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Thread: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

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    Avalon Member Lettherebelight's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    I'm liking the sound of that description, Chris. Thanks very much for that!

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by andywight (here)
    Have any members here had an experience with Fake Guru or spiritual teacher?
    "Please supply credit card details, people are waiting to take your call" = Dead give away!

    A person with super powers & pshycic abilities would not require monetary sustanence!

    nuff said
    "Seek the Truth.....and the Truth shall set you free!!!"

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    I was doing a little investigative snooping around a few years back and I joined a psychic hotline as a reader.

    In all fairness,we've heard all the stories about psychic hotlines, but there's never been any discussion about the PEOPLE who CALL those hotlines.

    I had a whole new look at the world of Psychic Phenom. BIZARRE.

    And yes lots of folks use them as sex talk hot lines. Their cheaper...lol. They erm... want to do ...uh...handle themselves as you are giving them advice from 'beyond'.

    Kinky.

    The first call i got was a man named Jack. (Yes JACK) and he needed advice because his wife wasn't speaking to him because she'd caught in him in the act of .....ahem...self regard.



    Quote Posted by Tane Mahuta (here)
    Quote Posted by andywight (here)
    Have any members here had an experience with Fake Guru or spiritual teacher?
    "Please supply credit card details, people are waiting to take your call" = Dead give away!

    A person with super powers & pshycic abilities would not require monetary sustanence!

    nuff said

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion" (SOURCE: L. Ron Hubbard, Reader's Digest reprint, May 1980, page 1)
    [B]
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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    --------

    Andy, be careful what you're talking about here. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The History of Scientology is very complex!

    Therefore, although we have no such stature as the Great Philosophies, I charge you with this - look to source writings, not to interpretations. Look to the original work, not offshoots.

    If I have fought for a quarter of a century, most of it alone, to keep this work from serving to uphold the enslavers of Man, to keep it free from some destructive "pitch" or slant, then you certainly can carry that motif a little further.
    I'll not always be here on guard. The stars twinkle in the Milky Way and the wind sighs for songs across the empty fields of a planet a Galaxy away.

    You won't always be here.
    But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons - "The work was free. Keep it so."

    -- Ron Hubbard, Clearing Philosophies, 1957.

    Hubbard founded Scientology as a Church in the early 1950s because he'd upset the AMA (the American Medical Association), who were taking legal action against him for "practicing psychotherapy without a license". He also had other government groups after him, after it became clear that the techniques of Dianetics (which erase engrams) could reverse brainwashing.

    (An engram is an internal verbal command which is induced under pressure of pain and reduced consciousness, and which operates hypnotically without the person being aware of its influence. Most engrams are accidental - and persist across multiple lifetimes - but they can also be deliberately induced. Jason Bourne's induced memory loss could have been handled with Dianetics and saved him a great deal of trouble. )

    The idea to register as a Church (as Jim Humble, the inventor of MMS, did when he founded his Genesis II Church - not to make money, but to avoid prosecution) actually came from his editor friend, John Campbell. Hubbard immediately saw the benefits. Scientology was never a bona fide religion in the accepted sense of the word - there's nothing to 'believe' per se. This is very much an open secret.

    When Hubbard wrote those above words (1957), this was long before the Church went sour. Read the Project Camelot Dane Tops interview for more information (Andy, you should actually do this) - and also listen to this 1987 BBC radio documentary, Ruthless Adventure: the lives of L. Ron Hubbard, a very balanced and interesting account containing archived interviews and little-known research material.

    http://projectcamelot.org/mediafiles...on_Hubbard.mp3

    Enjoy this documentary - it's excellent, and may be very helpful to anyone who's seriously interested in the real history of the subject.

    Regarding the topic of the thread, the main problem is ego (as Chris/Greybeard says). A real guru will never claim to be one.

    Meanwhile, most teachers need to post a sign outside their door, so that students know they're there. This is no crime. The world does need them.There are many teachers of many subjects among Avalon members.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by Tane Mahuta (here)
    Quote Posted by andywight (here)
    Have any members here had an experience with Fake Guru or spiritual teacher?
    "Please supply credit card details, people are waiting to take your call" = Dead give away!

    A person with super powers & pshycic abilities would not require monetary sustanence!


    nuff said
    Not that I support psychics who charge money. But how? You think they could listen to someone's thoughts and feed themselves and shelter themselves that way? I'm psychic occasionally. It never gained me any money when I was homeless.... It did however prevent me from ever being arrested as a youngster... lol
    Last edited by Omniverse; 8th May 2011 at 07:35.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    I'm sorry to report that people take a lot of energy from a reading. And if we didnt charge, we would be pestered 24/7. Plus, we gotta eat too.

    When you forgive someone, be sure to forgive the both of you- EJ Erha

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Hubbards book 'Dianetics' is worth reading, whatever views you may have on certain people in scientology. Also it seems to me the E meter does have validity.
    BTW I have never met a scientologist, nor do I wish to.
    It seems to me every religion and philosophy has at least one or more pieces of the jigsaw, but none on their own have it all. Probably just as well!

    Yes reading givers must eat too!

    Don't mean to drift off topic, just commenting on the above posts.
    Last edited by HaveBlue; 8th May 2011 at 08:31. Reason: sp

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    I played with an emeter last week, yes it does have validity. A machine that is rather like one that people use to meter electrical output in a house. Perhaps more sensitivity since the electromagnetic output of a human is subtler than house current....lol.

    So I'm holding on to these thingermabobs( my terms, not science) and I thought of things that may be possibly infringing on my free will. Thoughts and emotions concerning life long issues I've struggled with to see if they still hold sway. Some stuff i had cleared out and I have to add not by using Scientologist methods. And some I got a meter read on. Yes you are holding on to some emo crap concerning this person or circumstance. It appeared to responds to thoughts and emotions because our thoughts and emotions produce a shift in personal energy. It didn't say what they were specifically but it was a tool for finding those conditions.

    One woman had expressed to me a long time ago that after having spent some time on an emeter she felt that it had influenced her. Her mind kept returning to ugly incidents in her life and she couldn't shake them. I'm thinking when she worked with the machine and a process she brought the issues to the surface to be examined. The machine didn't do it persay, but it did ping on these circumstances , once brought to mind they are going to stay there on the surface till someone works through them.

    We do that daily: "I'm going to feel guilty until I return Aunt Edna's call but I sure hate talking to that woman and now I'm even guiltier because you shouldn't feel that way about talking to your aunt."

    Or some other circular mind trap that we create that doesn't go away till we resolve it.


    I know a number of ex scientologists I work with and they agree that what I do with people is really the same techniques used in Scientology abatement of core beliefs, values and roles that we assume--consciousness. . Dyanetics does as well if I am remembering correctly I haven't read any of that sort of stuff since in two-three decades. The language used is different. I refer to something one way and they refer to it another way. So they all agree that the TOOLS and METHODS of Scientology can be valuable but theres other tools out there that are of the same merit. And nearly of the same identical means of process. I audit people all the time but I don't use any tools other than myself . No machine needed. And the word process is a stickler. We are 'being' processed sounds like brainwashing or robots on an assembly line

    But everything we do as far as having condition imbedded is a process, and everything we do to excavate it is a process. All of life and learning is a process. The first Chevy commerical didn't send us out robotically to buy a car, it was processed over a time. And when the conditioning is removed, it works itself out over a time too. We are all involved in a process.

    And these folks don't have anything bad to say about the tools or methods which are more a means of excavation than embedding. All told me that the reason they left Scientology is that as they moved through the higher levels , they felt their free will was being imposed on. First the conditions for free will were met and then as they moved up they felt it was being imposed on.

    From my perspective though ... I can help a person excavate an artificial belief, value or role them bringing to a sorta of blank slate. I also help them to create more empowering roles, beliefs and values . Now chances are if I could mentor them to create new values on that freshly excavated landscape, I COULD conceivably impose a role on them that were more serving to something other than themselves. Myself perhaps. So if I could do that on my own individual level one knows that it could be done on a larger scale.

    But we already know that, we've watched the PTB do it since forever ago. Imposing false conditions in people, in all of us.

    I
    Quote Posted by HaveBlue (here)
    Hubbards book 'Dianetics' is worth reading, whatever views you may have on certain people in scientology. Also it seems to me the E meter does have validity.
    BTW I have never met a scientologist, nor do I wish to.
    It seems to me every religion and philosophy has at least one or more pieces of the jigsaw, but none on their own have it all. Probably just as well!

    Yes reading givers must eat too!

    Don't mean to drift off topic, just commenting on the above posts.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    a watchful eye for hypocrisy.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Andy, be careful what you're talking about here. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The History of Scientology is very complex!
    Bill, thank you for the warning. Yes you are right a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but on the other side off that coin it reads, A lot of false knowledge is also a dangerous thing. The History of myself is very complex, the History of yourself is very complex and I'm sure the History of every member of this forum is very complex.

    I don't know much about the COS and generally don't have much interest in organized religions or cults, I posted Mr Hubbard's quote because I thought it was relevant to this thread.
    Have taken your advice though and will devote some time to researching this organization, have already dug up some interesting stuff!
    Will post my findings here as they unfold.

    For the meantime heres more of L. Ron Hubbard, in his own words:


    "They smell of all the baths they didn’t take. The trouble with China is, there are too many chinks here."
    - L. Ron Hubbard’s diary, 1928.

    "I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is."
    - L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in OVER MY SHOULDER: REFLECTIONS ON A SCIENCE FICTION ERA, Donald M. Grant Publisher. 1983

    "THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, "Off the Time Track," lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY issue 18-G

    "The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, A MANUAL ON THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL, 1955

    "So we listen. We add up associations of people with people. When a push against Scientology starts somewhere, we go over the people involved and weed them out. Push vanishes."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, MANUAL OF JUSTICE, 1959

    "MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972

    "There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, 1989 Ed., p. 170


    A Link to an interview of his son:

    http://religion-spirituality.org/sci...ubbard-jr1.php
    Last edited by andywight; 9th May 2011 at 11:55.
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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Hubbard founded Scientology as a Church in the early 1950s because he'd upset the AMA (the American Medical Association), who were taking legal action against him for "practicing psychotherapy without a license". He also had other government groups after him, after it became clear that the techniques of Dianetics (which erase engrams) could reverse brainwashing.
    "I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is."
    - L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in OVER MY SHOULDER: REFLECTIONS ON A SCIENCE FICTION ERA, Donald M. Grant
    Publisher. 1983

    Bill, it is clear from Mr Hubbard's own words, that he already had plans for starting a religion to make money prior to the early 1950s.
    Can you explain this to me.

    Thanks in advance

    Andy
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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    There are a lot of cults out there, most of them based an good work which becomes pirated by the power hungry seeking to turn prophet into profit. Playing up to positive human traits, like wanting to find stuff out and the will to community, and praying on human weaknesses, like self doubt and wanting to find a 'leader'

    I was very touched by the accounts of those who have been blighted by such organisations, and so I have decided to tell my own story of such a voyage..

    When I was in my early 20's I came across the Gnostic Movement, I attended a class of 1 in a low rent flat, the various 'lecturers' were all good hearted, warm intellegent people, and it was free, they did it as a service to humanity .
    One day a new lecturer arrived, he was different from the others, like he wanted me to 'submit' , slowly and subtily things started to change.
    There were all these new rules, and donations WERE expected.
    Normally after so many lectures the 'student' would move up a 'phase', but he always had an excuse, and I'd have to start again at lecture 1 (out of 30 or more) .
    (I later found out he had been in the movement less time than me,the difference was his 'lecturers' who had ideas..)
    Originally the movement had been set up under a very fair and democratic system, this meant that those holding office (president, auditer, etc) could only do one term, so the old guard were replaced, one by one by the students of the same couple ( Mr &Mrs P )that were behind my 'lecturer'
    The whole mood of the movement changed, the only things you were allowed to say was how BADLY you were doing in the practices and how you were FAILLING in the work on the Ego (bringing the light of understanding through self observation on to ones defects, ie; gluttony or lust for example, thus liberating the 'essence' to become true virtue )*
    This was morphed into "I am a seething abyss of corruption".
    Every Mass Movement (for that is what Mr & Mrs P were trying to create for them selves) has to have a devil, the problem is they were setting this up WITHIN the members, resulting in lots of people having massive breakdowns, two people went spectaculally mad, I left with health issues that the developed into CFS, and the movement collapsed.
    (this is a very concise version)
    Not long ago I 'googled' Samael Aun Weor, who founded the movement, and lo and behold Mr & Mrs P now have an international cult with a flash web site , and suprise suprise, you have to PAY for everything. There are lots of complaints about them too
    He now claims to be a Master, and he is , a master of BS
    They are not the only ones to profit from the Masters work,there is even a small town set up by one group in Venezuela, near the Columbian border...

    My understanding of the dynamic of what happened came from reading Eric Hoffer's The True Believer, I highly recommend it
    Last edited by Some Bloke; 11th May 2011 at 20:51.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    This is not about fake gurus but I believe this is also relevant to this thread.

    Interview with researcher Brian Gerrish about the Charity Organization Common Purpose, the founder Julia Middleton, Mind Control, Hypnosis and the Neuro Linguistic Programming Techniques that they use to "invade" the minds of politicians and other "leaders" of Society.

    [Watch/Listen to interview...]

    Edit: link to interview above unavailable (well worth watching if can find it elsewhere, please link if found): similar interview here: http://www.cpexposed.com/video/?vide...edia_interview
    Last edited by andywight; 18th May 2011 at 22:22.
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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    I have had over a hundred spiritual or psychological teachers that I worked with intensively over long periods of time. Somehow I always managed to fail to “toe the line” to such an extent that it would become impossible for them to continue to work with me.

    Then, over fourteen years ago, the god Shiva had a chat with me in the astral (in full colour “cinemascope” with the equivalent of quadraphonic sound, so to speak). Actually, I was fascinated because he was one of very, few “teachers” I have had or listened to who was coming out of what you might call pure emptiness, or pure everythingness. It was very much the same as how Inelia looks to me in her video interview. There’s a detachment there that’s so unbelievably huge. With Shiva, for example, any time I tried to communicate any thought or feeling that had any trace of negativity in it, he seemed to fully receive it but totally ignore it. It was as if he genuinely was incapable of intaking anything negative whatsoever. That was so far beneath his dignity it didn’t register. It was as if he had the ability to make it become non-existent as soon as it came out of my “mouth”, or even before it did.

    Shiva ran through all the “teachers” I had had. Somehow he made it clear that there was only one who half impressed him. However, Shiva didn’t express that negative judgment, because he just doesn’t do negative. Instead, he drew the judgments out of somewhere inside of me. Incidentally, that teacher was the late Barry Long, who was also Eckhart Tolle’s teacher, and the inventor of exercises such as “feeling the aliveness” and of concepts such as “the inner body” and “the unhappy-body” (which Tolle calls “the pain-body”). Come to think of it, Barry was about halfway there to having that divine/universal level of detachment. Barry was unlocatable as a personality, much of the time, if that make sense to anybody.

    Incidentally, I understand the original meaning of “guru” is “oracle”, or “antenna”. The pineal gland is known as your “guru” in Hinduism. May I suggest that’s the best guru to follow?


    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

    Above all, always refuse to cut your life in two: inner/outer, matter/Spirit, etc.

    Drop the past, as much as you can. Why carry such a huge emotional burden on your back? Drop all your thoughts about your self. That's liberation.


    Limitation is just Infinity turned back in on itself.

    There is no teaching. There is only learning.


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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Hi Everybody,

    The truth is that you can't know a fake Guru when you met them. You will only find out when it's too late. It's the same in any walk of life. For those in the UK or like me have cable TV hee in Brazil, there is a programm on UK TV called "The Real Hustle" where people get scammed, either because of their greed, innocence or ignorance. Either way they were sucked in and eventually spat out at the other end.

    It's the same in Guru land. The false Gurus are normally well read, eloquent people who suck people in for as long as the 'marks' can take it. Then the 'marks' get spat out bewildered at the other end. After all they put all of their faith in to the false Guru.

    So false Gurus are really hard to find when you meet them. That's what makes it tough and extremely cruel.

    Best regards,

    Steve

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Dear All,
    Anyone who opens their mouth is a Guru!
    Everyone is constantly tell you how the world is. "Lovely weather, isn't it?"
    is loaded!!

    How many people have you met who are not Fake? Who is being themselves?

    It's the illusion calling the illusion, an illusion!

    You all are your inner teacher, you just have to know it.
    When you know every thing is an illusion, you can be kind to that illusion, it serves as a reminder!

    You must have better things to do?

    All the best

    Tony

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    This is a website dedicated to all fake gurus, Swamis and spiritual leaders throughout the world.

    We will tell how they empty the pockets of their followers and devotees who give freely after hearing lies and promises of enlightenment and success.
    We will report about their sex scandals, about child abuse and molesting of women, about disrespecting feelings of trust and the various ways how they enrich themselves.
    And finally we will offer support to those who have lost their trust in religion or spirituality through the actions of such a person, cult or organization.

    http://www.fake-guru.com/
    [B]
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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    Gurus who are offering yet ANOTHER belief system instead of authenticity serve to create more density. It just folds over and over and over on itself, daily, creating more Matrix. And the people who climb in their knickers and laud this create density as well . Co -conspirators. I'd not be to far off when I state they are serving those, unwittingly, that would seek to keep us imprisoned, by just creating more an more conditions, densities, thoughts giving people something to think and do instead of showing them lateral alignment where nothing needs to be done or thought or practiced. They are self serving rather than allowing Higher Self to Serve. They may be very well intentioned, not talking about evil people here but....graven images and false idols become more important than truly experiencing and being shown.

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    Default Re: How to Know a Fake Guru When You Meet One

    A true guru is not actually a guru at all. Historically the word Guru has a meaning of someone to follow or worship. A real leader is someone that leads, helps you get started and then lets you go. There is great wisdom in the saying " give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a life time" This is the true essence of teaching and spirituality.

    In a broader sense we are all Guru's or teachers. However, we have a responsibility to learn truth then pass it on. Some make a living from this because they want to sustain them selves and continue to do so, thats the pitfall of a money based society, money isnt everything but its right up there with oxygen.. Remember there is no quick fix. there is no short cut to a spiritual lifestyle , it is a long journey sometimes of self discovery the length of time is proportional to your ability to connect with your higher and lower self and discover who you are. This can be best done by spending time with your self and meditating.

    When you release thoughts and calm the mind you can then hear the wisdom thats inside you.

    The fakeness of what we have been lead to believe is that there is a pill to fix everything.. its not true.


    an excellent method of meditation is called sacred silence. Its an Indian Shaman method and is very effective in calming the mind to achieve silence.

    First step is silence
    Second is forgiveness
    Third is learning wisdom
    Fourth is teaching


    and all along the way is the joy of being free in spirit.

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