Forgiveness

[kinerkid]

I'd like to start a discussion on forgiveness. What enables you to forgive? What perimeters do you place on it? What does forgiveness mean to you?

[loveandgratitude]

Always forgive your enemies - Nothing annoys them so much. ONLY JOKING (partially)

[ThePythonicCow]

Forgiveness depends at least on the underlying injustice no longer being perpetuated.

[jookyle]

"I'm not big on forgiveness. My enemies are my enemies for a reason"

[Anchor]

First try to answer the question about why you want to forgive in the first place.

Life is about experience, some of that ongoing cause and effect has consequences that linger in many formats for too long!

At some point recognition of the futility of allowing the remnants of artifacts from situations long past are worth cleaning up as they serve no further useful purpose and therefore act as a blockage - a kind of useless detritus that impedes further progress.

One cannot turn back the clock and simply undo what one subsequently appreciates should not have been done.

Recognition of that, in the moment of the recognition - creates the necessity for forgiveness.

Forgiveness stops the wheel of Karma - but there is a catch - mutual forgiveness of the self and the otherselves involved is a primary importance.

Forgiveness is hard to start with, but it gets easier, because as we move though these cycles of experience, we begin to master what it within us that resists the process.

I hope that is helpful.

Forgiveness is essential.

For some other perspectives I refer you to an archived thread from the predecessor of this forum that was started by illuminate, a shining star among us - who has not posted here for some time, but nevertheless, one from whom every post counted.

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19500

John..

[kinerkid]

Posted by Paul (here)
Forgiveness depends at least on the underlying injustice no longer being perpetuated.

Thanks for your response. I disagree actually. To me, forgiveness is something I do regardless of whether or not the other party offers it, makes amends, or changes their ways. It's something I do because in that action I find healing. I haven't found it helpful in life to say "I'll only forgive you if...."

[astrid]

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

- Gandhi

[Sowelu]

To ask for forgiveness one must be genuine.
Willing to admit that their actions (whatever they may be) (however they may have harmed) were wrong, Willing to swallow pride/ego thoughts and not try to word things half-heartedly
but also be willing to alter future behavoir to ensure it doesn't happen again.
Repeating the same hurtful actions voids the initial apology.

Also The apologizing/forgiving must be limited to those actually involved in the situation.
While it is nice to have friends who are on your frequency
having them fight battles for you, while not initially part of the war
Is disrespectful to both sides. I find it often aggrevates beyond the original "fall-out"
as people begin taking sides when not knowing the whole story,
standing by personal biasts/friendships.

At this time i stand in the middle, it is not my right nor duty to apologize or forgive anyone.
As i recognize this situation had nothing to do with my individual self.
I was sad to see familiar faces leave, but many left because they felt obligated
to stick by one side. Fighting battles that were not theirs.
If there are those who wish to return to avalon or even just make peace between sites, perhaps they should first remove mean posts/threads in other places and pm the person (or persons) they offended and offer a personalized true to heart apology.

I would like to see the genuine apologies happen. i would like to see unity,
but this isn't up to me as this is not my battle.
Thankyou

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by kinerkid (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
Forgiveness depends at least on the underlying injustice no longer being perpetuated.

Thanks for your response. I disagree actually. To me, forgiveness is something I do regardless of whether or not the other party offers it, makes amends, or changes their ways. It's something I do because in that action I find healing. I haven't found it helpful in life to say "I'll only forgive you if...."

That you may well offer. You might forgive those who are harming you, even as they continue to do so.

But it would be suspicious for those who continue to harm you to ask for forgiveness, by way of covering up their continuing harm to you.

[loveandgratitude]

I think the key words in Paul's statement is "NO LONGER BEING PERPETUATED"

It is very hard to forgive someone who continually punches you in the nose. If you ask them to stop, one can move on to forgiving and healing. If they do not stop, you cannot heal as you are continually bleeding all over the place.

[Normalguy31]

Forgiveness is the key to healing yourself.

Forgiveness is what causes peace internally first, so then you may be able to help someone else forgive themselves on their journey to peace. IMO.

Forgiveness is hard to do, you have to admit that you have done something wrong. Taking that wrong, and learning from it is forgiveness.

This could be the hardest thing to do in this little ride called life. The ego is a tricky bastard sometimes

I hope the slander at nexus, whatever it may be I haven't checked it out, will be taken off so we can move on, and continue to grow again.

Then the healing choir we all yearn for may be allowed to continue. This is my wish anyways.....

Much love to all, lets get on with the fun in the forums again!

Forgive, and forget that is the key

[kinerkid]

Posted by Anchor (here)

Forgiveness stops the wheel of Karma - but there is a catch - mutual forgiveness of the self and the otherselves involved is a primary importance.

Forgiveness is hard to start with, but it gets easier, because as we move though these cycles of experience, we begin to master what it within us that resists the process.

I hope that is helpful.

Forgiveness is essential.

For some other perspectives I refer you to an archived thread from the predecessor of this forum that was started by illuminate, a shining star among us - who has not posted here for some time, but nevertheless, one from whom every post counted.

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19500

John..

Thanks so much John! I find this post very inspiring.

[Normalguy31]

Posted by kinerkid (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
Forgiveness depends at least on the underlying injustice no longer being perpetuated.

Thanks for your response. I disagree actually. To me, forgiveness is something I do regardless of whether or not the other party offers it, makes amends, or changes their ways. It's something I do because in that action I find healing. I haven't found it helpful in life to say "I'll only forgive you if...."

Beautiful answer, I feel the exact same way. Even as hard as it is to do.

[astrid]

Forgiveness also doesn't mean the you condone the behaviour, that's what people often
fail to grasp. I really like Greg Braden's take on this subject.

He helped me so much with my own road to forgiveness.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bt2D53UYI4k

[kinerkid]

Posted by Normalguy31 (here)
Forgiveness is the key to healing yourself.

Forgiveness is what causes peace internally first, so then you may be able to help someone else forgive themselves on their journey to peace. IMO.

Forgiveness is hard to do, you have to admit that you have done something wrong. Taking that wrong, and learning from it is forgiveness.

This could be the hardest thing to do in this little ride called life. The ego is a tricky bastard sometimes

I hope the slander at nexus, whatever it may be I haven't checked it out, will be taken off so we can move on, and continue to grow again.

Then the healing choir we all yearn for may be allowed to continue. This is my wish anyways.....

Much love to all, lets get on with the fun in the forums again!

Forgive, and forget that is the key

One step at a time. Forgiveness is a journey just like all else.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Normalguy31 (here)
Beautiful answer, I feel the exact same way. Even as hard as it is to do.

If you are spiritually stronger than I am, you may well be able to forgive, even as the injustice continues against you.

But it would be disingenuous for me to ask for forgiveness as a distraction from my continued injustice toward you. And it would further be disingenuous for someone else to get you to ask for that forgiveness, as a distraction from their continued injustice that they were perpetrating.

[Normalguy31]

Posted by kinerkid (here)

Posted by Normalguy31 (here)
Forgiveness is the key to healing yourself.

Forgiveness is what causes peace internally first, so then you may be able to help someone else forgive themselves on their journey to peace. IMO.

Forgiveness is hard to do, you have to admit that you have done something wrong. Taking that wrong, and learning from it is forgiveness.

This could be the hardest thing to do in this little ride called life. The ego is a tricky bastard sometimes

I hope the slander at nexus, whatever it may be I haven't checked it out, will be taken off so we can move on, and continue to grow again.

Then the healing choir we all yearn for may be allowed to continue. This is my wish anyways.....

Much love to all, lets get on with the fun in the forums again!

Forgive, and forget that is the key

One step at a time. Forgiveness is a journey just like all else.

Very true, seems like we have hit a pretty serious rut in our pathway though. What's the next step? Have any members here, that are members at nexus asked for these things to be taken away? That is a practical first step I think. Just making suggestions, take them for what you will.

[Teakai]

I really love the saying about forgiveness which goes - "To not forgive someone is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die."

Or something like that

[Normalguy31]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Normalguy31 (here)
Beautiful answer, I feel the exact same way. Even as hard as it is to do.

If you are spiritually stronger than I am, you may well be able to forgive, even as the injustice continues against you.

But it would be disingenuous for me to ask for forgiveness as a distraction from my continued injustice toward you. And it would further be disingenuous for someone else to get you to ask for that forgiveness, as a distraction from their continued injustice that they were perpetrating.

I wish I knew how you felt. Being in the position you are in it is a little easier for me to say that than you, I am sure. What can we do? Have there been any response from nexus about taking these posts down?

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Normalguy31 (here)
I wish I knew how you felt. Being in the position you are in it is a little easier for me to say that than you, I am sure. What can we do? Have there been any response from nexus about taking these posts down?

As I stated in my closing posts:

There presently resides, in public view, on the nexus.2012info.ca website, defamation (slander and libel) of Bill Ryan, Inelia Benz, and Project Avalon.

These individuals and this website value their public reputation, and rightfully so.

This defamation needs to be removed from public view.