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Thread: Integrity

  1. Link to Post #281
    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    Quote Posted by jjl (here)
    breath in............................................... breath out
    Whew ... Heaving a big sigh thank you
    just for a break while breathing: Sierra, I don't know if your avatar is your cat or not, but if it is we are twins through our cats. Mine is identical. Yes, I am off topic, oups!

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  3. Link to Post #282
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    I still don't see where Avalon integrity is at stake here , when we the contributors of this site are the sole integrity keepers??
    I would gladly agree with you if we, the contributors of this site, were the sole integrity keepers. Unfortunately, that's not the case. When push comes to shove, we have seen Bill overrule entire moderation teams (and there's no telling how many times we didn't see it -- those that know have all been banned).

    I know the argument is that this is Bill's house, and he can do whatever he pleases, but that ignores the fact that this house could never have been built without the contributions of so many Avalon members. Imagine you are invited to help build a house where all contributors can enjoy shelter and camaraderie. You work hard and help build a magnificent structure. You enjoy almost every minute of the time spent creating this beautiful shelter. Out of the blue, the foreman comes up to you and says, "This is my house, and it's no longer the place for you. Pack up your tools and leave immediately."

    How do you feel about the project's integrity then?
    well Chico, you need to remember the attack Richard was under, the broom was out and everything in Avalon was about to be wiped out in a fit of rage...

    Richard is a great guy, but at that moment when he cooled he realized it was time to step back to figure out what happened...

    It was mutual on both sides and those that stood with Richard as friends will always be there for him when he needs it... like Bill...
    Coincidence or Destiny, it's all in the art of knowing.... III IIII charts ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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  5. Link to Post #283
    Avalon Retired Member Ross's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Both parties have to bring integrity to the table and I don't see this over at Nexus. They seem to be riling each other up as hard as they can. This does not allow time to give healing nor the emotional body to calm down. This is insincere behavior. Sit down and breathe dammit.
    Hello all,

    Some Members are upset at Nexus, but not all, some Members are rilled up, but not all. 445 members are there and only some are in the catergory you state. You say you dont see integrity at Nexus, I'm guessing you have only focused on certain threads and posters, to come to this conclusion? There are infact several posters on the threads you have read, that are infact trying very hard to "bring integrity to the table"... to both forums.

    Please, it helps the over-all community to be as accurate as possible when posting statements.
    Judging an entire community (Nexus and Avalon) based on a few threads is not an accurate account for what they (the Membership) stand for.

    Regards,

    Ross

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    Default Re: Integrity


    I thank everyone. this thread is riviting

    When you forgive someone, be sure to forgive the both of you- EJ Erha

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    Quote Posted by jjl (here)
    breath in............................................... breath out
    Whew ... Heaving a big sigh thank you
    just for a break while breathing: Sierra, I don't know if your avatar is your cat or not, but if it is we are twins through our cats. Mine is identical. Yes, I am off topic, oups!
    That is McKnao. I'll PM you later with a story about how I met McKnao

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  11. Link to Post #286
    United States Moderator Sierra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Ross (here)
    Quote Both parties have to bring integrity to the table and I don't see this over at Nexus. They seem to be riling each other up as hard as they can. This does not allow time to give healing nor the emotional body to calm down. This is insincere behavior. Sit down and breathe dammit.
    Hello all,

    Some Members are upset at Nexus, but not all, some Members are rilled up, but not all. 445 members are there and only some are in the catergory you state. You say you dont see integrity at Nexus, I'm guessing you have only focused on certain threads and posters, to come to this conclusion? There are infact several posters on the threads you have read, that are infact trying very hard to "bring integrity to the table"... to both forums.

    Please, it helps the over-all community to be as accurate as possible when posting statements.
    Judging an entire community (Nexus and Avalon) based on a few threads is not an accurate account for what they (the Membership) stand for.

    Regards,

    Ross
    Thank you for the correction Ross. Yes, I was on only one thread, "Banned Members?" it was called? I do remember you were polite and respectful. I scrolled back up to see who it was. I don't remember others but I do believe you. I apologize for slighting and not mentioning the good.

    My point and I may have not mentioned this and I apologize is that the new thread "Banned Members" had the same tone and energy as the original thread at the time Richard and the mods left Avalon, which was months ago.

    I have to hop off this thread, I'm moving too fast and hurting people. Again, I apologize Ross.

    Off to breathe

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  13. Link to Post #287
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    Default Re: Integrity

    I don't expect the mods or bill to be perfect any more than I think they expect me to be.
    That being said, I would hope that they are striving to be that way.
    The mods are doing a good job considering time constraints and their newfound roles into which they are trying to fit.
    So screwups may happen and probably will. There aren't any mods on this forum that I don't appreciate and have fond thoughts of.
    That being said, we are on a fine line right now.
    If we ban, unsubscribe, or whatever term we use those that challenge us, who is left to make us stretch ourselves to the next level?
    There is no wisdom in relaxing.
    It is like bodybuilding, there is no gain without pain. Maybe bill doesn't appreciate some of us putting him on the spot and questioning him and/or pointing out his errors.
    But that is too bad for bill, in the real world, that is how it works.
    And, that is much to bills benefit, for if we were all sycophants, who would tell him that he is naked?
    Modwiz is my brother. I love the guy and will miss him here, but I will be with him in real life and that is better.
    There are others who have been ejected, zook for example, that I didn't like to see, some I know of some I don't, but it makes me sad to see users logged in with grey names when we have trolls who are still allowed to post here.
    I have absolutely no problem with people coming to me and proving me wrong, in fact, I invite you to do so, you are doing me a favour if you do.
    I don't know bill, I have never met him, but I think he needs our reality checks every so often, as we all do.
    If he bans those who do it, then who is going to pull him up and ask him the hard questions?
    On the same token, I still would like to thank bill for a)putting this forum up and b)accepting me as a member. I have met some damn fine people here who not only are welcome in my lounge, they can stay over as long as they want.
    I have also learnt much whilst I have been here too, which is why I came here.
    Let me finish by yet again posting this vid of Ofra Haza.


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    Default Re: Integrity

    Please dont leave sierra, we are all grownups here and I value your posts

    When you forgive someone, be sure to forgive the both of you- EJ Erha

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  16. Link to Post #289
    Canada Avalon Member sandy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Quote Posted by skippy (here)
    Quote Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
    Maybye I can get an answer if I whisper
    Jorr, everybody knows what happened to Modwiz. Just check out his personal explanation on Nexus. The point is that we would like to hear the story from Bill and/or the mods. I agree with Chico, that the integrity of PA is here at stake. But, at the same time, I trust Bill and his team to step forward, to clarify things and to take some appropriate actions. Transparancy is needed to restore the balance and integrity of this endeavour. We need to learn from this experience, take the appropriate actions and move forward hand in hand with our friends at Nexus.

    Respectfully yours,

    Skip.
    I'm sorry to differ with you here Skippy, but I don't thing projects Avalons integrity is in question here???????????????? as has been stated by Bill and others, its is our integrity being questioned here, and for that reason a clean up.
    regards
    roman
    Dear Romanwkt,

    My question to you then is as a whole>>>> Are we not Avalon?>>> Your words were "check our integrity" or are you meaning every individual here at Avalon needs to their integrity?
    Last edited by sandy; 24th April 2011 at 00:33. Reason: grammar
    Love and Light Always/Sandy

  17. Link to Post #290
    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by Jendayi (here)
    well said brother! (may i call you brother?)
    You need not ask, Jendayi. We are brothers, and we always have been. Everyone here is family. That's why it pains me to see family members treated unfairly by other family members. This is a critical problem, and it's precisely why the integrity of Avalon is at stake. Avalon is a microcosm of humanity, and humanity itself is still searching for ways to solve the exact same problem. The answer has been with us for millennia -- "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." We know the answer. Why can't we be the answer? If we want to know what integrity is, we need look no further than that.
    chicodoodoo my dear friend, you expressed yourself loud and clear. I am sure you have been heard. Now it may be time to let go and rest. Let time do its work, because it has already. I see a lot of change in people all over lately, and this is good news, including change in me, in Bill from the ways he writes, and in some others in the forum itself. This is Easter, have fun with your nice family and your children, enjoy life. And happy Easter.

    Everyday life mixing with Avalon: By the way, while I was answering you I burned the nice indian rice I was making for dinner - my teenager and her friend, both wearing rainbow colours eye shadow and big pinky earings, talking about boys, and texting at dinner table (I had to stop them), ate the rice and delicately, politely, pushed it aside asking for more salad (their faces were funny). You see, my daughter has rules in this house - no phone at the table and you eat what you are served - and her invitees have to respect them as well. Usually I say nothing until it goes a bit overboard, then I gently realign the situation with teenagers, or talk about it with adults. If it does not work, I become more imposing -I would have taken the phones away.

    Everywhere basic respect rules are in place usually, throughout the world. This forum seems to have the same, even if unspoken sometimes. The only difference is that we have the world diaspora here and that basic rules may differ from place to place, making confusion sometimes greater, but nonetheless, respect rules are in place.

    Have a great Easter Sunday Chicodoodoo and all of you Avalonians.
    Last edited by Flash; 24th April 2011 at 00:50.

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    I don't expect the mods or bill to be perfect any more than I think they expect me to be.
    That being said, I would hope that they are striving to be that way.
    The mods are doing a good job considering time constraints and their newfound roles into which they are trying to fit.
    So screwups may happen and probably will. There aren't any mods on this forum that I don't appreciate and have fond thoughts of.
    That being said, we are on a fine line right now.
    If we ban, unsubscribe, or whatever term we use those that challenge us, who is left to make us stretch ourselves to the next level?
    There is no wisdom in relaxing.
    It is like bodybuilding, there is no gain without pain. Maybe bill doesn't appreciate some of us putting him on the spot and questioning him and/or pointing out his errors.
    But that is too bad for bill, in the real world, that is how it works.
    And, that is much to bills benefit, for if we were all sycophants, who would tell him that he is naked?
    Modwiz is my brother. I love the guy and will miss him here, but I will be with him in real life and that is better.
    There are others who have been ejected, zook for example, that I didn't like to see, some I know of some I don't, but it makes me sad to see users logged in with grey names when we have trolls who are still allowed to post here.
    I have absolutely no problem with people coming to me and proving me wrong, in fact, I invite you to do so, you are doing me a favour if you do.
    I don't know bill, I have never met him, but I think he needs our reality checks every so often, as we all do.
    If he bans those who do it, then who is going to pull him up and ask him the hard questions?
    On the same token, I still would like to thank bill for a)putting this forum up and b)accepting me as a member. I have met some damn fine people here who not only are welcome in my lounge, they can stay over as long as they want.
    I have also learnt much whilst I have been here too, which is why I came here.
    Let me finish by yet again posting this vid of Ofra Haza.

    Lord Sidious couldn't have said it better. HERE HERE!
    PEACE
    OBADIAH 1:21
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    "...where ever you go, there you are..."

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    Default Re: Integrity

    I see us here and those at Nexus trying to operate with integrity as much as possible and for the most part doing a great job. I also truly hope those endeavouring to bring 'integrity to the table' at Nexus will succeed. I don't know all the in's and out's of exactly what happened but I can imagine that starting a new site after such a huge emotional discord was always going to make for a tricky start and the situation on 'some' of their threads is a reflection of that.... but I'm hopeful for the Nexus folk that this will pass.

    I'm an Avolonian and to date happily so, but I do wish Nexus to be a place where people who resonate with the team there find comradeship, knowledge and peace.

    As we trade blows are we not mere reflections of each other?

    Peace and warm wishes to all....

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    Default Re: Integrity

    I received some very good advice recently about being patient. An increasingly rare quality.

    When tensions are high, and change is electric in the air, it's so easy to go for a knee-jerk reaction. Make big changes, sever ties, burn bridges... And that may not be a completely bad idea, often this acts as a catalyst for change...and over time, the action turns out to be for the best.

    However...

    I also thank Sierra, for setting the good example of taking a breathing break. A deep breath is sometimes all it takes to connect us with the calm within and feel the detachment necessary to act with patience.

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  25. Link to Post #294
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    ... When push comes to shove, we have seen Bill overrule entire moderation teams (and there's no telling how many times we didn't see it -- those that know have all been banned).

    I know the argument is that this is Bill's house, and he can do whatever he pleases, but that ignores the fact that this house could never have been built without the contributions of so many Avalon members.

    How do you feel about the project's integrity then?
    There are different kinds of forum structure. So far, I have not been on one that is truly 'holographic'/headless structure (though I have seen that claim made.) It would literally mean that a consensus or majority vote of members could oust the founder(s.) It is true that a forum founder or owner is not the whole forum, but they most certainly have a distinction and certainly deserve respect.

    Seems like there are forums for everything these days, and often if you want to get any kind of technical help, you are best served by joining a forum. So, you might find yourself on a vacuum cleaner forum one day, a photography forum the next, and tomorrow you might end up on one of the computer hardware or software forums...

    I have been on many forums, and am an admin and/or founder of a couple of them. They are all different, but all of them have some set structure (rules) and some moderation (at least to remove Spam and porn and throw a bucket of water on a flame war.)

    If a forum is specifically set up to attempt egalitarianism, then members have the right to expect something approaching pure democracy or pure communism or pure socialism (they all sort of blur as ideologies, at some point.) Most forums are not like that. Project Avalon was not like that when I visited before joining, or when I joined (with Richard, Ross, Beth, Luke, etc. as admins/mods.) The mods were actively moderating, there were members getting 'vacations', there were members that were getting 'decommissioned.' The mods did what they thought was fair, and what was best for Avalon - and it was under Bill's guidance.

    Would you steal an apple from a fruit vendor that isn't watching? Would you cheat on your spouse if you knew you could get away with it? Would you openly mock one of your friends behind their back, attempting to damage their reputation, and then feign innocence or cry 'foul' when they find out about it - and would you really be surprised if they didn't want you for a friend any more?

    Integrity is what you do when no one is looking.

    Dennis

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    Default Re: Integrity

    I've been on full moderation forums where 80% is bounced back from most posters...

    I like this free environment, and think Avalon has finally found peace...

    It is a quiet forum but now will have many knowledgeable posters that have always stayed away from zoos join us.


    I want Bill and Kerry to continue their search for Rabbit holes, that is what Camelot/Avalon is about, they shouldn't have to babysit anyone...


    I just want to see the incredible videos continue opening all of us up to unknown truths...


    That's why I'm here...
    Coincidence or Destiny, it's all in the art of knowing.... III IIII charts ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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  29. Link to Post #296
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
    well Chico, you need to remember the attack Richard was under, the broom was out and everything in Avalon was about to be wiped out in a fit of rage...
    Agreed, there was a problem there, but in retrospect, it did not merit banishment. Removing Richard as a moderator, perhaps temporarily, would have been more than sufficient.

    However, the problem we are seeing now is much more serious. Modwiz apparently was removed for expressing his honest opinion both here, in private messages, and on the 2012 Nexus forum. Goldenyears and Lightblue appear to have been blind-sided out of the blue. And what about Aroundthetable? How many more have disappeared today for little reason?

    Would it not be more reasonable to have a "three strikes" policy before a member is permanently banned? Wouldn't a simple "cease and desist" as the first strike be sufficient in many cases? How about a one week cooling-off period for strike two?
    [COLOR="blue"]It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle [B]us[/B] if we know the truth.[/COLOR]

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    England Avalon Member SKIBADABOMSKI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Last edited by SKIBADABOMSKI; 24th April 2011 at 04:28.

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    France Avalon Member Amzer Zo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Time for deep reflections...

    This thread has become a hall of mirrors...

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    [...]

    Many of you will know that I've recently got to know Inelia quite well. When I first met her, she explained to me that the way each person sees her is a mirror. They only see themselves.

    It took a while for me to fully understand this. Initially, I thought that this was a kind of interesting poetic metaphor.

    But I came to realize that what she was describing is a remarkable phenomenon that is literally true in her case: and that, at least partially (and maybe more than partially), this also applies to myself, and of course some other people, too. To consider this in all its aspects is more than fascinating.

    [...]

    To call it how I think it is: the regroupings, the new friendships and relationships, and the re-arranged alliances are manifestations and reflections of us as spiritual beings. Not of anything else.

    If this is what I feel this is, this is an enormously important development. It's hard to talk about this in anything other than metaphor. Some of you will grasp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring.
    So... while keeping taking deep breaths, empty your pockets of their stones content and look at the reflections eye to eye.

    Then reflect on it.

    (keep breathing...)
    "La liberté de chacun s'arrête là où commence celle des autres"
    “There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is, seeing something that isn't there.” LRH

    The psycho's utter terror: "This universe is entirely composed -- but for one trivial exception -- of others."

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    Default Re: Integrity

    thank you all for your contributions on this thread. I feel like i'm surrounded by sentinels of good sense. I try to always be open and honest in what i say and do, so my comments earlier were posted not in haste but with a real sense of doubt regarding the direction of the forum... However reading the ensuing comments as allayed my fears, there still remains the original community which i am happy to connect with. thank you all once again.

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    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
    well Chico, you need to remember the attack Richard was under, the broom was out and everything in Avalon was about to be wiped out in a fit of rage...
    Agreed, there was a problem there, but in retrospect, it did not merit banishment. Removing Richard as a moderator, perhaps temporarily, would have been more than sufficient.

    However, the problem we are seeing now is much more serious. Modwiz apparently was removed for expressing his honest opinion both here, in private messages, and on the 2012 Nexus forum. Goldenyears and Lightblue appear to have been blind-sided out of the blue. And what about Aroundthetable? How many more have disappeared today for little reason?

    Would it not be more reasonable to have a "three strikes" policy before a member is permanently banned? Wouldn't a simple "cease and desist" as the first strike be sufficient in many cases? How about a one week cooling-off period for strike two?
    I see two things in your comments:
    1. The aggravation based on not knowing that some of your friends are in trouble with the forum, the hows and whys of it. Followed by the unexpected mourning that has to be done.
    2. The three strikes practices to make sure everything is fair.

    I do understand how one feels when we lose a friend we like to communicate with. I wonder though if the friend would have wanted us to know they were swimming in troubled waters, or if they wanted to keep it for themselves. It does not stop the discomfort of lost though, and the potential mistrust on decisions we were not informed about as they went along.

    For the three strikes, they may have had the 3 strikes opportunities. I am not sure about that either, but following Bill's responses, patience was given by the whole team of mods, therefore more than 3 strikes. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Therefore, the whole things comes to transparency, isn't it? and communication may be.

    I still burned my dinner for you Chicodoodoo!

    ps: I am correcting my post. I did not want to reduce the whole discussion on integrity to transparency and communication only. I still maintain that integrity is to be coherent with oneself, that there should not be a clash between integrity and acceptance or tolerance of diversity and that forgiveness to oneself first is all part of it. I do maintain my previous posts. I just wanted to clarify Chicodoodoo discontent, to make it easier to find a solution satisfying everyone, for all circumstances.
    Last edited by Flash; 24th April 2011 at 06:43.

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