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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Hi there,
    I find myself getting rather frustrated over the focus of male and female in this thread. The fact that one is acknowledging that there is a patriarchy automatically creates a bias, and immediately creates a polarization.
    The only way true gender neutrality can occur in this society is if we do not use such terms as matriarchy or patriarchy in the first place...

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    Quote Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
    We all have two hands ... if necessary perhaps we can gather 16 and "go for it" in a masculine sort of way???
    Dude ... I'm a woman <evil grin> and I have no idea how men go around organizing these things but it just happens when men do their thing ... I think.

    <edit insert begin>

    But we women got your back. Count on it.

    <edit insert end>

    Sierra bopping internally to Jimmy Cliff's "The Harder They Come, the Harder They Fall"

    I was speaking in jest.

    Working with a 12 step program to help me with my addiction to smileys.

    Gosh ... if you have our back does that mean you are *walk-ins* ???
    Listened intently for the Sound of One Hand Clapping ... only to hear the sound of the other hand Whacking me Upside the Head!

    Don't forget to take the time each day to smile.

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    United States Moderator Sierra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)

    I was speaking in jest.

    Working with a 12 step program to help me with my addiction to smileys.

    Gosh ... if you have our back does that mean you are *walk-ins* ???
    Oh no! I love smileys!

    Looking down at equipment ... nope no *walk-in*! Yet! Eeeeks!

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    G'day All,

    Some have expressed difficulty in listening/watching this interview. At first I was reluctant to comment on the interview as the feminist message Lucia partially presents is, in my own opinion, valuable and it is not my place to respond or comment in relation to a feminist perspective as I have neither cultural nor physical experience in the challenges of being of the female gender in a patriarchal society, or any other society in my present incarnation for that matter! As I have previously stated I have been a long time active feminist supporter in the struggle for equal rights within the work place as well as within broader society. This having been said, I undertook an analysis of the interview through word count and analysis of directive affirmation statements. This should not be interpreted as a negative reflection on the veracity of Lucia's interview or work, rather it is directed at those who had their "spidey senses tingling" while watching/listening to it and as a possible reason as to why this occurred.

    I am sorry that I can not refer to a deeper psychic validity in relation to this analysis. It is an interpretation of a statistical analysis and not intended as anything other than that.

    Lucia's use of what I shall call 'in text reinforcing directive affirmations' was extensive.
    If the audio is listened to this becomes almost immediately apparent (I admit not having watched the video).
    The single word 'in text reinforcing directive affirmations' that I refer too are "right", "yes" and "yar".
    The multi word examples are "you know" and "you see".
    The single word 'in text reinforcing directive affirmations' keywords used when they were answers to a question were not included in the data set.
    An example of this is at time stamp 32:10 -> 32:20 where "yes" is said by Lucia twice in respose to a question Bill asked around the awakening of consciousness through the interim period. This example of the use of the directive word "yes" was chosen so as to distinguish between its normal use in language, as in this time stamped reference, and its directive useage. This difference is shown in time segment 32:33 - 32:37 "Yes, into the third dimension which we're calling the physical, yes(?)". The question mark (?) following the yes directive keyword hopefully shows the difference in word usage as used in this analysis. Lucia waited for a response from Bill in agreement with her before continuing. This works well in a 'one on one' situation but may be a problem in the recorded interview format.

    The following table is split into 4 sequential time segments of roughly 20 minutes each (0:00 to 20:00, 20:00 to 40:20, 40:20 to 61:30 and 61:30 to end) and shows the number of times the keyword directive affirmations were used to reinforce a certain dynamic.


    I was stunned at the uniformity of the pattern exhibited within each time segment at being near to the 33 directives per 20 minute segment.
    In itself not unusual as this would indicate that Lucia uses this in her normal conversational construction pattern and that it was in all likelihood not deliberately "put on".
    The above table does not include the two word or more directive phrases used such as "you know" and "you see".
    If the interview segment 43:35 -> 45:20 is examined the following results are evident:


    This may not appear very interesting, however when looked at as 6 directive words being used within the space of 105 seconds I think it is.
    This means that Lucia was reinforcing her own statements (in this time segment) more than once every 20 seconds.
    The interview had a grand total of 131 single word 'in text reinforcing directive affirmations' in 84 minutes.
    I do not think it outlandish to say that Lucia did this at least once every 30 seconds during her part of the interviews dialogue.

    Why/how did I notice this and what difference does it make?
    I have made it a practice to listen to the way things are said, how they are repeated, physical gestures (though not in this case) and word pattern repetition.
    When I notice it I ask why was it used and/or was it a conscious decision or learned behaviour?
    In this interview it appears to be non-conscious and in all likelihood a result of learned behaviour through imitation (not unusual following a master/disciple indoctrination period).
    That's all.

    I repeat. This is not intended as a critique of Lucia's message, that is not my place to do, merely that this may be one reason why some found this interview hard going.

    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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  8. Link to Post #125
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Maria Stade (here)
    Quote Posted by sepia (here)
    Quote Posted by Maria Stade (here)


    :
    ooops - is this really the kind of men you would like to see in this world? That are needed on this planet?

    Although - she seems to benefit a lot, that's for sure. But he seems to have lost...

    Sepia
    I would see all kinds of men. Maybe this one is lost or maybe he choose to be so.

    Maria


    Yes I agree, I should have thought about it more careful.

    I was so perplex about these two people being presented as the 'good example'
    my comment poured out of me and then I ran out of the thread...

    It can be on topic - because of the gender-discussion going on here - being a very complex one.
    (Not going into Tantra here...)

    - Yes I agree, all different kind of men and women are welcome in the future world
    - Yes - any couple has a free will to do what ever they want as long as both agree.
    - And yes, these two people seem to enjoy each other greatly.

    I just cannot see them as role models.

    By looking at there energy-field (and I'm not the only capable to do this on this Forum):

    -> you see, that the Lady is fully present in all her chakras. Each and every one is happily radiating: open heart, centered in her third eye, all fine here.

    -> But the man, although he shows a happy face, is only living through his first, second, and partially his third Chakra -
    and this is a tragedy.
    This is more the relationship of a Lady with her beloved pet than a relationship between two equally strong personalities. In the long run this is abuse - just the other way around.

    And this made me run away from this thread.

    I apoligize if I have hurt anybody with my statement - this certainly wasn't intended.

    Best wishes, Sepia
    Last edited by sepia; 31st March 2011 at 07:33.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by sepia (here)
    Quote Posted by Maria Stade (here)
    Quote Posted by sepia (here)
    Quote Posted by Maria Stade (here)


    :
    ooops - is this really the kind of men you would like to see in this world? That are needed on this planet?

    Although - she seems to benefit a lot, that's for sure. But he seems to have lost...

    Sepia
    I would see all kinds of men. Maybe this one is lost or maybe he choose to be so.

    Maria


    Yes I agree, I should have thought about it more careful.

    I was so perplex about these two people being presented as the 'good example'
    my comment poured out of me and then I ran out of the thread...

    It can be on topic - because of the gender-discussion going on here - being a very complex one.
    (Not going into Tantra here...)

    - Yes I agree, all different kind of men and women are welcome in the future world
    - Yes - any couple has a free will to do what ever they want as long as both agree.
    - And yes, these two people seem to enjoy each other greatly.

    I just cannot see them as role models.

    By looking at there energy-field (and I'm not the only capable to do this on this Forum):

    -> you see, that the Lady is fully present in all her chakras. Each and every one is happily radiating: open heart, centered in her third eye, all fine here.

    -> But the man, although he shows a happy face, is only living through his first, second, and partially his third Chakra -
    and this is a tragedy.
    This is more the relationship of a Lady with her beloved pet than a relationship between two equally strong personalities. In the long run this is abuse - just the other way around.

    And this made me run away from this thread.

    I apoligize if I have hurt anybody with my statement - this certainly wasn't intended.

    Best wishes, Sepia
    Hi Sepia

    I can absolutely aline with you in your observation, This is more the relationship of a Lady with her beloved pet than a relationship between two equally strong personalities.

    She has quite obviously found her "Tantra Playmate", And from my observational stand point (Blind Man Feeling the Elephant) it looks like he's eating all the pies!!

    It doesn't resonate that she is abusing him (He is obviously a consenting adult) and is lapping it up.

    She is giving him what he needs and vice versa.

    No apologies needed here, very much enjoy reading your philosophy.

    Regards
    Ace
    The lie is different at every level...........

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Im no expert. But are exercises only for those who functions totally.
    We are free, have always been. LOL

    There is no sharing.

    Im responible for wot I say, not wot you understand

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Thanks I will check it out in the next few days when I have time. :-)

    Noted in this thread though is an issue related to semantics.
    The concept of apology and guilt bought about by its introduction to the thread with the sentence, " and as a man - apologizing for the abusive attitudes and actions of many of my fellow men for countless generations - I'm delighted to be giving it the prominence it deserves."
    .. Is probably going to more frequently read as endorsement to holding personal guilt and feeling delighted to pay penance. It is in the language. Not so much the perception of the reader (as far as the tipping of scales would go).
    Latter clarifications were more concise and appropriate to the original intention of meaning.
    Nevertheless, I am picking that the topic was scheduled to be bought up by the nature of the interview.
    These discussions can be challenging and messy. There are extremists on both sides, as far as the battle of the sexes go. Quite a big one, it gets us all, we are all one or the other, and much of the control over us is linked to gender.

    The discussion doesn't usually go anywhere near belief or non belief in reincarnation. If that be true, then we are likely to have existed as both genders. Who knows, the biggest man hater might have been a chauvinistic pig in a past life.
    Understanding spiritual androgyny explained. lol.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Thanks really I can take it to my dreams
    lol of course and I hope it is delicious
    Your welcome ..

    Ever heard of Disclosure ? I'm not worried about the Thing, people will do that..it's peoples jobs, to educate each other on the topic .

    I can take care of my heavenly duties ..


    have munchies ..


    live close to nature ...among friends..



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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    I've been caught here for timebeing that's true but people seem to be very careless about each other here, where I live. An annonymous society with all its pettiness planned forwards.

    One Japanese friend described about the same to me when he talked about his life in Japan, I believe he lived in Tokyo.

    Therefor, it has to be sort of multicultural pattern on the Earth at the moment . People live, lots of them, like empty shells , like civilized animals,
    no I do not like this pattern.


    It needs to change





    Kalachakra the XI

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    In Unplugging the Patriarchy, Lucia explains the nature of the change which is happening right now and will anchor in 2012, including how roles have been reversed for the last 5000 years and how this has meant a huge shutting down of the Heart Chakra, which is where men are naturally centered.

    She also explained to me that Men are Structure. This information put together a lot of pieces for me.

    I have been speaking for months (and some people for years) about becoming heart centered and opening the Heart Center.

    The Heart Center is a space from between and just above the shoulder blades to just behind the breastbone and below the throat chakra, encompassing the heart chakra. This is where the "form" or structure is contained that links all the different bodies, self, soul and spirit. Command Central as it were. When fully functioning, energy flows undisturbed and healthily, experienced as unconditional love, or simply enormous divine energy. - If shut down, one of the ways Power is experienced, or desired, is "power over others".

    As you know, men and women both have masculine and feminine energies within themselves, and it depending on what body one has incarnated in, either feminine or masculine energy is predominant for that lifetime, but there are exceptions to this rule.

    The reason we have been healing, opening and changing our viewpoint to the Heart Center is because this is where structure resides. And without structure, power cannot be channeled and embodied in a healthy way.

    The natural state is for women to be Power (CHI) and for men to be Structure. Structure includes defense, nurturing, love, service, and making sure everything is running smoothly so that nothing is clogging up the flow of Power.

    This natural paradigm is what we are moving back into on a world wide scale. It is still dual based, as this is a dual reality, but everything is in its proper place. For example, crude oil is not an evil substance. It is part of Mother Earth and serves many roles and purposes. However, when it is in the "wrong" place, it kills and pollutes and creates much suffering.

    Once we are done, we will all be able to move onto much higher level games in life.
    Last edited by Inelia; 31st March 2011 at 16:31.
    I'm allergic to seriousness

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote The natural state is for women to be Power (CHI) and for men to be Structure. Structure includes defense, nurturing, love, service, and making sure everything is running smoothly so that nothing is clogging up the flow of Power.
    The above phrase briefly describes the old aged dogma , hierarchy and pattern the 'cultured' society was built upon,
    the rules and the division. 'We' ( men , could be women in matriarchal society ) are the law , the knowing , the sctructure..'you' are different, you have no heads ( but big hearts ) and can do the job that's needed.

    'We' will create the order and 'you' will do what is expected from you ..



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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by sepia (here)
    Quote Posted by Maria Stade (here)
    Quote Posted by sepia (here)
    Quote Posted by Maria Stade (here)


    :
    ooops - is this really the kind of men you would like to see in this world? That are needed on this planet?

    Although - she seems to benefit a lot, that's for sure. But he seems to have lost...

    Sepia
    I would see all kinds of men. Maybe this one is lost or maybe he choose to be so.

    Maria


    Yes I agree, I should have thought about it more careful.

    I was so perplex about these two people being presented as the 'good example'
    my comment poured out of me and then I ran out of the thread...

    It can be on topic - because of the gender-discussion going on here - being a very complex one.
    (Not going into Tantra here...)

    - Yes I agree, all different kind of men and women are welcome in the future world
    - Yes - any couple has a free will to do what ever they want as long as both agree.
    - And yes, these two people seem to enjoy each other greatly.

    I just cannot see them as role models.

    By looking at there energy-field (and I'm not the only capable to do this on this Forum):

    -> you see, that the Lady is fully present in all her chakras. Each and every one is happily radiating: open heart, centered in her third eye, all fine here.

    -> But the man, although he shows a happy face, is only living through his first, second, and partially his third Chakra -
    and this is a tragedy.
    This is more the relationship of a Lady with her beloved pet than a relationship between two equally strong personalities. In the long run this is abuse - just the other way around.

    And this made me run away from this thread.

    I apoligize if I have hurt anybody with my statement - this certainly wasn't intended.

    Best wishes, Sepia
    Sepia, you are completely right. Their relationship will not last for long - fake happiness. When someone is propagating out loud how happy she/he is, in fact it is right the opposite.

    I am sorry to say, but they look like 15 y/o lovers. I mean their behavior is like that (not natural). Did they missed the train?

    He is more into younger woman, but over 50 is next to him. That explains complete picture. (just kidding, they are nice couple, role-models)

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Inelia (here)
    In Unplugging the Patriarchy, Lucia explains the nature of the change which is happening right now and will anchor in 2012, including how roles have been reversed for the last 5000 years and how this has meant a huge shutting down of the Heart Chakra, which is where men are naturally centered.

    She also explained to me that Men are Structure. This information put together a lot of pieces for me.

    I have been speaking for months (and some people for years) about becoming heart centered and opening the Heart Center.

    The Heart Center is a space from between and just above the shoulder blades to just behind the breastbone and below the throat chakra, encompassing the heart chakra. This is where the "form" or structure is contained that links all the different bodies, self, soul and spirit. Command Central as it were. When fully functioning, energy flows undisturbed and healthily, experienced as unconditional love, or simply enormous divine energy. - If shut down, one of the ways Power is experienced, or desired, is "power over others".

    As you know, men and women both have masculine and feminine energies within themselves, and it depending on what body one has incarnated in, either feminine or masculine energy is predominant for that lifetime, but there are exceptions to this rule.

    The reason we have been healing, opening and changing our viewpoint to the Heart Center is because this is where structure resides. And without structure, power cannot be channeled and embodied in a healthy way.

    The natural state is for women to be Power (CHI) and for men to be Structure. Structure includes defense, nurturing, love, service, and making sure everything is running smoothly so that nothing is clogging up the flow of Power.

    This natural paradigm is what we are moving back into on a world wide scale. It is still dual based, as this is a dual reality, but everything is in its proper place. For example, crude oil is not an evil substance. It is part of Mother Earth and serves many roles and purposes. However, when it is in the "wrong" place, it kills and pollutes and creates much suffering.

    Once we are done, we will all be able to move onto much higher level games in life.
    How do you know that? ...Maybe it is only your opinion, ... be more explicit.

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Quote The natural state is for women to be Power (CHI) and for men to be Structure. Structure includes defense, nurturing, love, service, and making sure everything is running smoothly so that nothing is clogging up the flow of Power.
    The above phrase briefly describes the old aged dogma , hierarchy and pattern the 'cultured' society was built upon,
    the rules and the division. 'We' ( men , could be women in matriarchal society ) are the law , the knowing , the sctructure..'you' are different, you have no heads ( but big hearts ) and can do the job that's needed.

    'We' will create the order and 'you' will do what is expected from you ..


    Read again. We ALL move our focus from our heads to our hearts. We ALL have male and female energy. And we have, or choose one which is predominant. And YES, we ARE all different. Completely and utterly different from each other. There are not two persons who are the same. What is wrong with being different? Nothing. If we were all the same, this planet would be very, very boring.

    Quote Posted by FrankoL (here)

    How do you know that? ...Maybe it is only your opinion, ... be more explicit.
    45 years on the planet effectively working with thousands of men and women on their personal ascension.
    Last edited by Inelia; 31st March 2011 at 21:15.
    I'm allergic to seriousness

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Read again. We ALL move our focus from our heads to our hearts. We ALL have male and female energy. And we have, or choose one which is predominant. And YES, we ARE all different. Completely and utterly different from each other. There are not two persons who are the same. What is wrong with being different? Nothing. If we were all the same, this planet would be very, very boring.
    Yes . we do. I'm not on the argumentative side . Just don't forget that rising the energy succesfully from heart to head ( so we are actually able to use our heads again ) may pose equally difficult task .

    Everyone has a valid point ..


    As you probably know from the yoga theory ( or similar sciences ) , the energy has natural tendency to drop down unless we force it move up.

    The 'up' in this case, moving from coarse to more complicated ..is not easy task.

    The reason why many need to re-experience their heart ( we all do ) is because we found that what is in our heads is not enough ..

    I mean, there can be plenty of volume , energy, speed but little discernment .

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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    I really enjoyed your interview with Ms Rene. She is very eloquent and I'm going to buy a stake of books to give as gifts. I wish I had her calm, and I thought your apology was very thoughtful. That doesn't happen often and is always appreciated.

    Just the other day I apologize to store clerk because another customer was so horribly rude the clerk was fighting back the tears. It had nothing to do with me but I felt she deserved an apology and to know that someone was listening. This is something that thoughtful people do and we should never stop.

    Gentlemen, this book would make a perfect gift for any woman in your life, including your moms.

    Cherie

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  32. Link to Post #138
    Netherlands Avalon Retired Member Victoria Tintagel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Hey Avaloneans, men and women If you believe in past lives, which I do, then we've all danced before, in both genders and now that we're presented with that karma, played out in all sorts of ways: the way we use(d) and balance(d) both qualities, the pain of that in ourselves, awakens and longs to be forgiven. Your choice and mine, always. Many of my friends grow through changes in their relationships, no longer able to avoid the truth of it and start dusting off the false images. And even within my life, as a single woman, the relationship with myself is exactly the same, in that process.

    If you want to see it like "as within, so without" modern society crumbles under the dominance of patriarchy: life is squeezed out of things that thrive on it and they die: species disappear and chronic diseases increase. Synthetic foodproducts are on our dinner tables, mind control defines the state of our brains and emotions, if we allow that to happen. Our hearts and minds together, are able to discern and make healthy choices.
    Acknowledging the beauty and power of both, in harmony. Always moving and changing, never rigid, so that we keep finding new balance each day, learning and making mistakes on our path. In our hearts we may forgive our pain and heal with compassion, like we may forgive others and heal our relationships.

    Only then we can begin to see and appreciate the qualities of both masculine and feminine energy. And while we need both sides, here in 3D reality, to live, give life and love, in marriage and companionship, we can learn from each other, be open to each other's qualities and see the competition that creeps in sometimes. To use feminine and masculine energy in ourselves, in a balanced way, is the meaning of the Sacred Marriage: to join the base chakras with the love of our heart: our inner sanctuary. And use power in a beneficial way.

    We are at the end of a 26.000 year cycle, in 2012, according the Maya, the last 13.000 years in patriarchy dominance, the ending, like Lucia Renee explains here. The fun part of looking at this from an overview, is that after this there will be a 13.000 year cycle of matriarchy and then, again, a cycle of patriarchy. So, it's really a cosmic game. We play this game on a human level, with our personal drama, learning to see ourselves as a spiritual being, ever evolving. I love Sepia's suggestion to be compassionate towards another's pain and ask forgiveness for what's caused this pain in him/her. I believe in the goodness of the human heart and I can see that all negativity stems from being hurt and wounded. I learned to see that in myself and in others. Thank you Bill, for a wonderful interview!
    Namaste to all of you, be in grace, Victoria Tintagel.

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  34. Link to Post #139
    United States Moderator Sierra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by cjhepburn (here)
    <snip>
    Just the other day I apologize to store clerk because another customer was so horribly rude the clerk was fighting back the tears. It had nothing to do with me but I felt she deserved an apology and to know that someone was listening. This is something that thoughtful people do and we should never stop.
    <snip>
    Cherie
    Once I was waiting in line behind a woman to pay for my clothes. The woman in front of me was being SO rude! The sales clerk kept apologizing to me for taking so long and I kept saying no problem I'm not in a hurry. I get to the counter and because she was so grateful for my patience, she gave me her sales clerk 20% discount ...

    Sierra

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  36. Link to Post #140
    United States Moderator Sierra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unplugging the Patriarchy - a new interview with Lucia Rene

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    <snip>
    Just don't forget that rising the energy succesfully from heart to head ( so we are actually able to use our heads again ) may pose equally difficult task .
    <snip>
    Moan ... <banging head on desk>

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    <snip>
    I mean, there can be plenty of volume , energy, speed but little discernment .
    You got that right sister

    Sierra

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