Telling It Like It Is

[write4change]

I would like to do something totally different today and see if it works. I would like this to be a new kind of thread. I would like no one else to write anything on it but me. Part of the problems we talk about is making huge threads to wade thru.

I would welcome your thanks because that shows everyone some kind of consensus coming.

If we want to talk about this the way we usually do: someone please post another thread now called Does the Old Lady Know What She Is Talking About or something to that effect. I am going to post in subject bursts all day long. My day.

Why I am Writing This:

1. We have a chance to co create right now in a way we have never done before.

2. If we don't really all look at the issues that everything represents, we are not going to rise to a higher understanding or evolution. This is the third time this has happened and it will happen again. Or it will be used as proof that no matter how smart or creative we are--we cannot function any better than TPTB.

3. Last night I was told a story so bizarre it knocked my socks off. It really made me mad in a whole different sense. What was I really mad about---that after a lifetime of experience and really difficult learning experiences that I could be fooled that bad. So I talked on the phone with the one and only woman friend here I talk on the phone with.

We both come to the following conclusion: it is bizarre, it is stupid, and it is so stupid that if true we can't support it based on stupidity and this will really take Bill down.

4. So we wait for the evidence that was told to be forth coming. Didn't happen. So we are back to lots of lying going on still. Almost impossible to tell where this all begins and ends.

5. As many of you pointed out this morning is our approaching 50,000 view thread, this is happening all over the planet. On a whole this is hopeful. And there is coming together as much as there is coming apart. So if we look at this as archetypes of consciousness with us playing roles in it for a while, it is not painful but learning. Learning takes practice. Practice is not always pleasure but done by those who realize the ultimate pleasure is worth the practice.

6. I am not going to reveal the story because I don't know the truth of the story. But I am going to reveal the elements of truth of the story and/or the fears the story really addresses. It is the issues that are seeking to surface.

7. If I was told this story, you can bet at least ten other people were told this story. So it is like an underlying time bomb either waiting for another trigger or we are already just counting down time and don't know it.

8. What I am asking you to believe by assisting me in telling this my way:

a. I have no agenda. I don't want power, I don't like power, I have explored this lots of times in my life--if anything I throw away my power or refuse to use it properly so this may be the lesson I am still learning at Avalon -- how to use it well.

b. I want Avalon to succeed. I see this as team effort. I see Bill as leader and inspiration for the team.

c. There are no short cuts do doing the things that need doing in life. Looking for shortcuts and not willing to do the work only delays the time it takes to do it.

Okay. I am taking a break. It would be a thrill to see a lot of thanks which means giving your consent to do this and do it my way after I have had something to eat.

If not--how I am. I feel called to do this and will do it anyway--it will just be messier.


Love to all , Jai

[Flash]

I feel really stupid right now, Write4change, because I do not understand your post. I see people thanking you, therefore they do understand.

What is the topic, what is the objective?

[str8thinker]

(write4change) I would like no one else to write anything on it but me.

If no one else is permitted to respond to your thread, how can you guarantee objectivity?

[skippy]

Let's be quiet and listen to write4change...

[write4change]

Okay. What we know so far. I really don't have much power of influence. No matter how many people will contact me behind the scenes, in reality people don't like people any more who approach life this way. I learned that for sure in Beverly Hills and we have now indoctrinated people to think that the way to approach life is to out wit, out last, and out play by any means available. This is reinforced by the PTB. People who deviate, depending on the amount of deviation are ostracized.

So the power for change will come by discussion and discussion is only driven by the power or the willingness for people to exercise their belief in their own power of implementation in front of the group. And doing this-- this way removes all power to influence change from my hands. I can talk but I can't implement action only the group can.

I have done a lot of thinking about group process which is what this is about. In all honesty when I felt truly in danger of being permanently banned and I now know it would have been a complete eraser, I sought the power of the group. The one thing I learned in the 70s when I was studying to be a shrink---while I often did not think my professors were cooking on all cylinders--I saw that if you hung with it--you could trust group process.

So in my mind I decided to from the Golden Giraffe Group--those people who displayed the ability to stick their necks out and risk getting it chopped off. With just a couple of exceptions, all my friends have asked to be my friends. I believe in self selection. So I went through all my friends to see who I would believe would have my back. And lo and behold several had already disappeared. So now my fears increased. But I am who I am from a lifetime of feel the fear and do it anyway.

I wrote the group and everyone wrote back but one man and one woman. That gave me the courage to move forward---I was understood to some degree which did not make me a total fool. And I also got advice that I knew these people would have no problem telling me when and where and how I am getting off the rail.

I have spent a lot of time considering could I enlarge, empower, and sustain this group of giraffes as a group, did I want to, and then should this be done. And I decided no. That it was just another form of what was happening that wasn't working. I would have to explain my thinking to all of Avalon and ask everyone when do you take the time and create the space to become a Golden Giraffe? And why or why not do you not want to become one? And that answer should always remain private.

[write4change]

Please start another thread if you have a need for dialogue or cross talking.

I think I write reasonably clearly what my intentions are and why. I write long posts to cover all the issues in a deep way. If that is not your cup of tea, then do not click on this thread.

[Harley]

Posted by write4change (here)
I would like this to be a knew kind of thread. I would like no one else to write anything on it but me.

This is NOT the purpose of Project Avalon.

1. Project Avalon is to be used for DISCUSSION in the search for truth.
   
   
2. Project Avalon is a VEHICLE FOR WITNESSES AND WHISTLE BLOWERS.

It is not a blog.

We really need to get this site back on track!

Thank You,

Harley Hawkins

[Anchor]

Summary: I know a secret. It might be true or it might not. It could take Avalon down. But I am not going to tell you it yet, except in bits and pieces. Lying is still going on. I might know but you might not. Please don't respond on this thread!

How in the name of the creator is this productive? You post on a threaded discussion board and then not ask for discussion?

I'm not trying to be mean here or attack you, but could you not at least rethink the approach to your "disclosure"

Maybe start a group here - it is easy to do. You could even call it the Golden Giraffe Group

John..


{UPDATE}

There is a discussion on the way this thread is being run here (link below)- so if you want to state your opinions about it, that may be the best place to go. For my part I will try to respect write4change's wishes, but in my experience this sort of control/expectation is very hard to maintain...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...hange-s-thread...

[Lyricus]

Posted by Harley Hawkins (here)

Posted by write4change (here)
I would like this to be a knew kind of thread. I would like no one else to write anything on it but me.

This is NOT the purpose of Project Avalon.

1. Project Avalon is to be used for DISCUSSION in the search for truth.
   
   
2. Project Avalon is a VEHICLE FOR WITNESSES AND WHISTLE BLOWERS.

It is not a blog.

We really need to get this site back on track!

Thank You,

Harley Hawkins

I concur!
This is forum, a place to discuss matters freely and share ideas. I understand the principle behind this thread but this isn't Hyde Park corner.
Best Wishes all the same x

[write4change]

The form of my talking to you today is going to be driven by both topic and in response to the thread in response to the Worm Tongue thread. The thread that is fast approaching 50 pages so much of value will be lost. My keeping this thread cleaner and with less noise we can reflect on what I see as out there roiling around in the collective unconscious and constantly being expressed here in often more subtler ways. Then I will conclude with a version of the story.

THE CHARLES FACTOR

I picked up the thread this morning about post # 747 from Hawkwind analyzing Charles. Charles is the X factor. And he is difficult to look at because some of us don't want to and are not even sure why--I am one of those. It is difficult to plow through all the noise. He has cleverly used all this to his advantage. In reading Hawkwind's post I was suddenly hit with the idea that he and others like him had the power to help the rest of us to deal with the Charles material and from that came the idea of posting this way this morning and see how it works.

This is how I understand co creation and synergy to work. For those of you who want to co created on this thread--I would like someone to post Hawkwind's post number 747 here and now and I will take 10 minutes after I quit this section to do it. I have a lot of material to cover. But you all have all the time in the world to read it--if we do it this way.

What Hawkwind and people like him can do is divide up all the pages of the Charles material among you and copy down to one single thread ultimately in chronological order every single thing Charles has said in one single thread that can be judged for all time by only his words as the Charles material. You will then see the patterns of his cadence and progression that are not visible any other way.

I am totally technologically impaired and I can't begin to do those kind of things but from observing it seems to me that if it is divided up it is not to difficult to do. I think where there is a will there is a way. I see all these kind of things as choices we make to see or not see; to act or not act.
If no one post's the Hawkwind contribution in ten minutes. I will move on.

[greybeard]

Posted by John (here)
Summary: I know a secret. It might be true or it might not. It could take Avalon down. But I am not going to tell you it yet, except in bits and pieces. Lying is still going on. I might know but you might not. Please don't respond on this thread!

How in the name of the creator is this productive? You post on a threaded discussion board and then not ask for discussion? Just some place to post things that sow fear and doubt?

I'm not trying to be mean here or attack you, but could you not at least rethink the approach to your "disclosure"

Maybe start a group here - it is easy to do. You could even call it the Golden Giraffe Group

John..

Hi John I suspect he is sending up what so many have been intent on being a part of for the last 8 weeks.
In other words all you have so rightly said in your post and all that Harley said too
This was never the place for it.
It never happened as it was supposed to, no whistles have been blown so far

I might be loosing it but the post is a take off, a larger than life version, of what has happened with Charles.

Tell me im wrong.
I have phoned for the medics to take me away.
C

[Ahkenaten]

We should phone for our in-house medics to "take it away."

[modwiz]

Hawkwind's Post # 747

Bill- if I could open up my brain and let you crawl inside I would, because that's the only way you will ever really know how much respect and admiration I have for you. We'd probably both have a fairly good cry afterwards. I'm clearly not alone on this forum in holding you in that high regard. I don't doubt that the moderators who have recently decided to step down also have very great respect for who you are and what you've done. The problem, my friend, is that of late the situation sometimes seems more akin to Theoden under the spell of Grima Wormtongue and Sauruman than that of Arthur at the roundtable.

The question of whether Charles has come here to help us build something new or to tear apart our efforts to do so has been and continues to be the crux of the matter. After two months of investigating that question to the best of my ability, I still don't know. The question has been argued back and forth for so long that it almost seems pointless to argue it further, and yet it remains the heart of the matter.

As with any scientific investigation, one cannot prove the veracity of any given hypothesis. One can only falsify one hypothesis and show evidence which is better explained by another. Also, when direct evidence is unavailable, it becomes necessary to examine effects which are observable and infer cause. That can, of course, be viewed as being "nit picky". It could also be viewed as a sincere effort to get to the bottom of a very deep and potentially dangerous rabbit hole.

After putting in about eight hours a day since the day I joined going through the Charles material, I'm still not a tenth of the way through it. So, some of my observations may indeed be contradicted by other evidence. Given the current turmoil, however, I feel sharing what I've come up with so far is warranted.

1-As previously stated in this post

Posted by Hawkwind (here)
If the intent of Charles' suggestion to raise some money to help one of our members was actually to initiate some sort of broader movement which Aubrey had confirmed would have far reaching consequences, then the gravity of the issue should have prompted him to discuss it directly with Bill rather than go through intermediaries. That isn't what happened, so I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the real purpose of this incident is as Charles has described it. It feels much more like a set up, the true purpose of which remains unclear. It could be, as Inelia has suggested, an attempt to shift the focus of Avalon into the sphere of finance, which would make it far easier for the elites to control. It could be, as several people have suggested, an attempt to create division among our community. The fact that it has led to several people calling for a re-structuring of Avalon's decision making process, however, leads me to believe that this was its intent from the start.

2-Charles first claimed he asked people to tell him their eye color because it would give him insight into their character. Later he claimed that the purpose was to make us self aware of our composure. At the very least this shows that some degree of dishonesty and manipulation is taking place.

3-Charls first claimed that the plan was his master's and he didn't have the details of it. He later claimed that the plan was his and had his master's approval. To the best of my knowledge, no explanation of this discrepancy has ever been given.

4-Charles first post on the Atticus account(prior to him revealing his identity) was this:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...7148#post97148

The lyrics to this song are available here:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.n...256BC1002793A3

Not to read too much into someone's taste in music, but does this strike you as something someone who has come to help would post or someone who is gloating over the perceived helplessness of an intended victim, particularly when held in relation to this excerpt from a subsequent post:

Posted by Atticus (here)
Well it's proved one thing so far your predictable prey.

5- If Charles is being straight with us, then there would be powerful people with a vested interest in disrupting his efforts here. If he isn't being straight with us, then the most likely explanation for his presence would be to be disruptive himself. Either way, trained agent provocateurs would likely be planted in the forum. This most definitely appears to be the case, in that several people who joined the forum after Charles' arrival have seemed intentionally disruptive. If Charles is who he says he is, it seems to me he would have the wherewithal to identify and put an end to these efforts, should he so desire. For whatever reason, that hasn't happened.

6-If Charles is a benevolent force in this equation, then given his background as an expert problem solver, we might expect to see some marked improvement in the functioning of the forum. If he is here to bring Avalon down, on the other hand, we might expect increased disruption and discord. Should the latter be true and in light of what Inelia has called his "off the charts" psychic abilities, we might also expect to see some seemingly erratic and completely out of character behavior from some of our core people.

Which theory is better supported by the observable evidence?

In response to- " if anyone does not like me, my style, my values, my principles, my stand on anything and everything, or the way I try my best to lead this team by setting an example everywhere I go, then damn you, and leave now."

My allegiance is to the ideals and principles upon which Avalon is based, the same ideals and principles which you have fought so long and hard to uphold and protect. It seems to many that we have gotten somewhat off course in pursuit of that quest of late. I don't see it as wise to institute a democratic restructuring of decision making at this time. Neither do I see it as wise to close all discussion of the issue with a "my way or the highway" type ultimatum. From my perspective, we've got some problems that need to be dealt with and some grievances that need to be aired. I have been and will continue to attempt to facilitate that process to the best of my ability. If you or members here don't see that as constructive, let me know and I'll either redirect my efforts or take them elsewhere.

I'm very sorry that recent events have been so hard on you, Bill and humble apologies if anything I've done or failed to do added to your burden. I guess we're all doing the best we can with the cards we've got. I sincerely believe we'll get through this and come out of it stronger than we were. I will in any case continue to work toward that end.

Namaste

Rick

Addendum- I don't feel retracting this post would at this point be appropriate. However, I likely wouldn't have posted it had I first read Burke's post https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...605#post163605 and I will endeavor to make any future posts more in line with the wisdom he expressed. Again, I can't thank you enough for your words. They well and truly floored me.

[Flash]

Posted by write4change (here)
Please start another thread if you have a need for dialogue or cross talking.

I think I write reasonably clearly what my intentions are and why. I write long posts to cover all the issues in a deep way. If that is not your cup of tea, then do not click on this thread.

No you don't, at least not to me. Is it a quesiton of cross languages problems or cryptic analogies? but I still do no follow.
In communication, the comprehension of the recipient always rest on the communicator's shoulders (if everyone tought and behaved in those lines, communication problems would be very rare - rarissime).
I do not understand yet,
I have seen some other of your posts where I did understand, so it may not be only my problem this time around.

Anyhow, help me to understand.

what is the topic, what are the objectives? answers to this to start with may help me (a new experiment? about Charles threads? I do not understand!!) Hopefully I will catch it in your other postings, when this happens, if it does, I will be in the thanks section. Until then, I will ask because it truly frustrates me.

[write4change]

[B]COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS[/

The synchronicity of the universe is with you Flash. But with the language problems you will just have to hang with the flow. The next topic of communication skills is brought up on Post 748 by the beautiful Belle. She writes about how difficult it was to communicate with her husband and how she had to reframe and reframe over and over to get herself understood and then things were worked out. Some one could post her post of 748 after this, if they think it is necessary.

These are facts we need to put in the front of our minds. If you look at brain cartology on an MRI which lights up differently in response to different kinds of stimulus; when women listen their brain lights up in 8 different places, when a man listens his brain lights up in just four places.
I think that makes sense from women's enhanced sense of vulnerability--she and her children were not only vulnerable to the environment but the moods of her mate. Men only had to deal with prey and their environment.

This site is made up of, we think, from a poll of about 60 to 40 ratio of men to women. Until this change, our mods/admins were 14 to 3 men to women. Almost all of those men are always discussing/justifying the "normal male response." We women just prick our ears up more.

It is not by accident that a site which talks about the coming of the Divine Feminine and protecting the Earth as our Mother is manifesting major problems of communication between men and women. I am for hanging this out more in our awareness.

[Flash]

Posted by write4change (here)
[B]COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS[/

The synchronicity of the universe is with you Flash. The next topic of communication skills is brought up on Post 748 by the beautiful Belle. She write about how difficult it was to communicate with her husband and how she had to reframe and reframe over and over to get herself understood and then things were worked out. Some one could post her post of 748 after this, if they think it is necessary.

These are facts we need to put in the front of our minds. If you look at brain cartology on an MRI which lights up differently in response to
different kinds of stimulus, when women listen their brain lights up in 8 different places, when a man listens his brain lights up in just four places.I think that makes sense from women's enhanced sense of vulnerability--she and her children were not only vulnerable to the environment but the moods of her mate. Men only had to deal with prey and their environment.

This site is made up of we think from a poll of about 60 to 40 ratio of men to women. Until this change our mods/admins were 14 to 3 men to women. Almost all of those men are always discussing/justifying the "normal male response." We women just prick our ears up more.

It is not by accident that a site which talks about the coming of the Divine Feminine and protecting the Earth as our Mother is manifesting major problems of communication between men and women. I am for hanging this out more in our awareness.

Believe it or not I went to look at your profile to see if you were male of female (if you would have been a male, I would have tought: "now I understand! lol ").

I do agree and understand this response of yours, I often felt the differences in this forum about the genders as well. By asking for topic and objectives I was obvioulsy working on my male environment trainiing (namely work) 4 wheels vehicule. Being a women, I will now shift to 8 wheels and let you go with the experiment,

I will try to follow, relying on the 4 extra wheels I have.

Guys, you may find it bumpy! But fun!

[Anchor]

As requested post #748

Posted by Belle (here)
Well, to say that this has been an interesting few days would be quite an understatement! Painful, yes. Necessary, absolutely.

Many here have spoken about "divide and conquer" or "divide and rule". It appears to me more of a case of spiritual math: "divide and multiply".

A little story here...My ex-husband and I had some communication problems. When I would say something, he'd look at me like I had two heads and both of them were speaking gibberish. I learned to rephrase, over and over again, sometimes over a period of days. At some point, he would finally get it and would say, "why didn't you just say that to begin with?" Well, I had. It just wasn't said in a manner he could understand. We all communicate differently.

To me what appears to be happening is people are re-grouping...moving around to find not only like-minded people, but those who communicate in the same way. Through all of what has happened here, each person has stated a desire to protect Avalon and the "magic" that happens here. The disagreement seems to be about how best to accomplish that, and hence the "battle" for control.

There are many paths to the same goal. Those who have left are blazing their own trail, their own path to the same goal and will attract others...and so more people awaken and grow and learn, drawn by what resonates with them.

Just my thoughts.....

[aikya]

?????????????????????????????????

[write4change]

ATTEMPTED COUP

Mark2112 on post #763 wrote the most succinct analogy about our manifestations and attempted coups. This is being displayed around the world. TPTB are openly snatching rights. In the US the governor of Wisconsin is trying to deprive public workers the right of collective bargaining and he tried to get the people to support him by making them jealous over their own already private lost rights. So far the people have stood together there.

But the tensions between those who would control and those tied of being controlled are surfacing everywhere. When you look at personality profiles, there is an element of being DNA as a society for balance. When that gets out of wack we have major sociological problems and we have heavy PTB propaganda to suppress who we are. Bill is an idealist almost from head to toe. An idealist in many ways finds it hard to believe that total self promotors, which is a negative expression of artisans, exist. For a rational like I am, I appreciate some of the power of promotors but I think they are controlled by their own rational self interest but sometimes the need for control that comes with that is so heavy that they will destroy themselves as well as you in the process.

Before I got kicked in the face and I had money and property, the first take down which in truth I was never able to really recover from, was from a stunningly beautiful 35 year old woman who was totally a self promotor. How did this happen? First, I wanted to believe. I was still grieving my daughter's death but I think I have a handle on it. You never totally have a handle on your vulnerabilities that is why the healthy have true friends, and are true friends, by reflecting each other strengths and weaknesses back to them. Great friends only call to your strengths. Really bad friends encourage your weaknesses and make you vulnerable to their control.

In my eyes, this young woman looked like I believed my daughter would look if she had lived. She had great skills with horses and lots of enthusiasm with her self promotion. I could see her weaknesses, she had no education really to speak of and no history of leadership. But I think I can mentor her all through this. I think we are on the same page of creating a private equestrian academy for girls as a way of empowering them. She does lead me to believe she is receptive to this and I think and I am sure I am imply that she would inevitably be my heir which at this time would be quite a lot. At this time I am furnishing her with a three bedroom two bath home and all utilities paid and 250 a week cash 1997. I have three vehicles she has access to a cadillac, a bronco, and a dual cab big heavy ford pickup. She wants a red porcshe.

To get the porsche, she presents me with an idea of a four way partnership of holding a major auction for warmbloods next door to the Indio horse show--a major national horse show. The business plan is feasible and she actually has the powers when unleashed with support to get sponsors. One of them was the Christopher Reeve foundation. To make a long story short by using fax machines with contracts, she was able to maneuver it so that everybody thought they were signing the complete contract but everybody was signing first and then furnished with the completed contract. But the reality was she was collecting the seed money and the only completed contract was with her. So if she had succeeded at this, the only one who would have made actual money was her.

The over stepping triggering event: she had hooked up on the internet with the sixth ranked German rider who would never qualify for the Olympics in his country to come and see if he would work out of my ranch and consider changing citizenship. He was as blond blue eyed good looking as she was. They got quite an online thing going. He flies out for the Christmas Holidays. From what she tells me, I think this is all so cool. When she goes to pick him up at the airport, he has brought his partner and he is gay. She brings him to the ranch and then splits.

Turns out she held herself out to be the owner of the ranch and that she had worked out a deal to put my ranch up for collateral for a ranch in Mallibu for the two of them to lease. He only had clients of ten thousand a month and where I was you were never going to get that. Well, the moment she picked him up; he knew she had lied to him and that she didn't own anything. His frame of reference was quite a bit above mine so I asked him how he instantly knew and he ran off a list of dead giveaways in his point of view that once he pointed them out I could clearly see. So since I was hosting him in LA and willing to drive them around the sights, etc. he spent hours telling me tales of the PTB as he saw them. And confessing that once he came out as gay, his father was disinheriting him.

I am telling this story for two reasons: Mark2112 take on a coup is exactly right. Bill told Richard in August his plans for increased membership etc. Bill expressed feeling his need for mods around the world etc. Richard told him he had it completely handled and didn't need help and Bill could not conceive of Richard going anywhere near as far as he did until he locked him out of the board. When you have relationships in which you want to believe in the basic goodness of people, not just your friends, you are very vulnerable not to see dark elements until the lights are turned off.

When this guy is telling me this I know I have a problem, but I think it is fixable. They are going to be here five days and I will talk with her and get this straighten out. I already know she is willing to be a crook but I still do not think she is going to act like a crook. This woman has access to all my local funds. I am just lucky at this time my major funds were in another state but she wipes me out of a 100,000 cash and disappears and leaves me to handle all the auction stuff. Well no body could sue me because I had performed, they just didn't get the money and I had not defrauded anyone but been defrauded. But taking down the Christopher Reed Foundation was not ever going to be really forgiven.

I tell this story so that when I read about Modwiz saying he has been two hours skcping with Charles and he is the real deal. I have strong doubts about the power of discernment that Mod would have to have to determine that. I had been with rich people for 25 years and was no where near into the symbols this guy from Germany had. You have to know what your strengths and weaknesses are and the best con people are the most delightful to spend time just hanging out with.

Bill has been truly open in the way most idealists always are. He has been upfront. I would like the entire board to look at the analysis of him I already did and still stand by. Please someone put up 9eagle9 repost from me on my utopian thread which I think is #134. This is important enough to me that I will wait for it.

[giovonni]

Jai, are you sure thats the correct post # number 135 ?

pssst...i'm the one lying down.