View Poll Results: Can you support the United People Declaration?

Voters
118. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES, I support the Declaration

    111 94.07%
  • NO, I do not support the Declaration

    7 5.93%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 15 of 16 FirstFirst 1 5 15 16 LastLast
Results 281 to 300 of 301

Thread: United People Declaration poll

  1. Link to Post #281
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Posts
    2,591
    Thanks
    8,262
    Thanked 8,008 times in 2,305 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    G'day Chicodoodoo,

    I find it interesting that you have opted for this change of tactics now.

    Quote If you are talking about the contents of the Declaration, others may have agreed because it makes a lot of sense.
    Indeed it is their right to disagree, as it is mine.
    I was pointing out that your question was loaded.

    Quote I suspect those voices in your head would have caused you some trouble no matter how well the Declaration was worded.
    Yes very funny. I regret my little joke about my internal dialogue as you have opted to manipulate it into your argument.

    Quote I really didn't imagine it would cause any confusion. It seemed like a simple Yes/No choice, meaning you either support the Declaration or you don't. I'll try to do better next time.
    Just because you say you 'didn't imagine it would cause any confusion' doesn't negate the fact that the question was loaded.
    Again I ask Should I have chosen red?

    As for your statement around peer pressure...
    Quote I seriously doubt it, as it is a private poll and no one need know how you voted.
    From the outset there were queries as to 'Who the hell is that one person who voted 'No'?'.
    That is pretty well the definition of peer pressure.
    As the Asch Conformity Experiments (and to some extent the Milgram Obedience Experiment) illustrate peer pressure has a definite effect on the reaction/responses of individuals.
    The fact you didn't see a problem is in itself a problem...

    Quote Thanks. It's always useful to know why people refuse to vote.
    I didn't 'refuse' to vote.
    Wasn't aware the poll existed until I posted here and then looked at it and decided to not vote and stated my reason why.
    By saying I refused to vote you are inferring more meaning to my actions.
    I was not and do not intend to be antagonistic towards you.
    I pointed out a possible fault in your polling question.
    That is all.
    As for my not responding to the poll.
    I made a personal choice.
    Your argumentative posturing has not altered my position.

    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon
    Last edited by panopticon; 1st April 2011 at 11:15. Reason: Cleaned up post and corrected spelling error
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to panopticon For This Post:

    dukes4monny (1st April 2011)

  3. Link to Post #282
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    20th March 2011
    Age
    60
    Posts
    200
    Thanks
    441
    Thanked 493 times in 166 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Sorry, but I still haven't got used to the multi-quote method on this forum. This is a reply to Chicodoodoo's post #277 and Buck'y post #278.

    For me this Declaration, although well phrased and well intentioned is always going to be flawed.........I will try and explain what I mean by this. **WARNING** those of a philosophical or ideological disposition please look away now........
    I apologise for using a computer system as a metaphor, but I hope it helps. I am going right back to basics here, so please stick with me.........

    When we are born, our minds are all exactly the same, we are running a basic operating system called 'Human Being 1.0'.
    We then begin to upload a new operating system, these are installed from our local environment, mostly our close family. This upload takes a long time, but when successful, we are then referred to as an 'individual' or 'adult'.

    If we are born into an indigenous tribe (Australian Aborigines - American Indians etc.), the new operating system that is uploaded is fully compatible with the 'Human Being 1.0' system that is already running and can be seen as an upgrade. In this environment, the 'individual' understands the importance of the environment and the other creatures that inhabit the world around them and knows instinctively how to live in harmony with it, they are now running 'Human Being 2.0'.

    If we are born into the western world, the new operating system, instead of being an update is a totally new operating system that has been corrupted by a virus called 'Philosophy 1.0'. This virus has been there so long that it has been accepted as the new operating system without question and is automatically uploaded to all new human beings thereafter.
    This program called 'Philosophy 1.0' doesn't tell us to work with the environment, it creates reasoned arguments that tell us to use the environment for *our own gains, in fact it works against the environment, but more importantly, 'Philosophy 1.0' has overwritten 'Human Being 1.0' completely which no longer exists.
    *When I say 'our' you could replace this with 'their' (tptb).

    So what's my point? Like it or not, we in the western world are running a faulty operating system which has no concept of how to live WITH our environment, our program only tells us how to live off the environment.........the 'Human Being 1.0' no longer exists, it's been erased.
    Our 'Philosophy 1.0' program keeps taking over, and any philosophical argument puts down an anchor that says this is my understanding and nothing else matters.
    THIS IS THE PROGRAM THAT WE ARE ALL RUNNING....and yes I do include myself in the WE. If you go back and read the Declaration and the rest of this thread, we begin to realise that it to is running on 'Philosophy 1.0', we are reflecting what we see around us......it's the only reference that we have.

    What I see in these remaining indigenous tribes are individuals who are still running a version of 'Human Being 2.0', and I firmly believe that if we are to solve the problems that have existed in the Western culture for a very long time, we must make use of what's left of this 'Human Being 2.0' program and start uploading it to our new Human Beings so that they can start to sort out the centuries of problems caused by 'Philosophy 1.0'.

    So, if there is anyone still reading this (sorry I didn't intend it to go on so long), are we ready to have a non philosophical / ideological discussion about how we can achieve this goal?
    I'm sure that someone will point out that I have used this philosophical point or that one, I myself am trying to learn to avoid these 'traps', but I'm sure that I've fallen into some of them.........

    So, if it is to be a new thread, how about a title of 'Are we ready to upload Human Being 2.0?'

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dukes4monny For This Post:

    panopticon (1st April 2011), skippy (1st April 2011)

  5. Link to Post #283
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    9th February 2011
    Posts
    618
    Thanks
    3,490
    Thanked 3,380 times in 561 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by dukes4monny (here)
    So, if it is to be a new thread, how about a title of 'Are we ready to upload Human Being 2.0?'
    Please dukes4monny, guide us into the world, called Human Being 2.0. I'll be present if you kick-off a new thread discussion.

    Skip.

  6. Link to Post #284
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Posts
    2,591
    Thanks
    8,262
    Thanked 8,008 times in 2,305 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    G'day dukes4monny,

    You have made an excellent series of points.
    There are many who would agree with your points in this post though, as you point out, would probably call it different names.

    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

  7. Link to Post #285
    France Avalon Member buckminster fuller's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    rennes (britanny), france
    Age
    51
    Posts
    598
    Thanks
    2,230
    Thanked 1,878 times in 475 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by dukes4monny (here)
    For me this Declaration, although well phrased and well intentioned is always going to be flawed.........I will try and explain what I mean by this. **WARNING** those of a philosophical or ideological disposition please look away now........
    I apologise for using a computer system as a metaphor, but I hope it helps. I am going right back to basics here, so please stick with me.........

    When we are born, our minds are all exactly the same, we are running a basic operating system called 'Human Being 1.0'.
    We then begin to upload a new operating system, these are installed from our local environment, mostly our close family. This upload takes a long time, but when successful, we are then referred to as an 'individual' or 'adult'.

    If we are born into an indigenous tribe (Australian Aborigines - American Indians etc.), the new operating system that is uploaded is fully compatible with the 'Human Being 1.0' system that is already running and can be seen as an upgrade. In this environment, the 'individual' understands the importance of the environment and the other creatures that inhabit the world around them and knows instinctively how to live in harmony with it, they are now running 'Human Being 2.0'.

    If we are born into the western world, the new operating system, instead of being an update is a totally new operating system that has been corrupted by a virus called 'Philosophy 1.0'. This virus has been there so long that it has been accepted as the new operating system without question and is automatically uploaded to all new human beings thereafter.
    This program called 'Philosophy 1.0' doesn't tell us to work with the environment, it creates reasoned arguments that tell us to use the environment for *our own gains, in fact it works against the environment, but more importantly, 'Philosophy 1.0' has overwritten 'Human Being 1.0' completely which no longer exists.
    *When I say 'our' you could replace this with 'their' (tptb).

    So what's my point? Like it or not, we in the western world are running a faulty operating system which has no concept of how to live WITH our environment, our program only tells us how to live off the environment.........the 'Human Being 1.0' no longer exists, it's been erased.
    Our 'Philosophy 1.0' program keeps taking over, and any philosophical argument puts down an anchor that says this is my understanding and nothing else matters.
    THIS IS THE PROGRAM THAT WE ARE ALL RUNNING....and yes I do include myself in the WE. If you go back and read the Declaration and the rest of this thread, we begin to realise that it to is running on 'Philosophy 1.0', we are reflecting what we see around us......it's the only reference that we have.

    What I see in these remaining indigenous tribes are individuals who are still running a version of 'Human Being 2.0', and I firmly believe that if we are to solve the problems that have existed in the Western culture for a very long time, we must make use of what's left of this 'Human Being 2.0' program and start uploading it to our new Human Beings so that they can start to sort out the centuries of problems caused by 'Philosophy 1.0'.

    So, if there is anyone still reading this (sorry I didn't intend it to go on so long), are we ready to have a non philosophical / ideological discussion about how we can achieve this goal?
    I'm sure that someone will point out that I have used this philosophical point or that one, I myself am trying to learn to avoid these 'traps', but I'm sure that I've fallen into some of them.........

    So, if it is to be a new thread, how about a title of 'Are we ready to upload Human Being 2.0?'
    What I think we need to do is write down 'Philosophy 2.0'. 'Human Being' is anyway the operating system. I'm not sure we can separate discourse around big subjects like a new society paradigm and philosophy. Philosophy is a tool, just like ethics, creativity, etc..

    from wikipedia :
    "Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language.[1][2] It is distinguished from other ways of addressing such problems by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument.[3] The word "philosophy" comes from the Greek φιλοσοφία (philosophia), which literally means "love of wisdom""

    You might be confusing philosophy and ideology ..? Ideologies are traps for the mind, no doubt, yet their initial components can't always be refuted. It is the way they've been implemented that is the problem. Preconceptions, old neural networks might be the problem, not so much the idea itself.
    It's important to understand how historically, truly philanthropic ideologies didn't make it "to the street" .


    peace
    life is design

  8. Link to Post #286
    France Avalon Member buckminster fuller's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    rennes (britanny), france
    Age
    51
    Posts
    598
    Thanks
    2,230
    Thanked 1,878 times in 475 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by panopticon (here)
    One little voice inside my head (there's a few in there!) viewed it a bit differently:
    Quote Question: Can you support the 'United People Declaration'?
    Internal Dialogue: Well yes I can, it sounds nice, warm and cozy. Can I support it? Certainly could!
    'Yes, I support the Declaration'.. Just a second that's not the question! The question was 'can I' not 'do I'.
    Hmmm.
    'No, I do not support the Declaration'.. Just a second that's not the question either! I was asked can I support it! I answered yes because I could support it.
    I don't want to answer no because then I'm saying I don't support people having enough to eat, drink and all those nice warm fuzzy things that I want everybody to have! So I must vote yes! But the question wasn't 'do I' it was 'can I'. People who vote NO are bad people. It says so in the Declaration! I don't want to be a bad person. I don't want to look silly. I will vote YES because I am a good clever person.
    Peer group pressure and directed questioning may have had a part to play in this poll.
    I am sure it was not intentional on your part but pointed it out so as to be clear why this particular individual did not vote in this poll.

    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon

    Humm.. I understand your position, but isn't that a little far fetched...? Although you are right about the fact that "do" or "do not" would have brought some clarity to the question, the way you chose to analyse it could have remained an internal dialogue? It is all about the way one stands from the start. One can either feel inclined to follow good ideas that make sense to him, or feel like he's being forced into something by others when really, it is only a personal view of it.. What are you really telling us here.?

    You are only addressing the form, and being both pernickety and sceptical. I wish you can come out with more constructive arguments.

    peace
    life is design

  9. Link to Post #287
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    20th March 2011
    Age
    60
    Posts
    200
    Thanks
    441
    Thanked 493 times in 166 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Ok, so as not to divert things too far away from the original intent of this thread, I have started a new one here.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to dukes4monny For This Post:

    panopticon (1st April 2011)

  11. Link to Post #288
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Posts
    2,591
    Thanks
    8,262
    Thanked 8,008 times in 2,305 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
    Humm.. I understand your position, but isn't that a little far fetched...? Although you are right about the fact that "do" or "do not" would have brought some clarity to the question, the way you chose to analyse it could have remained an internal dialogue? It is all about the way one stands from the start. One can either feel inclined to follow good ideas that make sense to him, or feel like he's being forced into something by others when really, it is only a personal view of it.. What are you really telling us here.?

    You are only addressing the form, and being both pernickety and sceptical. I wish you can come out with more constructive arguments.

    peace
    G'day buckminster fuller,

    You have made some exceptionally good points.
    My point was that the question was loaded.
    It's like a wife asking her husband 'Do I look fat in these shorts?'
    There's a loaded question any male should run from!

    The question had design faults and I have stated what these were a number of times.
    I do not wish to get into a discussion that is unnecessarily philosophically pedantic or discipline specific.
    The question was loaded. Simple.

    The fact I didn't respond to the poll question was because the question was more like the colour red question I mentioned a few posts back.

    Quote One can either feel inclined to follow good ideas that make sense to him
    I was trying to assist someone who seemed to have an interesting idea.
    This appears to have been missed.

    Quote You are only addressing the form, and being both pernickety and sceptical. I wish you can come out with more constructive arguments.
    I was commenting on the form.
    This was indeed 'pernickty and skeptical' because I was trying to assist Chicodoodoo in future questionnaire formation.

    Quote What are you really telling us here.?
    I was really telling you that the question was loaded...
    There was no secret meaning, no hidden agenda.
    The question was structured in a way that directed the respondents towards one answer.
    In an instance where this is done there is no point in asking the question except for self affirmation.
    I did not think that was the purpose of the poll.
    Was I wrong to ask:

    Quote Posted by panopticon (here)
    Have you asked the question why people didn't vote in this poll?
    Have you looked at the way a position is created in the polls wording?
    I then proceeded to put forward an opinion in answer to these questions so as to assist Chicodoodoo in the future.
    The thread appeared dead and I do not like to use the PM or chat system.
    I saw no harm in commenting on the poll question itself in a way that was viewable by any member of the forum.
    Everything I say is viewable by anyone at any time.
    I believe in transparency and freedom of information, as I am sure many others here do as well.

    Quote the way you chose to analyse it could have remained an internal dialogue
    Point taken and I shall return to my lifetime habit of not participating in loaded questionnaires.
    All I was trying to do was help Chicodoodoo in his question formation and point out the different factors (peer group pressure for one) that can skew a data set.
    My participation in this thread seems to have been misinterpreted and I apologise for my attempt at assisting.
    I learn from my errors.

    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon
    Last edited by panopticon; 1st April 2011 at 13:29. Reason: removed: 'only allowed for' replaced with: 'directed the respondents towards'
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to panopticon For This Post:

    buckminster fuller (1st April 2011)

  13. Link to Post #289
    France Avalon Member buckminster fuller's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    rennes (britanny), france
    Age
    51
    Posts
    598
    Thanks
    2,230
    Thanked 1,878 times in 475 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by panopticon (here)
    Point taken and I shall return to my lifetime habit of not participating in loaded questionnaires.
    All I was trying to do was help Chicodoodoo in his question formation and point out the different factors (peer group pressure for one) that can skew a data set.
    My participation in this thread seems to have been misinterpreted and I apologise for my attempt at assisting.
    I learn from my errors.

    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon
    I appreciate you took the time to answer in a detailed manner. I can see that you've been trying to help here, and I do thank you for that. My point should have been: you found a flow in the declaration form, which you kindly pointed out to Chico. You then go on explaining to us that this flow is the reason why you decide not to participate. I'm confident you understand nobody is trying to fool people here and that the intent remains pretty much philanthropic and ethical. Would you have taken position if the declaration poll had been in the form you suggested? Do you think that this is the reason by which many people didn't even want to participate?

    You think it is worth your assistance, but not your vote ?
    It is helping in one way, and discrediting in the other.. Hence my question.

    Thanks for participating your way, anyway ..

    Edit : Lifetime habits are dangerous man, beware...
    life is design

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to buckminster fuller For This Post:

    panopticon (6th April 2011)

  15. Link to Post #290
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    156
    Thanked 61 times in 21 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    I say it is one thing to save us from oppressive, power and money seeking leaders, but we need to save us from ourselves as well. Human nature is full of ignorance, and arrogance.... delusion, jealousy, psychological dysfunction, immaturity, underdeveloped minds and hearts, absent of true compassion, understanding, lacking in true intelligence/wisdom, every bit as selfish and greedy as those at the top...so until the average human heart is living from a higher Spiritual Nature...there will persist the desire to dictate, hide (not be transparent), lie, cheat, steal, and be a herd of sheep who feel entitled to have it all. I feel the problem lies is each one of us...and that kind of evolution is up to each person to want and search for.

    It is very hard for three people to decide where to go for dinner. So unless you have a magic wand that will turn us all into wise and powerful sages...who love beyond their personal needs and self, maybe it is enough to learn to 'swim' in the world as it is. We cannot even be entirely responsible for one other person. And most of us have learned that another's mindset is a difficult thing to change. And why would you, we all must grow from where we are, living the peaks and valleys of life and making our changes and personal growth as it naturally occurs.

    Kind intentions, acts of generosity, granting superior qualities to one's potential is not the same as transforming each heart and mind to actualize that potential. It is difficult enough for one to walk their talk...so good luck in manifesting your ideal reality.

    Stay awake out there...quantum-ly w/love

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Tao O For This Post:

    panopticon (1st April 2011)

  17. Link to Post #291
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Posts
    2,591
    Thanks
    8,262
    Thanked 8,008 times in 2,305 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
    I appreciate you took the time to answer in a detailed manner. I can see that you've been trying to help here, and I do thank you for that. My point should have been: you found a flow in the declaration form, which you kindly pointed out to Chico. You then go on explaining to us that this flow is the reason why you decide not to participate. I'm confident you understand nobody is trying to fool people here and that the intent remains pretty much philanthropic and ethical. Would you have taken position if the declaration poll had been in the form you suggested? Do you think that this is the reason by which many people didn't even want to participate?
    You think it is worth your assistance, but not your vote?
    It is helping in one way, and discrediting in the other.. Hence my question.
    G'day buckminster fuller,

    Quote I appreciate you took the time to answer in a detailed manner. I can see that you've been trying to help here, and I do thank you for that.
    Not a problem. I was trying to clear up what I had been trying to do.

    Quote My point should have been: you found a flow in the declaration form, which you kindly pointed out to Chico. You then go on explaining to us that this flow is the reason why you decide not to participate.
    I am assuming that you mean 'flaw' and that 'flow' is a typo.
    If so then that is correct. The question was loaded and I will not participate when I am being directed to do something, even if it is an accident. The first step is the hardest. From there it is a slippery slope.
    I am not saying anyone was deliberately being unethical only that my morals would not allow me to vote in a loaded questionaire.

    Quote I'm confident you understand nobody is trying to fool people here and that the intent remains pretty much philanthropic and ethical.
    Um, yeah I guess. I don't know you from a bar of soap mate.
    You could be a 15 year old girl named Stacey living in a council flat.
    I can only go on the perceived actions exhibited by a poster.
    Are you 15, 38 or 89? I don't know any more than what you tell me.
    So I am not confident that there are not games being played here by the 'unknown others'.
    A persona may be presented as a front to 'curry favour' with a select audience.
    I go on action/reaction responses. That is all.
    So far everythings seems alright in this thread but I am always wary.
    I remember voicing concern at the 'enlightened' persona and complaining about all the lemmings...

    Quote Would you have taken position if the declaration poll had been in the form you suggested? Do you think that this is the reason by which many people didn't even want to participate?
    I don't like to participate in hypothetical autopsies of past discussions.
    They are mostly pointless "Should I have said this they would have said this" rubbish that serves no purpose other than to get people second guessing their actions.
    However...
    I know I opened myself up to this by trying to help so...
    The Declaration poll was flawed.
    Would I have responded if it had been differently asked?
    If it wasn't loaded to direct me towards a response and then if I found it before its 'use by date' and then if it interested me then probably.
    More than that is hypothetical and serves no purpose.

    Quote Do you think that this is the reason by which many people didn't even want to participate?
    Some people just 'feel' when a question is 'wrong'. I don't know if more would have responded if it had been asked differently. There are way too many variables to be able to give a response to that question.

    Quote You think it is worth your assistance, but not your vote?
    It is helping in one way, and discrediting in the other.. Hence my question.
    No you don't.
    Up until then you were respectful of my position and seemed genuine in your questioning.
    This last question is trying to place me in the position of dominated.
    'Hence my question'
    In response to your questions, I shall state once again clearly and concisely:
    The poll question was flawed. Anything else is pointless hypotheticals on hypotheticals.

    'worth your assistance, but not your vote' 'helping in one way and discrediting in the other'.
    Hahahahahahaha. Good one!
    You almost had me then. It's nearly 2:00 am and I'm tired.

    Got a big weekend cutting up gum trees for firewood.
    Had a foot and a half of rain last week and the bush access road is, well, no longer an access to anything!
    So will probably not be online again for a few days.
    I apologise now but there's not much I can do about it.
    'Til then.

    'Scratch ya on the flip side!'

    Love, peace, brown rice, soya sauce, the wickered witch is a cabbage patch kid!

    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to panopticon For This Post:

    Revere (1st April 2011)

  19. Link to Post #292
    United States Avalon Member Revere's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th January 2011
    Location
    PA USA
    Age
    64
    Posts
    256
    Thanks
    2,100
    Thanked 758 times in 198 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Guys,

    Man!!! The life has been debated out of this whole Thread. We all need to back our egos out of this whole thing. We are reinforcing the whole flawed humanity paradigm here in real time.

    Here are my ideas in a spirit of progress to and for action. Hopefully, they will be helpful. I will not be back for a point by point debate session in defense of "my" ideas. Nope sorry, my ego needs no defense so, suggest ideas not just criticism. Really, I have read a belly full of tail chasing. So, let’s move on please! O.K. here I go

    First, drop voting schemes for now. They are useless until we have something to vote on. No debate before it's time.

    Second, stop requiring a vote on a Declaration. Let people vote in the end by spending their energy towards doing an action we put forward. Votes are about as meaningful as debating votes at this time. So, I humbly suggest working the Declaration into a statement of Intention or a Mission Statement worded from an ultra positive perspective. Let's heed the wisdom of Mother Teresa, "I will never attend an anti-war rally but call me when you are having a Peace Rally" (quote was extremely paraphrased…oh and notice it was about action!). Please consider the two completely different energies, with two different tones/vibes, for the two different rallies. Tone is critical if you believe in consciousness and attraction. I do!

    Third, open a Thread for ideas on an action item we can get behind and do. I promise I will contribute one idea as well that I really like (PM me when open). Once we have one, if it is good it will attract those with good intentions that vibrate with it. Like minds will be drawn to it. The old" build it and they will come" concept. Yea, then we will have action in lieu of endless debate.

    Hey, I am not trying to criticize anyone. I am trying to generate action to move this forward. THAT IS WHAT I CRAVE! If you guys hate these ideas no problem, I will move on with my own action items. But, I want to see Avalon unite and become a catalyst for a paradigm change from the PTB nightmare. Please God give us wisdom to move forward! AMEN!

    Love and Peace,
    -R-
    "IF WE THINK WE CAN OR CAN NOT WE ARE RIGHT"

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Revere For This Post:

    buckminster fuller (1st April 2011), dukes4monny (1st April 2011), panopticon (6th April 2011)

  21. Link to Post #293
    Deactivated
    Join Date
    15th January 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    69
    Posts
    758
    Thanks
    1,207
    Thanked 3,327 times in 653 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    I’m not seeing a true desire to be helpful from Panopticon. Instead, I am seeing a desire to be deliberately contentious. Regardless of how the poll question is asked, and regardless of how the Declaration is worded, I think Panopticon would find it a loaded question in any event.

    The poll question is about as simple as you can get. Panopticon can argue that it depends on the definition of “do”, “can”, and “support”, but I see this as the Bill Clinton defense – “It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is.”

    And we all know why Bill Clinton chose this defense. It was because he didn’t have a leg to stand on.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chicodoodoo For This Post:

    modwiz (1st April 2011), skippy (1st April 2011)

  23. Link to Post #294
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    9th February 2011
    Posts
    618
    Thanks
    3,490
    Thanked 3,380 times in 561 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by Revere (here)
    Third, open a Thread for ideas on an action item we can get behind and do. I promise I will contribute one idea as well that I really like
    Revere, I invite you to kick-off a new thread with one of your ideas. Excellent initiative to bring some new life in this ping-pong match!

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to skippy For This Post:

    dukes4monny (2nd April 2011), Revere (1st April 2011)

  25. Link to Post #295
    United States Avalon Member Revere's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th January 2011
    Location
    PA USA
    Age
    64
    Posts
    256
    Thanks
    2,100
    Thanked 758 times in 198 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by skippy (here)
    Quote Posted by Revere (here)
    Third, open a Thread for ideas on an action item we can get behind and do. I promise I will contribute one idea as well that I really like
    Revere, I invite you to kick-off a new thread with one of your ideas. Excellent initiative to bring some new life in this ping-pong match!
    OK but it will have to wait till tomorrow. I have to go to a meeting...I want to do it right and not hurry. So, until tomorrow friends.

    Peace,

    -R-
    "IF WE THINK WE CAN OR CAN NOT WE ARE RIGHT"

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Revere For This Post:

    panopticon (6th April 2011)

  27. Link to Post #296
    UK Avalon Member Gardener's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Age
    75
    Posts
    1,063
    Thanks
    29,152
    Thanked 5,128 times in 997 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Bollinger ->And yet, despite all my efforts, you continue droning on about this obsessive fixation with the small group of “organised sociopaths” that you believe are busy toiling away in their relentless evil ways to see that we do not prosper. So, I wouldn’t use the word absurd against other people if I were you!
    Whilst I do not agree with everything chico says; on this particular subject I am afraid he is 100% correct. It is most definitly not a fixation, it is something every feeling, intelligent person needs to see and know at a visceral level, otherwise any of us could fall under their spell they are not just at government level, or prisons.
    Chico says they account for 2%, that is conservative, it is at least 4% and probably higher; in forensic populations it is 16% plus. Think about it, 4% of the people you are coming into contact with on a daily basis are PSYCHOPATHS, very clever ones because they have not yet been uncovered in their behaviour.

    Their inherrant skills provide them with their ability to rise to the top in any organisation, its called manipulation, lies, charm, and an abiding lack of conscience which allows them to do just what they need to do. In one of the UK prisons, in one year, 2007 one psychopath succeeded in getting five of the female members of staff pregnant...... using manipulation, lies, charm and a total lack of conscience. To disregard the psychopath/sociopath, is to not be able to understand how people can do the things they do, it goes from the top to the bottom, in all walks of life. The main part of the problem is that 'normal' (with conscience and moral core) people can not understand how anyone can behave in a conscienceless and different way. They are a different species.

    I highly recommend you read Political Ponerology; and Snakes in Suits, Hare & Babiek, also Without Conscience, Robert Hare.
    g
    "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves" C. G. Jung

  28. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Gardener For This Post:

    buckminster fuller (1st April 2011), Chicodoodoo (2nd April 2011), dukes4monny (2nd April 2011), panopticon (6th April 2011)

  29. Link to Post #297
    United States Avalon Member Nyce555's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th March 2011
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Age
    43
    Posts
    203
    Thanks
    441
    Thanked 498 times in 161 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    You've got my vote!!! I wonder why folks voted no.

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to Nyce555 For This Post:

    buckminster fuller (2nd April 2011)

  31. Link to Post #298
    United States Avalon Member Revere's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th January 2011
    Location
    PA USA
    Age
    64
    Posts
    256
    Thanks
    2,100
    Thanked 758 times in 198 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Quote Posted by Revere (here)
    Quote Posted by skippy (here)
    Quote Posted by Revere (here)
    Third, open a Thread for ideas on an action item we can get behind and do. I promise I will contribute one idea as well that I really like
    Revere, I invite you to kick-off a new thread with one of your ideas. Excellent initiative to bring some new life in this ping-pong match!
    OK but it will have to wait till tomorrow. I have to go to a meeting...I want to do it right and not hurry. So, until tomorrow friends.

    Peace,

    -R-
    O.K. here is the link to the "United People Action Ideas" Thread.

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post189487
    "IF WE THINK WE CAN OR CAN NOT WE ARE RIGHT"

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to Revere For This Post:

    panopticon (6th April 2011)

  33. Link to Post #299
    Deactivated
    Join Date
    15th January 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    69
    Posts
    758
    Thanks
    1,207
    Thanked 3,327 times in 653 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Look UP.

    United People.

    Lots of humans say it can’t be done.

    Here’s just a peek at what is possible when humanity unites and organizes.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/eric_whitacre_a_virtual_choir_2_000_voices_strong. html


    We just need to unite as a group and organize the process of how we will function together. Once we do this, we will create our own magnificent music, music beyond even this:



  34. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Chicodoodoo For This Post:

    buckminster fuller (3rd April 2011), Cottage Rose (3rd April 2011), greg (3rd April 2011)

  35. Link to Post #300
    Belgium Avalon Member greg's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st April 2011
    Location
    Near Brussels
    Age
    43
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 11 times in 4 posts

    Default Re: United People Declaration poll

    Hi,

    This is my first post on the forum. I just want to tell that i vote yes on the United People Declaration. I think that is the first step for a better world. Thank to Chicodoodoo for doing this great job.

    By the way the video above is just amazing !

    Excuse me for my poor english, it's quite a bit difficult for me to write in english again, but I do my best

  36. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to greg For This Post:

    buckminster fuller (3rd April 2011), Chicodoodoo (3rd April 2011), dukes4monny (3rd April 2011), panopticon (6th April 2011)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 15 of 16 FirstFirst 1 5 15 16 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts