Magna Cartas and stuff

[Isostool]

Modwiz has had his subscription terminated. I will miss his company in threads. I do not have complete information on the details and judgments surrounding his departure, but I wish I did. I dearly hope that it was not for things which are not justly claimed. Because if Modwiz has been judged unworthy of being a member of Avalon for things he has done, said, thought outside of this site, this makes for an ugly precedent - for this leaves the door open for any one of us to be judged for anything anywhere in any way by those who decide such things here, in regards to our worthiness.

And that is not a healthy scope to have in regards to membership requirements, for it encroaches upon personal liberties and privacy - and it leaves too wide a scope for those whose opinions are already marginal in comparison to whatever is considered the status quo in such a system, to be persecuted unjustly. Good laws and rules should come before the tempestuous whims of the heart, unless the heart is so wise as to need no temperance.

Modwiz; the place will not be the same without you.

- Equality before the law - [And having one. And upholding it.]

[Jendayi]

modwiz.... i am left in silence...

[shijo]

i never chatted with the man but i appreciated his posts a great deal.

[Isostool]

Goldenyears too, has been unsubscribed but I am aware of even less details of her case than modwiz's.

[Chicodoodoo]

This is not a good sign. I am not convinced the power to "unsubscribe" members is being used properly. It would appear that anyone can "disappear" for no apparent reason. I just suggested on Bill Ryan's "Integrity" thread that "dismissed" Avalon members be given the opportunity to post their last words before their departure in a special thread devoted to that purpose. In the past, I have also suggested a "three strikes" policy before anyone is permanently banned. Sometimes a short cooling off period is all that is required. Too many valuable Avalon members have been lost. I've only seen respectful behavior from Modwiz on this forum, so I am completely surprised that he is unsubscribed.

No, this does not bode well for Avalon.

If I should disappear, rest assured that it was not suicide.

[karelia]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
<snip> I've only seen respectful behavior from Modwiz on this forum, so I am completely surprised that he is unsubscribed.

The emphasis being on this forum. This is what I believe the Integrity post is all about. Walk the talk everywhere, not just in this forum. If you don't walk the talk everywhere you go, you lose trust very fast. If I visit a friend and mingle with his other friends and pretend to be friends with all, in his home, and then I go out for a walk and b*tch about my friend's other friends, and loud enough for him to hear, then it's a logical conclusion that my host friend will quit the friendship, no? I know I would, and have done. It doesn't mean there are any hard feelings, it's just that I don't want to associate with that kind of energy, so I walk away. Quite simple.

[Isostool]

Posted by karelia (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
<snip> I've only seen respectful behavior from Modwiz on this forum, so I am completely surprised that he is unsubscribed.

The emphasis being on this forum. This is what I believe the Integrity post is all about. Walk the talk everywhere, not just in this forum. If you don't walk the talk everywhere you go, you lose trust very fast. If I visit a friend and mingle with his other friends and pretend to be friends with all, in his home, and then I go out for a walk and b*tch about my friend's other friends, and loud enough for him to hear, then it's a logical conclusion that my host friend will quit the friendship, no? I know I would, and have done. It doesn't mean there are any hard feelings, it's just that I don't want to associate with that kind of energy, so I walk away. Quite simple.

But Modwiz was not *pretending* to like Inelia on this forum. He was not being two faced.

In Bill's first post on the Integrity thread, he states that members are allowed to write whatever they like in the rest of the internet but just not here. Modwiz spoke his mind elsewhere, and like chicodoodoo I have never observed any behaviour by him on this forum which would warrent his dismissal.

And I also agree that it is not a good sign... Fairness, equity and temperance find themselves lacking here, and truly they should not be.

[qbeac]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
This is not a good sign. I am not convinced the power to "unsubscribe" members is being used properly. It would appear that anyone can "disappear" for no apparent reason. I just suggested on Bill Ryan's "Integrity" thread that "dismissed" Avalon members be given the opportunity to post their last words before their departure in a special thread devoted to that purpose. In the past, I have also suggested a "three strikes" policy before anyone is permanently banned. Sometimes a short cooling off period is all that is required. Too many valuable Avalon members have been lost. I've only seen respectful behavior from Modwiz on this forum, so I am completely surprised that he is unsubscribed.

No, this does not bode well for Avalon.

If I should disappear, rest assured that it was not suicide.

I totally agree with Chicodoodoo

I think that unsubscribing a member should be the last resort, and after all other options have been tried and failed. Also, in case the mods unsubscribe a member, the mods should give a VERY good and reasonable explanation of why they did so.

For instance, if it is because that member said “something in particular”, please, show it to us, show us the post/s where that member did/said such thing so that we can see it.

And please, don’t be vague or ambiguous, but precise and concrete:

What did that member exactly say/do that was against the forum rules or guidelines? Please, show us the post where he said/did that.

So, is there a really good explanation for unsubscribing these two members: Modwiz and Goldenyears?

(Note: I will add two other cases of unsubscribed members that have never been properly clarified: WhiteStar and Lee-B, and that, in my personal opinion, where big injustices)

If there is good explanation for unsubscribing them, please, show it to us, let’s hear it, but in the open (publicly), not by PM where things can remain hidden from the rest of us. For a hidden and occult dynamic we already have MSM (Mainstream Media), the corrupt military factions, the corrupt elite (shadowy government), etc.

Otherwise, and in case anybody uses extreme methods to get rid of people or opinions, runs the risk of sliding into censorship, abuses of power, crushing dissent, etc.

And I don’t know about the rest of you, but if that was the case (and we should clarify if it is or not), that would be the opposite spirit than the one I have been defending about Project Camelot and Project Avalon during the past 3 years.

In other words, I wouldn’t have defended and supported PC and PA during 3 years (as I have done) if it wasn’t because I believe they both support the spirit of integrity, liberty, openness, tolerance, respect, accepting different points of view, accepting and even welcoming healthy criticism, etc.

So, was I right or wrong by supporting PC and PA during the past 3 years? I’d like to know.

[Jendayi]

integrity??? if people like modwiz can be banned for speaking their minds... then what about the rest of us?
i was so happy when i joined avalon... i just left some other forums.. deleted all my social network pages.. and came to avalon.. modwiz was one of the first people i befriended and i have the utmost respect for him.. his comments have been insightful, warm and really funny at times.. i have seen people conduct horrible behaviour on avalon yet, they are still here as other people who actually had something useful to say have been unsubscribed... is this an upside down world or what?
and then we have the whole "walk the talk" retoric.. oh please...
no one on this planet is able to 'walk the talk" 24/7... we are all prone to gossip, bad-mouthing or lying once in a while, it's part of the human experience... people should really get over themselves and stop being so friggin' righteous all the time.. be honest!!! only truth will persevere in the end... damn it people... what is going on here?
avalon is turning out to be something i did not expect...
sorry for this emotional outburst.. (in the spirit of honesty i will post this anyway and invite anyone who knows more about this to start sharing, members, mods and founder(s) alike)
this is the time of reckoning.. no more secrets, no more lies... tell us why all of this is happening.. let's stop beating around the bush, shall we?
i case i ever get unsubscribed myself, i would like to take the opportunity to give you all a big hug and say that i am learning a lot here.... thank you for allowing me the space to express myself..
i love you all..
Jendayi

[Isostool]

Nice Post Jendai.

Yeah. There has not been a fairness in regards to who has been unsubbed and why and who has been allowed to stay, even just in the time I have been observing the forum.

Integrity can be a relative thing in that one man acting in integrity can be abhorrent to another, as it is that it is relative to the observer, in their truth, genuinely.

So now, regardless of the fact that you would or wouldn't do it: say anything a member on here might find offensive, somewhere other than Avalon (anywhere infact), how do people feel about having everything you say outside of here come under the jurisdiction of Avalon's "Are you fit to be a member" appraisal team?

Since when is Nexus Avalon's jurisdiction? Oh but you can then say "we don't have laws like that around here, we is going by universal laws" Oh really.

Once that line has been crossed, in cancelling someone's subscription for things said outside of Avalon, it means something in concept. This evidence has been allowed to be admissible. It means something to your sovereignty. It means something about the governing system this little internet city state is having for itself. It means that if your integrity, in what it is that you see as truth is contrary to Bills or Inelia's or whoever else might ask Bill that someone be unsubbed for something that they find disagreeable to their heart or mind, and you speak it or print it outside of Avalon, ANYWHERE that they may find it in their presence, then YOU TOO are liable to be unsubscribed.

And this is bigger than a house. It is a mini city state to itself, and we are all residents. The house analogy is far too quaint and small a shell for this place.

So that their jurisdiction reaches right into and over your life. And it is a Forum, not God. So what gives it that right? we do? And so are we comfortable as citizens in saying that that's alright, you can have that jurisdiction over our lives? Potential it may only be, but real potential is it, and its first stone has indeed been cast, its precedent, its loud advocation, by the governance of Avalon. God has that right because that which is "god" is perfect; man may not have that one, cos he's not. Unless you are, in which case you'd already have my loyalty.

Oh but it's alright, we can say: there is no real offence, we are but travellers on different roads, with different missions etc. This may be a pretty way to dress it up, but the truth is somewhat closer to the bone. Good quality posters like Modwiz? To be removed for the sake of squalls, as impermanent as a finger smudge free mirror? That is just crap.

[Isostool]

Wow, After catching up with this thread; http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showt...-my-membership
(I am sometimes a bit slow!!!), not only is it Modwiz and Goldenyears, but also Lightblue.

All unsubscribed for being not much more than members of Nexus, as well as Avalon. Just quietly told they were not longer acceptable and that they should go to where they will find sympathy for their beliefs and ways of being.

For no good reason. No just reason... witchhunt dressed up as an integrity cleansing. This is a great transgression against Justice and Beauty, against creativity and freedom and against people who have done nothing wrong. And were both enjoyed as members of this community and enjoying of their fellow Avalonian citizens. To be deprived of this for the reasons I have seen offered is just not solid in its rightness.

I went back and read Goldenyears' posts on Nexus. She disagreed with Bill. She was not abusive. Her viewpoint was in opposition to Bill's viewpoint. That's all. She was not snide. So it is not about what a person says that gets them banned, nor about the way they say it, but who they say it about? How is this equality in motion? I will say that it appears that it isn't.

[TigerLilly]

Posted by Isostool (here)
Nice Post Jendai.

Yeah. There has not been a fairness in regards to who has been unsubbed and why and who has been allowed to stay, even just in the time I have been observing the forum.

Integrity can be a relative thing in that one man acting in integrity can be abhorrent to another, as it is that it is relative to the observer, in their truth, genuinely.

So now, regardless of the fact that you would or wouldn't do it: say anything a member on here might find offensive, somewhere other than Avalon (anywhere infact), how do people feel about having everything you say outside of here come under the jurisdiction of Avalon's "Are you fit to be a member" appraisal team?

Since when is Nexus Avalon's jurisdiction? Oh but you can then say "we don't have laws like that around here, we is going by universal laws" Oh really.

Once that line has been crossed, in cancelling someone's subscription for things said outside of Avalon, it means something in concept. This evidence has been allowed to be admissible. It means something to your sovereignty. It means something about the governing system this little internet city state is having for itself. It means that if your integrity, in what it is that you see as truth is contrary to Bills or Inelia's or whoever else might ask Bill that someone be unsubbed for something that they find disagreeable to their heart or mind, and you speak it or print it outside of Avalon, ANYWHERE that they may find it in their presence, then YOU TOO are liable to be unsubscribed.

And this is bigger than a house. It is a mini city state to itself, and we are all residents. The house analogy is far too quaint and small a shell for this place.

So that their jurisdiction reaches right into and over your life. And it is a Forum, not God. So what gives it that right? we do? And so are we comfortable as citizens in saying that that's alright, you can have that jurisdiction over our lives? Potential it may only be, but real potential is it, and its first stone has indeed been cast, its precedent, its loud advocation, by the governance of Avalon. God has that right because that which is "god" is perfect; man may not have that one, cos he's not. Unless you are, in which case you'd already have my loyalty.

Oh but it's alright, we can say: there is no real offence, we are but travellers on different roads, with different missions etc. This may be a pretty way to dress it up, but the truth is somewhat closer to the bone. Good quality posters like Modwiz? To be removed for the sake of squalls, as impermanent as a finger smudge free mirror? That is just crap.

Well said Isostool.
A forum is not a house and is only as good as its current members.

We the members would be lacking in integrity if we did not speak up, out of fear of being "retired" ourselves, when we see such injustice!

[DeDukshyn]

Unlike everyone else here, I am not aware of all the details, past happenings, relationships, or the current reasoning behind Modwiz unsubbing, but I will say that I'll miss his smart ass sense of humour.... he was always good for adding a bit of flair.

[9eagle9]

This appears to be an on going symptom. The symptom being the suspension or voluntary leave of members is not the actual problem.

The underlying issue ......maybe a bit harder to ID, it has probably folded over on itself and transistioned to the point that every time it pops up again it appears to be something different but is still the original issue.

So what it is the core issue here that allows these tensions to burble up to the extent that members are either voluntarily leaving or suspended?

The problem is without form but people sense its there and its frustrating not to be able to bring it into the physical where it can be examined.

I'd have to state the obvious. We are not conventional people, this is not a conventional forum. We aren't discussing DIY projects and venison recipes we are delving into unknowns and that creates its own unique problems, drawns in a certain undesireable and unwanted element. Unknown quantitative cannot be addressed with known means, any more than unconventional people can be dealt with conventional means. And when dealing with the unknown we run the risk of overlooking the offenders and inadvertently punishing the innocent. Because we don't know.

[Mike]

frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"? this issue of where an insult or attack on character occurs and it's resulting relevance is pointless. if i had a friend that i was hanging around with being two-faced or stabbing me in the back, i wouldn't give a sh#t if he was doing it in the cellar of his house or in Timbuktu. you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but back-stabbing is back-stabbing, regardless of where it occurs.

modwiz was a solid contributor, yes. but go read that thread. he continually accuses Inelia of being a phony but offers no explanation whatsoever. over here he says something to the effect of feeling a powerful presence from her photo. over there he's singing a different tune. over here he's referencing her posts and encouraging other members to read them. over there,again, he's singing a different tune. (now i notice-in an effort to cover his tracks- he has invented some cockamamie excuse as to why he encouraged members to read her posts).

not only that, he accused Bill of exploiting Inelia- the "flavor of the month"- calling it a phony "promotion", and "creepy", implying Bill is some sort of snake oil salesman. he even likened him to P.T. Barnum, the promoter of hoaxes. he thanked a Celine post referring to Bill as a "fraud" and accused him of "peddling snake oil".

if i didn't know any better, i would have thought he was trying to get booted.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"? this issue of where an insult or attack on character occurs and it's resulting relevance is pointless. if i had a friend that i was hanging around with being two-faced or stabbing me in the back, i wouldn't give a sh#t if he was doing it in the cellar of his house or in Timbuktu. you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but back-stabbing is back-stabbing, regardless of where it occurs.

modwiz was a solid contributor, yes. but go read that thread. he continually accuses Inelia of being a phony but offers no explanation whatsoever. over here he says something to the effect of feeling a powerful presence from her photo. over there he's singing a different tune. over here he's referencing her posts and encouraging other members to read them. over there,again, he's singing a different tune. (now i notice-in an effort to cover his tracks- he has invented some cockamamie excuse as to why he encouraged members to read her posts).

not only that, he accused Bill of exploiting Inelia- the "flavor of the month"- calling it a phony "promotion", and "creepy", implying Bill is some sort of snake oil salesman. he even likened him to P.T. Barnum, the promoter of hoaxes. he thanked a Celine post referring to Bill as a "fraud" and accused him of "peddling snake oil".

if i didn't know any better, i would have thought he was trying to get booted.

I agree with your statement, I don't necessarily disagree with Bill's decision either, because I don't know ALL the details, the rationale, and like everyone else I would be a fool to assume I did. But in Modwiz' defense, and critique -- he had a stance such as that you had to know where he was coming from. I wasn't a "friend" of his but I did notice he liked to provoke thought through antagonism - which in itself isn't bad at all - I do it as well somewhat. But I also know that that carries risk and has to still be carried out with respect to any other member implicated. I don't know the posts which you are referring to, but I do know Inelia and her message is likely even a greater reason that the "crowd" was brought in by "Atticus", than for even his own intentions -- Process is goal, there are no coincidences, whether "good" or "evil", there are none.

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
frankly i cannot understand the indignation here.

Remember the little boy that had the innocent audacity to point out that the emperor had no clothes? Is that back-stabbing? I'm sure the emperor thought so, but the crowd that was freed from its delusion by that single remark might disagree.

[Isostool]

Ladies and Gents of Avalon,

This is a heartfelt effort from me at addressing the issue. It is a difficult area for many reasons, and it is an effort to shed some light on the subject. I have done my best but no it's not the frikkin' Magna Carta - just one Ladies thoughts. alright? alright. Danger money at least, please.

Integrity is about being true to self. Having an integrity cleansing [a spiritual cleansing, a negativity cleansing, an can we please remove what the cat's dragged in [dressed up as Karmic cycle placing in correct new boxes, if you believe in that kind of sit - as judged by man, that is], call it what u will, I think we all have a grasp and sense at what it being suggested] at Avalon, as inferred in Limor's post to Goldenyears, is therefore about a program now focussing on a group of people deciding if they think a person is being true to self or not? And if they decide that they are not then they are deemed not fit for this community? This seriously enters into the territory of what is rightly only dwelling between a man and his god, a man and himself - is it right that a group of others sit in judgement of this and then use this judgement to deem us worth of this community or not?

And then to cut people off from their friends and community here by way of this, as a form of punishment for their sins? But not said as such, just dressed up as "just your vibration fits somewhere else" - and it IS a punishment - BECAUSE IT HURTS. Avalon has a responsibility to not hurt its members more than the other way around - why? Because Avalon is the bigger being in that it can absorb more debt - to take it out on beings less able to absorb the loss is - it is ignoble. It is wrong in the case of loving that which is less able to defend itself. It is not the chivalrous act and I would argue it is not in alignment with the most beneficial version of spiritual law either.

It is Avalon's responsibility, as the collective 'bigger being' here, I would argue, to embrace the unlovable and to create the reality of non separation. When you hold upon your shoulders your enemies you become untouchable. Continually ridding the system of a perceived problem is hurting innocent people and not fixing the real problem. This is a continuing issue at Avalon. In this case it is wise to embrace your enemies and accept them, not to try to wash off a thing that will not come off - the problem is with internal structure, system design, not the 'member people parts'.

The kind of laws (such as rules for exclusion/ i.e. a form of punishment and this IS a form of punishment, it is an act of severance) which are suitable for the management of the amount of people who can fit into a single person's living room in either reality or concept are just NOT suitable for the just governance of the amount of people who constitute a whole community. i.e. the idea of ruling this like a house, one person's personal living room, is not a big enough a management concept for this size system.

A smaller group of people can work well with either a monarchy or a tribal "big man" system [an 'this is my house' arrangement and a true anthropological term btw], but when the community gets to the size Avalon is now, this form of management just won't cut the mustard. There is far too much complexity and motion for one person's living room to suffice. Either Avalon had to remain at a small membership - much smaller than it is now - or the system of governance has to change.

Having fair laws which protect the citizens rights here, through storms of heart and judgement, which may come and go in the management system's human world, anyone's world, are in Avalon's best interests, I say. It protects the body of Avalon so that unwise things cannot happen which are not properly thought through or based on false premises during times in which a human system might be prone to err. This place is made up of the members. It is a partnership between he who owns this land (Bill) and the citizens, and this power must find its stability and equity, - where it works in the best interests of keeping the body which is Avalon healthy.

The parallel I have drawn with this threads title is from the time in English History from which the King Arthur legends are drawn [some people differ on this, but most agree] - From the Avingian rule of England of Henry II [plantagenet, ruled as King of England 1154–1189] and Eleanor of Aquitaine and two of their sons: King John and King Richard I, Richard the Lionheart. In order that the Monarch not have the power to rule the land upon his whim alone, King John [Ruled: 199-1216] was compelled to sign the Magna Carta - forcibly compelled, because he was a bit of git. It meant that the Monarch had to answer to the law as well. His grandfather Henry I was responsible for bringing England under good law in general and the the law itself came back upon his [incompetent - he lost the majority of his grandmother's and grandfather's kingdom] grandson to ensure that the law itself was universally respected. Kind of cool..

There is a kind of natural evolution to state formation which occurs in the world, in humankind. As population grows, as the intelligence of the populace grows, as the complexity grows - new ways of managing this system have to evolve and start moving the system forward. The process can be difficult or easy. Realising some of what is going on is a good start. If a system refuses to evolve, refuses to reform, then nature either breaks it roughly and bumpily into Tyranny as in Ancient Greece (in its original form Tyranny was actually very beneficial to the states which implemented it - it is only a some which gave it a bad name), which then became Democracy or Oligarchy (rule by the rich). Or the system stagnates (like China) and falls prey to more sophisticated systems. Some might like to say that China has found its way eventually, but I do disagree. And so do the babies forced to drink baby formula boosted with plastic powder to increase profits or perhaps the ones [the babies] made into the local delicacy "healthy soup", might also find their system somewhat backwards [look it up, I kid you not]...

A system either changes or dies. it is a hard rule of evolution, that one. Spirituality is there to serve the physical and to bow low so that it [the physical] may hoist itself up upon our backs in [our] servitude and deep love for our beloved who cannot do something for themselves for innocent reasons amany. In other words, we are the servant of that which is physical - and without us serving to change that which about us is physical what rights do we have to leave it behind? Conceptually? Actually? And in serving it, we would not wish to leave it behind for indeed it is an impossibility, for we are irrimovably that which of us which is physical [please read sentence again slowly... lol.. I promise it makes sense!! and yes sorry I make up words]. Natural selection is not an illusion of acadaemia. It is something that we may not leave behind, even though it is such a daemon of a sword, if it is that you understand it as that which is the irrimovably physical of you. You don't seek to change the unchangeable, you know it as the immovable axiom of omniversal creation and move around IT. or something like that. lol. And it can repel in the deepest of senses without even being detected. And it is the lightest just before the darkness of its solid anchored core - but in unification there is no separation.

If the laws at Avalon are inconsistent, and it does appears that they are, if we are defining integrity as consistency of being then this law code lacks consistency and hence integrity. To clarify: someone may say a criticism of David Wilcock here and of Bill here or of Bill anywhere it would seem and only the person who said it of Bill is questioned in their integrity? So Bill is above David Wilcock in importance then? And then we have the leniency shown to Gypsy Woman - she was abusive as hell and allowed to return. So that the picture we get is an inconsistent one. Not that personal differences and conditions should not be taken into account - they should - but still the picture is not ringing as a consistent one.

Also, I would call for Goldenyears, Modwiz, Lightblue, Nagual, and aroundthetable to be given back their membership rights. In an act of humility and goodwill.

I ask that there be a motion for humility to come sit for a while in the place that sits in moderation of Avalon. Who are we, fellow people, to judge what and what is not integrity to another human being? Who can say for sure that they know if another person they read or perceive or have evidence before them on is in THEIR truth or not. For if they are and you still judge them as not having integrity are you then saying that indeed they ARE in their integrity but that they are just not in an integrity that suits you?

For purely an example among many that I could present to paint a conceptual picture; A good father may tell their little girl that no everything is alright, that is not an army at the threshold of our country (but there is) so that she stays feeling safe. A person may withhold knowledge of many different forms or natures, depending on the people, the place... and readiness for the information to be loved. Or not. All sorts of layers of the agenda of the one motion of the highest most healthy continuance of life may be found around us. What you judge as two faced may indeed be your own inability to see into a level of difficult polarity integration which another being may have mastered and be comfortable living (for eg.) - or in the process of mastering (and surely this difficult spiritual process should be lovingly held, for it is grand). What I am saying is that to judge it from your experiences is calling for a breath of humility - how can you truly say you are right and wrong in your judgement? And the consequences are so definite and hurtful to the person cut off from their community.

Avalon is like that for people - it has living energetic connections into people's lives and it hurts to be cut off from it. And those in charge of looking after those connections should make sure that the being with less to defend themself and more to lose - is properly defended and taken care of. I propose that Avalon should treat its subjects with a greater consciousness itself - in this act so let us see it become Grand - the entire consciousness of it shall rise.

These are my thoughts on it. I ask that I be allowed to remain here for I feel right here. It is not my wish to leave Avalon, it never has and as far as I can see it, it never will be. Thank you for listening.

The Lady who Sits [lol]

[qbeac]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
frankly i cannot understand the indignation here.

Remember the little boy that had the innocent audacity to point out that the emperor had no clothes? Is that back-stabbing? I'm sure the emperor thought so, but the crowd that was freed from its delusion by that single remark might disagree.

I totally agree one more time with Chicodoodoo,

I must clarify that I have not been following what has happened with Modwiz and Goldenyears, so I have no idea of what they have said/done or not said/done. I’ve read in previous posts in this thread that some people think Modwiz has done something wrong, but Goldenyears hasn’t… but I don’t know.

In any case, the point I tried to make with my last post is this one:

Please, Bill and mods, let us know what those two persons have specifically done so that we can form our own judgment of the situation, instead of relying on your judgment (Bill Ryan and mods).

Because the expression “back-stabbing” Chinaski has used is only a figurative language expression which, as Chicodoodoo has very well pointed out, could be interpreted in very different ways (Ex: a just action or an abuse of power, censorship, etc.) according to who does the interpretation and why (Ex: the emperor, the innocent child, the rest of the people, etc.).

(Note: see last post of Chicodoodoo about the “emperor had no clothes” for more details).

So, please, Bill and mods, could you show us what those two persons (Modwiz and Goldenyears) have exactly done that goes against the Avalon rules and guidelines and which is as grave as to deserve a permanent banning?

Could you show us the exact posts where they said/did this or that? Please, give us a clear example of those posts.

If those posts exist and they are so obvious to see, we all should be able to see them, shouldn’t we?

Thanks.

P.S. And I will also add the cases of WhiteStar and Lee-Be, whose banning, in my opinion, could be argued that it was an injustice (that’s at least my personal opinion) and, as far as I know (and I don’t know if I’ve missed something) were never properly clarified.

And I think that lack of clarification (which has happened several times in this forum) is the reason why some people may feel upset about the current banning.

Let’s hope that lack of clarification doesn’t happen in this case again.

[Lord Sidious]

Before we all go making assumptions about what Limor has said and/done, why not pm her and ask her yourselves?
It would probably save a lot of grief.