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Thread: Integrity

  1. Link to Post #101
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Peacelovinman (here)
    However, it feels like the situation desperately needs some closure in terms of a statement from you. Is there more information to be released?
    I have no more information of any kind. I've not heard from Charles for 6 weeks. As far as I'm aware, he's setting up his own website (which was always the best thing for him to do, and I always fully supported that) - and I've heard nothing to the contrary. I'm waiting for that just as everyone else is.

    I think his information was important, and I did all I reasonably could to bring it to the full attention of Avalonians and others. There's still a huge amount of reported data on the forum which has not yet been fully synthesized, and I believe that is going to be done on his new site. But I do not even know the domain name, and I know nothing about the '18' (I was never in that loop). Re the proposed audio interview, he changed his mind about that, and it was never done. This is all I know.

    Please note: this is not a Charles thread (there are at least 101 of those already). Please post comments about that material on one of those! Not here. Thanks.

    Quote Posted by Peacelovinman (here)
    Do you think it would help, Bill, to re-define the purpose of Avalon, as you see it? Is it to usher in positive changes to a world that surely needs change?
    That's exactly its purpose. No need for any re-definition.

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  3. Link to Post #102
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote The criterion we use with all members, no matter how longstanding, is that if we had known [ --- insert something new that emerges about this person here --- ] when we'd welcomed them in the first place, we would not have accepted their application, then we may ask them to leave.

    Clearly their membership was a mistake - on our part. Remember: this is not a public place. It's a private, invitation-only forum. This is what guarantees and safeguards its very high quality.
    When I read this Bill I immediately look around to see who is missing.
    I gather from your comments that the missing members have been removed for comments made on other forums?
    I agree that change is constant and generally positive, people come and go in our lives and if we are open we learn from every contact.

    However I find that I am uncomfortable and sad when people are permanently removed against their will.
    I have never thrown anyone out of my house.
    Last edited by TigerLilly; 22nd April 2011 at 16:05.

  4. Link to Post #103
    Ireland Avalon Member finally there!!!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    hi all
    what a great thread bill thanks for starting it!!!
    http://youtu.be/I-2i2SR_OsU
    i just happened to be listening to this song while reading everyone's inputs.
    which are all great i love to see healthy conversation.its good to talk not argue..

    anyways love and respect to all

  5. Link to Post #104
    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by TigerLilly (here)
    Quote The criterion we use with all members, no matter how longstanding, is that if we had known [ --- insert something new that emerges about this person here --- ] when we'd welcomed them in the first place, we would not have accepted their application, then we may ask them to leave.

    Clearly their membership was a mistake - on our part. Remember: this is not a public place. It's a private, invitation-only forum. This is what guarantees and safeguards its very high quality.
    When I read this Bill I immediately look around to see who is missing.
    I gather from your comments that the missing members have been removed for comments made on other forums?
    I agree that change is constant and generally positive, people come and go in our lives and if we are open we learn from every contact.

    However I find that I am uncomfortable and sad when people are permanently removed against their will.
    I have never thrown anyone out of my house.
    There are quite a bit more new members recently than retired members. I think it would be decent at this point of you would consider that anyone who has left Avalon, ULTIMATELY has done so by their own decision or action. There have been times in my life where i had to ask folks to leave based on their behavior, indeed. The Avalon community is a step above the others, and Bill always brings 'the goods'. It is about INTEGRITY.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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  7. Link to Post #105
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Dear Bill,
    I look forward to further dialogue.

    Pie'n'eal

  8. Link to Post #106
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    Default Re: Integrity

    My thoughts on this concur with Bills opening definition of integrity. I think that the principle of integrity us fundamental to open, positive flow of understanding and intent, and believe that this flow ultimately comes from our true self, rather than from the physical. I also believe that in connecting with and being accepting of our higher selves, integrity is a natural corollary. Being true to oneself, in service of others I think is where I see integrity being of particular value.

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Thanks for inviting me in your house Bill. You are welcome in mine! Respect is key. If a person respects me, then I will give them the utmost respect in return. So I understand if you have to kick a few people out of your house from time to time. It doesn't mean you don't care about that person. It just means that they are not respecting what your are trying to do and sometimes you just have to let that person go. That is with all aspects of life. Some relationships come to an end and you have to say good bye to that person and "love them from afar" Wish them well in their journeys and keep moving down your path. There may be a divide in how people feel about it, but I guess that is just human nature. We will never agree on everrything, but it seems like the majority of folks here at Avalon are very respectful and open minded to all opinions. Keep up the good work!

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  11. Link to Post #108
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Anyone is free and welcome to say anything they want to anywhere on the internet - but not here.

    In Sepia's words, this is my house, and you are all guests, and I value and honor everyone here as long as your integrity is in. If it is breached, I will ask you to leave, and I will make that call myself.
    Project Avalon has become much more than just "Bill's house". It's a community. Of course Bill still wants to guide it, discipline it, teach it, help it grow and mature, just as any good parent does with any child. But to what end? Is the objective to produce an independent, autonomous, self-regulating community that can flourish on its own? Or is it to create a dependent, servile, externally regulated "pet" that exists for the pleasure of its owner?

    Bill would like members of Avalon to demonstrate a certain degree of integrity, respect, and civility. I strongly suspect most of Avalon would agree with that sentiment. The problem is how to determine what the required standards are, when they have been violated, and how to constructively deal with those individuals that fail to meet the standards.

    So far, all of those decisions have been made by Bill. If the objective for Avalon is to become a self-regulating community, we will at some point have to devise a method of making those decisions without Bill's help.

    Perhaps it is more appropriate to ask Bill what his objective is for the Project Avalon community. He may have other objectives in mind.

    The observation of increasing "separation" may simply be a convenient justification for the culling of "misbehaving" Avalon members. Avalon, like humanity, needs to unite, not separate. Trying to accommodate all voices while not silencing any is a challenge, to be sure. Splintering into like-minded groups is what humanity has always done, to its eternal detriment. Uniting into a single broad-minded group would appear to be the next step of our evolution. Avalon is well along the path to achieving that. Can we do it?

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  13. Link to Post #109
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    There are quite a bit more new members recently than retired members.
    Yes. Several hundred new members in the last few weeks from twice that number who've applied, and literally a small handful of people we've asked to leave (or who have done so voluntarily). Read the Welcome New Members thread - where all new members post. It's instructive!

    Quote Posted by Nyce555 (here)
    I understand if you have to kick a few people out of your house from time to time. It doesn't mean you don't care about that person. It just means that they are not respecting what your are trying to do and sometimes you just have to let that person go.

    That is with all aspects of life. Some relationships come to an end and you have to say good bye to that person and "love them from afar" Wish them well in their journeys and keep moving down your path.
    Thanks - I couldn't possibly have put that better myself.

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Bill would like members of Avalon to demonstrate a certain degree of integrity, respect, and civility. I strongly suspect most of Avalon would agree with that sentiment. The problem is how to determine what the required standards are, when they have been violated, and how to constructively deal with those individuals that fail to meet the standards.

    So far, all of those decisions have been made by Bill. If the objective for Avalon is to become a self-regulating community, we will at some point have to devise a method of making those decisions without Bill's help.
    Not all decisions have been made by me at all. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. The moderators PM and e-mail members frequently, and there's a great deal of routine 'walking the beat' activity like that which I don't have time to get involved in. We usually try everything we can before we ask someone to leave. You might be astonished at our patience.

    When I made the call on several members who we recently unsubscribed, for example, there was a collective massive sigh of relief among the moderators. This is not meant to be unkind - it's simply true. We are united in our views on just about everything.

    Our goal is to make this a pleasant, enjoyable, inspiring, informative, educational, fascinating, mutually supportive and uplifting place to be. If some members do not have those goals, then this is not the forum for them to hang out in.

    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    anyone who has left Avalon, ULTIMATELY has done so by their own decision or action.
    Amen to that. This is completely true.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 22nd April 2011 at 16:55.

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Icecold made some interesting points. i would also like to point out though that for every sycophant here there is also a member who see's it as his/her duty to overtly or covertly undermine every post Bill makes, even those that are not controversial. they are so determined not be seen as sycophants that they completely overcompensate, whether knowingly or unknowingly. or they have some other agenda. many will call this "challenging" Bill. i call this obnoxious trolling. you're certainly right when you say integrity is not associated with sycophants. i think you would agree that it is not associated with trolls or spoilers either. healthy dissent is fine, but unhealthy dissent is destructive. those that perpetuate it must go.

    i feel i should also point out that Bill has endured heaps of unhealthy dissent from some members for some time, AND THEY HAVE REMAINED MEMBERS. i think the patience he has demonstrated is commendable.

    this will likely be seen as a sycophantic post by some, but i don't care. what do i really have to gain from it??? a "thank you" from Bill? a nice gesture, but hardly life altering. as has been pointed out several times, this is Bill's house, his party if you will. would you show up at a party and make yourself at home of a host whose integrity you seriously questioned? would you drink his beer if you doubted his intentions? would you eat his food if you felt he was deliberately misleading, or had serious character flaws? the answer is: only if you're an a##hole. and there are a##holes on every forum, and they need to be purged.

    i can't speak for Bill, but i believe his post was partially due to comments made by various Avalon members on the Nexus forum. i hadn't seen these comments until yesterday, but i was surprised. there are certainly some Benedict Arnolds out there, some Bill bashers who shamelessly slip into his party and "eat his food" and "drink his beer". and no, i'm not speaking of all members who participate in both forums, and i'm not badmouthing Nexus here. but i find the comments of some(i won't out them-they've already outed themselves) quite pathetic.

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  17. Link to Post #111
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    Default Re: Integrity

    --------

    As this thread has evolved, I think the most important part may be what I was suggesting on my post #63 about how come some old, trusted friends cannot understand each other any more, and new alliances are being formed - and the step-back-and-take-a-deep-look at what might really be happening here. It was fascinating to me that this struck a chord in so many people.

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post202359

    I do think that if we want to surf on the huge wave of all the changes that we'll surely experience the next few years (and are not either wiped out by it or furiously paddling along behind trying to catch up) - this perspective might be valuable.

    One additionally stated purpose of Avalon might simply be this: to support everyone who feels called to be a constructive part of that change.

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  19. Link to Post #112
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    Default Re: Integrity

    I second this!! Great thread!!
    Much Love to us all!!

    Happy Earth Day!!

    Quote Posted by Nyce555 (here)
    Thanks for inviting me in your house Bill. You are welcome in mine! Respect is key. If a person respects me, then I will give them the utmost respect in return. So I understand if you have to kick a few people out of your house from time to time. It doesn't mean you don't care about that person. It just means that they are not respecting what your are trying to do and sometimes you just have to let that person go. That is with all aspects of life. Some relationships come to an end and you have to say good bye to that person and "love them from afar" Wish them well in their journeys and keep moving down your path. There may be a divide in how people feel about it, but I guess that is just human nature. We will never agree on everrything, but it seems like the majority of folks here at Avalon are very respectful and open minded to all opinions. Keep up the good work!

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  21. Link to Post #113
    United States Avalon Member edina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Billyjl posted this video "Make of it What You Will", from David Icke, in another thread.

    It seems relevant here in this discussion. It mirrors Bill's insights beautifully!!!!

    One statement David Icke made in this video that stuck with me is "We have to respect every individual's right to come to their own conclusions about life, themselves, and reality."

    I've discovered in the journey to discern truth and to know my Self, that once I began to truly trust myself, it became natural for me to know how to trust others. The same with respect, and honor, and even genuine love and gratitude.

    When I was in the Air Force, I had a small stint where I was a Leadership School Instructor. One of the main things I learned from this experience is how important it was that our trust, and respect be mutual, or radiant. Moving between us, if possible in all directions.

    The more we listen to our inner compass of truth, the more discerning we become.

    Knowing is not the same thing as knowledge.

    The more we act with trust in our knowing, the stronger we KNOW.

    Knowing moves faster than the speed of thought, it is whole and fully integrated. It incorporates information from the whole range of Reality. This is why it is difficult to try to express this into words. Knowing is inclusive to dimensions of Reality that our culture doesn't yet acknowledge, and certainly hasn't a language.

    And Knowing is timeless, it moves beyond our conceptions of time. Therefore, when we live from knowing we experience more perfect timing in our lives, what many call synchronicity.

    If we are talking, interacting with, relating to someone who is in denial of their Self, and their inner knowing that comes from this Self, they very often become uncomfortable. This denial of our Self, is probably where the shadow selves emerge. Many of the difficulties in our relationships lies with this unconscious action going on amongst our shadow selves.

    This is why I said elsewhere, in another forum, that when the experiences happened that many people perceived to be attacks, I perceived to be intense energy. I chose to make good and creative use of this high and intense energy. I stayed with my own negative stuff that bubbled to the surface, and released a lot of conditioning, shadow selves, and stuck places and blockages. This is one of my gains, it was actually quite cool for me, I learned all kinds of things I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

    For example, I discovered that often my experience of a person changed when I owned my perception of them. I found that when I chose to change my mind, or my perception of a person, the person literally began to behave differently with me.

    Our mirrors show up in our lives out of acts of love.

    The psychic, or metaphysical, or hyper-dimensional space between me and the person completely transformed us, both. Very Cool stuff!!!!

    This would be a real world example of putting the mirroring principles in action. By owning my own projections, as SEAM very eloquently stated in earlier.

    The experience of knowing is you Know, or you don't. And until you know, you don't know. Sort of like the old adage of the steps to wisdom.

    It's important to me to state here, that we all have access to this way of being, and knowing, and the more each of us embraces this, the more every one us will know this for ourselves.

    David Icke closes this interview talking about how his head intellect and his heart knowing are no longer in conflict. They once were, however, they now are harmonious and integrated.

    This business of integrating the full range of who we are, becoming in integrity with our Selves, is in my opinion, a very important business to be about. And, it is very personal, or unique to each of us.

    Here's the link to billyjl's post and the video: Make Of It What You Will

    Thanks for that post billy!!!! Love and gratitude to all present...
    I happily co-create a balanced world culture harmonized with Infinite Intelligence. ~ edina (Renaissance Humanity)

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Bill: Our goal is to make this a pleasant, enjoyable, inspiring, informative, educational, fascinating, mutually supportive and uplifting place to be. If some members do not have those goals, then this is not the forum for them to hang out in.
    nuff said? peace and love..xx
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 22nd April 2011 at 17:41. Reason: fixed quote formatting

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    Default Re: Integrity

    -----

    Since I've been browsing here for several months, I've noticed posts on all ends of the spectrum - from the excessively aggressive to the embarrassingly sycophantic - although on the whole, the majority fall within these extreme boundaries.

    I agree that the posters that are deemed repeat 'excessive aggressives' should be asked to depart, but I also think that should be the same for the 'sycophants' as well. Neither demonstrate in my mind the values of the forum, especially integrity & honesty.
    "Stop getting Bond wrong!" (Alan Partridge)

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Icecold (here)
    Purges occur for many reasons and they are always justified in some way or another. People do not like dissent and react accordingly.
    ...
    Integrity is not associated with sycophants.
    I can tell you that in discussions between mods/admins/Bill, that never has anyone shot up a red flag because of dissent. Dissenters are free thinkers, treasured resources in the community. Without dissenters, Project Avalon would become a crypt for zombies. Dissent isn't just welcomed, it is encouraged. Remember that almost all of us here would be considered as dissenters compared to Joe and Jane Average. Dissent, disagreement, debate are the lifeblood for lively discussion and learning. It's all in the presentation.

    A good example of a dissenter dissenting against dissenters is your current thread on Chemtrails. It's good stuff, it's making people think. You don't see any mods rushing in to stifle the dissent, correct?

    It may be easy to label someone as a sycophant when they appear amenable, or in agreement. It may also be true that what is being displayed is parallel thinking or synergy or synchronicity. This should not be terribly surprising, that a forum will attract like-minded people, and that a round of high-fives is not necessarily indicative of indiscriminate intellectual conformist behavior. I am at Project Avalon for two main reasons: to learn (and the freethinkers and dissenters certainly supply a good portion of that material), and to find and interact with and plan with and celebrate with like-minded people.

    Dennis

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    Default Re: Integrity

    I tend to be from the relativist camp, there are some terrific posters on here who have a deep and intuitive understanding across a buffet of topics. But I can also see that they have their own specialist areas (sometimes they are unaware of this) and are weaker or 'not fully formed' in other areas. This is me being discerning and that really is the key (for me anyway) on how to get the best out of this 'coming together'.

    As my friends on here know, I'd rather most oft make a joke in some debates rather than draw a psychological line under a topic or an opinion (cause I will admit some days I wake up and have changed my mind on certain thing). If I'm not sure or have nothing tangental/new to add, I often rather keep it light than wanting to 'restrain' the 'flow' of a fellow Avalonian...There is a certain kind of art to this that takes time to develop and of course you must also understand your innner motivations (which can be masked by ego or interferance and so on..).

    The ones I talk with on PM know that if they really push me, in private I can be more forthright or categorical and my voice has more finality...

    That is sometimes not helpful or cohesive on the open board AND it stops me LEARNING.

    Things are in flux and at this time in the history of our world and our consciousness it is important to stay OPEN.

    love

    K
    In all ages, in all lands, there have been those who seek truth. This seeking is an individual's search for something more than self, and much more than the confines of this worldly system. It is the seeker, who understands there is more than what meets the eye, who is not afraid and makes the choice to go into the unknown. The process of awaking has begun, the discovery is underway.
    Alan Watt

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  31. Link to Post #118
    UK Avalon Member quench's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Our goal is to make this a pleasant, enjoyable, inspiring, informative, educational, fascinating, mutually supportive and uplifting place to be. If some members do not have those goals, then this is not the forum for them to hang out in.
    Mission accomplished! This is by far the best forum on the net in my opinion.
    We Are The World

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  33. Link to Post #119
    England Avalon Member K626's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by DevilPigeon (here)
    -----

    Since I've been browsing here for several months, I've noticed posts on all ends of the spectrum - from the excessively aggressive to the embarrassingly sycophantic - although on the whole, the majority fall within these extreme boundaries.

    I agree that the posters that are deemed repeat 'excessive aggressives' should be asked to depart, but I also think that should be the same for the 'sycophants' as well. Neither demonstrate in my mind the values of the forum, especially integrity & honesty.
    The other thing is that there is a huge gap sometimes in communication when posting on a board, I'd bet anything there would be less dissent and aggresssion in the mix if we all met for a beer.

    cheers

    K
    In all ages, in all lands, there have been those who seek truth. This seeking is an individual's search for something more than self, and much more than the confines of this worldly system. It is the seeker, who understands there is more than what meets the eye, who is not afraid and makes the choice to go into the unknown. The process of awaking has begun, the discovery is underway.
    Alan Watt

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  35. Link to Post #120
    England Avalon Member DevilPigeon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by K626 (here)
    Quote Posted by DevilPigeon (here)
    -----

    Since I've been browsing here for several months, I've noticed posts on all ends of the spectrum - from the excessively aggressive to the embarrassingly sycophantic - although on the whole, the majority fall within these extreme boundaries.

    I agree that the posters that are deemed repeat 'excessive aggressives' should be asked to depart, but I also think that should be the same for the 'sycophants' as well. Neither demonstrate in my mind the values of the forum, especially integrity & honesty.
    The other thing is that there is a huge gap sometimes in communication when posting on a board, I'd bet anything there would be less dissent and aggresssion in the mix if we all met for a beer.

    cheers

    K
    Good point Sir.

    And you're in the seat, seeing as you suggested it!
    "Stop getting Bond wrong!" (Alan Partridge)

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