countless hours of hard work on behalf of you all, as I do Rich.

As I wrote above, the world continues. In the meantime, I will not see this forum polluted by negative emotion, smears, innuendoes, and unjustified personal attack. If we want to create a better world, it has to start here, with each of us personally and with the way we relate to others. While that construction job is in progress, there may be certain people who we exclude from the worksite. Ultimately, of course, we are all in this together.

With my best wishes to everyone ~ Bill

Peace be with you my brothers and sisters!

This mutiny of the ship of Avalon by the Moderators throws a harsh light onto the reality of the situation. This problem does indeed go much deeper than a single incident...

I extend my hand in thanks to the Volunteer Mods for having performing a truely thankless job.

Thank you Zook for having the courage to speak your mind freely...Much Respect!!!

[SteveX]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
--------

Dear Friends:
SNIPPED from Bills opening post

On my part, the final breakdown of trust happened when it was brought to my attention that he had shared with the other moderators that he intended to leave with a tell-all post that would be very deliberately negative and destructive. That may still come, but if it does, the vindictiveness that powers it will be transparent.

And yet no one finds this noteworthy to comment on. Unbelievable, on a forum like this. Talk about gross misconduct...come on guys....gawd sake.


Celine, like many of us, has her own internal battles to wage and her personal mountains to climb. But this forum is no longer the appropriate venue for that to be conducted in public view.

With my best wishes to everyone ~ Bill

Bill.

I'm hands up here. I've no love for Celine or Richards after whitnessing things on your forum. As far as i'm concerned your action is about a year too late and cost a few good guys.

My opinion is this. There's plenty of folk banned at the hands of Celines threads / posts and Richard cover ups. I'm just amazed many folk here havent seen / discerned it, considering how many deleted threads there are with Celine in them / posting them. I've PM'ed Richard a couple of times on his bias to let Celines threads ride..cause hostility, I've seen lesser decisive threads closed down... from the get go.

For me there has been a problem in this forum, where free speach is concered, because of the reaction of Celine and her posts and ulimutly her husbands reactions / mod powers, when she's challenged...Intellectually or otherwise.

Jai has posted more elliquently than I could have ever had about Celine.



Dear Celine,

I have never written on any thread of yours or replied to any comment. That is because your way of writing to any one who knows anything about psychology is dangerous. I am known for being direct and some people find that rude. When I lived in Beverly Hills I was known as the token authentic woman and you don't ask Jai unless you really want an answer. Putting this thread up the way you have is asking for what I am going to tell you.

You never say what you mean or mean what you say. It is all so ethereal that I have no idea what you are talking about most of the time. I soon decided after coming here to stay away from your threads. I know how much PMing you do, and chatting, and phone calling. You are everywhere. Enough so that I run into you in-spite of not wanting to get involved in this in any way.

I consider it a big deal to accuse anyone publicly or privately of not having integrity. I think it is a form of slander to say someone broke their word to you and then not say exactly the why and how. In Bill Ryan's case--this man is an international reporter with a body of work and a lifetime of acquiring skills. You are threatening all that. You are saying he has major biases we are not aware of. You are saying he does not have a core of integrity we can trust and that he is two faced. These are serious accusations with no evidence to back them up other than you are a person of love.

Well let me tell you something, a person of love does not do what you are doing. I can only judge you by your actions. Your actions are emotionally based. You require and solicit a lot of stroking. That is very up front and anyone with an kind of awareness knows that about you. I don't have a problem with it. People choose or not to participate in that.

It is a problem when it gets out of hand, when the need for being psychologically petted requires that every one else be diminished. I am also an old lady with a body of work and I value my integrity. I have not spoken to either you or Richard in any way. As a mod, he tells me he is in danger of "snapping."

You tell me he works 40 hours a week on this site out of the goodness of his heart. Altruism is done because it feels good. Both of you have huge identity issues with this site. I do not experience the people here as needing the amount of "modification" that goes on here. It is because someone is awaysl stirring up that pot that it requires all this seasoning and putting the lid on and off. Everybody needs to just stop playing these games. It is no different than who are the powers that be in Avalon?

I have news for you and people who think like you. There are no powers that be at Avalon and there will never be. That is because as I understand Bill, he held out to the Universe that he was willing to serve a need. He does that by listening and letting things unfold. This is a time of confusion and chaos. Focus cannot be forced nor can conclusions. We need time to learn how to do this. Time to learn who each other is. Time to become grounded in a higher power. This is what I experience Bill holding out. This is what I experience Bill attracting. The minute that stops--Avalon will again stop. We are all part of the process--even Bill.

You are the most prolific poster here. I find most of it to be nonsense. It serves your needs and not the needs of the site. I say this knowing full well the flack I am going to get over this. What is the Divine Feminine--she serves the needs of the planet. She weaves webs of support and love and understanding. It is not me and my husband against the world. It is not my way or the highway.

It is explaining why something is working or not working. It is taking a solid position so no one can have any doubt of what is going on. Your behavior has led me to distrust some of the people I most found an affinity for from the beginning. I will have to work all this out with time.

I am telling you that you need to rethink your behavior, your accusations, your positions, and your presentations.

In case you have never heard this before, from Ralph Waldo Emerson, what you are speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.

I speak for wanting this site to succeed and to do that it needs wisdom, compassion, and time. Are you committed to that?

I have written this as my answering a call of the universe as I understand it. It is my intention that it bring more healing than dissension. I am a nurse by profession--there are wounds that need to be cut and drained and cleaned in order for healing to take place. I see this as one of them.

My deepest sympathy and empathy to all of us experiencing this.

Jai

[granny]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by granny (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Ahkenaten (here)
Hey Lord Siduous, what is with all the carrots anyway? Are you looking for some rabbits?

Nothing like a sharpened organic carrot up your nose to make you think about something else, no?

Lord, please display the carrots again ... some never learn! I know I am afraid. LOL
Gran

Here ya go Gran, not sharpened yet. All this peacemaking has worn me out, so off to bed I go.
I will sharpen em up when I wake up next week.

Posted by humanalien (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Some of us seem determined to keep the fires going, but watch out.
Here comes Uncle Sidious with his organic carrot flavoured fire retardent.

Can you put that on my potato chips?

I could fly by and have a go, but if I do, I could wash you into the next county.

Oh what exquisite beauty. MeThinks I am a rabbit.

[Northern Boy]

Steve why not just quote the post rather then hand type it Seems rather redundant and you and Jia do not know the circumstances surrounding the post Celine made so who are you to judge. Bill may have the knowledge to answer yet no one has asked him (for a change) what he thinks so have at it he is reading this thread now ask him via PM

[Hiram]

Dear All,

I appreciate the clarification offered here by Bill, with regards to Richard and Celine's parting.

I can attest that the pressures of moderating and administrating a forum of this size are immense, and Richard has been the primary Admin for some time. Richard has performed his tasks and duties with the utmost respect and professionalism and the events leading up to this situation have been brewing for some time. I have only kind things to say about about them both.

Out of respect for Richard and Celine as friends, as well as the very tight circle of moderators which we have here, I will refrain from commenting on the situation further. I also do this out of respect for Bill and what he has done--this effort cannot be overlooked.

It is a very difficult situation for a moderator to be in...as one user above pointed out, it is a voluntary duty.

I am going to be taking some time away to think.

Yet, I will remain on Avalon as always, and I hope I may continue to contribute in whatever way I can--however barring any unforeseen events, I will be doing this without a Mod-hat on.

I believe strongly in what we do here...sharing with each other.

That will continue.

In the light of the One,

Hiram

[Shairia]

For me there has been a problem in this forum, where free speach is concered, because of the reaction of Celine and her posts and ulimutly her husbands reactions / mod powers, when she's challenged...Intellectually or otherwise.

I've no love for Richard or Celine, honestly my attempts to get to know them failed, but this is really LOW!!!!! Can't you make your points without insulting someone?

[sleepy]

"Bill may have the knowledge to answer yet no one has asked him (for a change) what he thinks so have at it he is reading this thread now ask him via PM "
NorthernBoy,

How do you know who has PM'd Bill? I only ask because I did and I learned alot. : )

[granny]

[QUOTE=modwiz;162968]

Posted by witchy1 (here)

i try not to hate.... but i really hate politics!

and mosquitos

Only the ones that bite.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

[QUOTE=granny;162962]

Posted by Levent tonga (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by Northern Boy;

[
[U
#321[/U] Dennis if need be i could tell you things about Celine and Richard that would in fact allow you to understand to a greater depth of what`s going on then you are aware of It would change many heres opinion of this site and as far as Bill goes he is not the man you see on camera or here in this forum there is another side to him you will never know

All this friggening talk of ego take your Eckhart Tolle crap and shove it. There is an even larger problem going on here its called blind stupidity .

Despite what you Think Bill doesn`t have all the answers but how many times do i see the words " Wonder What Bill`s take on this is " And what do we conclude from it ? Let me spell it out if Bill says is ok then good enough for me. Whats wrong scared to make a decision for yourselves? i could put so much more in here But I`m holding off . But i will add this Bill can not walk on water nor turn it to wine he is no smarter then some others i have met on this forum> He has a vision of what he wants to see and is allowing you to do his brainstorming and create it along with him. But in the end his vision will still contain a hierarchy and thus we chase our tails once again

Gypsy woman I`m willing to bet Bill has made arrangements to have her reinstated as well as Lee . I for one would have ripped her a new a ss ages ago but held back out of respect Richard and some others . She has no business here and to use a quote from one that he used when JT was shown the door " I think She Is off her meds"


I know something but I PM ed to some one, I do not need to tell you. But if I tell you it would not be a secret I know the secret .I can tell you but may not . She is right but maybe she is not. But I know the truth and you will never learn it. I talk to someone he told me the truth
I was crying then my husband get upset to him. I can cry because I am a women. Maybe I can take your head of with blood everywhere then you can say sorry to my wife.
Or, I saw a Jack Nicholson movie he was using my words.
What is it going on in this circus?
Anyone? Some one has to talk maybe at off topic(closed to the earthling)

Ok ... now I am really confused. What in the horse's butt does that mean?
gran <---totally am not understanding.

Step away from the rabbit hole and nobody will get hurt.

But ... but ... I'm a widdle wrabbit.

[HaveBlue]

For me to post without reading the whole thread first is unusual but this is an unusual thread!

1. It is NOT a sad day for Avalon at all. It may or may not be sad for those that engaged mouth before brain but nobody else.

2. Anyone that thinks the internet (as in any forum, PMs or not) is a private place seriously needs a check up from the neck up!

3. Personally a high post count here is not something to be proud of. You are in effect telling us all you have no life outside this forum. So why would anyone listen to one who lacks such life experience.
It is like listening to children. We listen, give feedback, are not condecending but we certainly don't take them seriously.

4 Psychiatric Institutions (some) do have the internet, therefore I understand why one might have a high post count if they have nothing else to do while in there.
This forum however may not be the best place for those with 'issues' what with all the 'truth seeking' going on. Especially if you already have your work cut out deciding what is real and what is not.

[Northern Boy]

I only ask because I did and I learned alot. : )

good share it with the others then

[Chicodoodoo]

After reading all these posts, I am wondering if a "three strikes" policy should be in place before a member is actually banned permanently. The first strike might be a temporary banning of two weeks, the second a ban of two months, and the third a permanent ban.

It does seem unfair that Richard is kicked out after all of his volunteer service to Avalon. It also seems unfair that there is no moderation mechanism that can be applied to Avalon's "benevolent dictator", Bill Ryan, when he decides to ban someone. Given that other moderators (that may have an inside view of things) may also abandon ship over the extreme punishment (permanent banning) that is applied to a first infraction, a "three strikes" policy might be a useful change to the rules.

Many infractions are surely a result of misunderstandings, which are so easy given the written medium we work with here. And if there is a deliberate attempt to divide and destroy Avalon, through a false-flag or psy-ops or other means, a "three strikes" policy would give Avalon some additional resiliency.

We know the "elite rulers of the world" may have good reason to destroy Avalon. We may have just witnessed such an attempt without being aware of it. Divide and conquer is their method. A "three strikes" policy could help Avalon withstand such meddling in the future.

[sleepy]

Posted by Northern Boy (here)

I only ask because I did and I learned alot. : )

good share it with the others then

It was a PM. I wouldn't share without permission.

[Northern Boy]

ask for permission then