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Thread: Forgiveness

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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Paul and Dennis, I'm a little late to this thread, having been out of town for a while. First thing that comes to mind is how do you have the time to moderate here and read all the stuff at Nexus too?

    I'm not sure who said it but I do agree: to ask for changes to be made on another forum is one thing, but to expect that to be heeded is quite another. It seems to me to be an issue of control, that really you as a PA moderator have no say in. About the slander, etc. against Bill and Inelia, etc. I've not read it, so I can't agree or disagree. But truly all is as it is meant to be for each of us to work through our own personal issues, including Bill and Inelia.

    Paul I believe you stated that there was a dark 3rd party (a group perhaps) involved in this endeavor and if that is the case, then what they intended to accomplish, to divide and separate, has been achieved. Why add fuel to that flame? Those on the other forum who are indeed wise beings (and I'm sure there are many), who also want peace and harmony, will see this and do their part to have that be so, whether communicating on Nexus or PA. Speaking from personal experience, that desire (for love, peace and harmony) is not so easily deterred regardless of those who might wish or act to have that be so.

    Opening the closed threads may not even be the issue as much as being willing to let go of what has already happened, allow Bill and Inelia to defend themselves, if they feel it is necessary, and instead come back to what PA is intended to do (IMHO)...provide a place for like minded people to express an alternative view of a world that is a kinder, gentler, and a more supportive place for all who wish to expand their consciousness...for the good of all.

    I respect and admire your efforts to change what is to what you prefer it to be, but what is done is done. To leave it for all to see and therefore allow one to be able to look within oneself to find one's truth, is that not a better way to honor the wholeness of what we are?

    At one point as I was reading some of this thread the song by George Harrison came to mind...you sue me and I'll sue you. And I ask, to what end?

    With genuine love and respect to all,

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  3. Link to Post #122
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy;210776
    I truly believe you are wrong about this, and I believe that you can prove it to yourself by going and reading a bit at Nexus. I noted several people that are actively trying, member to member within Nexus, to make a positive transformation. [B

    I saw one member that said he had personally gone back over 5 of his posts and removed what he felt was over-the top. And, he was asking, publicly, for others to do the same. I also saw a member of Nexus that recently lost his posting privileges at Avalon, and who is still upset about it, but who had the personal integrity to come to Inelia's defense[/B], reminding people that they have gone hyperbolic in attempting to defame her, and asking people to back off. I was moved by that. It would have been very easy for that person to smolder and to be vindictive, but he showed personal integrity in the face of strong negativity.

    I believe there is a sense within just a few of the Nexus members that they are in a protected bunker from which they can fire as a sniper, confusing freedom of speech with the freedom to slander, but I see other members with cooler heads and warmer hearts moving forward to lead the way toward civil discourse.

    Do not dismiss the higher-energy work that was done by the members that came here to look for forgiveness and reconciliation. They have unleashed powerful, positive, magical energy. They may not have come from a position of "official authority" within the Nexus structure, but what a great example of regular folks, like you and me, taking the reins, and creating the change. Give them a little bit of time to work their magic.

    Dennis
    Great, on this we agree. The bold I put in your text is precisely why blocking their very heartful choir thread was not needed. The work was pretty much already done (in the ether, coming right after in 3D) thanks to their opening (those who posted on the choir thread).

    It is good that some are taking off from their own their harmful posts. It is good that things are turning around. Because this is what they want, of their free will.

    Menacing and reacting by cutting off their willfull trial was not necessary, it only made Avalon run the risk of stiffening furthermore on the other side IMHO. Hopefully, this won't happen because this is, in facts, a pretty good bunch.

    Asking them would have been certainly as efficient if not more efficient, once the opening is created.

    OK I betrayed myself and did answer again.

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  5. Link to Post #123
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Deleted post

    Last edited by Steve C; 23rd May 2011 at 16:22.

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  7. Link to Post #124
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    If you have two friends who enter into conflict, it’s only natural that you try and understand both sides of their dispute. You may then decide that one is right and the other wrong, or that both are partially right, or you may end up with an opinion that doesn’t favour either. But listening to and discussing the matter with both does not mean that you are siding with either.

    As has been adequately pointed out by others, we’re all here in the first place (Avalon and/or Nexus, etc) because we decided to look for information and answers elsewhere than the consensual masquerade that passes for the ‘information media.’ From the point of view of the establishment, this may brand some of us as lunatics or traitors, but we know that’s not true – we’re simply trying to widen our capacity for understanding, which will guide us better on our own true path.

    I wish I understood more about forgiveness – there’s one aspect of this discussion that I’d like to mention, however. Let’s not forget that a failure to forgive not only chains you, in the creative conscious, as victim to the hurt you’ve experienced, but also chains the other person to the role of evil-doer. Both need to be freed – we cannot avoid the truth that we are all inescapably linked together, and that we are all responsible for the connections we make and maintain.

    Avalon / Nexus – oh dear me. From the Avalon point of view, apparently harm and slander are being inflicted on the community. From the Nexus point of view, some ex-Avalonians were deeply hurt by what they felt was unfair treatment, and express their distress. The identity of the first stone–thrower is entirely different depending on your point of view. It’s entirely reductive to claim, as some have, that a blinkered form of jingoistic ‘loyalty’ to one side or the other is the only correct stance. That just cements the blockage into place.

    I have no personal stake in the matter, but in case anyone’s interested, it’s easy to look up my stance on the subject – like others, I’ve posted both here and there and will continue to do so as I see fit – and any posts concerning this particular conflict have been and will continue to be posted on both forums.

    Finally, forgiveness – I live in France, and the French word for ‘forgiveness’ is ‘pardon’ – ‘par don’ which translates roughly as ‘by giving’ – my experience with ‘pardon’ is that it is not simply a giving of something vital by one person to another, but that the liberation which ensues, for both, is also a true gift from higher dimensions – it’s an unequivocal gift of love and freedom from a loving universe. How to achieve it? All I can say is that I didn’t do it myself, but I know clearly that my sincere desire to be able to move beyond the conflict that was destroying myself and the other person was the key to the manifestation of forgiveness. It is unconditional.

    As for any vicious and deliberate slander – it’s quite possible that there are ‘moles’ working all over to promote division and distrust, but there are also people who are simply locked into negativity – why not simply ignore it? Demanding the retraction of negativity as a condition for forgiveness is self-defeating – you can not force change on anyone.

    Thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread – I never saw the ‘Healing Choir’ thread, but I’m sure there were many intelligent and loving comments posted there also.

    Best wishes

    Fructedor

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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    I am so happy this was posted at both sites. It is courageous and I commend you. Let the peace begin....(breathing)

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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Forgiveness to me, is giving up the hope that past could've been different so I can be present for today and be there for tomorrow.

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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Thanks Paul. Apology accepted and I see that Dennis and Inelia have also supported you with a thanks. No thanks for any other posts in the thread though, which says it all.

    Sort yourselves out guys, you are ruining this place!

    I will not be posting again, although I wish you all love, peace and joy always and will continue to support and donate to Project Avalon in the future.

    RIGHT! Having heard it from the MODS, here's one from a ROCKER to play me out. Play it loud!!!

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=s5sK_...eature=related

    Linda
    xxxxxxxxxxx

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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Love Jerry Lee!

  16. Link to Post #129
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Quote Posted by w1ndmill (here)
    Thanks Paul. Apology accepted and I see that Dennis and Inelia have also supported you with a thanks. No thanks for any other posts in the thread though, which says it all.

    Sort yourselves out guys, you are ruining this place!

    I will not be posting again, although I wish you all love, peace and joy always and will continue to support and donate to Project Avalon in the future.

    RIGHT! Having heard it from the MODS, here's one from a ROCKER to play me out. Play it loud!!!



    Linda
    xxxxxxxxxxx
    I command thee, enter the light.

    Damn, I just read your post properly.
    Sorry to see you go Linda.
    Be well and stay safe.
    Come back when you want.
    Last edited by Lord Sidious; 4th May 2011 at 15:24.

  17. Link to Post #130
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Quote Posted by Anchor (here)
    For some other perspectives I refer you to an archived thread from the predecessor of this forum that was started by illuminate, a shining star among us - who has not posted here for some time, but nevertheless, one from whom every post counted.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19500


    John..
    Quote illuminate - not only will you be freeing yourself from the pain, you will be doing what
    I think is the greatest thing you could give another person besides
    unconditional love... leading by example.
    As Illuminate's archived quote above states, I too have been working through the issue of forgiving those who perpetuate massive long lasting miasma (a type of pollution). Illuminate describes in her excellent archived post above (thanks Anchor), she was two blocks from the towers on 9/11/2001. We have all been working through applying unconditional love and forgiveness to those who appear to be unlovable. This hasn't been an easy pursuit.

    She also states that the future will hold acts by these same perpetrators that will equal and exceed 9/11. We have recently seen this come to pass. It is difficult for one individual person to forgive such heinousness, but collectively we can accomplish this and by leading by example, we can become that change that we want to see in this world.
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
    Plato

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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  19. Link to Post #131
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    w1indmill
    Quote Sort yourselves out guys, you are ruining this place!

    I will not be posting again, although I wish you all love, peace and joy always and will continue to support and donate to Project Avalon in the future.

    RIGHT! Having heard it from the MODS, here's one from a ROCKER to play me out. Play it loud!!!

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=s5sK_...eature=related

    Linda
    xxxxxxxxxxx

    w1indmill...You will be missed my good friend. It is Avalons loss once again! Where has that beautiful spirit gone here?

    Must we hurt others before forgiving those who hurt us?


    Sadly,

    -R-
    "IF WE THINK WE CAN OR CAN NOT WE ARE RIGHT"

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  21. Link to Post #132
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Sometimes I just don't understand life!!
    Am i the only one who feels like were going around in circles??

    love and respect

  22. Link to Post #133
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    ---------

    I can forgive someone who accepted an invitation to a party at my house, vomited on the carpet, and insulted the other guests.

    But with that forgiveness I am not obliged to invite them to my house again.

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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ---------

    I can forgive someone who accepted an invitation to a party at my house, vomited on the carpet, and insulted the other guests.

    But with that forgiveness I am not obliged to invite them to my house again.
    Come on Bill, it wouldn't be much of a party if there wasn't at least one person who vomited on the carpet!

    only kidding

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  26. Link to Post #135
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Hi Bill

    Would you consider dismantling the walls of your house and making it in to more of a open space. Wall's of house can be constricting, claustrophobic and bring with them boundary's, they also trap negative energy within them.

    Would you consider a re location to a field (with a little shed in the corner for you to sleep)

    This way all the energy would not be trapped within walls, people would be able to breath more easy.

    And of course their is no chance of any body being sick on the carpet.

    I know their have been times in my life I have been trapped by my own metaphors.

    Regards
    Ace

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  28. Link to Post #136
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ---------

    I can forgive someone who accepted an invitation to a party at my house, vomited on the carpet, and insulted the other guests.

    But with that forgiveness I am not obliged to invite them to my house again.
    But the Healing Choir are but a choir, not a whole community...its cross-forum members are singing TO a community, here, and on other forums...and its song was not vibrating on the level of 'obligation' Bill, but on one of healing. It is offered with sincerity by those who signed their names...are we the 'vomiters'? No Can we not sing as a choir here? I do not wish for my voice to be stopped just because there are voices elsewhere that you are distracted by...I ask you to hear the message again, read those words, hear them.

    Buffski xx

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  30. Link to Post #137
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Quote Posted by ace (here)
    Hi Bill

    Would you consider dismantling the walls of your house and making it in to more of a open space. Wall's of house can be constricting, claustrophobic and bring with them boundary's, they also trap negative energy within them.

    Would you consider a re location to a field (with a little shed in the corner for you to sleep)

    This way all the energy would not be trapped within walls, people would be able to breath more easy.

    And of course their is no chance of any body being sick on the carpet.

    I know their have been times in my life I have been trapped by my own metaphors.

    Regards
    Ace
    Hello Ace,

    I understand what you are saying, and I think the essense of it has a lot of merit in which to ponder over. It also gave me a big chuckle. So thanks for posting, so honestly, what I would wage
    others ,perhaps many, have had similiar thoughts.

    Hello Mr. Ryan, and Moderators,

    I truely hope you just don't see the humor in Ace's post, but I truely hope you all take the needed time to mediatate on the essense of what Ace is saying?


    Sincerely,

    Mr. Davis

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  32. Link to Post #138
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Forgiveness is a time thing. If I ask someone for forgiveness, I must be at a point where I am truly ready to change my behavior. If I am not then I should have never asked for it in the first place. Nor will I expect you to forgive me and absolve me of my sins. That part is not up to me. It's the forgivee's option to allow that bridge to be rebuilt if at all. I can never force trust out of anyone. Trust is earned. When I added my name to the list on the Healing choir message, it was in hope of allowing a bridge to be built between us and those who wish to find a common ground. Maybe some things can heal, and some never heal.
    There will come a day when we know our true history.

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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    °°°Multi Forum Group Hug°°°

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  36. Link to Post #140
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    Default Re: Forgiveness

    Quote Posted by Billiam (here)
    °°°Multi Forum Group Hug°°°
    ABSOLUTELY....multi-forum group hug....
    Now lets all SING....any aspiring choir members welcome xx

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