United People Action Ideas

[dukes4monny]

An excellent video, thanks. The link didn't work, but I found it on Youtube here.
Catherine Austin Fitts obviously has a deep understanding of how the crooks in charge have got us to this current position, and I'd suggest that everybody watches this film.
Her analogy of the 'Tapeworm Economy' is inspired.

The local economy idea is definitely a good one. To kind of distil it down to help me fully understand it: we would keep using the existing currency, and essentially create a 'Local Community Banking System' that would be locally funded and would be used for investments within the local community to benefit the local community, is that correct?

I can see that this would indeed have the effect of 'starving the beast' of funds and also help to rebuild local communities so that they can become more independent of national government and hopefully interdependent with other local communities.

I haven't analysed it yet, but does this idea fit in with the existing 'United People Declaration'?

[panopticon]

G'day Revere,

I think you may find the work of economist Bernard Lietaer of use. In particular I am thinking of his work on complimentary currencies in The Future of Money.
The LETS are common in Australia as are farm co-operatives.

You may also find of use the Permaculture movements work on community design and what the co-originator of the concept David Holmgren refers to as Retrofitting The Suburbs.
This information should all be covered in a Permaculture Design Course and most countries have an authorised provider: Community development, food sustainability, site retrofitting, alternative economic models (including Mondrogon worker co-ops and Kibbutz co-ops) not to mention a whole mess of really interesting natural theory like animal incorporation or designing to increase 'edge' and from that harvest size.

A fully developed complimentary currency program for community size projects is Cyclos.

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[Revere]

Duke

The local economy idea is definitely a good one. To kind of distil it down to help me fully understand it: we would keep using the existing currency, and essentially create a 'Local Community Banking System' that would be locally funded and would be used for investments within the local community to benefit the local community, is that correct?

I can see that this would indeed have the effect of 'starving the beast' of funds and also help to rebuild local communities so that they can become more independent of national government and hopefully interdependent with other local communities.

Duke

I believe that this meshes in very well with the United People. This is a great idea that she has and can over time reinvigorate local communities, reduce some of the PTB hand in our pockets, and begin showing the masses that we can wrestle back some control. Small success can be a catalyst for bigger changes that we can leverage with human consciousness.

Really, how do we unplug from the PTB hierarchical society? I believe one step at a time working to roll their control backwards? I think humanities conscious awareness has already put them a bit on the defensive. So, let's push more with direct steps that can begin with the avoidance of the top down economic structures. This is just a place to start as we strive to flatten out our economy and our society. Fitts uses a banking example which is great but, we can start with avoiding patronage of any multinational conglomerate company. Learn who provides what in your economy and support local goods and service providers only. (Does anyone else besides me think that this was possibly what Charles may have had on his mind as well?)

Yes, these are just a baby steps but, they are possible to accomplish in varying degrees by everyone starting now! It's a start and it is action. Flattening our society on a local basis creates and strengthens the cooperation of individuals at a grass roots level. We cannot jump twenty steps ahead with no recognized currency or some enlightened economic and social structures and create a fantastical utopian society. To make such a jump out of our current society, infrastructures and culture would have to be prompted by a disaster natural or manmade and then decades of recovery. No one wants that to happen. The truth as we discussed is that humanity needs to change dramatically on the inside and that process normally takes time. Perhaps this path will help with time and the growing individual awakening that many of us now see. Plus, the PTB will be making their own moves and a strengthened local community will be better enabled to push back.

Peace,
-R-

[Revere]

Panopticon

G'day Revere,

I think you may find the work of economist Bernard Lietaer of use. In particular I am thinking of his work on complimentary currencies in The Future of Money.
The LETS are common in Australia as are farm co-operatives.

You may also find of use the Permaculture movements work on community design and what the co-originator of the concept David Holmgren refers to as Retrofitting The Suburbs

.Thanks as time permits I will take a look. So, it looks like you have some ideas. If possible please share them with us concerning an action item a United People can take besides debate and proclamations, as we are so good at those to date. LOL

Peace,
-R-

[Revere]

Panopticon,

Actually alternative currency is already being use in some areas of the US... Google Berkshires currency. It is used mostly out of fear of the dollars debt and potential loss as the worlds "reserve" currency. Maybe it is a good idea, I do not know if it is at this point and time.

Peace,
-R-

[panopticon]

Posted by Revere (here)
Thanks as time permits I will take a look. So, it looks like you have some ideas. If possible please share them with us concerning an action item a United People can take besides debate and proclamations, as we are so good at those to date. LOL

G'day Revere,
The ideas are not mine. I am a permaculturist and the permaculture movement has had extensive debates (since the 1980's) on this subject.
The work of David Holmgren, in particular his 2002 text 'Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability', presents a valuable asset for any redesign of society.
The extensive 1988 tome 'Permaculture: A Designer's Manual' by Bill Mollison (the most recognised face of the Permaculture movement) also includes many practical ideas.

I am not trying to 'proclaim'. I have limited time available and your choice of words infer more meaning on my actions than occurred.
I was merely pointing out that a similar discussion within the Permaculture movement is an ongoing one that was started over 30 years ago. I thought some valuable points could be gathered from this previously extensive discursive process and its results.

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[panopticon]

Posted by Revere (here)
Actually alternative currency is already being use in some areas of the US... Google Berkshires currency. It is used mostly out of fear of the dollars debt and potential loss as the worlds "reserve" currency.

G'day Revere,

I agree completely with your statement.
I have stated previously within this forum that the only use, in my opinion, for a complimentary currency is as a transitional technique.
People are used to not trusting each other. This is part of the socialisation process (sometimes referred to as 'conditioning') and assists in the continuation and development of panopticism. The lack of trust developed, to some extent, as a result of the industrial revolution and a movement from gemeinschaft to gesellschaft. This lack of trust within modern westernised societies is the basis of the socio-political interpretation of the mathematical ideas posited by John Nash through his application of 'game theory' as it pertained to cold war society. This is covered quite well by Adam Curtis in his 2007 BBC documentary series 'The Trap' episode 1 'F@ck You Buddy' (google video of episode below the open archive link is for the full series downloadable version).


[GOOGLE]404227395387111085[/GOOGLE]


I hope this has been of assistance.
Lunch time has ended so back to my cell.

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[dukes4monny]

This short video has reminded me of the fact that we need to find a way of getting the masses to actually see that there is a problem:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rTMwVa3W-NA

It really does put some perspective on how absurd the current system actually is.

Posted by panopticon (here)
People are used to not trusting each other.

This statement nails the problem, but what is the solution?
Most of us do still live in a Panopticon, and those that venture outside are labelled as 'off the rails'.......so who is going to listen to them?

To work out whether you are 'inside' or 'outside' of the prison, take a look at the following image:



Do you see a Policeman?

or

Do you see some Human Beings?

The real task that we face is to get everyone to see the Human beings.

[Revere]

Panopticom

I am not trying to 'proclaim'. I have limited time available and your choice of words infer more meaning on my actions than occurred.
I was merely pointing out that a similar discussion within the Permaculture movement is an ongoing one that was started over 30 years ago. I thought some valuable points could be gathered from this previously extensive discursive process and its results

.

Yes...I was pushing. Sorry. I am just trying to get as many ideas out to keep this Thread alive. Sad, but it is basically the three of us right now. Avalon is a great resource, intellectually stimulating debating society, but not a much of a organized difference maker IMHO. So be it. I hope I have missed something along the way. But, it still has significant value and our little exercise has value as well. All great efforts often start small. Thanks for contributing.

Peace,
-R-

[panopticon]

G'day dukes4monny,

You make excellent points and I agree that the hardest thing is to see beyond the 'conditioning'.
The reason I am pedantic about word use and power dynamics in conversation is because it is part of the process that 'conditions' and controls.

Posted by dukes4monny (here)
Most of us do still live in a Panopticon, and those that venture outside are labelled as 'off the rails'.......so who is going to listen to them?

I feel the ability to remove the self regulation, that is the key to Foucault's use of the Panopticon in 'Discipline and Punish' as I understand it, is the hardest part.
It is not that we are being watched, it is not even that we watch ourselves (self regulation) in my view it is the fact that there is no need for there to be 'prison guards' that is important.
To look and analyse our own actions, power dynamics and conversational approach may also be part of the solution.
Maybe using a deconstructionist perspective and then reviewing actions accordingly might help at the individual level (though using deconstruction can be a problem in itself).
I'm almost certain however that this will not work as an en masse technique as most people think in dualities based on artificial constructs.

Posted by dukes4monny (here)
Do you see a Policeman?
or
Do you see some Human Beings?
The real task that we face is to get everyone to see the Human beings.

Oddly enough I saw the people in the back of the photo to the right and was trying to work out what they were looking at!
I saw the police officer in front after I was following their gaze (I initially thought he was a traffic warden).

Thanks for the positive dynamic.
I really enjoyed the youtube video. Nice and simple to understand video on how representative democracy and the concept of liberty can work as a controlling mechanism.

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[panopticon]

Posted by Revere (here)
Yes...I was pushing. Sorry. I am just trying to get as many ideas out to keep this Thread alive. Sad, but it is basically the three of us right now. Avalon is a great resource, intellectually stimulating debating society, but not a much of a organized difference maker IMHO. So be it. I hope I have missed something along the way. But, it still has significant value and our little exercise has value as well. All great efforts often start small. Thanks for contributing.

G'day Revere,

Thank you for the response.
I was not offended and made mention of it so as to clarify my position.
Frequently a misunderstanding can result from mistyped words, spelling differences (English vs US English) and lack of communication.

Though the number of participants is low I think that the conversation is valuable and positive.

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[cjhepburn]

I've been reading your posts and agree there is definitely a problem and the key is to get people to unite. I don't think that would be such an issue if there was a way to alleviate the fear. Folks have forgotten that they are free and in control. Their lives are riddled with fear of losing what they have, becoming homeless and watching their children go hungry. Sadly, that's going to happen whether we do anything or not and personally, if I'm going to lose it all, I'd rather do so on my terms and moving to make good changes.

This country has a good foundation and, as I see it, we need to go backwards and look at the mistakes and see what can be changed. IRS is an example of one of those mistakes and it's time to say, it's not working and good bye. Now they are obviously not going to close up shop voluntarily so folks have to get tough and stop buying into a failed system. Same goes with banks and even the post office, any way the government has of controlling us, snooping on us needs to be dropped. It's going to hurt and we are going to suffer in many ways but it will mean a better future with new directions.

I would also like to note that being calm and organized is great and when I start to lose it, I have a 24 hr rule. Don't act or speak until you've given it 24 hrs. Having said that, I also feel that this country was built on the passion of men who were from diverse backgrounds and agreed on nothing, and that's what makes it so great. From those heated disagreements came many wonderful ideas that made it possible for us to be talking today, openly. We should be careful about muffling that spirit. Everyone has a voice in this country, however nutty it might get at times, and out of love for that freedom we will often need to listen to upset folks and address their issues.

Hope I'm not being too much of a girl about this and over simplifying. I know it's not simple and however limited my understanding, I would like to be a part of the solution.

[panopticon]

G'day cjhepburn,

You make some excellent points and simplifying down to "nuts and bolts" I personally view as being one of the most important things that anyone can do (that is the essence of deconstruction).
I am not from the United States and while I have some knowledge as to your financial system (it's a fiat based fractional reserve system) I do not pretend to understand the intricacies of your political system (how did Bush win in 2004?). Nor why a private corporation handles your currency creation! Totally bizarre.
Many US citizens I have met are pleasant and intelligent. Just talk a bit strange that's all.

I also agree that there is, and always has been, a large problem in trying to balance passion with reasoned thought.
I would never want passion to be discarded. Rather awareness increased.
Look at Freud's nephew Edward Bernays and his 'Torches of Freedom' campaign. Though the idea was only introduced and no-one forced women to smoke. It could be argued that the psychological manipulation used gave little chance of many women doing anything else.

[GOOGLE]6718420906413643126[/GOOGLE]

I'm not sure that "It's going to hurt and we are going to suffer in many ways" is necessarily true.
I am more of an optimist than that. Not in regards to control mechanism, but that people help people more often than not.
In the Victorian Bushfires there were reports of strangers pulling up asking if anyone needed any help. The one that still brings a tear to my eye is the fella who gave his boots to a bloke who didn't have any. Simple and immediate answer to a need. He gave up his blundstones. Now that's selfless behaviour!
The recent Queensland floods also bought out the best in humanity.
The New Zealand Christchurch earth quake same again.

These stories of true 'mateship', as we call it down south, are not from just here.
They are found in Chile, Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti, North America, Europe, Africa and all over Asia.

Don't forget the valour and comradery of the Japanese workers who selflessly did (and still are doing) their all at the Fukushima Nuclear Plant. The Japanese who were effected by the tsunami have undergone great hardships and are pulling together in 'Community'.
I view this all reinforces the qualities of what I see as the innate human spirit and potential.

Enough of my pompous prognosticating.
I'm sure there are other valid opinions and perspectives here that need to be voiced.
I apologise for the length and regularity of my postings.

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

Part 1: http://www.archive.org/details/AdaCu...uryoftheSelf_0
Part 2: http://www.archive.org/details/AdamC...heSelfPart2of4
Part 3: http://www.archive.org/details/AdamC...heSelfPart3of4
Part 4: http://www.archive.org/details/AdamC...SelfPart4of4_0

[dukes4monny]

Posted by cjhepburn (here)
I don't think that would be such an issue if there was a way to alleviate the fear. Folks have forgotten that they are free and in control. Their lives are riddled with fear of losing what they have, becoming homeless and watching their children go hungry.

Thank you for getting involved. You make several very good points, and as you say fear is what is holding most people back, fear maintains the status quo.
I think it was J. Krishnamurti who said "Fear is a movement from certainty to uncertainty". We all like to think that we have a certain status in society and we have precious patterns of belief or understanding, and we don't want to give these up. If we advocate change then this brings uncertainty = fear.
At the very root of this is the irrational fear of death. This fear is drummed into us in religion and films / books etc.
Nobody can tell you how to deal with fear, you simply have to face it, and when you really do that it does melt away.

This does touch on my earlier point about looking at the image and seeing a Policeman or seeing humans. The uniform that the policeman is wearing is designed to make us anxious, which is a form of fear. What I see is a human being who is wearing some fancy dress, but he too lives in fear, so I actually feel empathy instead of fear.

What I would also like to inject into this debate, more for those that haven't read 'Ascent of Humanity' is the idea that we don't allow ourselves to play. Children nowadays are brought into the education system at increasingly younger ages. A (deliberate?) side effect of this is that they are prevented from playing, and play is where the seed for our imagination is sown and nurtured. When we complete our march through the education system, we are given a label: doctor - engineer - builder - professor, and there is no time for play.
I believe that we are here to play, and I sure as hell want my playtime back.

You can see this happened to a certain extent in the 60's. People (temporarily) lost their fear of the establishment, they stopped working, and just played........
Back to the 60's anyone?

[cjhepburn]

I live in the USA and I'm not 100% sure how anyone gets elected now days and I'm guessing I'm not the only one, which is one reason we need to make changes. Where to start?

How do we reach mass numbers of people and let them know they needn't be afraid. Again maybe I'm over simplifying but you get a large mass of folks to do one thing together with some degree of success so they can see it's possible. They will be more willing to try again and take it to the next level.

I quess we could give Facebook and Twitter a whole new purpose.... :-)

[skippy]

Posted by Revere (here)
Yes...I was pushing. Sorry. I am just trying to get as many ideas out to keep this Thread alive. Sad, but it is basically the three of us right now. Avalon is a great resource, intellectually stimulating debating society, but not a much of a organized difference maker IMHO. So be it.

What about organizing a conference in 2012 and invite them all!

[dukes4monny]

Posted by cjhepburn (here)
I live in the USA and I'm not 100% sure how anyone gets elected now days and I'm guessing I'm not the only one, which is one reason we need to make changes. Where to start?

How do we reach mass numbers of people and let them know they needn't be afraid. Again maybe I'm over simplifying but you get a large mass of folks to do one thing together with some degree of success so they can see it's possible. They will be more willing to try again and take it to the next level.

I quess we could give Facebook and Twitter a whole new purpose.... :-)

Jesse Ventura seems to be getting very vocal:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=k7EcR1Nq0W0

I must admit that I am really not sure about this guy. He seems just 'too good to be true'......he's worked on the inside too. What do you guys in the US think of him?

[Revere]

Dukes

I must admit that I am really not sure about this guy. He seems just 'too good to be true'......he's worked on the inside too. What do you guys in the US think of him?

The more I know about him the more I like him. I think he is the real deal. He has always been a free spirit from Championship fo-Wrestling to Governor of Minnesota and he has had some pretty interesting dust ups with the Government. Keep an eye on him he is getting in to it all deeper and deeper. His TV series “Conspiracy Theory” has been great. He did a show on the FEMA Concentration camps being built here. The network he broadcasts on is reported to have been completely intimidated by the US government over the show. True TV chickened out and choose not to re-broadcast it at the last minute. I saw the first broadcast and told people to watch it. It was scheduled and everything but another show was played.

Peace,
-R-

[Revere]

I live in the USA and I'm not 100% sure how anyone gets elected now days and I'm guessing I'm not the only one, which is one reason we need to make changes. Where to start?

It's funny you say that just before the Jesse reference. Jesse Ventura tells a story about being elected. It goes that the night he was elected governor that a bunch of 3 Letter agency guys showed up put him in a room and demanded to know how he won the election in very unfriendly terms. Ooops, he guesses someone messed up because he was obviously not the one they expected to win!

Peace,

-R-

[Revere]

Skippy

What about organizing a conference in 2012 and invite them all!

Not a bad idea! It needs to go very public very quickly or the organizers may end up with a bullseye on their backs. Yes, the old fear thing jumps up again (queue the Twilight Zone theme music here). LOL... Skippy are you Intuitive? Seriously, I mean it. I once owned an interest in a small Show Promotion company. We did Food shows and Golf shows. I quickly got my fill of celebrities and business partner. Sold off my interest. It was my first attempt to get out of the enterprise IT industry. But, I know how to do it.

Strange very Strange.

Peace,
-R-