Reincarnation - alternative views

[Chicodoodoo]

(Note: the real start of this thread is post #12 below.)

Posted by sepia (here)
Science never found prove for life after death - so it didn't exist.

Science never found proof for life after death, nor did it find proof for no life after death -- so science can't say too much about it.

Posted by sepia (here)
And still many people might say, it's an illusion, it's a lie, a believe-system... And you know what? I don't care. - I don't have to prove anybody anything.

Ah, there's my problem -- I do care.

I'm amazed at how quickly you were able to open my eyes, Sepia. Thank you very much, and I mean that most sincerely. I'm in your debt.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
Science never found proof for life after death, nor did it find proof for no life after death -- so science can't say too much about it.

---------> Science is really a religion.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...lly-a-religion

There's plenty of evidence for reincarnation. More than plenty. And for those people who have vivid recall of past life events (including many reading this, for sure), no evidence or 'proof' is needed. The reality is self-evident.

Meanwhile, there's as much evidence as anyone wants to examine. There are enough books on the subject, citing case histories and rigorous, intelligent investigation, to keep someone reading day and night for a year.

It all depends if someone wants to do that or not! Some people have already made their minds up. Why do people do that?

One reason is because their reality is threatened. As Sepia said - supposing you allow this to happen?

And wuff... suddenly my world was upside down.

It takes great courage to allow oneself to experience that.

[3optic]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Meanwhile, there's as much evidence as anyone wants to examine. There are enough books on the subject, citing case histories and rigorous, intelligent investigation, to keep someone reading day and night for a year.

Can you recommend a few to get me started?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by 3optic (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Meanwhile, there's as much evidence as anyone wants to examine. There are enough books on the subject, citing case histories and rigorous, intelligent investigation, to keep someone reading day and night for a year.

Can you recommend a few to get me started?

http://amazon.com/The-best-books-abo...R12CBBS4CMI6XY


1. One Soul, Many Lives: First Hand Stories of Reincarnation and the Striking Evidence of Past Lives by Roy Stemman The list author says: "One of the best places to start. This book is easy to read and features many of the most famous cases having to do with reincarnation. I recommend reading this one first if you are new to the subject, as those who have already done some reading on reincarnation will find a lot of repetition."
$11.86 Used & New from: $3.89
(7 customer reviews)

2. Exploring Reincarnation: The Classic Guide to the Evidence for Past-Life Experiences by Hans TenDam The list author says: "Plenty of information from a variety of sources makes this book a good read for those who understand a little about the topic and who want to know more."
$20.48 Used & New from: $11.94
(6 customer reviews)

3. Many Lives, Many Masters: The True Story of a Prominent Psychiatrist, His Young Patient, and the Past-Life Therapy That Changed Both Their Lives by Brian Weiss The list author says: "The first of Dr. Weiss' books that document cases of reincarnation in his psychiatric practice."
$8.69 Used & New from: $0.29
(444 customer reviews)

4. Through Time Into Healing by Brian Weiss The list author says: "The second of Dr. Weiss' books."
$10.20 Used & New from: $0.01
(30 customer reviews)

5. Only Love is Real: A Story of Soulmates Reunited by Brian Weiss The list author says: "The third of Dr. Weiss' books. This story of soulmates reunited is one of my favourites."
$24.70 Used & New from: $0.68
(91 customer reviews)

6. Messages from the Masters: Tapping into the Power of Love by Brian Weiss The list author says: "The fourth of Dr. Weiss' books."
$11.16 Used & New from: $3.00
(62 customer reviews)


7. Same Soul, Many Bodies: Discover the Healing Power of Future Lives through Progression Therapy by Brian Weiss The list author says: "The fifth of Dr. Weiss' books delves into the possibility of future lives and how they might affect the lives we are currently living."
Used & New from: $0.81
(78 customer reviews)

[Bill Ryan]

--------

8. Children's Past Lives: How Past Life Memories Affect Your Child by Carol Bowman The list author says: "Spontaneous memories of children are one of the most interesting aspects of the phenomenon."
$7.99 Used & New from: $4.03
(85 customer reviews)

9. Return From Heaven: Beloved Relatives Reincarnated Within Your Family by Carol Bowman The list author says: "This book features more stories of children's past life memories, with a focus on children who appear to have reincarnated within the same family."
$7.99 Used & New from: $3.84
(31 customer reviews)

10. Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives by Michael Newton The list author says: "This book features fascinating case histories about what happens in between incarnations."
$11.53 Used & New from: $2.93
(317 customer reviews)

11. Destiny of Souls: New Case Studies of Life Between Lives by Michael Newton The list author says: "Read this one after "Journey of Souls" and experience more captivating case histories."
$12.21 Used & New from: $3.72(112 customer reviews)

12. Courageous Souls: Do We Plan Our Life Challenges Before Birth? by Robert Schwartz The list author says: "The theory of reincarnation taken to the next level, where we must assume responsibility for the choices our souls make."
Used & New from: $12.98(128 customer reviews)

13. Reincarnation: The Phoenix Fire Mystery : An East-West Dialogue on Death and Rebirth from the Worlds of Religion, Science, Psychology, Philosophy by S. L. Cranston The list author says: "Here's an interesting compilation of thoughts on reincarnation, taken from various time periods and cultures. It's more like an encyclopedia than a book to read from cover to cover, but it offers many insights on the cultures and individuals who have believed in reincarnation."
$16.50 Used & New from: $7.14
(4 customer reviews)

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Science is really a religion.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...lly-a-religion

I've been a part of that discussion, arguing that science itself is not a religion, although the way it is practiced often is, because of the human element.

There's plenty of evidence for reincarnation. More than plenty. And for those people who have vivid recall of past life events (including many reading this, for sure), no evidence or 'proof' is needed. The reality is self-evident.

They must be luckier than I am. The reality is definitely not self-evident to me. There's been a complete lack of evidence for reincarnation in my life experience. I have not actively pursued it, so the fault may be mine, but I usually need a reason to investigate, whether it be curiosity, an personal experience, an intriguing story from someone else -- something to pique my interest. Apparently it just didn't "resonate" with me, as they say.

One reason is because their reality is threatened. As Sepia said - supposing you allow this to happen?

Happen away -- I'm always looking to threaten my reality. But I do want to keep the "real" in "reality". I have been mistaken about reality in the past, and I may be mistaken about reality even now. But one thing I do know is that I am not alone. I am not convinced that there is anyone alive that really knows what is real.

[dan i el]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Science is really a religion.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...lly-a-religion

I've been a part of that discussion, arguing that science itself is not a religion, although the way it is practiced often is, because of the human element.

There's plenty of evidence for reincarnation. More than plenty. And for those people who have vivid recall of past life events (including many reading this, for sure), no evidence or 'proof' is needed. The reality is self-evident.

They must be luckier than I am. The reality is definitely not self-evident to me. There's been a complete lack of evidence for reincarnation in my life experience. I have not actively pursued it, so the fault may be mine, but I usually need a reason to investigate, whether it be curiosity, an personal experience, an intriguing story from someone else -- something to pique my interest. Apparently it just didn't "resonate" with me, as they say.

One reason is because their reality is threatened. As Sepia said - supposing you allow this to happen?

Happen away -- I'm always looking to threaten my reality. But I do want to keep the "real" in "reality". I have been mistaken about reality in the past, and I may be mistaken about reality even now. But one thing I do know is that I am not alone. I am not convinced that there is anyone alive that really knows what is real.

Chicodoodoo, obviously belief in reincarnation is subjective but nevertheless i would encourage attempts at Oupensky's (?) hypnogogic imaging..it's very easy! as described by George Gurdijieff? It is mysterious when strange images of other places present themselves...a rationalist may say it is nought but imagery created from input during this life experience buit it might be other. in peace

[Chicodoodoo]

I would like to add that I have since done a little bit of research on the Internet, looking into the best evidence for reincarnation. I find it to be a lot like the religion of practiced religion, and the religion of practiced science. There is a real phenomenon behind the reincarnation religion, but I find it highly likely that the human explanation or interpretation of that phenomenon is incorrect. The proposed explanation for transferred memories is reincarnation. That is certainly a possibility, but only one possibility out of thousands, most of which we can't even conceive of because of our limited knowledge, imagination, and brainpower!

For instance, allow me to draw on a known analogy (an example of our limited knowledge, imagination, and brainpower). What if memories are stored as frequencies in a localized compartment, like electricity in a wire. What if those frequencies can induce matching frequencies in other localized compartments, just like electricity creates magnetic fields that can induce electric flows in other wires? Could not memories "leak" across time and space, and in our ignorance, we call it reincarnation?

What if memories are stored as frequencies in a universally accessible compartment, a kind of shared wire, like a universal consciousness? Would those memories not be accessible under some conditions that we are not aware of by some people for reasons we do not understand?

Those are only two alternate explanations I can conceive of, and they may be as wrong as the reincarnation explanation.

My point is that humans jump to conclusions that appeal to them (or are the only ones available to them), when in reality the conclusions are just plain wrong. How many times in our history have we done that with religions, attributing real phenomena to gods? Or with science, attributing real phenomena to comfortable paradigms that were flawed? We are still doing it, we just have no simple way of knowing when and where we are doing it. The important thing to be aware of is that we are still doing it!

[Arrowwind]

You might have interest in watching some of the movies on how the new Dahli Lama is selected as well as some of the higher level Rimpoches. If I wanted to see some evidience for reincarnation that is where I might look, just for a start. These movies can be found on Netflex...

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
Science never found proof for life after death, nor did it find proof for no life after death -- so science can't say too much about it.

Science is imperfect as people are involved.
Science has no way to explain or prove the existence of life, even while we are alive ourselves.

[king anthony]

Some (or one) species have the ability to transfer the human 'mind' from one 'husk' (body/host) to another; this is where the idea of 'afterlife' or 'eternal life' comes from. The purpose of this is to keep the qualities of, example a human being, and not have to start with a new. Not all human beings have this done.

Putting it into perspective, one can use a software program to image a computer hard drive that has the operating system and data (like taking a snapshot of it). If the hard drive fails, all one needs to do is take the image and impose it 'into' a new hard drive; nothing is lost and the computer resumes from the last time the image was taken.

Reincarnation memories are based on the residual effect of a 'template' being used (a copy of a copy) when the 'downloading' of the 'imaged' human 'operating system' is being imposed 'into' the mind; the human mind is just a biological computer. Any memories, are not that of a past life, but of 'someone else's'.

Some species use this knowledge to project themselves into, example, human beings; this is where the idea of 'possession' comes from. I know for sure my words will not win favor with many here; however, I say I am not here to win favor.

[Chicodoodoo]

Interesting -- a thread "started" by me that I didn't start. I had no idea this could happen. Somebody has some interesting pull here on Avalon. So let me ask here publicly -- who started this thread? Was it Sepia? Was it Bill Ryan? A moderator, perhaps? One thing for sure, it wasn't me!

The posts above this one were apparently extracted from a thread started by Sepia on radioactivity and spiritual healing, which explains why this thread has no starting purpose or consistency. My guess is that my post #8 (above) examining the "religious" aspect of reincarnation was not welcome in Sepia's thread, so like a cancerous tumor, it was cut out and tossed aside, along with other posts on reincarnation (to be fair). Evidently, those believing in reincarnation are not tolerant of those that don't.

So, since I have a new thread, I might as well use it. Let's examine some of the problems that produced this new thread.

Intolerance is one, specifically intolerance of opposing viewpoints. This would seem to be contrary to the spirit of Avalon, known for giving those holding opposing views (whistle-blowers) a forum, but I may have misunderstood the true nature of that spirit.

Like-mindedness is another which is waved proudly from the walls of Avalon like a banner of solidarity. Deliberately excising diversity does result in camaraderie and smooth-sailing but, like in-breeding, produces sickly results.

Not caring (a lack of real empathy towards others) is a third, often caused when one is busily focused on a subtle form of selfishness (a fourth). An example of this kind of selfish and egotistical behavior is pursuing an inward state of nirvana while the outside world is crumbling around you. "All changes must come from within" is the spiritual mantra designed to keep you turned inward in the mistaken belief that you will have your greatest impact on the world through solitary inaction. If only it were that easy.

Those problems are not unique to Avalon, of course. But from all the surface talk you see on Avalon, I never expected they would be so prevalent.

[truthseekerdan]

Dr. Brian Weiss -- Same Soul, Many Bodies 1 of 12

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3A5EFFZ-W7s

Playlist

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
Interesting -- a thread "started" by me that I didn't start. I had no idea this could happen. Somebody has some interesting pull here on Avalon. So let me ask here publicly -- who started this thread? Was it Sepia? Was it Bill Ryan? A moderator, perhaps? One thing for sure, it wasn't me!

The posts above this one were apparently extracted from a thread started by Sepia on radioactivity and spiritual healing,

The post that appears first (Post #1) on a thread is always the post with the oldest date. The posts on any given thread are always presented in order of the date they were first posted. When threads are merged or posts moved between threads, this can lead to a, shall we say, less than obvious ordering.

It would appear from the server logs that Bill did some rearranging of posts, as you describe. I trust that he was making an effort to keep related posts together on the same thread, and unrelated posts on distinct threads.

[sepia]

Thank you Bill for starting the new thread, thank you Paul for supporting.

Chicodoodoo feels thrown out of the sandbox... It's really not needed.

Let me invite you to a cup of coffee!

My favorite brand might suit you, Chiccodoodoo: it's Chicco d'Oro

See the butterfly on the cookies? - Specially for you.

You might not like the idea of reincarnation. But you know what? We can be reborn in this very life - almost like a butterfly.

We can decide that we leave our "painbody" behind and create a new quality. (Eckhart Tolle has written and talked about this.)

I personally invent myself new at least two times a year. Even if the new 'I' looks the same for other people, it makes a different to me. -

In order to grow every snake or lobster or so gets rid of the old skin when it is too tight

Anybody else wants a coffe?

[meeradas]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
"All changes must come from within" is the spiritual mantra designed to keep you turned inward in the mistaken belief that you will have your greatest impact on the world through solitary inaction.

Dear Chdd,

dunno if that helps/ applies here:

Blue is "truer" - for instance, just try and relocate with all your "baggage", and then see if anything has changed in your new surroundings. At best, you'll be inspired and maybe even able to drop some of it thru the "fresh air": What has changed then is... within you [reflected "outside"].

Red could be a misinterpretation. It's not about inaction at all.

Inertness and lazy so-called meditation won't change a thing, you're right. This way it's just an ego-enhancement (adding "baggage"...) - at best, one will be disgusted by it after some time, and get up and move to get things done.

Seemingly sittin' 'round doin' nuthin' works only for the few who can change things on a causal level, in the "outside world"... and even these might have to lift a finger for it, and stir...

In the end, there's no inside or outside.
This you will have to experience (but then "you" are gone, too).

I only had a glimpse of that once [nothing permanent... yet] -
am wishing you the same, brilliant mind!

Cheers!

[should've rather pm'd you... doesn't really belong here in the reincarnation thread]

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
Interesting -- a thread "started" by me that I didn't start. I had no idea this could happen. Somebody has some interesting pull here on Avalon. So let me ask here publicly -- who started this thread? Was it Sepia? Was it Bill Ryan? A moderator, perhaps? One thing for sure, it wasn't me!

Dear Friend,

You are highly logical! So you'll definitely be able to understand this.

I moved the reincarnation posts over to this new thread, so that the two different topics would not get mixed up.

It was my decision (and my fault - see below), as I responded to the request for more information about reincarnation by posting a whole bunch of books from Amazon. That was me going off-topic in Sepia's important thread.

And it is important - she's offering to hold an online seminar there, on the spiritual healing of radioactivity. Can you see that?

That's got nothing much to do with reincarnation. (Our true spiritual nature is the only common factor, though of course that's a highly significant one.)

To try to get this right, I checked first to see if there was an existing reincarnation thread where the subject could continue to be discussed in depth - and to my astonishment, I couldn't find one.

So your questions really did Avalon a service.

But - after I'd moved the posts, I could not "start the thread" myself with a new post. That's because each post keeps its own time stamp, even when it's moved to a new thread: and I couldn't "go back in time" to start it myself.

Does this make more sense now?

None of this was an attack against you. The threads are simply about the subjects in the titles. That's all. What I tried to do was to help your desire to understand more.

That's because here you can discuss this important new topic for hundreds of posts if you like - which I'm very sure many Avalonians would like to discuss with you. It could be one of the most significant threads on the forum, depending on where you and others would like to take it.

And as I said - mea culpa.

That's Latin for "my fault" - look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_culpa

[majapahit]

of course reincarnation is real .. everybody knows that
I do ..
the ET Pleiadians, the Greys and such 'do' reincarnation

haven't you asked them?

[astrid]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0QDT58Q6Zxo

Michael Newton was also a sceptic, until he discovered some hard evidence for himself.

He explains this journey in these 5 videos......

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gDJU49Hk0ZY

https://youtube.com/watch?v=NTMin_UHL58

https://youtube.com/watch?v=PXz-voKGTu0

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZF-go3WAnaY

[Tuza]

Thanks Astrid, has anybody commented on the fact that Constantine omitted the words on reincarnation from the Bible, that also was done to have control over the masses.