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Thread: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    --------

    Hi, All:

    This new video, with author, teacher, mystic, and woman's activist Lucia René, is an intriguing discussion about the role of women - and men - in today's world: essentially an esoteric perspective on what could be called the depth psychology of power.

    Lucia states that the days of the Patriarchy - which has been in command on Planet Earth for thousands of years - are coming to an end. Women are now beginning to stand in their own power... and with it, the role of men is being redefined.

    Whatever gender you are, this is a timely and deeply interesting interview. Lucia's book is an important one for our changing times, and as a man - apologizing for the abusive attitudes and actions of many of my fellow men for countless generations - I'm delighted to be giving it the prominence it deserves.

    Enjoy.

    http://unplugfromthepatriarchy.com

    MP3 download: http://projectavalon.net/Lucia_Rene_...March_2011.mp3

    Video download: http://projectavalon.net/Lucia_Rene_...March_2011.mp4

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=e4vPyClAHqs


    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 28th March 2011 at 07:09.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Why would you apologise for something that other people did Bill?
    That is part of the guilt complex they put into us, reject it.
    We will accumulate enough guilt for the things we do ourselves without taking onboard more.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Why would you apologise for something that other people did Bill?
    That is part of the guilt complex they put into us, reject it.
    We will accumulate enough guilt for the things we do ourselves without taking onboard more.
    As a man, I was apologizing for the things that men have done to women over the last several thousand years.

    Saying "I don't have to apologize, it was nothing to do with me" is exactly the kind of thing that men do.

    You may not have had time yet to watch the entire interview. At one point I talk about Truth and Reconciliation, citing the Commission established in South Africa in 1995 after the end of Apartheid.

    The objective was not to establish guilt or to apportion blame: it was to tell the truth so that a chapter could be ended.

    That was the sense in which I apologized: a recognition that these things have been happening.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 28th March 2011 at 05:59.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Why would you apologise for something that other people did Bill?
    That is part of the guilt complex they put into us, reject it.
    We will accumulate enough guilt for the things we do ourselves without taking onboard more.
    I know it might sound strange...

    I very much loved reading that Bill apologized (I would rather say: ask for forgiveness) for things others did. (The words are used a bit differently in German though...)

    Imagine you have experienced something terrible (most of us have in one way or the other) and I'd listen to your experience very closely with all my love and compassion, and then I would honestly bend my head and hold your hands saying:

    "I apologize with all my heart for what was done to you." -

    In this way I would give your pain and grief a space within my own compassion, within my love - and this can allow you to let go of it.

    Try it: I honestly, honestly ask you for forgiveness for what was done to you.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    For those of us who believe in reincarnation ... I expect we have all made contributions to patriarchy over the last couple thousand years. Most familiar with past life regression also say we experience both genders as well as a wide variance of social conditions.

    That said, as others suggest, this should not be about blame but rather forgiveness, healing and moving forward.
    Listened intently for the Sound of One Hand Clapping ... only to hear the sound of the other hand Whacking me Upside the Head!

    Don't forget to take the time each day to smile.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    It was an exellent inteview with a most charming, knowledgeable and powerful woman.

    I really liked it. I hope you apologized on my behalf too, Bill. Thank you.


    This world is filled to the brim with feminin energy. So ladies and

    gents supply your self for next stage of the journey.
    Last edited by jorr lundstrom; 28th March 2011 at 16:12.
    We are free, have always been. LOL

    There is no sharing.

    Im responible for wot I say, not wot you understand

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    hey bill is the video available for download?

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    I apologize as well.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by bennycog (here)
    hey bill is the video available for download?
    Yes: http://projectavalon.net/Lucia_Rene_...March_2011.mp4

    The audio download is the same URL, but with .mp3 as the suffix.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Why would you apologise for something that other people did Bill?
    That is part of the guilt complex they put into us, reject it.
    We will accumulate enough guilt for the things we do ourselves without taking onboard more.
    As a man, I was apologizing for the things that men have done to women over the last several thousand years.

    Saying "I don't have to apologize, it was nothing to do with me" is exactly the kind of thing that men do.

    You may not have had time yet to watch the entire interview. At one point I talk about Truth and Reconciliation, citing the Commission established in South Africa in 1995 after the end of Apartheid.

    The objective was not to establish guilt or to apportion blame: it was to tell the truth so that a chapter could be ended.

    That was the sense in which I apologized: a recognition that these things have been happening.
    I recognise your motives, that isn't a problem.
    The thing is, we are being conditioned to apologise for things that we have not done ourselves and more importantly, would not do.
    Take Australia for example. We have sorry day where we are expected to say sorry every year for the things that the alleged authorities did to the aborigines.
    I would not have ever thought of any of what they did do, let alone do it.
    Guilt is a funny thing, it can form a roadblock on our spiritual path, one that can be hard to circumvent.
    Trust me on this, I have struggled with it for years.
    That is why I make the comments.

    Quote Posted by sepia (here)
    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Why would you apologise for something that other people did Bill?
    That is part of the guilt complex they put into us, reject it.
    We will accumulate enough guilt for the things we do ourselves without taking onboard more.
    I know it might sound strange...

    I very much loved reading that Bill apologized (I would rather say: ask for forgiveness) for things others did. (The words are used a bit differently in German though...)

    Imagine you have experienced something terrible (most of us have in one way or the other) and I'd listen to your experience very closely with all my love and compassion, and then I would honestly bend my head and hold your hands saying:

    "I apologize with all my heart for what was done to you." -

    In this way I would give your pain and grief a space within my own compassion, within my love - and this can allow you to let go of it.

    Try it: I honestly, honestly ask you for forgiveness for what was done to you.
    I know full well the power of empathy and I get it, I just don't believe in the guilt spreading.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    I recognise your motives, that isn't a problem.
    The thing is, we are being conditioned to apologise for things that we have not done ourselves and more importantly, would not do.
    Take Australia for example. We have sorry day where we are expected to say sorry every year for the things that the alleged authorities did to the aborigines.
    I would not have ever thought of any of what they did do, let alone do it.
    Guilt is a funny thing, it can form a roadblock on our spiritual path, one that can be hard to circumvent.
    Trust me on this, I have struggled with it for years.
    That is why I make the comments.
    Dear Lord Sid:

    This is not a push-back. Take a pause and read again what Sepia and I were both saying (different views of the same elephant).

    When you wrote

    Quote Trust me on this, I have struggled with it for years.
    ... may I say: that's evident. You're reading guilt (ask yourself if this is your projection...) where neither Sepia or I were talking about guilt at all. We're talking about acknowledgement. That's entirely different.

    Trust me on this - I do not feel guilty. And neither should you. But I still acknowledge the wrongdoing.
    Last edited by Paul; 28th March 2011 at 08:59. Reason: trim down quoted material a bit

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    I think Lord Sidious on the one hand, and Sepia and Bill on the other hand, are speaking from two different perspectives.

    From the point of view of someone who takes responsibility for their actions as a separate individual, you don't apologize for the acts of another. You just don't. I can well understand where you're coming from, Lord Sidious, if that's what you're saying.

    But from a more caring, more connected perspective, apologizing as was done above is -not- saying "I did it and I should not have", but rather saying to the other person "You are not to blame for what befell you, I acknowledge the pain it caused, and I reach out to you with a healing touch." To be honest, I don't understand that view myself as well, but that's what I heard Bill and Sepia speaking of, and I treasure it.
    -- Formerly known as "ThePythonicCow", aka "Cow", "PCow", "TPC", "PC", "Mooster", ...

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Simply put ... when my wife, child or whomever says "I have a headache ... or hurt my elbow ... (etc) I say "I am sorry" or "I am sorry to hear that" showing empathy for their pain.

    I am certainly *not* showing guilt or taking responsibility (athough my wife having a headache could be debatable )
    Last edited by Calz; 28th March 2011 at 07:59.
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Take Australia for example. We have sorry day where we are expected to say sorry every year for the things that the alleged authorities did to the aborigines.
    I would not have ever thought of any of what they did do, let alone do it.
    I don't know of that practice (sorry day) personally, but from what you say it sounds like a rather sorry state of affairs to me too, Lord Sidious.

    It sounds not like personally giving another person acknowledgment, caring and reassurance that they are not to blame for what befell them, but rather like another sort of bad mind trip that TPTB send us on, to weaken each of us with guilt and set one against the other.

    It does not sound like what I heard Bill and Sepia speaking of.
    -- Formerly known as "ThePythonicCow", aka "Cow", "PCow", "TPC", "PC", "Mooster", ...

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Wonderful woman, super information and Bill... you're the nuts mate

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Dear Lord Sid:

    This is not a push-back. Take a pause and read again what Sepia and I were both saying (different views of the same elephant).

    When you wrote

    Quote Trust me on this, I have struggled with it for years.
    ... may I say: that's evident. You're reading guilt (ask yourself if this is your projection...) where neither Sepia or I were talking about guilt at all. We're talking about acknowledgement. That's entirely different.

    Trust me on this - I do not feel guilty. And neither should you. But I still acknowledge the wrongdoing.
    Bill, I know you too well to take offense at your posts.
    You are right about me and projecting guilt, but you already knew that.
    I have no problems with acknowledging wrong doings, that is only fair and natural.
    It isn't so much you guys and the guilt, I suppose I did it again, I know the context of what I meant, but didn't think about it when I posted, no one else does yet.
    It is the others, the ones that are the distractors, the ones paid to make us do anything negative, that is how they operate.
    Whether it is the feminists getting women to hate men, the communists getting workers to hate the middle class, whatever flavour we like to show, that is their modus operandi.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    I think Lord Sidious on the one hand, and Sepia and Bill on the other hand, are speaking from two different perspectives.

    From the point of view of someone who takes responsibility for their actions as a separate individual, you don't apologize for the acts of another. You just don't. I can well understand where you're coming from, Lord Sidious, if that's what you're saying.

    But from a more caring, more connected perspective, apologizing as was done above is -not- saying "I did it and I should not have", but rather saying to the other person "You are not to blame for what befell you, I acknowledge the pain it caused, and I reach out to you with a healing touch." To be honest, I don't understand that view myself as well, but that's what I heard Bill and Sepia speaking of, and I treasure it.
    Yeah, Paul, you got what I meant.
    You got both sides and you figured out the crossed wires.
    Thanks for your input.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Take Australia for example. We have sorry day where we are expected to say sorry every year for the things that the alleged authorities did to the aborigines.
    I would not have ever thought of any of what they did do, let alone do it.
    I don't know of that practice (sorry day) personally, but from what you say it sounds like a rather sorry state of affairs to me too, Lord Sidious.

    It sounds not like personally giving another person acknowledgment, caring and reassurance that they are not to blame for what befell them, but rather like another sort of bad mind trip that TPTB send us on, to weaken each of us with guilt and set one against the other.

    It does not sound like what I heard Bill and Sepia speaking of.
    You are correct in saying what it is and what it isn't.
    I have to remember to make sure I explain my context before I hit the post button.
    Last edited by Paul; 28th March 2011 at 08:55. Reason: trim down quoted material a bit

  29. Link to Post #17
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    bill:
    Quote As a man, I was apologizing for the things that men have done to women over the last several thousand years.

    Saying "I don't have to apologize, it was nothing to do with me" is exactly the kind of thing that men do.
    polarising this issue using male/female assumed distinction doesn't begin to make a good premise from which to start a discussion..

    what is that that "males" did to females that didn't take females' buying into and making it possible? (and for the root causes of women's discrimination in society, maybe refer to clara zetkin and other early 20th century female political activists)

    in my understanding, crossing the boundaries of the old paradigm is about recognising that both male and female dwell in each and every one of us..also acknowlidging lethal tendency to give aggresive/competitive impulses an undeserved legitimacy...the resolution therefore has to lie in surpassing that mentality as whole - it cannot be confined to males alone..

    the way i see it: humility is good - apologies work when lovingly targeted...or else, things may begin to sound as if from a confession box...best wishes l


    .

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  31. Link to Post #18
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Hello Everyone,

    Seems like guilt and blame is a touchy subject here and just not with regards to women. Interesting..., I think it's opened up a can of worms in more ways than one.

    One of my ancestors was an early pioneer in Oz and lived with the Aboriginals, treated them well and with utmost respect and was ostrosized and destroyed personally by another well-known Australian pioneer for doing so. As well my ancestor provided the foundation for the oldest company in Australia, still going strong today. Long story. He was an 'elite'. You never see him in the history books of course.

    I personally have no guilt over the treatment of our Aboriginal people, certainly not from my ancestor, nor from anything I have ever done. But do I apologise and say sorry for what has happened to our Aboriginal people in our short history. Of course I do! It's a no-brainer, it has nothing to do with guilt, it has everything to do with empathy and compassion. Guilt is a personal thing. Empathy is for the whole. You don't have to feel guilt to feel empathy.

    Studying Aboriginal history has also deepened my sadness and sorryness. I will never be sorry for saying sorry.

    Kind regards,
    Lily
    Last edited by Lily de Cuir; 28th March 2011 at 08:54. Reason: Spelling and grammar

  32. Link to Post #19
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    I think it is high time that Avalon start a Sorry Day for what's been done to women around here.

    Pick a date, everyone.
    How about 11/11/11?

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Oh, by the way, speaking for myself here as a woman, Bill, apology accepted.

    Lord Sid, for the next 24 hours you will be reliving all your female past lives in all parallel universes....

    Meet you here tomorrow and see what you have to say for yourself then....

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