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Thread: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

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    Avalon Member Peace of Mind's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    People are real but their beliefs can be false. The results of their intentions will present the transparency you’re looking for.

    Peace

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    Its easy to spot folks who lack self authority and self expression.

    The SELF though always has it say. ALWAYS. DEPENDABLY. When you watch a teacher imposing consciousness related content on their audience the SELF brings bearing to the consciousness and begins to express itself too. Because they speak virtually two different languages, the teacher always ends with a sort of mixed bag content that opposes itself, because its composed of consciously derived content, and the SELF manages to work itself in there. A mix of truth and non truth.... SELF expressed people notice this right off the bat because it sounds like gobbedly gook...lol. Then the guru has to spend a lot of time substantiating their content instead of seeing the message in there.

    Self Expressive mentors, they don't teach, its not necessary to teach, they spark SElf Realization in person, who is shown for themselves. Teachers have to bend over backwards to make you find the truth substantiating everything. A SELF expressive speaks the truth, because the SELF Is our truth. Precision speech and bearing, they don't have to substantiate, and they aren't swarmed over by questions that are irrelevant to the subject matter.

    The truth is SELF evident.

    There's a reason our ancient cultures put such value on oral traditions. SELF Expression.
    Thanks 9eagle9

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote I found that you just have to listen to your own inner voice to understand if something feel right for you, if it resonates.
    Wonderful, this exactly what happens. It all depends on the state of mind. What do we mean by " the state of mind"? . When we talk about the state of mind, we are talking about where the mind is dwelling. What thoughts is it generating, what the self is experiencing and what is it associating and not associating with. Like the author of the thread stated, it's due to lack of wisdom, which comes from lack of experience, that we believe in the wrong teacher, teaching, system of living etc.. We do this because we seek wisdom in order to reach freedom and happiness, as we stumble around we hurt ourselves, sometimes others, but that's ok. It's part of the learning curve, rest assured we ALL will reach that shore of freedom when the time is right. Live in the now, let go of the dead, deep breathing, gratitude and acceptance for the opportunity to experience the joy and sorrow of life. Once we accept what is, let it move untangled.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote I found that you just have to listen to your own inner voice to understand if something feel right for you, if it resonates.
    You'd be surprised how many times people make decisions like that and subsequently use thought and logic to justify it to themselves all the while not realising they already made a decision.

    Some people are subsequently so good at using reason on themselves, including all sorts of filters from their upbringing ('oh, no you don't deserve something that nice'), or society, or peers or unresolved hurts and problems that they "talk themselves out of it".

    The more you calm yourself and sort out the mental clutter in your life (read: stress), the more you get to hear that voice. It's a very useful one.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    The truth is SELF evident.
    This is an interesting statement.

    If the truth is SELF evident, does that mean things that aren’t SELF evident are untrue?

    For instance, if I find the quoted statement above to not be SELF evident, does that make it false?

    What should one do in the case where one person finds a statement SELF evident, and thus true, and another person finds it SELF evident to be false?

    There’s another saying that truth is often stranger than fiction. Fiction is often full of surprises, and surprises are not at all SELF evident. That would imply that truth is even more unlikely to be SELF evident.

    I’m beginning to think that truth is not at all SELF evident. That would certainly explain why so many are searching for it.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
    People are real but their beliefs can be false. The results of their intentions will present the transparency you’re looking for.

    Peace
    By the same token, beliefs can be real, but the "believers" are false. Many preach, but they do it for themselves and not for the Creator. Peniel discusses a lot of this in his book. So does Red Elk who advises that the man made part of Bible must be discerned and discarded. He discusses it in his talks and in his book, Short Stories.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    The truth is SELF evident.
    This is an interesting statement.

    If the truth is SELF evident, does that mean things that aren’t SELF evident are untrue?

    Yes. Until they become self evident...or not.

    For instance, if I find the quoted statement above to not be SELF evident, does that make it false?

    You won't though, because you would have already offered your findings.


    What should one do in the case where one person finds a statement SELF evident, and thus true, and another person finds it SELF evident to be false?

    One should ask one's SELF what another person or persons have to do with one's SELF.


    There’s another saying that truth is often stranger than fiction. Fiction is often full of surprises, and surprises are not at all SELF evident. That would imply that truth is even more unlikely to be SELF evident.

    Because fiction is a construct of consciousness and truth is SELF evident, not Conscious Evident.

    I’m beginning to think that truth is not at all SELF evident. That would certainly explain why so many are searching for it.
    Thinking is also a conciousness construct and not at all related to SELF. Why is thinking necessary to the SELF that knows? YOu are looking for the truth in thought instead of SELF.

    And your proof is that because you haven't self expressed truths for them to be self evident that proves truth is not self evident. Its not evident to you because you haven't expressed it.

    I personally don't projectile vomit but its not a good argument for its non existence.

    That you cannot yet operate in SELF expression doesn't disprove its evidence or truth doesn't exist, its just evidence that you are not yet able to express it . You may be waiting for it to express outside of yourself and it won't. If it did it wouldn't be your SELF expression.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    The local raw food group is looking for me to advocate them.

    So when I look around the group I see a dozen women in varying stages of mid to morbid obesity. Skin diseases, rashes, things of that nature.

    I decide to not to advocate them. No thanks I don’t see evidence that raw food dieting is healthy.

    They get angry at me because they 'think' I'm 'implying' that a raw food diet isn’t healthy.

    I didn’t say that though did I?


    So they barrage me with books, and theories, and thoughts, and cram stalks and dried bugs down my throat and talk about how raw food dieting is much healthier but….
    they are not providing evidence of it. They sound convincing…but where’s the evidence?

    In these circumstances, I have all the evidence (self) I need not to advocate that group on my own self authority. So again they throw books and studies from other 'authorities' at me. They are looking for a higher authority than me, to negate what I've already KNOW to be self evident.

    So the group insists: These 'authorities' have credentials. YOU don't. They have videos, and books, and cds, and workshops, and a television show."

    I don't need credentails to support what I find to be self evident. There is no authority that is going to negate what I find to be self evident.

    And if it was self evident to them, why would they need me to advocate and prop them up?

    They are then attempting to convince me of something because they themselves are not convinced. And if I am convinced (or even not) my own authority would prop up their lack of authority even as it negated my self authority on the matter.

    And it drives them nuts because they have no 'idea' of what I'm talking about.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    The hierarchy and ranking system for CoS members is more complex than any to be found in Freemasonry. Progression through all levels of the teaching takes many years of dedicated study and practice. For the would-be adept, the fees for CoS services and materials to facilitate the full journey are estimated to cost approximately $300,000 - $500,000.

    Scientology paints itself as a religion, but its organization also actively markets material related to business management, education, mental health, physical health, law enforcement, "moral revitalization", and entertainment. It is a transnational business in every sense of the word. The Church of Scientology has assets totaling an estimated $400 million and an annual revenue of $300 million.

    It seems that L. Ron was right: the real money comes from establishing your own religion.

    [Read more...]

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    A church needs advocates to validate them . This is just the same old symptom that ails everyone they are looking for someone else to validate them. (not to mention the money is good, are they using the money for good?). If one is self validated one needs nothing else. Not to mention that tired old schism that money is a sign of success. That may be true but money doesn't equate truth. I have no idea when that worked our way into consciousness that we need money to validate truth. When I see a schism that has to try that hard to raise funds it speaks to me that they are trying very hard to convince themselves; they are not convinced of their own schism.

    The local Law of Attraction people are always trying to raise money to go on a cruise. Why? Why raise funds when they talk about how their 'Vortex' will manifest anything for them? They are reciting a language that props up a belief that isn't expressing itself as a truth. For that reason I find no evidence that what they are prattling on about is truthful. Or expressed.

    I was speaking to a friend last night, an ex scientologist. I was speaking of core values, and beliefs, and the roles we create within ourselves to navigate them regardless if they are serving one's purpose or thwarting it. She relabeled these phenoms with scientologist language but its virtually the same phenom.


    The MO is they create another language around that which already exists, and once they get you to understand the language, it fools people into believing that just being able to understand that language indicates they have some how managed to master the truth or an expression of evidence or truth. They've just mastered another language. Regardless if they do this by design or accident.

    People will state to me they do not believe in paying taxes. But will continue to pay taxes. Which further imbeds one in the belief that taxes exist,are worthy of belief, they are propping up and holding up a system and INVESTING in a system they state they don't believe in. How do you invest in what you don't believe in or......perhaps how is one coaxed into investing into believing that which you don't believe in? The struggle of the self against conscious rationalization.

    Language. Which isn't the same as expression. If one truly didn't believe in the tax system they wouldn't keep paying into it. I don't pay Santa Claus a weekly stipend.

    So they have to use language to confuse you from your self expression which knows they are just offering language. Not truth.

    That's all a church has to offer really. And people pay them for something they already know. A church would be more authentic and honest if it stated" I'm teaching you another language."

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by Lost Soul (here)
    Quote Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
    People are real but their beliefs can be false. The results of their intentions will present the transparency you’re looking for.

    Peace
    By the same token, beliefs can be real, but the "believers" are false. Many preach, but they do it for themselves and not for the Creator. Peniel discusses a lot of this in his book. So does Red Elk who advises that the man made part of Bible must be discerned and discarded. He discusses it in his talks and in his book, Short Stories.
    Yes, and in essence everything is false. We are living/experiencing the grand illusion…where the true self is really the whole. When certain truths are sought, there is an alignment of actions made through thoughts that will lead you to that truth. So, be wise when following other peoples teachings…the truth can only come from within. Others can advise and maybe educate on various mysteries….but their testimonies are only a rendition, not actuality. What you seek for will most likely be seen and only recognized by you, because deep down it’s really what you wanted to see. I have come to learn that truth comes in many flavors…assorted to suit everyone’s taste.

    What we need to do is figure out how to co-exist and be prosperous. No matter how many truths we find…. the real tasks is to use these pieces of the puzzle to rebuild paradise…the home we all are looking for.

    Peace

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    That you cannot yet operate in SELF expression doesn't disprove its evidence or truth doesn't exist, its just evidence that you are not yet able to express it . You may be waiting for it to express outside of yourself and it won't. If it did it wouldn't be your SELF expression.
    I can't help wondering if this is the kind of thing a fake guru might say.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    That you cannot yet operate in SELF expression doesn't disprove its evidence or truth doesn't exist, its just evidence that you are not yet able to express it . You may be waiting for it to express outside of yourself and it won't. If it did it wouldn't be your SELF expression.
    I can't help wondering if this is the kind of thing a fake guru might say.
    That is why its helpful to know, otherwise we are left to depend on thinking and wondering.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Both viewpoints have complete merit.

    It would be fair to say that we have external gurus as well as the internal guru (inner voice, conscience, paramatma, whatever you want to call it).

    Success lies in striking a balance, giving both sources a chance to speak to us when the time is right.
    Last edited by Lettherebelight; 6th May 2011 at 21:18.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    That is why its helpful to know, otherwise we are left to depend on thinking and wondering.
    I do depend on thinking and wondering, which is why your statements make little sense to me. Fake gurus want you to "know", with that knowing dependent on how it "feels". This is precisely how their game works. They manipulate your perspective of your own feelings. They convince you that these feelings are justification for the belief they want you to buy into, that being whatever belief they are expounding. They are selling certainty (faith) based on emotion. That certainty creates feelings of satisfaction and contentment within the believer, which form a positive feedback loop that reinforces the feeling of certainty. It feels right, so it must be right. Truth becomes self evident, which is of course absolute hogwash.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Thinking and knowing aren't the same thing.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    maybe a good question would be...'How do you know a real guru when you meet one?'

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    WE already know. We just don't trust what we know because we've misplaced our self authority.


    If you go to a psychic you'd expect the psychic to KNOW.

    Or do you want that psychic to think and wonder thing about you? Speculate.

    In that case you don't need a psychic you need a bartender. Or a friend.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Thier is no truth, no right, no wrong

    Ace

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by Lettherebelight (here)
    maybe a good question would be...'How do you know a real guru when you meet one?'
    If you mean enlightened sage the answer is easy
    That one has no agenda.

    You can subdivide that as often as you want.
    No need of
    Followers or being believed
    Does not try to convince
    Does not try to control any part of your life
    No hierarchy
    No ancient "secrets" to be sold.
    You are not there to serve the guru he/she is there for you.
    No oaths of loyalty.
    No fees but there may be donations or a charge to cover hire of meting place and other legitimate expense.
    The Guru and the taught are the same that is they share Higher self--same field of consciousness.
    The True guru is one with God and has no wants needs or desires.
    Does not expect or accept sexual favors from followers.
    Has humility.
    Does not display special powers.
    Phenomena may occur in their presence the but they do not take credit for whatever happens.

    Now that applies to enlightened gurus

    There are many good spiritual teachers who are not as yet in the state called enlightenment.
    Many of the aforesaid attribute of the true guru may apply to them too.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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