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Thread: Census 2011 - UK

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    UK Avalon Member jasontorque's Avatar
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    Angry Census 2011 - UK

    Today, I received the above through my letterbox. Failure to respond suggests a fine of up to £1000. I find the whole thing an intrusion, especially as I have read the data is being collected by US Defense Contractor Lockheed-Martin to process.

    Whilst I suspect not, does anyone have any advice in terms of mechanisms to avoid this legally.

    This is just the sort of thing which raises my dander!

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    UK Avalon Member Jayke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    I know what you mean Jason, the lawful rebellion website are advising people to just attach a no contract - return to sender on the envelope and pop it back in the post, although i'm not sure how the government will respond to this yet. One option i'm tempted to do is just throw it away and if anyone comes knocking just say it never showed up, or fill it in with made up information if you want to avoid any hassle...I'm still weighing up my options and i'll decide what to do when it arrives.
    Apparantly last time it was done over 1 million people never returned it and only 36 or something received a fine for failing to do so.

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    England Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    I have no advice for you Jasontorque, except that we're all in the same boat in the UK and the entire population will have to fill in the form or risk the fine.

    It is interesting to note that my mother, who is interested in genealogy - studied the previous census that was available online a few years ago, which gave information about people being born at the turn of last century. Not to put too fine a line on it, it seems that quite a lot of our ancestors lied, so it was difficult to find out anything. We think, although we don't know for sure because they've all gone now, it is because more people were ashamed of more things in those days. ie. unmarried mothers, for instance, were often sent away to the country to give birth, or put in homes indefinitely. But also my great grandfather, who we all thought to be a carpenter, had listed his occupation as plumber .....

    But you're right, these forms are intrusive and so are the others like the one from the Council asking who's living in the house, ostensibly for voting purposes. That also carries a fine for non-compliance.

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    Avalon Member aikya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    I believe this is a contract, and can be declined as such. A contract can't be imposed. I'm going to look into it.

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    Avalon Member Fina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Jason- I read someone making the comment that they were planning to either spend the night in a tent, or in their car, so technically there would be nobody staying overnight in the house, so no requirement to fill in the form...

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    Palestinian Territory Unsubscribed
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Taken from the Census 2011 FAQ:

    27. What will happen to my information?

    "Your answers will be turned into statistics about the community and groups within it. Personal census information is kept confidential for 100 years and is not shared with government departments."

    The reality:

    27. What will happen to my information?

    "Your answers will be filed onto mobile data storage devices and haphazardly scattered across public transport and the community. Personal census information is sold non-confidentially to the highest bidder over the next 100 years but isn't shared with other government departments as it will almost definately have been lost"

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    UK Avalon Member jasontorque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Thank you all for your comments. In searching the forum I noticed that there were a couple of threads appearing about this previously, which a Moderator might wish to combine as I feel it is very relevant information to all, especially if you reside in the UK.

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ghlight=census

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ghlight=census

    My apologies for any duplication.

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    Scotland Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Its not the actual census that bothers me as I have nothing to hide although it will be hard to specify what kind of belief system I belong to. The thing that gets me interested is that so much money is being put into this, for example up here in Scotland, councils are a paying very well to deliver these form. Each of these distributors has to go through an interview, they are then given their own mobile/cell which they carry around on delivery and before they begin delivery they have to phone their team leader. Also the extremely high fine for not filling in the form is basically a threat telling us that there are no ifs and buts, we all have to fill this in. I have worked as a postman before and find it very strange that the government is going to such lengths and spending such an amount of money to make sure that the census gets delivered, because the Royal Mail does handled council forms and important documents daily. And even stranger I here that America is going through a similar census.

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    UK Avalon Member jasontorque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    It will be very interesting to see how vigorous these private distributors / enforcement officers will be. I once had a debate with one of these gentlemen at my front door, pursuing me rather insistently regarding the usual Council Tax forms. I explained that I had already sent in the form, which he said that they had not received, that I would not be completing it again, reminded him that he was on private property and it was rather inappropriate for strangers to arrive unannounced and that he could continue the conversation with my dogs if he was not satisfied with the answers which I had already provided.
    Last edited by jasontorque; 7th March 2011 at 23:06.

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    Avalon Member the trojan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    I saw this link on another forum.The link at the bottom will take you to a page with various human rights cases of which the wording below belongs.
    This appears just after halfway down the page.


    Regina -v- Dyment (1988) 45 CCC (3d) 244
    1988
    CCC
    La Forest J
    Human Rights
    Casemap
    1 Citers
    The court referred to "informational privacy" - "This notion of privacy derives from the assumption that all information about a person is in a fundamental way his own, for him to communicate or retain for himself as he sees fit."

    http://www.swarb.co.uk/lisc/HumRi19851989.php

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    UK Avalon Member jasontorque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Thank you Trojan. I wonder if the validity or basis for this legal argument has been tested in the UK in recent years. It would be very empowering to hear from any lawyers in our midst. I really do think it important to get your facts in place if you are going to make a stand.

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    England Avalon Member DevilPigeon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Mine came today too, but I haven't opened it....

    There's only me living here, I have no idea who 'THE OCCUPIER' is! Must be the previous tennant...
    "Stop getting Bond wrong!" (Alan Partridge)

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    Avalon Member ScubaMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Unfortunately there is not a way of getting out of it legally. It all comes down to how rigorous they are enforcing it. I've been thinking about it and I'm going to fill it in due to the amount of hassle it can cause otherwise. My thinking?

    1) Using an article 8 of the Convention on Human Rights defence would be a very long, complicated and costly battle with poor prospects of success.
    2) If I loose I get a Magistrates' Court Fine.
    3)If I don't pay the fine I get a visit from a bailiff who slaps hundreds in fees on & can force entry to my home to take my stuff
    4)If I do get past the bailiff problem and still don't pay... Prison.

    It's called them having you by the short and curlys

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    UK Avalon Member jasontorque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Thank you ScubaMonkey. It really does put a great deal of the material which Jordan Maxwell cites into perspective. We are not free by any stretch of the imagination and unless significant numbers of people take a stand and refuse to comply, more of our liberties will be dissolved.

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    England Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    i plan to fill mine in in latin. maybe add a few mandarin pictograms in for light relief. Failing that i shall ask for an urdu interpretor. i believe in compliance at all times!

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    Avalon Member Adrift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    There's a great link - found via the David Icke forum - to a letter at the TPUC website that might be of interest jasontorque:

    http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=29456

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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Hello Friends !

    Here in Portugal, the Census is also in motion. It happens every ten years. We also have a fine betwenn 250 e 3.740 euros .

    http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/home....S_V2&id=471843

    Namasté

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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Quote Posted by ScubaMonkey (here)
    Unfortunately there is not a way of getting out of it legally. It all comes down to how rigorous they are enforcing it. I've been thinking about it and I'm going to fill it in due to the amount of hassle it can cause otherwise. My thinking?

    1) Using an article 8 of the Convention on Human Rights defence would be a very long, complicated and costly battle with poor prospects of success.
    2) If I loose I get a Magistrates' Court Fine.
    3)If I don't pay the fine I get a visit from a bailiff who slaps hundreds in fees on & can force entry to my home to take my stuff
    4)If I do get past the bailiff problem and still don't pay... Prison.

    It's called them having you by the short and curlys
    And you know this how?
    You have tried?
    Please, if you don't know, say so, don't make statements as if you do know.
    I don't do census, pay tax, vote or any of the other things that are ''compulsory'' as I am not a legal entity.
    If they can make my artificial legal entity complete the forms, all the more power to them.

    Quote Posted by Adrift (here)
    There's a great link - found via the David Icke forum - to a letter at the TPUC website that might be of interest jasontorque:

    http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=29456
    From what I can see, this is an excellent conditional exceptance.
    I would suggest that you know what you are doing before you send it in.
    This is only the beginning of the process.

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    England Avalon Member Setras's Avatar
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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Quote Posted by DevilPigeon (here)
    Mine came today too, but I haven't opened it....

    There's only me living here, I have no idea who 'THE OCCUPIER' is! Must be the previous tennant...

    Yeah I am not the occupier I am the "OWNER" or "RECIPIENT" perhaps we should post all the forms that say "OCCUPIER" to the MOD for their role in the Afghan debarkle....
    There is no theory of evolution...
    There is just a list of creatures that Chuck Norris allows to live

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    Default Re: Census 2011 - UK

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    And you know this how?
    You have tried?
    Please, if you don't know, say so, don't make statements as if you do know.
    Have I tried what?

    I'm confused as to what part you don't get... It really is about how rigorous they'll enforce it, i.e. will they really take me to Court.
    An Article 8 defence would be long, complicated and costly and if that's all I'm relying on the prospects are not good.
    If I attempted to defend and lost my case I would get a Magistrates' Court Fine. We know this, this is the only reason we're thinking about completing it.
    If I don't pay the fine the Court can enforce the fine against me using a number of methods such as an attachment of my earnings but most often Bailiffs.
    Bailiffs collecting magistrates' court fines have the powers to force entry into your home. They'll often not do so unless they know you're in and deliberately avoiding them.
    If I do manage to avoid the bailiff the matter goes back to court for them to take further action.
    They'd summons me to appear at Court to answer as to why the fine has not been paid.
    If I do not show a warrant of arrest will be issued to bring me to Court where I can be detained in custody for a day while they wait to see me.
    If the magistrate deems that I have not paid the fine due to 'wilful refusal or culpable neglect' I can be sentenced to prison... and boy I'm to pretty for prison!

    In all likelihood the matter would be stopped at the bailiff stage once they got hold of my car, tv, sofa, coffee machine, microwave, dishwasher, laptop and other electricals... yup, reckon that little lot would cover it once sold at auction!

    If there's anything you want me to go over in more detail Sidious, just let me know. I'll prob not respond until tomorrow though. Need to start trying to get sleepy or I'll be knackered in the morning.
    Last edited by ScubaMonkey; 7th March 2011 at 23:58.

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