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Thread: Integrity

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    Avalon Member Inelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Icecold, allow me to hijack your writing on one of the other threads, on topics unrelated to this one. It can help to explain so much in my opinion.

    Please bare with me with this long post, there is a logic throughout that has to be explained.

    For those that love Charles, I am in for a real blasting here, so please, replace Charles by the 33, in case he was truly genuine as you may believe. It is the principles that matter here, not the persons. The following is, in my view, for the welfare of us all.

    It goes as follows:

    Quote Re: Chemtrail pilot talks
    From Icecold:
    What happened to the thread??????

    Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.

    As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position.

    Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series) and illusory correlation (in which people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

    A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs. Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In combination with other effects, this strategy can bias the conclusions that are reached. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another proposal is that people show confirmation bias because they are pragmatically assessing the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

    Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Hence they can lead to disastrous decisions, especially in organizational, military, political and social contexts.

    Now a little history:

    1. Charles/33 come in somewhere last August or even prior in Bill’s life. He/they presented himself/themselves as the destructor of Avalon, and of Bill in his physical body – following Kerry, Bill still has death threats. The destructor, Charles, has a change of heart – having had his life spared thanks to Bill - and won’t do the job given to him.

    This could (speculation here) only means he won’t kill him, because he owes him that much. Therefore, he and/or they 33, found a mean of doing the job while not having to make Bill disappear, by killing Avalon.

    In the mind of paid “problem solvers” this is a great gift and a real change of heart, what Charles did. I do thank Charles for sparing Bill’s life.

    2. Now, the best way to destroy something is through looking at its prey, its behaviour, habits, weaknesses and strengths, be it in commercial terms between competitors, in hunter’s terms during hunting season, or in a killer’s/33/destructors terms.

    So, Avalon’ structure is analysed, Bill’s behaviour is analysed, and every important member of Avalon is analysed – through regular means, simple behavioural and structural studies (barely speculative, this is how it is done on a regular basis in ordinary businesses and more in depth by the army during wartime).

    Other means – unknown to normal folks - may have been used to see the future potential of members and their impact on Avalon (speculation here).

    Then measures are taken. And this with the outmost grace and pleasantness if it was coming from Charles. If you master the information and know how, why would you be unpleasant?

    3. The measure taken will always start with the easiest, namely structures and behaviours. Here Icecold article comes in handy
    Quote ]“people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs”.
    Furthermore, what will often be considered is in fact biased:

    Quote ]“gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs” .
    You can be absolutely sure about this. This is people’s basic behaviours. This is why change is so hard to achieve in families, organisations, societies or forums. As Carmody just mentioned in another thread, we are pre-wired to see in certain ways, to “lie to ourselves” for faster brain processing.

    Now, was there any more emotionally significant issues for Bill and Richard than Avalon existence – which, standing alone, is quite an emotional issue. The answer is yes: Bill’s life, consciously or not, and Richard’s wife, consciously or not.

    I explain: Bill has been threatened covertly or overtly for a while (see Kerry’s comments). Anybody in his place would feel edgy. This may cloud one’s reactions and behaviours.

    On the other hand, the most interesting hitting point was Richard, he was holding the day to day aspects of the forum together. Get at him and be efficient, to make sure he holds a constant grudge, that will permeate even when the Avalon’s problem is resolved (meaning dead).

    How do you do it? Here are some speculations, based of reading through the lines of Céline’s posts on Avalon: Through Richard’s weakest point, Céline. Be nice to Céline, make sure she feels like a potential saviour, an extraordinary women and hit when she is on the downside of manic disorder. She will pick on it.

    Richard’s will feel edgy for the forum and for his wife at the same time (for losing her personally or through the illness), and he will make mistakes. Easy, just drive the guy crazy. Any other extra stress – which may have inadvertently been given by stressed out Bill or others, and there it is, mistakes in behaviours.

    One of the main characteristic of manipulators is that they will end up having people do things that are entirely out of their natural make up. Ex: Vincent Lacroix in Quebec who stole 30 millions$ from pension funds- his accountant is now in jail and he still does not understands how come he let this fraud go on, this was out of character for him, but he rots in jail, while Lacroix is basically out.

    Following Icecold article, this:

    Quote “explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence)”.
    In behavioural science, you can absolutely count on this.

    What are the expected behaviours/desires we can count on here precisely:

    INTEGRITY for one (established expected belief system, positive in open relationship, but usable if one wants destruction) –
    POLARISATION – BITCHING for the other (expected behaviour when grudge/beliefs blindness holds).

    Once the first results show up and the strategy is well implemented, the manipulators can leave, human behaviour will take over, this becomes automatic, pre-wiring and grudge doing the job.

    4. Why do I bring this point: In my idea, anything still polarized in this forum is the result of what went on previously.

    When we continue, anyone of us, hammering this nail, we are pursuing the manipulation job already started by PTB and/or the 33 and/or Charles.

    Furthermore, we can be assured that this will be tried again if the forum holds up. If we know how manipulation works, it will be easier to defeat.

    When I deal with manipulators, one thing I do is to behave in unexpected ways. I behave and react in unexpected ways that are not in my basic temperament, in order to throw the manipulators off and have the time to recoup and strategize. This is difficult to do when one is basically straightforward and honest.

    It took me literally 35 years to learn. Do I like it: NO. Do I have to do it? Usually not, I just leave. But I will do it if needed, while trying to hold love in my heart - these manipulators are only doing what they have learned, and it pays them well. And most manipulators are not aware of manipulating – not true for the trained ones.


    5. Please, stop doing the manipulators jobs. Openly desiring integrity and transparency for example, in open relationships, is entirely fine and helpful. Doing the same in manipulative circumstances is naive and not helpful. IMHO.

    Relaying suspicion, he said, she said, he said, and trashing anybody that have regular behaviour (sometimes without grandeur, but just human petiteness) in any way is doing the manipulator’s job, for him. How silly will we get?

    6. This is why I was trying to mitigate what was said in some of my posts, and told some of you to rest. Rest, recoup and relaunch with open heart. Lets stop doing the destructive job started by manipulators and please move on to better areas of openness.

    I really hope that Richard and Céline are reading this as well because I am sure they are fundamentally of good hearts, as Bill is as well, and that these behaviours could be stopped. Mourning is over, destruction happened, now lets move on. I also hope Bill reads it.

    7. Lets go back to open, honest and working relationships and really define what is

    INTEGRITY

    for each one of us, and for us all.

    Thanks to all for your patience at reading this long post, hopefully it will be helpful. Love to all.

    Flash
    Excellent post.

    Also note, that Avalon is still here, and going strong. And, if we follow the same theory, it was because the majority of members, including Bill, did not respond the way they (Charles/33) were expecting.
    Last edited by Inelia; 26th April 2011 at 01:15.
    I'm allergic to seriousness

    The Purpose of Life

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by NancyV (here)
    I went over to Nexus to read some of the posts there and a part of me got literally nauseated at reading the comments from some of the posters
    Ditto.

    So I stopped reading them.

    However.

    What disturbs me most?

    That some of the posters over at Nexus are also here, but when they are here, they sing from a different song sheet.

    Integrity.

    Just sayin'

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by Fred S. (here)
    there is much more that unites us here at Avalon than divides us.

    When members are banned, the truth is being censored. Even if the truth is that much of what the banned member is saying is a vindictive fabrication, that truth is being censored. Eventually the truth will pop up somewhere else, maybe in another forum, but not here. Avalon is supposedly all about uncovering the truth. Why can't we deal with it? Isn't that why we are here?
    Well said Chicodoodoo, I totally agree with you.
    Last edited by andywight; 26th April 2011 at 01:19.

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  7. Link to Post #464
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by SKAWF (here)
    hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?
    No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.
    [COLOR="blue"]It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle [B]us[/B] if we know the truth.[/COLOR]

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by perfectresonance (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Jonathan (here)
    What prompted you [Bill]? Is everything OK? Did you find a wolf in a sheep costume recently?
    There are still some here, I note. Some not even bothering with a costume!
    Let's not start bashing wolves. I've got enough problems.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know. -Lao Tzu

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by SKAWF (here)
    hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?
    No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.
    thanks for the response Chico.

    please dont see this as an attack....

    if you cant point to anything he said that was a lie,
    and nor can you point to anything that is true.....

    how can you be sure about what you think you know?

    steve
    when i went there nothing happened!, i was bored out of my mind..................in the Twilight Zone.

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    United States Avalon Member Whiskey_Mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by SKAWF (here)
    hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?
    No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.
    Charles said something to the effect that the first crop circles were caused by drones that malfunctioned and landed in fields. Nonsense.

    Charles also made statements regarding the involvement of St. Germaine. I can't prove it to any of you, but I know for myself that this is absolute balderdash. I have my own access to that wonderful entity.



    edit- oh crap, did this just become another Charles thread? (John Cleese voice) Sorry, everyone. So sorry.
    Last edited by Whiskey_Mystic; 26th April 2011 at 01:28.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know. -Lao Tzu

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    Default Re: Integrity

    years ago I was active in the Bahai religion which came out of Iran in the 19th century. There were many prophecies about this period, some fulfilled, such as the prophecies of the two world wars. If anyone is interested i could share them.

    Anyway, there was one particular prophecy which never made any sense, but has become clearer to me now, and I think it refered to what is happening right here at Avalon.
    I think Baha'u'llah meant us and in particular he meant Charles, Rocky, Inelia, and some others.
    (whatever went on between Charles and Inelia I attribute to a misunderstanding, no more, which can be easily straightened out, but due to fall-out of Charles not having had enough preparation for people who had been on the search path for decades longer than himself. I basically see all of us on the same side.)
    Here is the prophecy. Remember this came out of an offshoot of Shi'ite Islam, so allowances have to be made as far as the language is concerned. The "Faith of God" is the religion of Oneness...not Islam, by the way.
    I had always thought he was talking about ETs, but now think he is talking about psychics as well as Indigo and Crystal children.


    "The day is approaching when God will have, by an act of His Will, raised up a race of men the nature of which is inscrutable to all save God, the All-Powerful, the Self-Subsisting.”
    “He will, erelong, out of the Bosom of Power, draw forth the Hands of Ascendancy and Might—Hands who will arise to win victory for this Youth, and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. These Hands will gird up their loins to champion the Faith of God, and will, in My name, the Self-Subsistent, the Mighty, subdue the peoples and kindreds of the earth. They will enter the cities, and will inspire with fear the hearts of all their inhabitants. Such are the evidences of the might of God; how fearful, how vehement is His might!”

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    When members are banned, the truth is being censored. Even if the truth is that much of what the banned member is saying is a vindictive fabrication, that truth is being censored.
    I'm not sure if my brain is wired up to understand that.

    If people are banned for lying, the truth is being censored?

    Nope. That makes my head hurt.

    We are all people with flaws.

    Teams work very well with flawed people.

    But sometimes a flawed person adopts a behaviour that stops the team from progressing.

    It causes the team to fracture.

    It may even destroy the team as people take sides.

    If the team wants to gets things back on track, such members need to be removed.

    And that's not a bad thing - it's part of the process.

    It may even mean there are now two teams, both working towards their own goal without the road blocks they felt were in place when together.

    Integrity is to recognise the problem and deal with it openly.

    Tick.

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by SKAWF (here)
    hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?
    No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.
    Charles said something to the effect that the first crop circles were caused by drones that malfunctioned and landed in fields. Nonsense.

    Charles also made statements regarding the involvement of St. Germaine. I can't prove it to any of you, but I know for myself that this is absolute balderdash. I have my own access to that wonderful entity.
    thanks Whiskey.

    i wasnt aware of anything he said about crop circles,

    with regards to st germaine,
    why is it balderdash that charles might have an involvement with him,
    but yours is erm..... whats the opposite of balderdash?

    cheers
    steve

    PS true enough we have strayed a bit, but it does sort of relate to integrity
    Last edited by SKAWF; 26th April 2011 at 01:38.
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  21. Link to Post #471
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Okay so I skiped 22 pages
    but I'll have you all know that when I am a guest in someone elses house, I keep it in check and lift the seat for the ladies and try my best not to spray it all around so the next person who's invited does not have a stinky smelly wet facility to use after me!.. Thats integrity! [/end joke ]

    Some others mentioned an energy seperation feeling?

    Divide and conqure isn't bad when you do the dividing, leave your main army where they're expected, ask for volenteers to deviate from the main bodies duties, they then set up for ambushes, gorilla style warfare and flank when the enemy arives and the time is right. Divided but not conqured.

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  23. Link to Post #472
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by SKAWF (here)
    Quote Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by SKAWF (here)
    hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?
    No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.
    Charles said something to the effect that the first crop circles were caused by drones that malfunctioned and landed in fields. Nonsense.

    Charles also made statements regarding the involvement of St. Germaine. I can't prove it to any of you, but I know for myself that this is absolute balderdash. I have my own access to that wonderful entity.
    thanks Whiskey.

    i wasnt aware of anything he said about crop circles,

    with regards to st germaine,
    why is it balderdash that charles might have an involvement with him,
    but yours is erm..... whats the opposite of balderdash?

    cheers
    steve

    PS true enough we have strayed a bit, but it does sort of relate to integrity
    Are you asking me to prove something that I have already stated that I can't prove? Please note the usage of the words "for myself" in my statement. Thank you.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know. -Lao Tzu

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    Default Re: Integrity

    anyway, the truth is

    even though i might disagree wholeheartedly with someones view,
    i would still fight to my death for their right to express it.

    i heard that years ago.
    and i live in accordance with it.
    i hope that others extend the same curtesy to me.

    i do like avalon.
    theres a higher concentration of active minds here than most places.
    ive learned quite a bit from the people here.
    life changing stuff.

    steve
    when i went there nothing happened!, i was bored out of my mind..................in the Twilight Zone.

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Icecold (here)
    I'll tell you what, I would say anything I say in a post to anyone's face. Believe it.
    Having been a recipient of Ice Cold's to-my-face communications, I will back him up on that much.

    The issue here, Ice Cold, is that to claim Integrity is to say the same thing in public and in private, don't you think?

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Are you asking me to prove something that I have already stated that I can't prove? Please note the usage of the words "for myself" in my statement. Thank you.


    no i was asking why when charles says it, its balderdash,
    but when you say it, its the truth.

    to an outsider, i just see two people who say the same thing, but one calls the other a liar.

    cheers

    steve
    when i went there nothing happened!, i was bored out of my mind..................in the Twilight Zone.

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    Default Re: Integrity

    About Flash's theory: all those scenarios went through my head at one point, too.
    But when I engaged my heart a totally new picture emerged.
    I had this knowing that Charles had had a profound transformation.
    One can't expect he would change all his habits overnight,
    or suddenly have all the knowledge that most of us had spent years accumulating...
    that would be asking too much.

    I just know that he knew where he wanted to belong and be accepted and not have to return to his former haunts.
    Once one has seen a strong spiritual light and felt the lightness of being that comes with that
    it is hard to go back to the density of the lower dimensions,
    and the fear and the control structures that go with them.
    He is a mortal like the rest of us, and he found some connections here that were healing him.
    Those who have eyes to see, see.

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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    When members are banned, the truth is being censored. Even if the truth is that much of what the banned member is saying is a vindictive fabrication, that truth is being censored. Eventually the truth will pop up somewhere else, maybe in another forum, but not here. Avalon is supposedly all about uncovering the truth. Why can't we deal with it? Isn't that why we are here?
    It is uncovered. I suspect that is why this thread was opened up. We are dealing with it, you and I and everyone having an honest discussion here with their heart.

    I'm not sure that is why we are here as you ask... but I am willing to go through it so I can continue to be on Avalon in safety and respect. This issue is very important to me too Chico. And until you address the issue of safety and respect, I cannot unite with you and what you seem to want.

    You gotta give me a better plan.
    Sierra

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  35. Link to Post #478
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Inelia (here)
    A lie I know about personally, when Charles called me on Skype in January, he told me that he and Bill were putting together a team. When I asked Bill about this (a few minutes later), Bill told me he knew NOTHING ABOUT IT. That he was not putting together a team, that it was something he had not been consulted or talked about by Charles and that it had nothing to do with him (Bill).

    There's a one whopper for you
    Quote Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
    Charles said something to the effect that the first crop circles were caused by drones that malfunctioned and landed in fields. Nonsense.

    Charles also made statements regarding the involvement of St. Germaine. I can't prove it to any of you, but I know for myself that this is absolute balderdash. I have my own access to that wonderful entity.



    edit- oh crap, did this just become another Charles thread? (John Cleese voice) Sorry, everyone. So sorry.

    [ There were discussions on this forum of the "group of 18" Charles was forming. These discussions occurred some time after Bill learned of these plans, from Inelia amongst others. Aldous conflated these two events and asked a number of loaded questions, impugning the integrity of Bill and Inelia. Aldous also impugned Whiskey_Mystic. I will not let such (not so) covert hostilities remain on this forum. I have removed them. - Paul. ]
    Last edited by Paul; 26th April 2011 at 07:43.

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  37. Link to Post #479
    United States Moderator Sierra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    OK, this is something that has been bugging me for a long time and out comes my dark side. People keep saying Celine STILL has the record for the most postings on Avalon even though she has been gone for months. As if this is a compliment.

    At first I thought this was hysterically funny but now I find myself feeling anger. It is actually excessive and inappropriate control and lack of respect. Why on earth should posting one liners consisting usually of one incomplete sentence that in most cases contained no information, had nothing to do with the thread, usually to single out her favorites for complimentary drivel in every single thread every two or three postings be something to praise and admire?

    What? Did she cast a spell on you? Someone tell me, do you actually miss this and if so, why.

    In its own way, it is just as oppressive as active name calling and insults only sneaky.

    There is a post on Nexus where you see Celine can write in complete sentences, complete paragraphs, and in ordered thought while defending her part in the blowup. She is perfectly capable of direct communication and now I am mad that over HERE I was subjected to that LAZY continuous drivel.

    Sierra stomping off to breathe again dammit

    --EDIT--

    THIS is the source of my making cracks about "reaaaaalllllll mennnnnn" and heaving bosoms. I'll stop making the cracks now.

    --END EDIT--
    Last edited by Sierra; 26th April 2011 at 04:26.

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    Avalon Member Inelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integrity

    Quote Posted by Aldous (here)

    Inelia, I think it's pretty clear that Charles was referring to his group of 18. Are you honestly saying Bill was completely unaware of this with the multitudes of threads and posts pertaining to the subject? [mod-edit: text deleted - see my mod-edit, above. - Paul. ]
    Yup. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying, Bill knew nothing of the 18. I take Bill at his word. He is my friend, and someone I respect and trust. I would ask you the same as you are doing for your friend, stop slandering Bill's reputation. You are implying that Bill was lying, he was not.
    Last edited by Paul; 26th April 2011 at 07:48.
    I'm allergic to seriousness

    The Purpose of Life

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