Chemtrails don't exist

[nearing]

Excuse me if this has already been posted, but I don't have time to read all of these pages to find out. This credentialed and respected scientist says chemtrails indeed do exist and are being used for weather modification (so is HAARP).

Sorry, Fred, you are wrong on this issue. But I love you none-the-less.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=I0JhrDgepyk

[Fred259]

Posted by nearing (here)
Excuse me if this has already been posted, but I don't have time to read all of these pages to find out. This credentialed and respected scientist says chemtrails indeed do exist and are being used for weather modification (so is HAARP).

Sorry, Fred, you are wrong on this issue. But I love you none-the-less.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=I0JhrDgepyk

With respect I am not wrong, just don’t worry about them.

What has happened is that as the size of contrails have increased due to larger engines, and the rapid increase of air traffic over the last decade, those who seek to control your mind invented this ludicrous notion that aircraft were capable of spraying a human population. This is grossly irresponsible as aircraft have no means whatsoever to do this. You just have to accept that this is sound engineering fact.

The second point relating to the video is that you have to understand this man has been brought in to promote chemtrails. They want you to believe this. They want to control you. They want to make you scared. If you listen carefully all he is doing is reading from a paper and from time to time providing an explanation. I could do that and so could you. It’s quite ridiculous.

Turning to the question of weather modification. I agree provided the correct atmospheric conditions exist, excessive contrails will in time spread to cirrostratus clouds or a covering. This is a problem and engine manufacturers are working to find a solution to eliminate this. It does need to be clearly understood that excessive cloud cover is not caused by any chemicals though; rather it’s a natural formation.

What this is Nearing is complete misinformation. You never used to believe in this nonsense so why now? You think you are awake and informed about these issues, but in reality you have been fooled, they are dumbing you down.

The ptp now have you under control. This is further confirmed where you add at the end of your sentence (so is HAARP) How do you know that HAARP is capable of weather modification? Where you involved in the project? Do you have any serious scientific papers on the subject? HAARP just like chemtrails is another grossly overstated scare tactic. I have no idea what HAARP is all about, however I do understand VLF, I’ve even used VLF on many occasions, so I do struggle to understand how a radio wave can be used to modify the weather?

What you must do is think with a clear head and ask yourself, do I want to be controlled in this way. If the answer is yes then continue being dumbed down. My contribution on this thread is to stop you being dumbed down and to get you to think for yourself, just as you did before they introduced all this nonsense.

The sad reality is that you could spend a lifetime being concerned about something that is perfectly natural. When you go to your grave you will be worrying about chemtrails. The contrails aren’t ever going to be going away, so the sooner you stop believing this nonsense the better, not for my benefit but for yours. Don’t be a victim don’t allow the ptb to control you. They are not as powerful as they would like you to think. Stay safe….

[nearing]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by nearing (here)
Excuse me if this has already been posted, but I don't have time to read all of these pages to find out. This credentialed and respected scientist says chemtrails indeed do exist and are being used for weather modification (so is HAARP).

Sorry, Fred, you are wrong on this issue. But I love you none-the-less.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=I0JhrDgepyk

With respect I am not wrong, just don’t worry about them.

What has happened is that as the size of contrails have increased due to larger engines, and the rapid increase of air traffic over the last decade, those who seek to control your mind invented this ludicrous notion that aircraft were capable of spraying a human population. This is grossly irresponsible as aircraft have no means whatsoever to do this. You just have to accept that this is sound engineering fact.

The second point relating to the video is that you have to understand this man has been brought in to promote chemtrails. They want you to believe this. They want to control you. They want to make you scared. If you listen carefully all he is doing is reading from a paper and from time to time providing an explanation. I could do that and so could you. It’s quite ridiculous.

Turning to the question of weather modification. I agree provided the correct atmospheric conditions exist, excessive contrails will in time spread to cirrostratus clouds or a covering. This is a problem and engine manufacturers are working to find a solution to eliminate this. It does need to be clearly understood that excessive cloud cover is not caused by any chemicals though; rather it’s a natural formation.

What this is Nearing is complete misinformation. You never used to believe in this nonsense so why now? You think you are awake and informed about these issues, but in reality you have been fooled, they are dumbing you down.

The ptp now have you under control. This is further confirmed where you add at the end of your sentence (so is HAARP) How do you know that HAARP is capable of weather modification? Where you involved in the project? Do you have any serious scientific papers on the subject? HAARP just like chemtrails is another grossly overstated scare tactic. I have no idea what HAARP is all about, however I do understand VLF, I’ve even used VLF on many occasions, so I do struggle to understand how a radio wave can be used to modify the weather?

What you must do is think with a clear head and ask yourself, do I want to be controlled in this way. If the answer is yes then continue being dumbed down. My contribution on this thread is to stop you being dumbed down and to get you to think for yourself, just as you did before they introduced all this nonsense.

The sad reality is that you could spend a lifetime being concerned about something that is perfectly natural. When you go to your grave you will be worrying about chemtrails. The contrails aren’t ever going to be going away, so the sooner you stop believing this nonsense the better, not for my benefit but for yours. Don’t be a victim don’t allow the ptb to control you. They are not as powerful as they would like you to think. Stay safe….

Fred, who said that I was worried about them? I am not. I know that TPTW are acting like rats backed into a corner and throwing ALL of their weapons at us. I find it a little amusing. They have already lost.

But the fact remains that these things are real. it is happening.

[Fred259]

Fred, who said that I was worried about them? I am not. I know that TPTW are acting like rats backed into a corner and throwing ALL of their weapons at us. I find it a little amusing. They have already lost.

But the fact remains that these things are real. it is happening.

No, I say again they are not real. They are not spraying. It’s not happening. Period.

You have No evidence other that a complete load of rubbish posted on forums.

You do not know what you are talking about, but you absolutely insist you are right because you have been conditioned. That’s my point..

Post on something you know about, that you can share… anything but don’t make irresponsible statements on subjects you know nothing about. Is that not reasonable….

[jc71]

Hi K626,

Apologies if everyone has already seen this. I am new to this subject based on what I notice in the skies in South East England.

I can add that tonight, the skies are as bad as I have ever seen. And it looks like chemtrails to me. It could of course be partly volcanic cloud, but I don't think so.

So I agree with you.

What I can't quite yet believe is that the planes are spraying from independent spraying devices as per the earlier youtube on this thread. The planes I see are making what look like normal contrails until you see that they linger around and spread into a mist that you can see for minutes, sometimes hours afterwards and look like they are falling closer to the ground. I have pictures from tonight that might show this to some extent.

I was wondering in my last post: "Could there be elements being added to normal aviation fuel that behave differently to the way they did in the past"? I would be interested if anyone has any thoughts or knowledge of that.

Thanks for trying to help me understand. I want to believe it is natural as per Fred's stance. I am currently not fully convinced.

Regards,

J

Posted by K626 (here)

Posted by jc71 (here)
Thought everyone might be interested in this:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FiUMfsR28SM

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FiUMf...layer_embedded

This is not relating to commercial aircraft, but if they can do it from military jets, then it can be done from larger aircraft presumably.

Do you think it is possible to mix additional elements into the jet fuel so that they come out in the contrails - i.e. converting normal contrails to chemtrails?

Just a thought. I am not an expert by any means.

J

This has been around for about a year this vid and its a distraction ie military experiment and so on...The chemtrailing of Germany is nothing of the kind it is massive in its scope and
done all through the summer months from huge tanker planes (based in Belgium and of American origin). You can hardly see the sun on summer days once it gets to the afternoon.

cheers

K

[nearing]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Fred, who said that I was worried about them? I am not. I know that TPTW are acting like rats backed into a corner and throwing ALL of their weapons at us. I find it a little amusing. They have already lost.

But the fact remains that these things are real. it is happening.

No, I say again they are not real. They are not spraying. It’s not happening. Period.

You have No evidence other that a complete load of rubbish posted on forums.

You do not know what you are talking about, but you absolutely insist you are right because you have been conditioned. That’s my point..

Post on something you know about, that you can share… anything but don’t make irresponsible statements on subjects you know nothing about. Is that not reasonable….

Fred, there is a man, named Clifford Carnicom, who lives in my town. Have you heard of him?

the founder and President of the Carnicom Institute, a non-profit research and educational organization that is devoted to environmental and health issues. Clifford also worked as a technical research scientist acting in a professional capacity supporting analysis and development of major Department of Defense physical and weapons modeling systems, with extensive computer programming and system application development experience. He has held a Top Secret/SCI clearance. He was appointed for and completed two years of intensive graduate level studies in mathematics, statistics, computer science, and geodesy under the auspices of the Department of Defense.

Clifford has been a federal employee of the United States government for 15 years within 3 agencies, including the Department of Defense, The Bureau of Land Management, and the United States Forest Service.

Clifford was the Defense Mapping Agency Aerospace Center Employee of the Year, Supervisor of the Year, and he received the Geodetic Sciences Departmental Award for outstanding technical, managerial, and cost effective performance.

I think he has the creds, along with his colleagues at eh Institute, to make the claim that they are spraying and what is in this spray isn't good for humans. You may want to take a look at his site and see if he knows what he is talking about since you seems to think I am conditioned and am irresponsible.

Here is his site:

Carnicom Institute

There are a number of articles there.

And Fred, although you have personally attacked me and my character - I still love you.

[dan i el]

[QUOTE=Fred259;227307]

You have No evidence other that a complete load of rubbish posted on forums.

Contrail Science devotees akin to Jazzroc et al are often, if not always, want to use repetitious circular arguments appropriating science to quash valid observations. That is my opinion.

As a pilot and a proponent/advocate of pure science and theory, Fred259, could you answer a simple question asked from an alterior perspective of logic and simple observation?

Q: Can supersaturation occur within a matter of moments? Further, is it realistic to claim that the effects of Rayleigh scattering ( ie. light refraction conditions allowing higher visibility of aircraft) can occur simultaneously with rapid supersaturation?

eg. relatively clear sky then in a matter of literally 10 minutes or less, over a score of clearly observable aircraft each leaving persistent trails in curves "x's" etc which then coalesce into a cirrostratus covering across the visible sky.

I will rephrase the question in efforts to ensure clarity:

Can supersaturation occur extremely rapidly in a matter of 10 minutes or less and if you say that is possible, is it likely that the effects of Rayleigh scattering be simultaneously observed and this on innumerable occasions at more often than not, closely around the same times of day.

thanks

[jc71]

Hi Steve,

Yes fair point. Maybe it was a bit off topic. But I guess that the technology being used might be quite similar. Delivery from a larger plane would presumably be easier than from a jet. It is a response to some earlier posts that say this type of thing is not possible.

Something is happening in our skies for sure. What it is or it what it means is not entirely clear.

It could be to help us, it could be to harm us, it could be to cool down the earth, it could be to warm up the earth, it could be to reflect hologram UFOs, it could be to poison the ground, it could be a figment of my imagination. I don't know the answers. That is what I am hoping to learn more about on this this thread.

Thanks for sharing your info. I will continue to share mine for what it is worth :-)

Regards,

J

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Hi JC 71 Thanks for vid something out is better than nothing, but its not fighter jets trailing as we all know may be a honest mistake just put in for effect. Still its calmed down here the wind which has been quite strong all day has blown some of them trails eastwards, but not all. The sun is out and it is a lovely evening.....cheers Steve.

[Fred259]

Fred, there is a man, named Clifford Carnicom, who lives in my town. Have you heard of him?

The founder and President of the Carnicom Institute, a non-profit research and educational organization that is devoted to environmental and health issues. Clifford also worked as a technical research scientist acting in a professional capacity supporting analysis and development of major Department of Defense physical and weapons modeling systems, with extensive computer programming and system application development experience. He has held a Top Secret/SCI clearance. He was appointed for and completed two years of intensive graduate level studies in mathematics, statistics, computer science, and geodesy under the auspices of the Department of Defense.
Clifford has been a federal employee of the United States government for 15 years within 3 agencies, including the Department of Defense, The Bureau of Land Management, and the United States Forest Service.
Clifford was the Defense Mapping Agency Aerospace Center Employee of the Year, Supervisor of the Year, and he received the Geodetic Sciences Departmental Award for outstanding technical, managerial, and cost effective performance.

I think he has the creds, along with his colleagues at eh Institute, to make the claim that they are spraying and what is in this spray isn't good for humans. You may want to take a look at his site and see if he knows what he is talking about

Yes I have studied Carnicom in great details. He is a very knowledgeable and clever person but sadly disinformation agent working for the other side spreading this nonsense. He knows precisely what he is doing and is very very clever about it. If you scroll back the details are on this thread

I would love to meet with these people face to face and expose them for what they are.

Since you seems to think I am conditioned and am irresponsible.

I didn’t say that, I said don’t be conditioned by this rubbish dont believe it, why be a victim. I didn’t say you were irresponsible. I said they were irresponsible.

And Fred, although you have personally attacked me and my character - I still love you.

I have not attacked you. I have been very clear in what I have said. The fact that you accuse me of attacking you explains the way you are thinking. If you don’t like my message it’s an attack, a strange looking cloud its HAARP, a contrail becomes a chemtrail.

Write about your home state I would be really interested in learning about where you live and new things…. anything rather than reading something you’ve just copied from Carnicom for example!

[nearing]

Me:

Since you seems to think I am conditioned and am irresponsible.

You:

I didn’t say that, I said don’t be conditioned by this rubbish dont believe it, why be a victim. I didn’t say you were irresponsible. I said they were irresponsible. I have not attacked you.

Posted by Fred259 (here)
You have No evidence other that a complete load of rubbish posted on forums.

You do not know what you are talking about, but you absolutely insist you are right because you have been conditioned. That’s my point..

Post on something you know about, that you can share… anything but don’t make irresponsible statements on subjects you know nothing about. Is that not reasonable….

Clearly you did attack my character AND you said I was conditioned and that I was being irresponsible.

I don't know where you get off doing this on a forum such as this, but I am not here to fight. I am also not about to go and take photos of the chemtrails here and upload them or give you case histories of patients here who have fallen victim to them all to appease you. And I know Mr Carnicom and he is a very upstanding individual, and not at all what you accuse him of being. Shame on you. I am wondering about YOUR motives with all of this.

I can and will say ANYTHING I choose to here. If you don't like it, then I suggest that you not read my posts.

We have nothing more to say to each other, so don't bother. Love to you and yours.

[dan i el]

Pretty simple questions, Fred and I wasn't being rude. If you are debunking a theory for the greater good, then please show due diligence in answering all civil questions.

[Referee]

What about the de classified cloud seeding in the Vietnam War. The US has admitted that they intentionally extended the monsoon by four or so weeks? I am sure they need planes that were capable in doing so with military efficiency. If the US had the technology then you KNOW it is vastly superior by now.

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=dan i el;227321][QUOTE=Fred259;227307][QUOTE]

Q: Can supersaturation occur within a matter of moments? Further, is it realistic to claim that the effects of Rayleigh scattering ( ie. light refraction conditions allowing higher visibility of aircraft) can occur simultaneously with rapid supersaturation?

eg. relatively clear sky then in a matter of literally 10 minutes or less, over a score of clearly observable aircraft each leaving persistent trails in curves "x's" etc which then coalesce into a cirrostratus covering across the visible sky.

I will rephrase the question in efforts to ensure clarity:

Can supersaturation occur extremely rapidly in a matter of 10 minutes or less and if you say that is possible, is it likely that the effects of Rayleigh scattering be simultaneously observed and this on innumerable occasions at more often than not, closely around the same times of day.

Yes. However saturated atmosphere might be a few minutes only, I would tend to say much less. If it’s supersaturated it will be instantly.

Rayleigh scattering, Yes I would agree with you Daniel, scattering can and will change appearances. The degree of change will be proportional to speed, and angle of azimuth.

[Fred259]

Posted by dan i el (here)
Pretty simple questions, Fred and I wasn't being rude. If you are debunking a theory for the greater good, then please show due diligence in answering all civil questions.

Sorry… I was just putting the car in the garage before the nagging starts !

[Fred259]

Posted by Referee (here)
What about the de classified cloud seeding in the Vietnam War. The US has admitted that they intentionally extended the monsoon by four or so weeks? I am sure they need planes that were capable in doing so with military efficiency. If the US had the technology then you KNOW it is vastly superior by now.

I agree, I have a friend who went cloud seeding (a women I might add) in Niger, so yes this is not unheard of in developing nations, and the US of course.

Weather, clouds etc are created in the troposphere that is up to around 18,000 feet, above that the relative humidity decreases rapidly, the air is dry and very cold. This is why high altitude clouds are generally very thin and sparse.

I understand that generally cloud seeding takes place around 10,000feet.

[Referee]

I think you are missing one point in all of this they are adding energy via microwave in to this equation. They excite the moisture and then seed it. The vapor rises and this factor allows more particles to mass together through ionization. by exciting them they can hold them in the air and build the system.

You can theoretically reach normal supersaturation and it will rain instantly however, when you introduce energy you can manipulate the threshold of supersaturation. Holding it in the atmosphere longer.

[Fred259]

Posted by nearing (here)
And I know Mr Carnicom and he is a very upstanding individual, and not at all what you accuse him of being. Shame on you. I am wondering about YOUR motives with all of this.

I agreed with you about Carnicom nearing, I said he was very knowledgeable and very clever. He knows precisely what he is talking about. The problem is he takes known scientific fact and applies the opposite. Often this might just be the change of a word which gives a completely different meaning. In addition he argues that relative humidity is a deception with is 100% red flag I have to say. Without relative humidity life would not exist on this planet.

[Arrowwind]

I came out of work one day around noon, a beautiful sunny day to find the sky above Salt Lake City criss crossed with what I believed were chem trails. It looked like a freaking checkerboard box design... the flight path to the international airport is about 5 miles away.. I watch flights go in and out of there al the time in a south to north or visa vera pattern across salt lake..... few contrails from the large airliners, never mind what I saw this day. It took a full 1.5 hours for this pattern to dissolve.

I spent some time in Mexico recently in San Miguel Allende... You hardly ever see or hear a plane go over this city.
One morning I got up very early, at the crack of dawn and looked out my door. The sky was filled with 7 huge trails.. very wide going from horizon to horizon in different directions... blazing pink in the sunrise color. Soon they were gone and none seen for the remaining month I was there..

Those who think contrails and chemtrails are the same I would say are quite ill prepared to deal with life... as their denial will keep them forever from finding reality. There is immense documenation of the issue now. Will I dig it up for you? No way. I've better things to do with my day. If you are in denial you will never find documentation anyway no matter what I present to you or even by those who have done the dirty deed and are spilling the beans.

like the ostrich with the head in the sand, that cannot find the world that surrounds him daily

Denial is more than a river in Egypt

[Fred259]

Posted by Referee (here)
I think you are missing one point in all of this they are adding energy via microwave in to this equation. They excite the moisture and then seed it. The vapor rises and this factor allows more particles to mass together through ionization. by exciting them they can hold them in the air and build the system.

You can theoretically reach normal supersaturation and it will rain instantly however, when you introduce energy you can manipulate the threshold of supersaturation. Holding it in the atmosphere longer.

Sorry Referee, yes I was missing the point, I thought you were referring to aerial applications. But yes I agree with the Microwave. I would think your explanation here would support whatever HAARP is. I can’t understand how the other end of the RF spectrum can change weather, but I agree that perhaps SHF might be able to. Do you happen to know?

[dan i el]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by dan i el (here)
Pretty simple questions, Fred and I wasn't being rude. If you are debunking a theory for the greater good, then please show due diligence in answering all civil questions.

Sorry… I was just putting the car in the garage before the nagging starts !

no worries, i just thought as it was the second time I asked...

The whole visible skyline would supersaturate instantly? I got sidetracked and am going offline now..I will reply though when online. Thanks for the reply.