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Thread: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

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    Default Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    ... he just censored one of my posts and gave me a 5-pt infraction. The post had nothing vulgar or offensive in it - not my style. Indeed, it was more restrained than your attacks of Richard and Celine.

    I think you're man enough to debate the points I raised in my response to Dennis Leahy ... after all, if you're willing to dish it out with that kind of intensity, you should be willing to accept the same intensity coming back at you. No swear words were used. No falsehoods were made. Just an honest perspective expressed with honest force: action-reaction. Dennis acted; and I reacted in fair measure. Quite Newtonian, fwiw.

    The way I see it, you should talk to Paul about the dangers of the slippery slope of censorship. A moderator is also a mediator; not someone who purges because he has that ability.

    Dennis's post and my post were equal counterposts. Yet mine gets disappeared ... while Dennis's attack on me is left unrebutted. Are you going to tolerate this double standard? Here's hoping you are smart enough to realize that the last thing Avalon needs is censorship prior to transparency. Transparency is not about you alone getting to explain your position ... but allowing the other side getting the same courtesy.



    ps: I hope you do to the right thing and let both sides have equal voice, in content and in intensity. Thank you.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by Zook (here)
    ... he just censored one of my posts and gave me a 5-pt infraction. The post had nothing vulgar or offensive in it - not my style. Indeed, it was more restrained than your attacks of Richard and Celine.

    I think you're man enough to debate the points I raised in my response to Dennis Leahy ... after all, if you're willing to dish it out with that kind of intensity, you should be willing to accept the same intensity coming back at you. No swear words were used. No falsehoods were made. Just an honest perspective expressed with honest force: action-reaction. Dennis acted; and I reacted in fair measure. Quite Newtonian, fwiw.

    The way I see it, you should talk to Paul about the dangers of the slippery slope of censorship. A moderator is also a mediator; not someone who purges because he has that ability.

    Dennis's post and my post were equal counterposts. Yet mine gets disappeared ... while Dennis's attack on me is left unrebutted. Are you going to tolerate this double standard? Here's hoping you are smart enough to realize that the last thing Avalon needs is censorship prior to transparency. Transparency is not about you alone getting to explain your position ... but allowing the other side getting the same courtesy.



    ps: I hope you do to the right thing and let both sides have equal voice, in content and in intensity. Thank you.
    I happened to read your post and found it to be combative, insulting and offensive. I was in the process of commenting on it when it was deleted. I will send a copy of it to Bill and he can decide for himself what he thinks of it, but I think Paul did us all a favor.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    It's lucky I'm not a moderator here (and there's a good reason for that). If anything negative was posted not to mention personal attacks ~ and I had the POWER ~ I'd move it to a bin where the sun don't shine anymore. Avalon is all about creating something positive to counterbalance the negatives of the world. Those who create endless cycles of disrespect, one upmanship, bickering, and contention, well, I wonder what they are doing here? There would be no censorship just directions to the back 40 acres, a mule, a saddle, a water canteen with a map, giving directions written in Chinese. In case you didn't get to view the video I posted earlier, here it is again for your enjoyment and enrichment. If this sounds a little grouchy it could be because all day I've waited patiently for the Worm situation to clear and it's still going strong right here. It just jumped a thread.

    Here is a video that will brighten up your life and remove all reasons for these continuing attacks and negativity. Repeat after me, "I love you, I love you, I love you!" Take a deep breath and once again..... ; ) and now I'm sure it's past my bedtime. xoxox

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 4th March 2011 at 10:17. Reason: fixed video formatting
    Ep 6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Even so, let your light shine and keep it real...

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by NancyV (here)
    Quote Posted by Zook (here)
    ... he just censored one of my posts and gave me a 5-pt infraction. The post had nothing vulgar or offensive in it - not my style. Indeed, it was more restrained than your attacks of Richard and Celine.
    I think you're man enough to debate the points I raised in my response to Dennis Leahy ... after all, if you're willing to dish it out with that kind of intensity, you should be willing to accept the same intensity coming back at you. No swear words were used. No falsehoods were made. Just an honest perspective expressed with honest force: action-reaction. Dennis acted; and I reacted in fair measure. Quite Newtonian, fwiw.
    The way I see it, you should talk to Paul about the dangers of the slippery slope of censorship. A moderator is also a mediator; not someone who purges because he has that ability.
    Dennis's post and my post were equal counterposts. Yet mine gets disappeared ... while Dennis's attack on me is left unrebutted. Are you going to tolerate this double standard? Here's hoping you are smart enough to realize that the last thing Avalon needs is censorship prior to transparency. Transparency is not about you alone getting to explain your position ... but allowing the other side getting the same courtesy.

    ps: I hope you do to the right thing and let both sides have equal voice, in content and in intensity. Thank you.
    I happened to read your post and found it to be combative, insulting and offensive. I was in the process of commenting on it when it was deleted. I will send a copy of it to Bill and he can decide for himself what he thinks of it, but I think Paul did us all a favor.
    You found it insulting because ... help me out here, Nancy ... it was truth you could not bear to hear? I certainly used proper English ... so offensive language cannot be the reason. So what grounds do you have for finding it insulting?

    I, too, have a copy of the letter. It'll be interesting to see how Bill interprets a post that doesn't show him in a good light ... after all, he seems to tolerate stuff that doesn't show Richard and Celine in a good light.



    ps: Since you know what is offensive and what is not, Nancy ... did you not find anything in Bill's posts in this matter offensive? Or why most of his moderating staff (as it existed just two days ago) - all good people - left him? They left him because what ... I'm offensive?
    Last edited by Zook; 3rd March 2011 at 07:09.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Honestly I humbly think zook should be banned(nothing personal zook, I just think you have a bias that is detrimental to this community that will not end until you are not allowed to post, or you give up on putting this site down. I see nothing of value coming from you, and only negative energy aimed at division). Just my 2 cents. Not that I am a senior member but I'm into levels of sleep deprivation and I just feel like posting this. I'm tired of disruptive energy.

    I apologize for my bluntness, and possibly speaking out of place as a new member.

    Quote after all, he seems to tolerate stuff that doesn't show Richard and Celine in a good light.
    I've seen plenty of posts negatively charged at Bill tolerated. Answer me this, what is your agenda in posting what you have been?

    I for one would like to see the people making derogatory comments stop. This community is of value to the greater good. Anything that of which creates tension and division here is not something most of us seem to want to see.
    Last edited by Omni; 3rd March 2011 at 07:15. Reason: additional sleep deprived ramble

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by Zook (here)
    ... he just censored one of my posts and gave me a 5-pt infraction. The post had nothing vulgar or offensive in it - not my style. Indeed, it was more restrained than your attacks of Richard and Celine.

    I think you're man enough to debate the points I raised in my response to Dennis Leahy ... after all, if you're willing to dish it out with that kind of intensity, you should be willing to accept the same intensity coming back at you. No swear words were used. No falsehoods were made. Just an honest perspective expressed with honest force: action-reaction. Dennis acted; and I reacted in fair measure. Quite Newtonian, fwiw.

    The way I see it, you should talk to Paul about the dangers of the slippery slope of censorship. A moderator is also a mediator; not someone who purges because he has that ability.

    Dennis's post and my post were equal counterposts. Yet mine gets disappeared ... while Dennis's attack on me is left unrebutted. Are you going to tolerate this double standard? Here's hoping you are smart enough to realize that the last thing Avalon needs is censorship prior to transparency. Transparency is not about you alone getting to explain your position ... but allowing the other side getting the same courtesy.



    ps: I hope you do to the right thing and let both sides have equal voice, in content and in intensity. Thank you.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by Omniverse (here)
    Honestly I humbly think zook should be banned(nothing personal zook, I just think you have a bias that is detrimental to this community that will not end until you are not allowed to post, or you give up on putting this site down. I see nothing of value coming from you, and only negative energy aimed at division). Just my 2 cents. Not that I am a senior member but I'm into levels of sleep deprivation and I just feel like posting this. I'm tired of disruptive energy.

    I apologize for my bluntness, and possibly speaking out of place as a new member.

    Quote after all, he seems to tolerate stuff that doesn't show Richard and Celine in a good light.
    I've seen plenty of posts negatively charged at Bill tolerated. Answer me this, what is your agenda in posting what you have been?
    Truth. Bottom line.

    You are new, young, and impetuous. Before you start hurling decisions around, like thunderbolts from the clouds, please take time out and understand exactly who brought in the negative energy to Avalon. I find it offensive that a newbie who hasn't volunteered his time on Avalon should barge in and lecture those who have had spent the time and are trying trying to get at the origins of this disruptive energy. You won't get rid of bad energy by sweeping it under the rug, my friend.


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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by Zook (here)
    Quote Posted by Omniverse (here)
    Honestly I humbly think zook should be banned(nothing personal zook, I just think you have a bias that is detrimental to this community that will not end until you are not allowed to post, or you give up on putting this site down. I see nothing of value coming from you, and only negative energy aimed at division). Just my 2 cents. Not that I am a senior member but I'm into levels of sleep deprivation and I just feel like posting this. I'm tired of disruptive energy.

    I apologize for my bluntness, and possibly speaking out of place as a new member.

    Quote after all, he seems to tolerate stuff that doesn't show Richard and Celine in a good light.
    I've seen plenty of posts negatively charged at Bill tolerated. Answer me this, what is your agenda in posting what you have been?
    Truth. Bottom line.

    You are new, young, and impetuous. Before you start hurling decisions around, like thunderbolts from the clouds, please take time out and understand exactly who brought in the negative energy to Avalon. I find it offensive that a newbie who hasn't volunteered his time on Avalon should barge in and lecture those who have had spent the time and are trying trying to get at the origins of this disruptive energy. You won't get rid of bad energy by sweeping it under the rug, my friend.

    As seen by my post I fully realize my seniority compared to you is non-comparable. Still, I see no clarity in your posts in terms of an actual goal that is positive and helpful.

    Quote I find it offensive that a newbie who hasn't volunteered his time on Avalon should barge in and lecture those who have had spent the time and are trying trying to get at the origins of this disruptive energy.
    If Bill has made mistakes, I don't see value in trumpeting them over and over. This will do nothing but bring this community downward. Sorry I offended you, but I personally find it offensive you aim to cause more division. Your opinion in in my perspective is equal to mine on some levels as we are equals regardless of how long you have been here. But on the other side of the coin, I can respect ill feelings by you in seeing a new member state the opinion of you should be banned. I can respect that. But, what do you think bludgeoning your version of the truth will cause? You think lessons have not already been learned by parties involved???
    Last edited by Omni; 3rd March 2011 at 07:29.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Zook,

    You are now a mod at the Charles/Atticus site. You have the environment you co created. You should all be happy as lambs in clover to be there. It was what all this was planned for and led up to. Why not stay there and be happy with your own manifestation and leave those of us here with ours.

    I do not have friends that speak out of both sides of their mouths. A house divided cannot stand. You have your house now, live there in peace.

    I think everyone at the Charles/Atticus site should be banned for 90 days which would give all of us a chance to focus on co creating something different. You brought the change now let us all live with it.
    Last edited by write4change; 3rd March 2011 at 07:23.
    :behindsofa:Beware the axis of sanctimony.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Yes, Zook, Truth.

    And there was this bit about keep agreements. That you feel somebody did not kept his, does not mean your obligation is gone.

    Please do not make it a flame war. There are enough causalities already.

    I am giving this thread chance to close itself.

    (And as far as I know- new site Richard put up has no affiliation with Charles)
    Last edited by Luke; 3rd March 2011 at 07:23.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by Zook
    I hope you do to the right thing and let both sides have equal voice, in content and in intensity.
    When one of the two sides is maligning the integrity of this site and its founder, I choose not to give equal voice to both sides.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Hip, hip, hooray! Paul, please let me know if you need any help filing old threads ~ I know how to do it and can teach others ; ) xoxox
    Ep 6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Even so, let your light shine and keep it real...

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Hello Everyone: I have followed this forum since it's inception and really have enjoyed reading, reading and reading. Time doesn't permit unfortunately anything else so when I was inspired to actually join all heck breaks loose starting with a "new supreme being in town" If anyone doesn't know who that is then a few weeks ago there was only threads on "him" and about "him". Personally I liked the forum before everything was about "him".
    Now people are not even allowed to asked questions and state their opinions without others strking back. I personally like "Zooks" posts since I find them well thought out and to the point.
    Know that sometimes I don't agree with his view BUT never the less without his insight things would be just plain boring somedays! ( THis is a compliment Zook!)
    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I like this forum and dog gone it everyone chill out and let people speak freely. IF people are not allowed to speak freely and state their own opinions then why is there a forum anyway?
    For a person that doesn't post alot I'm getting tired of all the drama. Let everyone speak their minds and bring truth and enjoyment back to this fine forum.
    IF I get banned or whatever you want to call it for suggesting normalicy then so be it. Truth is what I came here for and truth is what I will find where ever I park my hat.
    Keep the great post coming Zook!
    Everyone have a great day and keep smiling....people will wonder what's up!

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by write4change (here)
    Zook,
    You are now a mod at the Charles/Atticus site. You have the environment you co created. You should all be happy as lambs in clover to be there. It was what all this was planned for and led up to. Why not stay there and be happy with your own manifestation and leave those of us here with ours.
    I do not have friends that speak out of both sides of their mouths. A house divided cannot stand. You have your house now, live there in peace.
    I think everyone at the Charles/Atticus site should be banned for 90 days which would give all of us a chance to focus on co creating something different. You brought the change now let us all live with it.

    This is news to me. I went with Richard because of Richard's integrity. I said that if he leaves Avalon, I will go with him. That is my word to Richard. I have no idea where you're getting the notion that that site is Atticus's.

    FYI, I removed myself as moderator. I was not booted off. But I'm still a member in good standing. The only way Bill can remove me if he chooses to ... is to remove a member in good standing. For I've always argued for truth ... and truth is one of the charters of Avalon, as best as I can recollect. Are you suggesting it isn't?



    ps: If you want to be helpful, you will seek to find teh source of the negative energy and remove it. Avalon is not helped by defining those who want to purify it with truth ... as agents of negative energy. Truth, in its proper essence, is a positive energy ... energy to be radiated out as light in a reading room ... not energy wasted as a ceiling light mistakenly left on in the storage room.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by Darla Ken Jensen Pearce (here)
    It's lucky I'm not a moderator here (and there's a good reason for that). If anything negative was posted not to mention personal attacks ~ and I had the POWER ~ I'd move it to a bin where the sun don't shine anymore. Avalon is all about creating something positive to counterbalance the negatives of the world. Those who create endless cycles of disrespect, one upmanship, bickering, and contention, well, I wonder what they are doing here? There would be no censorship just directions to the back 40 acres, a mule, a saddle, a water canteen with a map, giving directions written in Chinese. In case you didn't get to view the video I posted earlier, here it is again for your enjoyment and enrichment. If this sounds a little grouchy it could be because all day I've waited patiently for the Worm situation to clear and it's still going strong right here. It just jumped a thread.

    Here is a video that will brighten up your life and remove all reasons for these continuing attacks and negativity. Repeat after me, "I love you, I love you, I love you!" Take a deep breath and once again..... ; ) and now I'm sure it's past my bedtime. xoxox
    To be fair, not all posts that appear to be negative are bad.
    It depends on whether it is appropriate or not.
    I post things others feel is negative.
    When I first got here, some people felt so strongly, they left.
    My posts weren't intended to have that effect, but that is how they were taken.

    Oh, and your video should be visible now.

    Quote Posted by Zook (here)
    Truth. Bottom line.

    You are new, young, and impetuous. Before you start hurling decisions around, like thunderbolts from the clouds, please take time out and understand exactly who brought in the negative energy to Avalon. I find it offensive that a newbie who hasn't volunteered his time on Avalon should barge in and lecture those who have had spent the time and are trying trying to get at the origins of this disruptive energy. You won't get rid of bad energy by sweeping it under the rug, my friend.

    You know, ol Zooknugget, it isn't easy trying to be the messenger. We both know it.
    As I said in the other thread, sorry to see you stand down, glad you are staying.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Legends from the Midrash

    A lot of people know that the Torah is the first five books of the old testament. They usually don't know that there are 400 volumes of Talmud interpreting them. Then there are seven volumes of Midrash. In the Reform movement half of the Torah is text on a page and half of the page is the historical arguments that are most popular. I was a member of groups that study these books literally for years.

    The Midrash is my favorite. It is like the oral folklore of Judaism that has been written down. They are like fairy tales that explain forms of morality. They were used to make the laws a living thing for a long time. Now like most religions money counts more and I am no longer a practicing Jew just so my positions are clear.

    One of the stories about creation is how god formed the earth. When he first conceived the idea of the earth he thought he would conceive it with mercy. So he reached out and collected wet clay and embodied it with his mercy. It stuck to his hands. It stuck to everything but itself. By itself, it retained no form.

    So when he began again, he decided to create the earth from judgment. So reached out and collect the hardest stones created and held them in his hands. As he tried building with the stones, their sheer weight caused them to crumble and fall. They were too brittle to stand alone.

    So then he took equal parts of judgment and mercy and mixed them together and finally the earth was formed. God found discernment and his example of beginning again and learning from his own creations is part of the human condition. We like god have to come to discernment. And we like god are subject to natural law once he created it. Nothing is either or. Everything is derived from purpose. All creations have consequences.

    I have been told something directly to my ear that does not coincide with your post but I have no way of knowing what is true or not. What I do know is you see Richard as a man of integrity. Implying the Bill is not. Let us say Bill is not. Do you think you are going to remake him by what you are posting?

    When Richard was here, he could ban based on violating principles of negativity. Negativity I was told does not fit the purpose of this forum. The definition of negativity is very subjective. I asked for a definition and never got one. What I saw was the definition of who was negative and who was not had no across the board application.

    It seems very negative to me to go back to a repeatedly negative positions that you have been told is negative. Bill you implies has no integrity and Richard does. What kind of integrity are you displaying by hanging out here in the same place with same complaint? How is that not negative? What kind of good standing is that?
    :behindsofa:Beware the axis of sanctimony.

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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Quote Posted by write4change (here)
    Zook,

    You are now a mod at the Charles/Atticus site. You have the environment you co created. You should all be happy as lambs in clover to be there. It was what all this was planned for and led up to. Why not stay there and be happy with your own manifestation and leave those of us here with ours.

    I do not have friends that speak out of both sides of their mouths. A house divided cannot stand. You have your house now, live there in peace.

    I think everyone at the Charles/Atticus site should be banned for 90 days which would give all of us a chance to focus on co creating something different. You brought the change now let us all live with it.
    Hello...

    Please get your facts correct. Richards new site is his own, run from his own server. It has nothing to do with Charles. Is this clear enough for everbody?

    Regards

    Ross

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    winnasboy (3rd March 2011)

  30. Link to Post #18
    Avalon Member Shairia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    To give them any voice here is an insult to the REAL members. They have chosen, let them go....lmao. They have maligned the whole intent of this forum for a very long time. Some members from way back sensed this and just didn't have enough proof. Those that did were baited and either left or were banned.
    Layers upon Layers...when will people wake up and stop playing their game?

  31. Link to Post #19
    Poland Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Bill, I suggest you speak to Paul about the dangers of censorship ...

    Few things to clear:
    (1) Read Richards notice. We are parting ways IN PEACE. I would treat anybody trying to change that state of thing as troublemaker, no matter from which side of "the fence" he is talking
    (2) There were other splinter forums created by people who parted ways from this forum. Internet can handle all of them. There is no turf war
    (3) Richard OWNS his OWN place FOR YEARS. his forum, his domain. Charles has nothing to do with this. Anyone stating otherwise is mis-interpreting things.

    Now, I see people here are hell- bent to make wounds festering.
    I see this is not in the best interest of this forum.

    This is not "Total WAR". Anybody thinking that is stuck in old paradigm.

    I am closing this thread.

  32. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Luke For This Post:

    Artemis (3rd March 2011), Dorok (3rd March 2011), greybeard (4th March 2011), Harley (3rd March 2011), NancyV (3rd March 2011), RAKMEiSTER (3rd March 2011), Ross (3rd March 2011), winnasboy (3rd March 2011)

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