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    Great Britain Avalon Member Fred259's Avatar
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    Default Chemtrails don't exist

    Mod-edit: This thread used to be part of the David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!! thread.

    I have split that thread into two parts. That original and now shorter thread contains some posts concerned about chemtrails. This new and now longer thread contains Fred259's posts stating that chemtrails don't exist, and responses thereto.

    As just about anyone who has an interest in chemtrails on this forum has noticed by now, Fred259 is determined to convince us, with volumes of evidence and tireless rebuttals, that there are no chemtrails, just contrails.

    In my determination, this is creating a problem for any thread that presents evidence supporting a concern over chemtrails. Any such thread will be turned into another lecture hall for Fred259's rebuttal.

    So I am giving Fred259 his own lecture hall - this thread. Perhaps he is right. I personally have not witnessed clear evidence of chemtrails. I am quite certain that TPTB are willing, able and determined to weaken us with a variety of threats real and imagined. Perhaps the "Chemtrail Threat" is just another fear mongering hoax of TPTB, intended to weaken us psychologically.

    My guess is not -- but I don't know. So it is reasonable to me that that position have a place on this forum, if someone chooses to represent it. Fred259 clearly does so choose.

    But those who are concerned that Chemtrails are a real threat, and who wish to present evidence and discussion to that view, also deserve a place on this forum, without being overwhelmed by lengthy rebuttals.

    So I ask (and intend to insist) that Fred259 confine his Chemtrail related posts to this thread, henceforth.

    P.S. -- Let me clarify something. I took the above actions to form this thread not because of what position regarding Chemtrails anyone took. Rather I took the above actions because one member's manner of presenting his position was unduly stressful to other threads and posts on the subject. Please see a post of mine, https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post218873, below for an analogy that shows in more detail what I was concerned with.

    - Paul.


    =========================

    [ The following post of Fred259's was partially in response to Realeye's Post #4 on the other thread. -Paul.]

    Realeyes,…good guy I like the way you ask “Does anyone know” rather than swim with the fish.

    This member is a clear thinker…..

    Chemtrails is a Psy Ops propaganda tool from the New World Order. One of many used. Don’t buy the BS folks. If you do you are a victim, and they control you. This is of course is what they want.

    David Icke, Alex Jones and Stewart Swerdlow don’t know what they are talking about.

    When they do they should speak up, given they don’t they should shut up.

    Its possible they are all just caught up in this… possible…it’s not PC to be controversial on Avalon, I accept that many of you take heart from David…that’s doesn’t make him right.

    If they persist in publishing this rubbish I’m calling them out as part of the problem and puppets for the New World Order.

    Integrity, and clear thinking are critical with these criminals.


    This is the document produced by the United Kingdom Government all party parliamentary select group on GeoEngineering or chemtrails.First I should explain what that is for those not in the UK.

    Essentially it’s a group of MPs from all political groups, so a mix of Conservatives Labour, Liberals, Scots nationalist, Welsh etc who have been nominated to look into GeoEngineering and publish a consultation paper. This is ongoing, it’s a consultation paper.



    GEO ENGINEERING.

    http://www.publications.parliament.u...ch/221/221.pdf


    First you need to read the document.


    The problem is we read and listen to rubbish on the internet, you then look in the skies, and then a report comes from the House of Commons on Geo Engineering which you don’t read but put 2+2 together.

    1) Read the document.
    2) Read the document again
    3) Read the document again and again.

    Where does it say they are Geo Engineering? It doesn’t. It’s a consultation paper.

    But for the last ten years you have believed these utter lies fed to you by Icke Jones and the rest. But no longer because having read the documents you will now be educated, and in so doing the people who try to control you dont win, you are smarter than them, Icke & Jones included!.





    House of Commons Science & Technology Committee.



    The Regulation of Geo Engineering Published 18 March 2010.


    Page 6 We are of the view that the government should give the full range of policy options for managing climate changes due consideration and that GeoEngineering technologies should be evaluated as part of a portfolio of responses to climate change alongside mitigation and adaption efforts.

    Before deploying any technology with a capacity to geo engineer the climate, we considered that it was essential that a rational debate on the ethics of Geo Engineering was conducted.

    Page 7 Paragraph 5 … A Far more detailed study would be needed


    Page 21 Paragraph 42 No Urgency……


    Page 25 Paragraph 56 Public consultation.


    Page 31 Paragraph 72 Public participation in Geo Engineering Decision Making.



    Page 39 Paragraph 99 Formulating International regulations for GeoEngineering.



    Page 44 Paragraph 113 Collaborative workings with US Congress. Washington DC




    Again…. Don’t be a victim of the “New World Order”.

    http://www.publications.parliament.u...ch/221/221.pdf

    Save this to your favorites- don’t be a victim and don’t let them control you.

    You don’t believe in the monster under the bed do you, so don’t believe this!

    PS, Please don’t thank me for this post, you will be thanking me if you read and save the document.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 15th May 2011 at 23:38. Reason: add preliminary mod-edit comment

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    Chemtrails is a Psy Ops propaganda tool from the New World Order. One of many used. Don’t buy the BS folks. If you do you are a victim, and they control you. This is of course is what they want
    Hi Fred. I find your impassioned pitch intriguing. You have my ear. Please elaborate on the psy ops campaign in which you believe the NWO is engaged. I'm interested in the how/why/and to what end...

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    This is the document produced by the United Kingdom Government all party parliamentary select group on GeoEngineering or chemtrails.First I should explain what that is for those not in the UK.

    Essentially it’s a group of MPs from all political groups, so a mix of Conservatives Labour, Liberals, Scots nationalist, Welsh etc who have been nominated to look into GeoEngineering and publish a consultation paper. This is ongoing, it’s a consultation paper.

    Where does it say they are Geo Engineering? It doesn’t. It’s a consultation paper.
    Who disputes this? Yes, this is a consulation paper. This isn't an admission. As far as I understand this issue, the official line on geoengineering is tptb are not actually engaged in geoengineering, rather the "responsible governments" (meaning the UN) are simply "exploring" the possibilites. Key to this report is it represents the official line. I fail to make any connection to how this disproves actual covert geoengineering operations clearly in play, but if I am missing something, by all means you still have my ear.

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    Great Britain Avalon Member Fred259's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    John what they want to do is turn you into a moron by feeding you all this rubbish.

    You know don’t you that some real nasty bastards exist in this world. You only need to go down to London and visit the Tavistock Institute and see some of the dark practices that emanate from that organisation.

    The next concept you must accept is that they are trying to dumb you down. Clearly this is not something that anyone would want. That being the case its best you treat most things you read and listen to on the web as highly suspect.

    If you do this your mind and understanding will be free from those who seek to control you. To support this and the content of this thread I did this afternoon post up the HM Government Commons Select Committee report into Geo Engineering. It’s featured one above in post five.

    The document clearly states that the committee is looking at all GeoEngineering options and that above all the public would be consulted and would have input into the outcome. It’s just a consultative document.

    No decision has been made and probably given the length of time these things take will be in the order eight to ten years before any decision is made. That being the case its not really possible is it that they were GeoEngineering or chemtrailing over the NE of England today.

    So what was the problem today. Look at the weather chart and you will see that high pressure dominates the whole of the UK and most of continental Europe at this time and this is the reason these jet trails are in the skies.

    In your post you wonder if the weather will make a turn for the worst, No they will be gone by 22.00 tonight and you will see the stars all night. It will be the same tomorrow and perhaps for a week or so. When the high pressure system moves the atmosphere will change and you won’t see any trails just as it was last week.

    John aircraft have no means whatsoever of spraying chemicals from the air, so please stop believing this.

    I encourage you to look into this rather than believing everything you read on websites. If you choose not to sadly you are a victim of deception from the criminals in Tavistock Square.

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    Great Britain Avalon Member Fred259's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    Chemtrails is a Psy Ops propaganda tool from the New World Order. One of many used. Don’t buy the BS folks. If you do you are a victim, and they control you. This is of course is what they want
    Hi Fred. I find your impassioned pitch intriguing. You have my ear. Please elaborate on the psy ops campaign in which you believe the NWO is engaged. I'm interested in the how/why/and to what end...

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    This is the document produced by the United Kingdom Government all party parliamentary select group on GeoEngineering or chemtrails.First I should explain what that is for those not in the UK.

    Essentially it’s a group of MPs from all political groups, so a mix of Conservatives Labour, Liberals, Scots nationalist, Welsh etc who have been nominated to look into GeoEngineering and publish a consultation paper. This is ongoing, it’s a consultation paper.

    Where does it say they are Geo Engineering? It doesn’t. It’s a consultation paper.
    Who disputes this? Yes, this is a consulation paper. This isn't an admission. As far as I understand this issue, the official line on geoengineering is tptb are not actually engaged in geoengineering, rather the "responsible governments" (meaning the UN) are simply "exploring" the possibilites. Key to this report is it represents the official line. I fail to make any connection to how this disproves actual covert geoengineering operations clearly in play, but if I am missing something, by all means you still have my ear.

    See post seven.

    I’m talking about lies and deception in an attempt to encourage members to question sometimes what they read.

    I have a story.

    Ive just returned from local hardware shop it’s called B&Q in the UK which is a national retailer who have many of these stores throughout the country, so it’s a big company.

    They have allowed the Royal Society Protection Birds (RSPB) a conservation charity to set up a small stall and sell membership, bird foods and other smaller items to shoppers.

    The public are led to believe that this conservation charity are involved in wildlife and conservation, please join and pay $5.00 per month to protect the birds visiting your back garden as it were.

    Nothing could be further form the truth, yes a very small amount of money goes for the blackbirds and robins who visit the little only ladies garden he has just been persuaded to sign up.

    The reality is that the charity which started with all good intentions has over the last ten years been infiltrated by thieves and gangsters who essentially swindle vast sums of money from the little old ladies and use this money to destroy society as we know it in the UK.

    This is the work of criminals in the New World Order, we know who is doing this. This morning post related to the deception of so called chemtrailing whatever that is, and now this money laundering scam involving trickery and embezzlement. It’s never ending. A number of us are working on this and a report will be submitted to the charity commission. It’s hopefully that something could be done to stop this but you will find the same people exist in the charity commission and so the complaint is taken from the envelope and passed through the paper shredder. And so it goes on.

    Smithy I don’t want my children to live in a country like this.


    I disagree. I think it generally accepted that the US military are involved in aerial trails involving a number of applications in the NW USA, a known test area but apart from that I don’t agree with your comment.

    If you are trying to suggest that a secret covert government is involved in GeoEngineering operations involving spraying a worldwide population, or even the US population I do think that’s a bit naughty. No real evidence exists of this, and as I mentioned earlier its all part of deception from the same covert government who you refer to sadly.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    John what they want to do is turn you into a moron by feeding you all this rubbish....The next concept you must accept is that they are trying to dumb you down. Clearly this is not something that anyone would want. That being the case its best you treat most things you read and listen to on the web as highly suspect.
    This is certainly not earth-shattering news. If there is one thing we understand well it's that the controllers are actively seeking a myriad of ways to dumb down the masses. I'm thinking the most effective ways are GMO foods, vaccines, fluoride in the drinking water, aspertame, and various other poisons in the food supply, not to mention rendering the ever-dependent masses on mind-numbing products pushed by Big Pharma -- to name but a few. Throw in bread-and-circuses distractions riddled throughout our culture and indoctrination campaigns from cradle to grave. These are the most effective ways of dumbing down the masses. I fail to see how staging a non-existent chemtrail scare serves to dumb down society. But let's just say, for sake of illustration, that you are correct. Most of the people I run into have no idea whatsoever what a chemtrail is. If your assertion is correct, tptb are doing a horrible job of "dumbing down the masses" with their psy-ops chemtrailing exercise.

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    The document clearly states that the committee is looking at all GeoEngineering options and that above all the public would be consulted and would have input into the outcome. It’s just a consultative document. No decision has been made and probably given the length of time these things take will be in the order eight to ten years before any decision is made. That being the case its not really possible is it that they were GeoEngineering or chemtrailing over the NE of England today.
    Yes, Fred. You've stated this already. And I concur. It does clearly state that the committee is looking at all GeoEngineering options and that above all the public would be consulted and would have input into the outcome. But you still haven't addressed my question above. How does this official document have anything to do with the covert geoengineering campaign currently afoot? That's why this chemtrailing thing is a covert operation and not an overt one. But to be clear: there have been numerous scientific summits and official papers that address geoengineering, much like the document you cite, all of which discuss the whys and hows, e.g. the logistics of geoengineering... but as far as I know, none of these official discussions ever admit that geoengineering is taking place. These are all just discussions (I would say precursors to the inevitability that chemtrailing will eventually have to go public). In any case, your logic here is a non sequitor, i.e., because the official consulting panel says they aren't geoengineering they must not be geoengineering... ?? If I'm missing something, please elucidate. I'm truly confused.

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    I encourage you to look into this rather than believing everything you read on websites. If you choose not to sadly you are a victim of deception from the criminals in Tavistock Square.
    At the end of the day, forget about the Internet. How about using our eyes and our understanding of physics and look up into the skies? What more do we need?

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    John aircraft have no means whatsoever of spraying chemicals from the air, so please stop believing this.
    Um, wait a minute. Deja vu all over again. Didn't we talk about the fact that there most certainly aircraft with spraying equipment: "crop dusters", and that any seat-of-the-pants engineer could easily take the crop duster technology and make it work on larger (non-passenger) aircraft?

    I have no doubt that we are fed lots of disinformation on various subjects, but suddenly in the skies, contrails no longer disappear, and soil samples show aluminum concentrations - in the very top layer - something like 6000 times greater than normal?

    C'mon, where there's smoke, there's fire. Right? Or at least, worth looking into and not just dismissing, right?

    Dennis
    Last edited by Dennis Leahy; 4th May 2011 at 21:07. Reason: "typo fix:" layer" was "later"


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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    [QUOTE=T Smith;211302]
    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    John what they want to do is turn you into a moron by feeding you all this rubbish....The next concept you must accept is that they are trying to dumb you down. Clearly this is not something that anyone would want. That being the case its best you treat most things you read and listen to on the web as highly suspect.
    This is certainly not earth-shattering news. If there is one thing we understand well it's that the controllers are actively seeking a myriad of ways to dumb down the masses. I'm thinking the most effective ways are GMO foods, vaccines, fluoride in the drinking water, aspertame, and various other poisons in the food supply, not to mention rendering the ever-dependent masses on mind-numbing products pushed by Big Pharma -- to name but a few. Throw in bread-and-circuses distractions riddled throughout our culture and indoctrination campaigns from cradle to grave. These are the most effective ways of dumbing down the masses. I fail to see how staging a non-existent chemtrail scare serves to dumb down society. But let's just say, for sake of illustration, that you are correct. Most of the people I run into have no idea whatsoever what a chemtrail is. If your assertion is correct, tptb are doing a horrible job of "dumbing down the masses" with their psy-ops chemtrailing exercise.

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    The document clearly states that the committee is looking at all GeoEngineering options and that above all the public would be consulted and would have input into the outcome. It’s just a consultative document. No decision has been made and probably given the length of time these things take will be in the order eight to ten years before any decision is made. That being the case its not really possible is it that they were GeoEngineering or chemtrailing over the NE of England today.
    Yes, Fred. You've stated this already. And I concur. It does clearly state that the committee is looking at all GeoEngineering options and that above all the public would be consulted and would have input into the outcome. But you still haven't addressed my question above. How does this official document have anything to do with the covert geoengineering campaign currently afoot? That's why this chemtrailing thing is a covert operation and not an overt one. But to be clear: there have been numerous scientific summits and official papers that address geoengineering, much like the document you cite, all of which discuss the whys and hows, e.g. the logistics of geoengineering... but as far as I know, none of these official discussions ever admit that geoengineering is taking place. These are all just discussions (I would say precursors to the inevitability that chemtrailing will eventually have to go public). In any case, your logic here is a non sequitor, i.e., because the official consulting panel says they aren't geoengineering they must not be geoengineering... ?? If I'm missing something, please elucidate. I'm truly confused.

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    I encourage you to look into this rather than believing everything you read on websites. If you choose not to sadly you are a victim of deception from the criminals in Tavistock Square.
    Quote At the end of the day, forget about the Internet. How about using our eyes and our understanding of physics and look up into the skies? What more do we need?
    No these are contrails. I have spent the last two weeks trying to share this with the forum, by way of scientific documents explications photographs etc People aren’t really interested, and frankly Im beginning to think they want something to worry about. I don’t really see any further point in sharing this with the systemically fragile.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    Ive just returned from local hardware shop it’s called B&Q in the UK which is a national retailer who have many of these stores throughout the country, so it’s a big company.

    They have allowed the Royal Society Protection Birds (RSPB) a conservation charity to set up a small stall and sell membership, bird foods and other smaller items to shoppers.

    The public are led to believe that this conservation charity are involved in wildlife and conservation, please join and pay $5.00 per month to protect the birds visiting your back garden as it were.

    Nothing could be further form the truth, yes a very small amount of money goes for the blackbirds and robins who visit the little only ladies garden he has just been persuaded to sign up.

    The reality is that the charity which started with all good intentions has over the last ten years been infiltrated by thieves and gangsters who essentially swindle vast sums of money from the little old ladies and use this money to destroy society as we know it in the UK.
    This kind of swindling has been going on since the dawn of time.

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    If you are trying to suggest that a secret covert government is involved in GeoEngineering operations involving spraying a worldwide population, or even the US population I do think that’s a bit naughty. No real evidence exists of this, and as I mentioned earlier its all part of deception from the same covert government who you refer to sadly.
    This is exactly what I'm suggesting. A bit naughty is a bit of an understatement. If you think my suggestion is over the top, I suggest you read the following work by Historian Richard Dolan:

    UFOs and the National Security State.

    This is a very compelling and important work with evidence abound... at the end of the day, Chemtrailing is child's play in the grand scheme of things.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    [QUOTE=Dennis Leahy;211304]
    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    John aircraft have no means whatsoever of spraying chemicals from the air, so please stop believing this.
    Quote Um, wait a minute. Deja vu all over again. Didn't we talk about the fact that there most certainly aircraft with spraying equipment: "crop dusters", and that any seat-of-the-pants engineer could easily take the crop duster technology and make it work on larger (non-passenger) aircraft?

    Rubbish........Dennis go and dig the veggie garden for goodness sake, and have a think about it...

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Fred I'm really interested in the whole chem/contrails debate- can you direct me to where I can find your documents, photos etc. ?
    Can I ask you have you seen the film "What in the world are they spraying " and what did you think of it ?
    Last question- may I ask what kind of backround you're coming from with the information you have ?
    Thanks :-)
    Last edited by Amer; 4th May 2011 at 21:26. Reason: spelling
    Know Thyself

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Amer (here)
    Fred I'm really interested in the whole chem/contrails debate- can you direct me to where I can find your documents, photos etc. ?
    Can I ask you have you seen the film "What in the world are they spraying " and what did you think of it ?
    Last question- may I ask what kind of backround you're coming from with the information you have ?
    Thanks :-)
    No I fed up really... this is just a piss take.... However I will agree if you post and tell dennis to go to his veggie garden. I wonder what he actually grows....

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Hello Fred,

    No need to be rude.

    Quote Posted by Fred259
    John aircraft have no means whatsoever of spraying chemicals from the air, so please stop believing this.
    That statement cannot be correct in my view.

    If you'd like to present evidence in support of that please do so, but please respect the fellow Avalonians that do not have your experience.
    Last edited by Ilie Pandia; 4th May 2011 at 21:38. Reason: spelling correction

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote No I fed up really... this is just a piss take.... However I will agree if you post and tell dennis to go to his veggie garden. I wonder what he actually grows....
    Ground control to Fred you're breaking up my friend !!!!!
    Know Thyself

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    No these are contrails. I have spent the last two weeks trying to share this with the forum, by way of scientific documents explications photographs etc People aren’t really interested, and frankly Im beginning to think they want something to worry about. I don’t really see any further point in sharing this with the systemically fragile.
    I've read the posts. They just were not convincing... to me. I'm not so much worried about it as I am interested at getting to the truth.

    From my personal observation:

    I've seen two planes in the same sky and roughly at the same altitude. One plane emits a trail that dissapates and the other a trial that expands and lingers. If there is some explanation of a contrail emitting from both of these aircraft, I'm very open to hearing it.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Amer (here)
    Fred I'm really interested in the whole chem/contrails debate- can you direct me to where I can find your documents, photos etc. ?
    Can I ask you have you seen the film "What in the world are they spraying " and what did you think of it ?
    Last question- may I ask what kind of backround you're coming from with the information you have ?
    Thanks :-)
    I prepared this this morning for an English website,Im happy to spend time on this if folks are serious, so its up to you...


    The atmosphere is like a living reef.

    It’s best to compare the atmosphere with an undersea living coral reef. Things are changing all the time as nature changes weather systems, forming clouds and then dissipating clouds, water held in a gaseous state (vapor) then cooled to become water droplets, cooled again as the air rises and changing again to ice, further cooling ice rising in convective currents, flowing from high pressure to low pressure, cooling as it rises.

    Wait a moment this is a storm cloud building, severe cumulonimbus death traps, ice is now rising at 7,000 feet per minute cooling instantly, first it’s pellets then it’s ping ponk ball size, as it continues rising in less dense air.

    The speed of cooling increases now its tennis ball size, hurtling through the lower atmosphere this is nature we are describing, further shock cooling; now its great chunks of ice being sucked upwards as high as the tropopause or 50,000 feet in Australia, Florida and the tropics but less in higher latitudes 20-30,000 say max.

    You’ve seen those massive big clouds develop especially in the tropics or on holiday. When its moisture source is removed look for the anvil cloud at the very top, this is a sign that its finished developing and will shortly start to dissipate, time to get the kids indoors. This has spoilt many an afternoon BBQ in summer.

    I’m not exaggerating appreciate tens of thousands of tons of water sublimated into ice above your house at 30-50,000 feet the size of footballs. Now the whole lot is about to come thundering down, no an umbrella isn’t going to save you!

    However nature does because the tennis balls are now falling en masse perhaps spread over a large area 30sq miles for example warming and melting as they fall.


    The development stages of a Thunderstorm. CB Cloud. This is the “living atmosphere”.

    In the sky the daylight drops, the pressure shoots up (caused by what’s about to fall) and the temp drops dramatically, you feel it in the air and even on your skin it's cold dense air (it's come from 50,000ft and -60C).. all caused by what is about to fall from the heavens.

    By the time it reaches above the ground the wind direction veers (clockwise) and increases dramatically, gust front and wind shear dominate the local area then it's pelting hard in N Europe, very hard in Spain and Very very very hard in Australia and the tropics, hail stones drilling on tin roofs severe enough to destroy whole orchards and crops, and causing flash local flooding.

    It’s a living atmosphere, it’s like the great barrier reef, its nature it’s a continual process.

    Clouds & Contrails.

    Clouds and contrails are formed when the wet and dry bulb temperatures are the same or close to the same. The atmosphere will have 100% relative humidity in a super cooled super saturated air mass.

    What is wet and dry bulb temperature.

    Below is an image of a wet dry bulb thermometer, you already know how contrails are formed because you did this at school, you’ve just forgotten, it happens with us all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wetdryhygrometer.JPG


    The wet and dry bulb thermometer is no different from the temperature gauge you have on your doorstep.

    The dry bulb measures the temp of the air on your doorstep lets say +10C

    The wet bulb temp is the temp of the moisture in the air that’s held in a gaseous state ie vapor lets say its +6.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature


    Relative Humidity.

    Relative humidity in simple terms is the amount of moisture that can be held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state.

    At or close to 100% relative humidity at ground level mist will form.

    At or close to 100% relative humidity at altitude cloud and contrails will form.

    When relative humidity is 100% it’s known as super cooled or super saturated.

    When relative humidity is less than 100% the moisture is held in a gaseous state and no mist will form at ground level or cloud or contrails at altitude.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_humidity


    Latent Heat.

    The addition or removal of latent heat will change the state of the atmosphere.

    Climbing through the atmosphere remember temp, pressure and density are decreasing.
    Air in a gaseous state contains moisture.

    When this moisture is cooled condensation occurs.
    Further intense cooling will turn the condensation to liquid water.
    Further intense cooling will turn the liquid water by freezing into ice.

    And

    Descending through the atmosphere, remember temp, pressure and density are now increasing.

    Ice warms and turns to liquid water by melting.
    Further warming will turn the liquid water into condensation.
    Further warming will turn the condensation into a gaseous state.(vapor)

    Think about what really happens when you defrost the fridge, it’s exactly the same.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat

    Your Back Garden on a Winters Day.


    At midday the dry bulb temp is +6C and the wet bulb temp +1C.

    Moisture is held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state. Relative humidity is 80%

    The sun goes below the horizon, and the dry bulb temp falls to +1C

    Moisture is no longer able to remain in a gaseous state and relative humidity shoots up to 100%

    The wet dry bulb is now +1C and the wet bulb is +1C. Both are the same.

    The air in the garden is now super cooled and super saturated.

    Condensation forms. The condensation is mist.

    Mist and fog are the same thing. Mist has a forward visibility of one nautical mile (6080ft) Fog forms when forward visibility is less than one nautical mile again (6080ft)

    Further cooling will turn mist into fog, and so it’s foggy in the garden overnight.

    By 09.00 inbound solar radiation from the sun heats the earth and the dry bulb temp rises, turning the fog into mist.

    By 10.00 further heating and inbound radiation turns the mist to low level stratus cloud.

    By 11.00 further heating has caused the cloud to disappear. BUT Moisture is being held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state with relative humidity at 80%.


    Now we are going to travel through the atmosphere with the wet and dry bulb thermometer in our hand.

    We take the same garden thermometer and change the scale to minus figures.

    If it were possible to slowly lift a wet and dry bulb thermometer through the atmosphere to 35,000 feet this is what would happen. Remember we said it’s a living atmosphere, like a coral reef.

    At ground level the dry bulb temp is +10C and the wet bulb temp is +2C.

    Temperature, density, and pressure all decrease with altitude. That is to say when the aircraft climbs in altitude TD&P will decrease and when it descends from altitude TD&P will increase.

    TD&P increase and decrease at varying amounts, but in general dry air or dry bulb temp will decrease at 3C per thousand feet and wet bulb or saturated air will decrease at 1.5C per thousand feet.

    From this we can see that as dry air cools more rapidly compared with saturated air at some point perhaps say 10,000 both temps will be the same.

    Therefore;

    Passing 10,000 feet the dry and wet temps go together at -15C so at this altitude the air is supersaturated 100% relative humidity and clouds and contrails will form. This is the cloud base.

    At 20,000 feet as the dry bulb temp is -25C and the wet bulb is -25C so contrails or clouds will form. This is the cloud tops.

    At 21,000 the dry and wet bulb temps are now separate so we are in clear air. No Cloud no contrail.

    At 22,000 feet wet and dry bulbs are together both at -28C and so clouds and contrails will again form.

    At 23,000 feet wet and dry bulbs are separated again -30C and -33C so no clouds and contrails form.

    At 35,000 feet the air is very cold -60C, but it’s also very dry, so if the relative humidity is 100% cirrus clouds will form, gently is this thin (less dense) rarefied upper atmosphere.

    What is happening in the atmosphere throughout all levels is the same that happened in the back garden. It’s nature, it’s the living atmosphere.

    Having watched the video of how the cumulonimbus storm cloud formed above appreciate that in this living atmosphere this is happening all the time and reasonably fast.

    Along comes the early morning traffic contrails will form and last all day. Its not just one aircraft, perhaps 50, or 500 aircraft appreciate that 2,000 cross the Atlantic per day via over Cornwall, Wales or Scotland.

    If the relative humidity at 35,000 feet was 80% no clouds or contrails will form perhaps in the morning for example. 400 aircraft went over and you didn’t even notice.

    If at 12.00 local the relative humidity increases towards 100% very thin cirrus clouds (ice crystals) and contrails will form. 300 aircraft go over and you shake your head in utter dismay! Then we read on internet forums “they started spraying at dinnertime” !

    By 15.00 local with the relative humidity still at 100% these contrails have now spread to cirrus stratus cloud and the blue sky is starting to disappear. More head shaking. Then we read on forums “I watched a video”. And “it’s the government Bush is poisoning us”

    By 18.00 local the relative humidity drops to 80%, the clouds and contrails disappear, yet 400 aircraft pass overhead and you don’t even notice.

    By 21.00 local the relative humidity drops to 60% and the dry and wet bulb temp are miles apart and what happens? It turns into a lovely still evening with deep blue skies, and its gin clear horizon to horizon.

    It’s the living atmosphere.

    The Tephigram Chart.

    How does the Met man know the base and tops of clouds? How do they prepare a forecast? The answer is they have to obtain the dry and wet bulb temps from altitude and they do this by sending up a radio sonde weather balloon or by calling a passing aircraft and asking them for the T&Ps

    The balloon reports back the temps and pressures and they then print this on a graph.

    Click on this forum link and scroll down. This is the Tephigram chart from the met man.

    The dry bulb temp is plotted and the wet bulb temp (also known as dew point) is also plotted

    On the left is the altitude scale. On the left hand column the 500mb level is 18,000 ft, 300mb is 30,000feet, 200mb is 40,000 and 100mb is 53,000ft.

    You can see that from ground level to 500mb (18,000 ft) both the lines are together or almost, so this means the temps are the same all through this lower atmosphere, relative humidity is 100% super saturated air mass and so clouds and contrails will form always.

    Above 500mb (18,000ft) the wet and dry bulb temps are miles apart relative humidity drops to say 80% and no clouds or contrails will ever form.

    Notice that at the 300mb level (30,000 ft) the green line dry bulb starts to drift towards the red line. If they did come together at 30,000 contrails would form along with cirrus clouds.(ice crystals)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tephigram


    That’s it. This is how clouds and contrails are formed. However remember we said it’s a living atmosphere so it’s changing all the time it never stops.

    Clouds are formed by this method as are contrails when the relative humidity is 100%.

    Clouds are formed by convection (warm air heating and rising and cooling as per the chart)

    By Orographic uplift, which is a large parcel of air, by that I mean perhaps the size of Europe pushing against a mountain ridge. The air rises and cools. Look at the chart. When the green and red lines come together the cloud will form.

    By Ascent. At weather fronts for example. Cold dense air exists at the surface and will push underneath the less dense warm air pushing it aloft. This creates instability which really means an unstable atmosphere, which aslo means as a consequence unstable weather at ground level. Look at the chart, when the lines come together the clouds and contrails will form.

    Go sit in your back garden in the deckchair with your sunglasses on and study the clouds for thirty minutes. They are pushing and shoving rising and falling inside those clouds these two lines are being modified as you watch them just think of the red and green lines from the chart, the cloud forms at one place and dissipates in another part of the sky. This is nature in the living atmosphere.

    If you live in and around Daventry or the Midlands this is what is going over your head every day, maybe 800 per day going to Northern England and Scotland and another 2000 crossing the Atlantic. If we assume a mean of 3 engines per aircraft that over 8,000 engines per day going over your head. Are we starting to get this into prospective…


    Contrail from Qantas A380 at dawn over the South China Sea.

    The problem is that this is quite a rare video and 99.9% of people will have never see or understand what is going on here..but you do….. Then someone mentions the C word. That is C of Chemical and C for Chemtrail and now they (whoever they are) are spraying and poisoning us. Then we read comments like OMG Look WTF Proof 100% !!! its George Bush poisoning us!!!
    Last edited by Fred259; 4th May 2011 at 21:41.

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  24. Link to Post #16
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Hi Fred,

    Indeed, the ground has finally thawed here, and even though we did get some snow a few days ago, I think spring is coming soon! Time for gardening. Hope there's not too much aluminum in the soil! I might have to go shopping at Monsanto's new seed store, the one where they sell seeds genetically engineered to grow in soil contaminated with extreme amounts of aluminum. (US patent # 7582809 )

    I want you to convince me Fred. I am listening, and I want you to keep trying. I think concentrating on the temperature differentials in the sky and the increased air traffic (which I think are the major two points you've been stressing) are a blind alley. You are familiar with crop dusters, right? Are you saying that there is an engineering problem that would prevent a higher altitude jet aircraft from dispersing chemicals?

    Soil scientists can measure levels of aluminum, and can isolate layers for sampling. It is forensic science, not wild-eyed crazy people thinking up new things to be be frightened by.

    The aluminum is there, in very high concentrations, and it is a new phenomenon. Where do you think it comes from?

    Monsanto did spend the money and time to patent a seed resistant to aluminum. Why do you think they did that?

    Aircraft can and do spray chemicals, and that's not rubbish.

    So, staying away from temperature differentials confusing people into believing that contrails are chemtrails or that their memory (and photographs) of blue skies has been replaced by memories (and photographs) of blue-gray skies, what do you think is the story on the outrageous increase in aluminum particulates, and how did it get here?

    Dennis
    Last edited by Dennis Leahy; 4th May 2011 at 21:50. Reason: silly typo!


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    Great Britain Avalon Member Fred259's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Ilie Pandia (here)
    Hello Fred,

    No need to be rude.
    No Im not being rude, he’s out of order, he’s winding me up

    Quote Posted by Ilie Pandia (here)
    Quote Posted by Fred259
    John aircraft have no means whatsoever of spraying chemicals from the air, so please stop believing this.
    That statement cannot be correct in my view.
    Ok prove it…

    Liie, You have here a forum with 2,000 + members many who have been deceived and tricked. They look to the skies and see trails and they think the government are spraying.

    This is not happening and Im trying to demonstrate that they are victims of the NWO, and don’t fall for this nonsense.

    It matters not to me if they believe it or not. I just don’t like to see people being fooled especially by the criminals…
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 4th May 2011 at 23:08. Reason: fix quote'ing

  27. Link to Post #18
    Ireland Avalon Member Amer's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote This is not happening and Im trying to demonstrate that they are victims of the NWO, and don’t fall for this nonsense.
    Bear with me Fred, I'm slow on processing information, but my interest is genuine so please explain it to me - Why do they want us to believe we're being sprayed on ?
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 4th May 2011 at 23:10. Reason: fix quote'ing
    Know Thyself

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    Avalon Member john.d's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Im fairly sure its not atmospheric pressure because as i was watching the planes today leaving a mess in the sky , i also watched planes with normal contrails . Surely that blows the argument out of the window . And by the way Fred , i think your rude and arrogant . There is no need for it either . People are entitled to their opinions , and i for one dont agree with yours .

    John

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    Avalon Member Eikoor21's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    So what can be done here?
    Meditation is a good option to strengthen your inner energies
    In my opinion, our conscious being is stronger than all of this.
    No matter what, we must strengthen our hearts to lead us correctly
    The mind and our senses can deeply fool us, as well with all this controversy and information tugging at us from different directions.
    In the end i am also confused at times when i reason with my mind.
    opinions anybody?

    -Great love

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