Nassim Haramein - Fraud or Sage?

[K626]

Posted by Dale (here)
I took a moment to view a presentation by Mr. Haramein. From my perspective, he is neither fraud nor sage. He seems to be a man earnestly attempting to make sense of a vast, vast world.

With regard to his idea of the Universe being similar to a fractal system, his reasoning is astute. However, his opinions and theories concerning the Big Bang theory are less thorough.

He's an interesting fellow I'd enjoy having a dinner conversation with, but rationally, some of his claims do seem a bit lofty. I feel the Universe is far too grand for our small, human brains to comprehend. Far too intricate and timeless.

Not really as it wouldn't exist without us observing it.

K

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
the next day the lack of that education can make you a fraud.

At no point did I comment Nassim's education.

His "thinking" is utter nonsense, smoke and mirrors made to sound persuasive to an audience with insufficient scientific thinking capabilities.

It does not bother me in the slightest that he tosses out most of modern physics. Modern physics will almost certainly join prior physics models in the trash heap at some point.

But it will not be replaced with this sort of fraudulent pseudo-spiritual babel fish nonsense. Of that I am certain.

[K626]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
the next day the lack of that education can make you a fraud.

At no point did I comment Nassim's education.

His "thinking" is utter nonsense, smoke and mirrors made to sound persuasive to an audience with insufficient scientific thinking capabilities.

It does not bother me in the slightest that he tosses out most of modern physics. Modern physics will almost certainly join prior physics models in the trash heap at some point.

But it will not be replaced with this sort of fraudulent pseudo-spiritual babel fish nonsense. Of that I am certain.

Yup. And the reason is that our theories of the universe are in a constant state of flux as waves of new discoveries/observations/will replace old models. The universe is as much our projection as we are a projection of IT.

K

[CyRus]

Posted by K626 (here)

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
the next day the lack of that education can make you a fraud.

At no point did I comment Nassim's education.

His "thinking" is utter nonsense, smoke and mirrors made to sound persuasive to an audience with insufficient scientific thinking capabilities.

It does not bother me in the slightest that he tosses out most of modern physics. Modern physics will almost certainly join prior physics models in the trash heap at some point.

But it will not be replaced with this sort of fraudulent pseudo-spiritual babel fish nonsense. Of that I am certain.

Yup. And the reason is that our theories of the universe are in a constant state of flux as waves of new discoveries/observations/will replace old models. The universe is as much our projection as we are a projection of IT.

K

You might be correct in this reasoning. The holographic universe is a rather strong theory I believe, and a device is being made to prove this fact.
I would like to take this opportunity to quote the English physicist, astronomer and mathematician James Hopwood Jeans:

""The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter... we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter."

[greybeard]

This may be off topic but is this man saying similar to Nassim or not?
Opinions appreciated

Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uFhlPdZ15Cs

[Maria Stade]

Icecold
?????????

The man has a big ego.

LOL yes he has !

Maybe that is what is blocking some information flow and create resistans in others !

But on the other side of the coin if they would not have this ego they would maybe not say and share with others.

Or what do you think ??

Wilcox has one to LOL

But they are as they are and shine their truth as they understand it !

That is good enough.

[Icecold]

He's an interesting fellow I'd enjoy having a dinner conversation with, but rationally, some of his claims do seem a bit lofty. I feel the Universe is far too grand for our small, human brains to comprehend. Far too intricate and timeless.

Agreed.

BTW Paul is exactly correct regarding the AIP conference proceedings. Anyone can submit a paper to a conference and talk about it. Peer review has nothing to do with it. Peer review is a generic term for a process of self-regulation by a profession or a process of evaluation involving qualified individuals within the relevant field. It usually is an extended process of submission and negotiation. He has not done this. This thread is a form of layman review and reflects what would happen during a peer review cycle.

Most members seem one day to be in total agreement that education is BS

Jorr dear friend, most members would agree that education systems as they exist today are BS. There is a difference.

"We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or (new age gurus), then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is ****-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world."
— Terence McKenna

And this is why it is is a difficult path, because the iconography pervades not only the old reality, but is also present in the new reality. Leave the gurus to their thoughts and concentrate on yourself.

[Maria Stade]

Posted by Tenzin (here)

Posted by Maria Stade (here)
He is One of many messangers !

Who are the rest?? Would like to hear them out too!

In the end we all are !

When the center of self has been found !

Some of the messengers are using drogs to find answers and what they get is just peak moments and not the real thing !

But we all have our own jurny and there is a message in us all.

Namaste

[CyRus]

Posted by greybeard (here)
This may be off topic but is this man saying similar to Nassim or not?
Opinions appreciated

Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uFhlPdZ15Cs

Hmm, he definitely seems more honest than Haramein. I looked at his webpage and tried to find links to his writings (and hopefully equations, since he calls it the Physics of Consciousness) but the links were all broken.
The crux of the matter is, if you call what you do physics, you better have equations (and or experiments) to prove your point. Otherwise, the title of physics is misleading. If he for instance called it "The Scientific Philosophy of Consciousness" I would not object if he didn't provide a mathematical framework.

As I am unable to find anything more than this interview, I have nothing to base my evaluation on, and remain undecided.

[jorr lundstrom]

Posted by Icecold (here)

He's an interesting fellow I'd enjoy having a dinner conversation with, but rationally, some of his claims do seem a bit lofty. I feel the Universe is far too grand for our small, human brains to comprehend. Far too intricate and timeless.

Agreed.

BTW Paul is exactly correct regarding the AIP conference proceedings. Anyone can submit a paper to a conference and talk about it. Peer review has nothing to do with it. Peer review is a generic term for a process of self-regulation by a profession or a process of evaluation involving qualified individuals within the relevant field. It usually is an extended process of submission and negotiation. He has not done this. This thread is a form of layman review and reflects what would happen during a peer review cycle.

Most members seem one day to be in total agreement that education is BS

Jorr dear friend, most members would agree that education systems as they exist today are BS. There is a difference.

"We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or (new age gurus), then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is ****-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world."
— Terence McKenna

Ok, get it. I think it means that the system is BS but the education is correct. And those

who has the correct education speaks the truth. Maybye exept if you work for NASA,

Big Pharma, the Health system, the Government, the Militaries, TV companies the

Oil idustries, Nuclear Powerplants and so on....................................................

[eaglespirit]

WOW!!!

"Growing" UP, UP, UP ...ALL in One Thread!!! Science and Spirituality ARE the SAME Energy...and WE ARE that Fruition!!!
The only "nonsense" is our own brainwashed NON-sense of higher rhythms that We ARE Now Sensing and taking "command" of!!!
Kudos Nassim...Kudos Avalon!





Command of the Eagle

When the warrior becomes fully aligned to the Dreamer they have the Command of the Eagle at their hand. Toltecs call the Creator of the Nagual (all that is), the Eagle. When a warrior has the Command of the Eagle at their hand they have the power of the Intent of all creation.

When we are fully aligned to the Dreamer, the Dreamer’s will and our will are one. We have free will but it is the will of the Dreamer. For those new to Toltec lore, the Dreamer is the entity that dreams our particular lifetime. We are the dreamed, dreamed by the Dreamer, our life is the dream.

We begin aligning to the Dreamer when we embark on the Mastery of Intent.

[Icecold]

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)

Posted by Icecold (here)

He's an interesting fellow I'd enjoy having a dinner conversation with, but rationally, some of his claims do seem a bit lofty. I feel the Universe is far too grand for our small, human brains to comprehend. Far too intricate and timeless.

Agreed.

BTW Paul is exactly correct regarding the AIP conference proceedings. Anyone can submit a paper to a conference and talk about it. Peer review has nothing to do with it. Peer review is a generic term for a process of self-regulation by a profession or a process of evaluation involving qualified individuals within the relevant field. It usually is an extended process of submission and negotiation. He has not done this. This thread is a form of layman review and reflects what would happen during a peer review cycle.

Most members seem one day to be in total agreement that education is BS

Jorr dear friend, most members would agree that education systems as they exist today are BS. There is a difference.

"We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or (new age gurus), then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is ****-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world."
— Terence McKenna

Ok, get it. I think it means that the system is BS but the education is correct. And those

who has the correct education speaks the truth. Maybye exept if you work for NASA,

Big Pharma, the Health system, the Government, the Militaries, TV companies the

Oil idustries, Nuclear Powerplants and so on....................................................

Well, that is not what I meant.

Sorry if you read it that way.

What it means is that gurus who chant an alternative mantra may also be in error. Truth does not always lay in opposition to lies. Mantra is mantra. Different language, does not mean truth, just different thoughts.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Chris
This may be off topic but is this man saying similar to Nassim or not?
Opinions appreciated

I can't understand the audio very well (bad ears), but I found a brief summary of what seems to be the same interview at Other Spiritual Pieces: Energy is Everything and so Energy = God. See also his website, such as Science of the Supernatural.

David Ash is saying something quite different (from my perspective.)

He seems to be working as an honest, inspired, amateur physicist. He is not developing the detailed mathematical models which can be rigorously tested to many decimal places of accuracy (nor is he claiming to.) But he is elaborating an interesting model, as a blend between metaphor, science and the spiritual.

My initial reactions to David Ash are far more positive than to Nassim. It's not "hard" physics (with laboratory equipment and difficult mathematics.) But it does feel like honest, inspired, insight.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by CyRus (here)
Hmm, he definitely seems more honest than Haramein. I looked at his webpage and tried to find links to his writings (and hopefully equations, since he calls it the Physics of Consciousness) but the links were all broken

Not all the links are broken (on his http://davidash.info/20090801/pages/...ernatural.html page.) The first one works, to the paper Article 1: The Vortex Key to Mass (pdf). It's thin - not physics as you would call it.

I agree with your appraisal of David Ash (as you can see from the post I made after your first reply to Chris, but before I had read your reply.)

[CyRus]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by CyRus (here)
Hmm, he definitely seems more honest than Haramein. I looked at his webpage and tried to find links to his writings (and hopefully equations, since he calls it the Physics of Consciousness) but the links were all broken

Not all the links are broken (on his http://davidash.info/20090801/pages/...ernatural.html page.) The first one works, to the paper Article 1: The Vortex Key to Mass (pdf). It's thin - not physics as you would call it.

I agree with your appraisal of David Ash (as you can see from the post I made after your first reply to Chris, but before I had read your reply.)

Thank you very much for this, funny how I missed that link.
Having read this, I have altered my opinion slightly. Comparing this with the Schwarzchild proton I would have to say this is more well written. It also references previous theorists, which Haramein virtually neglected.
He definitely seems more genuine than Haramein, that is for certain.

[eaglespirit]

What it means is that gurus who chant an alternative mantra may also be in error. Truth does not always lay in opposition to lies. Mantra is mantra. Different language, does not mean truth, just different thoughts.

Can't get away from this this morning...
Each One of Us ARE the Gurus...and it is ALL the Same!!!
Spirituality and Science ARE the Same Thing...SAME Vibration!
That is all WE have to learn, each in our own way...imho!!!
And ACT on this new(old) knowledge in every single thing We Do!
And UPGRADE This Life, Right Now!!!
May sound like "babble" to some because it sounds too simple...
3d brainwashing "babbles" Higher Energy WE Create
that are bringing Science and Spirituality into ONE Full Rhythm!!!

[jorr lundstrom]

Posted by Icecold (here)

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)

Posted by Icecold (here)

He's an interesting fellow I'd enjoy having a dinner conversation with, but rationally, some of his claims do seem a bit lofty. I feel the Universe is far too grand for our small, human brains to comprehend. Far too intricate and timeless.

Agreed.

BTW Paul is exactly correct regarding the AIP conference proceedings. Anyone can submit a paper to a conference and talk about it. Peer review has nothing to do with it. Peer review is a generic term for a process of self-regulation by a profession or a process of evaluation involving qualified individuals within the relevant field. It usually is an extended process of submission and negotiation. He has not done this. This thread is a form of layman review and reflects what would happen during a peer review cycle.

Most members seem one day to be in total agreement that education is BS

Jorr dear friend, most members would agree that education systems as they exist today are BS. There is a difference.

"We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or (new age gurus), then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is ****-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world."
— Terence McKenna

Ok, get it. I think it means that the system is BS but the education is correct. And those

who has the correct education speaks the truth. Maybye exept if you work for NASA,

Big Pharma, the Health system, the Government, the Militaries, TV companies the

Oil idustries, Nuclear Powerplants and so on....................................................

Well, that is not what I meant.

Sorry if you read it that way.

What it means is that gurus who chant an alternative mantra may also be in error. Truth does not always lay in opposition to lies. Mantra is mantra. Different language, does not mean truth, just different thoughts.

Ice dear. I know you didnt meant wot I wrote. Im just playing around a little.

Im convinced that we are on the same side of the desk. Im just a little tired

of the use of the word "TRUTH". Its used vividly, but nobody defines wot they

mean by it and never who´s truth they are speaking about.

If there is an unpersonal, objective "TRUTH" at all, which I doubt, I think its

gotta be defind in other ways than just "Everything the government denies".

As I consider myself to be free, I wonder wot "TRUTH" will set me free or if

there is anything like more free than free.

[Icecold]

Ice dear. I know you didnt meant wot I wrote. Im just playing around a little.

Im convinced that we are on the same side of the desk. Im just a little tired

of the use of the word "TRUTH". Its used vividly, but nobody defines wot they

mean by it and never who´s truth they are speaking about.

If there is an unpersonal, objective "TRUTH" at all, which I doubt, I think its

gotta be defind in other ways than just "Everything the government denies".

As I consider myself to be free, I wonder wot "TRUTH" will set me free or if

there is anything like more free than free.

LOL. Agreed.

I say again.....

And this is why it is is a difficult path, because the iconography pervades not only the old reality, but is also present in the new reality. Leave the gurus to their thoughts and concentrate on yourself.

[Dale]

Posted by K626 (here)

Posted by Dale (here)
I took a moment to view a presentation by Mr. Haramein. From my perspective, he is neither fraud nor sage. He seems to be a man earnestly attempting to make sense of a vast, vast world.

With regard to his idea of the Universe being similar to a fractal system, his reasoning is astute. However, his opinions and theories concerning the Big Bang theory are less thorough.

He's an interesting fellow I'd enjoy having a dinner conversation with, but rationally, some of his claims do seem a bit lofty. I feel the Universe is far too grand for our small, human brains to comprehend. Far too intricate and timeless.

Not really as it wouldn't exist without us observing it.

K

Most certainly. The world of quantum physics describes a ghostly interaction between the observer and the observed. However, just as we observe the world around us, the bluebird perched on the window ledge is doing much the same. As are the earthworms buried in the ground, and the cells that make up their bodies. All strings of consciousness are perceiving this vast Universe of energy, however limited, or unlimited, their perspectives may be. I do not feel we are at a point in which we can understand the mechanisms as to how this Universe operates, though we may be developing an idea as to its functions.

[Icecold]

I do not feel we are at a point in which we can understand the mechanisms as to how this Universe operates

It is a difficult thing to convince the human ego that this is a true statement.

I used to use the analogy of a sheep or cow trying to learn quantum mechanics. It becomes a problem of capacity of thought.

It may be the case that a particularly intelligent sheep thinks it knows how the universe works and is utterly convinced that it is in truth.


Albert (named after Einstein)

.