Chemtrails don't exist

[aranuk]

Fred you have presented an overwhelming testimony my friend. If I could possibly remember all the scientific data and proof you have mentioned I feel I could deserve a Bsc 2/1 anywhere!

Stan

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I have seen videos where Alex Jones has been accused of a few more things than a dis-informationalist.

Stan

[mosquito]

What a long, occasionally tiresome read !
Here's my (hopefully only) contribution.
I too, have never bought into the idea of "chemtrails", as far as I'm concerned they're contrails, nothing more. Fred has provided an astounding amount of evidence in order to explain the phenomenon, I'm amazed he has the patience, I certainly wouldn't have ! The quality of his posts suggests he's either an aeronautical engineer or a pilot (forgive me if I'm wrong or if you've already stated which).

I am and always have been open to having my mind changed, but none of the "evidence" presented here by the "chemtrail" brigade has done that. Photos of light aircraft spraying crops ARE NOT evidence of large aircraft being fitted with spray equipment ! Several people have reported having seen planes "criss-cross" the sky - have you really ? Have you seen them turn around 180 degrees and fly back and forth ? Or have you simply seen a build up of lingering ice crystals, left by large numbers of aircraft in congested airspace ? NONE of the photos presented here is evidence of wide-spread, high-altitude chemical spraying. I AM prepared to believe that some form of high-altitude spraying goes on in different parts of the world, but from the evidence I've seen, and that has been presented here I do not accept it as a world-wide conspiracy.
In exactly the same way that the mass-media feeds the watchers with nonsense, sometimes the alternative media, inadvertantly, does the same, so I respectfully suggest we keep our minds open and examine the evidence on both sides before reaching conclusions.

[noprophet]

I'm still very confused by this video...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=essXGwJjSA0

[Gustav]

That is really messed up.. I recognize the lining btw. I similar lining in the sky a few days ago above my house. But there was definetely a plane 'attached' to it... Visible with the naked eye

[Fred259]

Posted by noprophet (here)
I'm still very confused by this video...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=essXGwJjSA0

The video was shot over Holland at 15.00 GMT (for arguments sake), so what direction is the aircraft going? West I would say heading up towards Scotland. Why? 15.00GMT x15=225degrees from North. This means the sun is 225degrees from North.

Look at noprophet’s video, where is the sun? Over the roof tops, so that is 225degrees from north. Where is North? Estimate 135degrees around clockwise so I would say around the 2 O’clock position, that’s north. So this aircraft is definitely heading west towards the top of Scotland and then over the Atlantic.. Its 4 engined and and has come from the East so I would say perhaps Emirates or Singapore Airlines going to the US.

Why does the aircraft disappear? First it’s far away, and moving at 7.5 miles per minute or 760 feet per second look at the acute angle he is filming at, so this object is not going to be like an everyday object is it.. The sun is shinning across the aircraft from left to right, and what we on the ground are experiencing is parallax error. It’s a bit like sitting in the passenger seat and looking at the speedometer, it reads 70mph, but if you were sitting in the drivers seat it would read 75mph. NB. Tell that to the next police officer should you be stopped. I’m suffering from parallax error constable!

Parallax Error.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax


Perhaps I should explain this by way of a story. If you are escaping from the NWO, this may save your life.

John Peters & Adrian Nicol an RAF Tornado crew were shot down in the first gulf war. After bombing an Iraqi target they turned for home, low level probably around 240feet when they took incoming small arms fire which started an engine fire and knocked out the hydraulic system. Peters struggled keeping the right way up. The fire was now spreading, and with no control it’s definitely time now to leave the office.

After they both ejected safely they ended up half unconscious under a parachute before thumping down into a hot Iraqi treeless desert. People talk about ejecting as if it’s like getting up from a seat. The reality is the extreme forces knock the stuffing out of you and you end up dazed confused, and totally disorientated.

Peters & Nicol had to escape or be captured and tortured, so this is not a good situation we are in. They had come from a base in Saudi which is south of Iraq, so what direction do they start walking? What way is south? It’s not a good idea walking in the direction of the people you have just bombed!

Fortunately both were taught about this during training and so this is top drawer RAF survival and escape procedure. Equally it applies to you, if you are escaping or perhaps lost, even at sea, all points around the world, 100% genuine and never fails.

We agree 24 hours per day.
We agree the earth is a circle so 360 degrees.
We agree we have a sun.

The earth moves around the sun at 15 degrees per hour.
(Check 15degrees x 24 hrs =360degrees or 360/24=15, its the same.)

360 degrees are the points of the compass.

It doesn’t matter where you are in the world; put the local time back to GMT on your watch.

Multiply that number by 15.
Example its 11.00GMT while I type this so 11x15=165 degrees from North.

The sun is 165 degrees from North.

Face the sun and measure out by estimate minus 90deg that’s east then minus another 90 deg that’s North. In this example while I looked at the sun North was behind my back.

You have now found north. (just like Peters & Nicol.)

Where is Saudi, South, so fix a point on the horizon and walk for one hour and then do the calculation again Remember after one hour the earth will have moved on another 15degrees.

Agreed? If the NWO crack down in Nebraska, and Kansas is a free state make sure you make your escape heading south wont you! We have been here before; allied airmen shot down over Europe always escaped via Switzerland which was neutral, then through France via the resistance and back to England. History is repeating itself.

[heyokah]

Posted by noprophet (here)
I'm still very confused by this video...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=essXGwJjSA0

Hope that Fred259 can take the time to watch this and comment on the fact that there were 2 contrails and at the same time this....... well Fred259, what is this to your opinion?
Do you call this a contrail? Or are they spraying crobs over a town.....?

****

OH, SORRY FRED, I saw just now you gave the answer I actually expected from you.....

But still..... 2 short contrails and this very long one......

[Fred259]

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by noprophet (here)
I'm still very confused by this video...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=essXGwJjSA0

Hope that Fred259 can take the time to watch this and comment on the fact that there were 2 contrails and at the same time this....... well Fred259, what is this to your opinion?
Do you call this a contrail? Or are they spraying crobs over a town.....?

****

OH, SORRY FRED, I saw just now you gave the answer I actually expected from you.....

But still..... 2 short contrails and this very long one......

Hi Heyokah,

So you are on the Dutch French border lets agree Maastricht area + - 50 miles.

Check out this video of live traffic over the Benelux.

http://planefinder.net/ And check it again at 18.00GMT.

Check out London. If any of these aircraft were spraying a human population not only would they be spraying themselves but the British Army Parachute Regiment would be kicking down the door of Downing Street and taking these criminals at gun point. (Hint !)

………something like this Heyokah,….

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1OhjAhWOpsA

The long trail is an over flight routing out over the North Sea. He is high. The other trails will be lower and a completely different atmosphere. The atmosphere is living; it’s like a coral reef. Fly over Amsterdam contrails will form, then over the bulb field’s contrails stop. The city gives of heat, this changes the atmosphere,

Don’t be a victim; they are fooling us playing tricks with our mind. They are evil people, but we will prevail. Times are hard and things are bad, but better times will come again. They are not as powerful as they think.

If you go to Camelot and look in the library for the interview and video B&K did in Montreaux Switzerland with Michael St Clair. It’s a very truthful video IMHO.

St Clair isn’t a goof, Gentleman, Swiss army officer, Lawyer, Consultant he knows the score. Listen to him, he says yes bad times will come but good times will also follow..

We have a fantastic future…but first we need to deal with the federalists Herman Van Rompuy and the new world order.

[heyokah]

These ones I took in the middle of France, a remote aria, no towns or airports around....

[observer]

There are always two sides to every story, the official version, and the version that carefully examines the evidence.

There is no denying what Fred259 documents is a plausible explanation for contrails - even the ones that seem to linger in the Sky for hours. However, none of what he is saying is addressing the facts as they are presented.

• First, the evidence shows that the chemtrail spraying is being done through manifolds at the trailing edge of the wings of these tanker aircraft. No (informed) one is suggesting the chemicals are being discharged through the engines. The spray is combining outside of the engines in the exhaust stream from the manifolds that discharge at the trailing edge of the wings.
  
  Evidence - Exhibit A (video showing manifold discharge of chemical agent)
  
  
  Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWnXQsgOU
  
  
  https://youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWn...eature=related
  
  
• Next, it doesn't matter on what day one sees the chemtrails, one can also observe aircraft leaving (either) no contrail at all, or very often leaving a short contrail - all within the same apparent airspace as those unmarked military tankers leaving chemtrails. Atmospheric "inversion" cannot account for the reason that commercial aircraft leave contrails - the obvious result of Fred259's argument; military type aircraft leave chemtrails in the same exact sky - the obvious conclusion of the evidential trail.
  
  Evidence - Exhibit 'B' (video showing short and long contrails along with crisscross markings of pattern spraying - chemtrails)
  Note: The 'turn-around' photo in the clip, thus answering an earlier question regarding evidence of the same planes making the cross-hatched patterns.
  
  
  Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lGkYxdkjfxE
  
  
  https://youtube.com/watch?v=lGkYxdkjfxE
  
  One can stipulate to the conclusion (Fred259's argument) that not every line in the sky is a chemtrail. One must be blind if one concludes that every line in the sky is a contrail.
  
  
• Next, Fred259 looked very briefly at the lab evidence, wherein he concluded the presenter was a "disinformation agent" and "dismissed" his findings.
  
  Well then, lets just "dismiss" all of the independent lab tests conducted around the States that have found excessive traces of aluminum and barium (along with other obscene mixtures of compounds) at Fred259's say-so.
  
  The chemicals being discovered in these lab tests are causing health problems. High blood pressure is up over the last ten years. Upper respiratory illness is up. Need I go-on?
  
  Evidence - Exhibit 'C': (Just one of many videos I could have chosen to demonstrate the lab result issue) Disinformation??? You Decide...
  
  
  
  Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RFpS1yVioLM
  
  
  https://youtube.com/watch?v=RFpS1yVioLM
  
  
• And Last, I personally have observed the unmarked military type tankers are the culprit. I have taken to carrying a pair of binoculars with me, and any time I see obvious chemtrail patterns, I look at the plane through the binoculars. Invariably, the plane is unmarked and white. Hoarfrost.... indeed !!!
  
  Evidence - Exhibit 'D': (History channel documentary linking 'chemtrailing' to the H.A.A.R.P. project)
  
  
  Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NgynYoVnkvM
  
  
  https://youtube.com/watch?v=NgynYoVnkvM

I've been a member of the Avalon Forum since back when it was the original Avalon Forum. This issue of Chemtrails has been broached in many threads. I don't recall any individual in any of those threads so determined - to the point of an obsession - to discredit the evidence that is available.

I personally, am more than willing to stipulate to the fact that not every line in the sky is a chemtrail. However, the evidence is overwhelming that there is a program in process. Wake-up. The brain functions much like a parachute; it works best when its open.

Fred259, it is now time for you to come clean.

• Either you are an agent sent in here to shed confusion on this chemtrail/contrail issue.
• Or, you are just so blinded by your 'Oxford Template of Learning' conditioning.
• Which is it?

[heyokah]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by noprophet (here)
I'm still very confused by this video...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=essXGwJjSA0

Hope that Fred259 can take the time to watch this and comment on the fact that there were 2 contrails and at the same time this....... well Fred259, what is this to your opinion?
Do you call this a contrail? Or are they spraying crobs over a town.....?

****

OH, SORRY FRED, I saw just now you gave the answer I actually expected from you.....

But still..... 2 short contrails and this very long one......

Hi Heyokah,

So you are on the Dutch French border lets agree Maastricht area + - 50 miles.

Check out this video of live traffic over the Benelux.

http://planefinder.net/ And check it again at 18.00GMT.

Check out London. If any of these aircraft were spraying a human population not only would they be spraying themselves but the British Army Parachute Regiment would be kicking down the door of Downing Street and taking these criminals at gun point. (Hint !)

………something like this Heyokah,….

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1OhjAhWOpsA

Do you want to scare ME ?
You like video's like that !?
Come on Fred, that's not how things are to be handled......

[Fred259]

Do you want to scare ME ?
You like video's like that !?
Come on Fred, that's not how things are to be handled......

We are dealing with the "New World Order" my friend! They vaposised 2,900 office workers one day in September 2001, maybe its the only way they understand. I do take your point though.

"The horse can be made ready for battle but victory will be in the day of the lord".

[heyokah]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Do you want to scare ME ?
You like video's like that !?
Come on Fred, that's not how things are to be handled......

We are dealing with the "New World Order" my friend! They vaporised 2,900 office workers one day in September 2001, maybe its the only way they understand. I do take your point though.

"The horse can be made ready for battle but victory will be in the day of the lord".

That will not be an answer to that d..m poison they are dumping on us at this very moment.

Hope victory will be in my day, or that of my children.

And that 'day of the Lord'-thing will not keep me from my responsibility to point at the evil when-and where-ever I can.
Sorry for you Fred, but that says the Lord within me .......

[taurad]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Do you want to scare ME ?
You like video's like that !?
Come on Fred, that's not how things are to be handled......

We are dealing with the "New World Order" my friend! They vaposised 2,900 office workers one day in September 2001, maybe its the only way they understand. I do take your point though.

"The horse can be made ready for battle but victory will be in the day of the lord".

I've started to have a problem with this statement...the reason being
all sides wanting a NWO...
TPTB want a NWO because they're not happy with the slow
pace of their big plans, massive plans... Hence, a NWO is needed!

I don't like the old paradigm, I want a NWO, quite different
from the old one, and definitely contrary to the new attempted one...

Others looking for NWO in the between!

What a mess, starting with lingo in circulation,
ideas and concepts, facts stuck @ the bottom,
overshadowed by everything else!

Again, what a mess!

[Fred259]

Posted by observer (here)
There are always two sides to every story, the official version, and the version that carefully examines the evidence.

There is no denying what Fred259 documents is a plausible explanation for contrails - even the ones that seem to linger in the Sky for hours. However, none of what he is saying is addressing the facts as they are presented.

Hello Observer,

I don’t know what to say other than this is all alien to me and the industry I have worked in for the last thirty four years.

[*]First, the evidence shows that the chemtrail spraying is being done through manifolds at the trailing edge of the wings of these tanker aircraft. No (informed) one is suggesting the chemicals are being discharged through the engines. The spray is combining outside of the engines in the exhaust stream from the manifolds that discharge at the trailing edge of the wings.

In your first video, they talk about this KC-10 “tanker” aircraft. Yes these are modified DC-10 commercial aircraft used to air-air refueling, but they don’t have tanks. They want you to think that all the seats have been taken out and replaced with chemical tanks. The cabin is empty. The fuel comes from centerline and wing tanks just like any other aircraft. Its not possible to fit the cabin with tanks containing fuel it would be miles over its design weights etc and take off weight etc.

The aircraft is descending with the power right back he is trying to wash off speed.

The trails you see out the back is really vortices and a bit of exhaust. The engines are on idle,(almost).

They point to these nozzles; these are housings containing flap actuator motors’ valves and whatnot. They aren’t nozzles. I do suppose I should be honest here as I have Bills “integrity” thread ringing in my mind so what the hell, they also have DU counter balance weights inside those housings, fully contained and seal proof. DU mass is 1.5 greater than lead (I think) so they did use them in the past but these days they use tungsten.

Its not remotely possible to creep up like this on another aircraft, the crew up front know he is behind him, and I think the whole video is a disgrace. I do like the official logo tanker enemy and the cool music provided for your additional entertainment.

[*]Next, it doesn't matter on what day one sees the chemtrails, one can also observe aircraft leaving (either) no contrail at all, or very often leaving a short contrail

-

I agree. It’s entirely dependant on the state and relative humidity of the atmosphere.

28,000ft Relative humidity 60% No Cloud or contrail

30,000ft Relative humidity 100% Clouds & Contrails

32,000ft Relative humidity 70% No Clouds or Contrails

34,000ft Relative humidity 100% Clouds & Contrails

It’s a living atmospheres always changing think of it like a living coral reef.

All within the same apparent airspace as those unmarked military tankers leaving chemtrails.

See Above.

Atmospheric "inversion" cannot account for the reason that commercial aircraft leave contrails - the obvious result of Fred259's argument

I don’t think I used the word atmospheric inversions, Ive never heard of that before. Temperature inversions yes, but again I deliberately avoided talking about TI’s so as to keep to basic facts rather than confuse the issue.

If the dry bulb temp is +2C and the wet bulb temp +2C with 100% relative humidity in your backyard wherever you are, the atmosphere is supersaturated and mist will form.

Military type aircraft leave chemtrails in the same exact sky - the obvious conclusion of the evidential trail.

No. Most definitely not. I think you are saying that the commercial aircraft flies AtoB and the military aircraft flies under it and behind spraying chemicals. This doesn’t happen. Only in Hollywood my friend, you know that. Aircraft are controlled and have a radar squawk, and identification. It just doesn’t happen.

If the atmospheric conditions are right they will trail contrails.

If the atmospheric conditions are not right no contrail.

It doesn’t matter if its military or civilian, engines are engines. What matters is the state or condition of the atmosphere. Why not go to the public library or perhaps a college lecturer would confirm this with you.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=d9r3H4iHFZk

US Air Traffic Movements circa 5,000 per hour

(NB Look out for Holds or Stacks in NYC)

Evidence - Exhibit 'B' (video showing short and long contrails along with crisscross markings of pattern spraying - chemtrails)
Note: The 'turn-around' photo in the clip, thus answering an earlier question regarding evidence of the same planes making the cross-hatched patterns.

Standard Navigational Hold

This is a standard holding pattern over a navigational beacon. You are most persistent Observer; they are used for holding aircraft. Let’s say the navigational hold is on a north south axis. Fly towards the beacon and on passing over hit the stop watch and roll on 25 degrees of left bank. Continue for one minute, and roll level. Hit the stop watch again and fly for one minute on a heading of 180degrees(south) After one minute commence a left turn again for one minute and after sixty seconds have passed roll the wings level and fly towards the beacon again on a heading of due north 360 degrees. Continue holding till advised. Holds can go from 3,000 to 20,000feet.

This is what produces these holding patterns. In this photograph the upper wind has blown the trails across the sky.

[B][I]One can stipulate to the conclusion (Fred259's argument) that not every line in the sky is a chemtrail. One must be blind if one concludes that every line in the sky is a contrail.

No. Below I have included changes in engine size and design.This is where the confusion may be occurring. The ptb want you to think this these aircraft are spraying chemicals.Absolutely impossible.

Checkerboards Lines in the sky tic-tak-toe boards etc

This video explains the track in theory, and how separation is maintained.

These are airways where the aircraft are offset laterally 2,4,6 miles from track. Watch this short video from the CAA in London, it explains your points about "lines in the skies"

As Ive said previously it depends on the state of the atmosphere.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=g_a8bZGxaCc

Aircraft do NOT have spraying equipment installed. Period. If they did you would know about it and the industry would certainly know about it, even if it was being done covertly. We all get old and weary Observer and sometimes forgetful but we aren’t stupid either. It would be known. Remember you are talking about a highly regulated industry.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=sEZcBeE33wc

UK Air Traffic Movements circa 7,500 per day.


People wonder about the skies in the sixties, and compare them with now... I remember the 1960s as well...
[

This is a 1960s engine Rolls Royce Conway, 20,000lb trust gas turbine for the B707.

This is a 2010 engine Rolls Royce Trent 900 87,000 lb trust engine for the A380.

If you increase the engine power four fold don’t you think everything else will also increase, in shape and size?

[*]Next, Fred259 looked very briefly at the lab evidence, wherein he concluded the presenter was a "disinformation agent" and "dismissed" his findings.

Now you are being naughty Observer. I think if you check back you will find that I said I didn’t know about the Carnicom New Mexico test. How would I? But I did read his test report. In I said that lets assume he is correct, but given this is a worldwide problem according to some, can we have evidence of this in New York, New Orleans and New England. I don’t have any scientific knowledge so it would be wrong for me to dismiss these findings.

If as you say this is a serious problem and that aircraft are spraying appreciate that in any one hour of the day in North America something like 5,000 aircraft are in the air. So that’s a lot of spraying and we would then have a vast data base of problem sites.

We don’t have this.

In Europe no aluminium / barium has been found. I can’t speak for Australia.

What I did say however that the Carnicom analysis of the atmosphere and jet trails etc was balderdash. In fact what he has done is deliberately turn known science on *its head. That being the case why should I believe anything else on his site.

*Observer, it needs to be understood that around thirty of us have been investigating 9/11 for the last seven years. We wasted two years by looking at the internet. 95% of everything on the web relating to 9/11 is mis/dis information. Very serious sums of money are paid by so called reputable corporations to keep you looking left while the real truth is on the right.

Well then, lets just "dismiss" all of the independent lab tests conducted around the States that have found excessive traces of aluminum and barium (along with other obscene mixtures of compounds) at Fred259's say-so.

The chemicals being discovered in these lab tests are causing health problems. High blood pressure is up over the last ten years. Upper respiratory illness is up. Need I go-on?

Fine, where is the evidence, this should be a massive problem. Looking in the sky and blaming all you medical problems on jet trails changing the name to chemtrails and inventing all this nonsense is verging on buffoonery I would suggest. Maybe its exhaust fumes from your car, or fridge, what about the cat.! It’s quite ridiculous.

Evidence - Exhibit 'C': (Just one of many videos I could have chosen to demonstrate the lab result issue) Disinformation??? 200 million tons of aerosol to be sprayed.You Decide...

Exhibit C just really demonstrated my point, 200 million tons of aerosol chemical, think about that 200,000,000 tons. That a lot. Does this impress you?

Who has the contract to manufacture these chemicals? How are they distributed? This means that 547,000 tons of aerosol chemical is being sprayed per day….nearly 23,000 tons per hour for every hour of the year, does it sound right to you…….and no one in the industry knows about this? … lets move on…

[*]And Last, I personally have observed the unmarked military type tankers are the culprit. I have taken to carrying a pair of binoculars with me, and any time I see obvious chemtrail patterns,

We have discussed patterns. Hope it helps.

I look at the plane through the binoculars. Invariably, the plane is unmarked and white. Hoarfrost.... indeed !!!

Observer Hoarfrost is a known hazard to aviation. I provided you with the Wikipedia report. If you are unable to accept that I do understand. Regardless it does occur and again is a known hazard.

Evidence - Exhibit 'D': (History channel documentary linking 'chemtrailing' to the H.A.A.R.P. project)

Its not evidence. Produce some and let’s discuss it…. Credible evidence. What about a manual or wiring diagram for these aircraft pumps that are spraying vast amounts of chemicals… that’s evidence. Some Joe recording a video doesn’t constitute evidence, that’s what Im trying to expose.

I've been a member of the Avalon Forum since back when it was the original Avalon Forum. This issue of Chemtrails has been broached in many threads. I don't recall any individual in any of those threads so determined - to the point of an obsession - to discredit the evidence that is available.

I also have followed Avalon and Camalot since 2006 if I recall.

Fred259, it is now time for you to come clean.

• Either you are an agent sent in here to shed confusion on this chemtrail/contrail issue.
• Or, you are just so blinded by your 'Oxford Template of Learning' conditioning.
• Which is it?

This is the best question of the whole post!. You sound like my wife...

So let’s study the question. You have provided two options and I must decide which option and inform you. However you said rather revealingly “Which is it”

I do think this is important. It tells me the way your mind works. What if neither of the options fits. What do I do then? Decline or what? Perhaps this goes some way in explaining why you have difficulty accepting known science. It’s not your fault, you are a victim of these scoundrels who seek to control your mind, and Im trying to expose these scoundrels just as you are.

If I see them taking the P*** or any deception particularly where I have an understanding of the subject I will speak up. Would you rather I keep quite and leave you in manipulated bliss.

You say that Im spreading confusion. I would reject your comment rather I’m sharing with you my professional knowledge.

[mosquito]

The refusal of these people to accept Fred's evidence and years of experience is amazing !
I hope I reincarnate as a tree - they're more intelligent than humans

[DoubleHelix]

Fred in short are you saying the the whole chemtrail phenomenon is propaganda?

Every case presented is misconstrued and explainable through the atmospheric effects of jet fuel?

[chancy]

Hello Fred259:: I have followed this thread since the beginning and since I am not trying to convince you of anything maybe it's time for you to read my posts. I have read what you have said and it really has nothing to do with chemtrails. It's got everything to do with contrails and cloud formation(s). They are NOT the SAME THING. You are telling everyone in this thread that there are NO planes other than crop sprayers. That is downright a LIE. I am really getting tired of reading BS from YOU. IF this forum is for truth then let's talk truth. I gave you a website backing up the truth about a 747 aircraft owned by EVERGREEN Post #60 that does have jet aircraft full of spraying equipment and tanks throughout where the passenger sections would have been located. I have been in their aircraft and discussed what we are talking about here on this thread. They even agree that it's very much possible to spray chemicals from a 747. So if the company that owns and operates a 747 that can spray chemicals and or water why would you tell everyone that it's not possible? You must not have checked it out. I gave you a video of an jet aircraft spraying Post #51.
Since these jets are set up for spraying pretty much any liquid substance why are you telling everyone that it's not possible?

Your post #157 states having tanks in the jet are NOT POSSIBLE? and I quote from your post #157
"In your first video, they talk about this KC-10 “tanker” aircraft. Yes these are modified DC-10 commercial aircraft used to air-air refueling, but they don’t have tanks. They want you to think that all the seats have been taken out and replaced with chemical tanks. The cabin is empty. The fuel comes from centerline and wing tanks just like any other aircraft. Its not possible to fit the cabin with tanks containing fuel it would be miles over its design weights etc and take off weight etc.
The aircraft is descending with the power right back he is trying to wash off speed.
The trails you see out the back is really vortices and a bit of exhaust. The engines are on idle,(almost).
They point to these nozzles; these are housings containing flap actuator motors’ valves and whatnot. They aren’t nozzles. I do suppose I should be honest here as I have Bills “integrity” thread ringing in my mind so what the hell, they also have DU counter balance weights inside those housings, fully contained and seal proof. DU mass is 1.5 greater than lead (I think) so they did use them in the past but these days they use tungsten.
Its not remotely possible to creep up like this on another aircraft, the crew up front know he is behind him, and I think the whole video is a disgrace. I do like the official logo tanker enemy and the cool music provided for your additional entertainment."


As I have said above you must not have read my posts. It is possible and has been done and it is being done! All you had to do was look at the EVERGREEN website IF you don't like what you see on the tanker spraying videol. As I said you are talking about weather formations and we are talking about CHEMTRAILS. They are completely different and this thread is getting very old since as I said from my first post in this thread I am not trying to convince you of anything BUT You telling people out and out nonsense that it's not possible to spray from jets is getting to be old.
IF you want to talk about the weather and cloud formation this is not the thread. This is about chemtrails. The facts have been given and you just have not looked at them or you have ignored them. IF you did you wouldn't still be saying it's impossible to spray from jets as you have in post #157.
This thread is a waste of time if you are talking about weather and cloud formation and not chemtrails.
Everyone on the planet has seen a contrail but apparently from what you are saying the technology is not there to spray chemtrails. It's time to look at my posts....................maybe then you will see that it has nothing to do with contrails. It has everything to do with spraying chemicals from jets.
Regards,
Chancy

[Fred259]

Posted by DoubleHelix (here)
Fred in short are you saying the the whole chemtrail phenomenon is propaganda?

Every case presented is misconstrued and explainable through the atmospheric effects of jet fuel?

Absolutely. Yes.

This is an attack on the truth movement / alternative thinker / alternative media.

Because the vast majority of people don’t understand or care what comes from the back end of an engine, the criminals in the ptb are putting this about to destroy the truth movement. Shortly they will point us out as Morons’. Your not, so stop believing it it’s a Red Flag, Red Flag we are under attack..

Codex Alimentaraiates. What the hell is that? I genuinely didn’t know, until I met a women who started rabbiting on about these at a meeting. What are Alimentaraiates I said, what rubbish are you talking about women, get a grip for goodness sake, I said!

She said. You, sit here now !…. So I did….. and she explained that she had a health foods business that was being attacked by Big Pharma via the government. It soon became clear what was going on, and how Big Pharma were manipulating government and changing and in some cases banning the use of alternative medicines and remedies. It was a complete shock to me, but all part of the plan, just another bit of the jigsaw, one that I didn’t know even existed.

So over a coffee she told me about her Alimentaraiates and I told her about my engines! Lol my point being that two people from completely different industries were able to share knowledge and understanding.

[Fred259]

Posted by chancy (here)
Hello Fred259:: I have followed this thread since the beginning and since I am not trying to convince you of anything maybe it's time for you to read my posts.

Hello Clancy, thanks for posting..

I have read what you have said and it really has nothing to do with chemtrails. It's got everything to do with contrails and cloud formation(s). They are NOT the SAME THING.

They are the same thing Chancy, the public look up in the skies and see aircraft trails.

The trails are caused by metrological state or condition of the atmosphere, and combustion from jet engines.

The ptb have a misinformation campaign running to hood wink the public into thinking that they are been sprayed from the air, and so the word “chemtrail” was born.

You are telling everyone in this thread that there are NO planes other than crop sprayers.

Indeed. But also I do expect them to use some common sense.

7,500 aircraft per day pass through the skies the UK, something like 50,000 in the US, around 25,000 per day in Europe. I don’t have the figures for Australia or Canada.
All of these aircraft may produce large contrails if the atmospheric conditions permit. NOT ONE is CHEMTRAILING.

That is downright a LIE. I am really getting tired of reading BS from YOU. IF this forum is for truth then let's talk truth. I gave you a website backing up the truth about a 747 aircraft owned by EVERGREEN Post #60 that does have jet aircraft full of spraying equipment and tanks throughout where the passenger sections would have been located. I have been in their aircraft and discussed what we are talking about here on this thread. They even agree that it's very much possible to spray chemicals from a 747. So if the company that owns and operates a 747 that can spray chemicals and or water why would you tell everyone that it's not possible? You must not have checked it out. I gave you a video of an jet aircraft spraying Post #51.
Since these jets are set up for spraying pretty much any liquid substance why are you telling everyone that it's not possible?

Yes I am.

Im talking about the trails people see in the skies from aircraft and the 50,000 flight movements per day in the US alone. Commercial aircraft, military aircraft, any jet engine will put out these trails if the atmospheric conditions permit.

I full agree many commercial aerial contractors operating aircraft are involved in various activities including spraying.

Crop spraying of farmland. Always done at low level.

Cloud Seeding. Generally up to 10,000 feet or the lower atmosphere.

Fire Fighting. Especially so in Canada Russia and the US.

I agree many companies exist throughout the developed world who spray chemicals and substances from aircraft. Air Atlantique have a contract with the government in the UK doing this work. Through the developed world organisations will be in place to do this work. However almost exclusively its oil suppression or chemical spill elimination work, the sort of flying they were doing in the gulf of Mexico oil spill.

We need to start being sensible, since you accuse me of telling lies. I'm talking about high altitude jet aircraft and contrails, which the public rightly see and know, are the product of combustion.

The truth movement has been infiltrated by “usefull idiots” who spread these mistruths. They are paid for by the New World Order or ptb. It’s a deception and a complete hoax.

Those in the truth movement have been deceived. This is an attack on the movement and the alternative media. If you believe this you are a victim.

If I may say so Chancy and without any hostility for what is to be gained by that,,,, you are being naughty aren’t you. You are splitting hairs.

I have a good friend who every other day is involved in spraying chemicals from aircraft here in the UK. Almost exclusively it’s because some oil tanker in water ballast has flushed its tanks in the Irish Sea or the North of Scotland and they are dispatched to clean up the mess, spraying chemicals from aircraft, how else they would do it? It's always done low level around 500 feet or lower.

Evergreen. This US company is the opposite of Air Atlantique in the UK. Yes they have government contracts for all sort of aerial work. The 747 you refer to are for firefighting, I think you mentioned that. Pictures are available on the internet of Evergreen firefighting. Obviously the aircraft are modified to enable them to do this. Again you are splitting hairs. At a rough estimate something like 250,000 aircraft per day are operating throughout the world, none of them are spraying chemicals Chancy.

Photographs of Pinal air park on the web show aircraft parked up. That's exactly correct they are parked up in long term storage in the dry Arizona heat. The engines are removed, if you look closely the flaps are extended because the hydraulic oil has been drained. They are not airworthy, yet the ptb and the “useful idiots” publish this nonsense to destroy and make fools of people like you and I, and those in the truth movement.

Your post #157 states having tanks in the jet are NOT POSSIBLE? and I quote from your post #157
"In your first video, they talk about this KC-10 “tanker” aircraft. Yes these are modified DC-10 commercial aircraft used to air-air refueling, but they don’t have tanks. They want you to think that all the seats have been taken out and replaced with chemical tanks. The cabin is empty. The fuel comes from centerline and wing tanks just like any other aircraft. Its not possible to fit the cabin with tanks containing fuel it would be miles over its design weights etc and take off weight etc.

Its not possible because of the weights as I have indicated.....Think about it.. What does a gallon of fuel weigh? How many gallons are you going to put in these tanks?

Its also not possible because of the pressure of the outside atmosphere, when compared with the pressure in the cabin and the preassure in these so called tanks.. All three will be different.

Here is something for you to ponder.. Aircraft tyres have fusible plugs. When the preassure exceeds a certain value these plugs release the nitrogen to atmosphere, or the tyre will burst. Why is this? Because “With the volume constant any increase in temperature will lead to an increase in preassure” The tyre has a constant volume. If the temp increases so will the preassure, causing Bang!

Now apply this to these tanks that you think are fitted in these aircraft cabins.

Yes yes the evergreen aircraft have tanks but it’s for firefighting, and it will never be at altitude with those tanks unless the valves are fully open, or the tank would implode.

As I have said above you must not have read my posts. It is possible and has been done and it is being done! All you had to do was look at the EVERGREEN website IF you don't like what you see on the tanker spraying videol.

I think we’ve dealt with this..

As I said you are talking about weather formations and we are talking about CHEMTRAILS. They are completely different and this thread is getting very old since as I said from my first post in this thread I am not trying to convince you of anything BUT

Im sorry you feel this way. Yes I have persistently attempted to explain how these trails are a product of combustion, and really its nature or how weather is formed. Contrails and clouds form the same way. Its depends on the condition of the atmosphere.

I’ve also said elsewhere that aircraft have no capability to spray anything, other than occasionally the water contents from the galleys and fowl water from the toilets. They don’t do this normally but just like your home an overflow valve does exist. Nothing else is sprayed from aircraft ever.( I do also exclude fuel dumping, lets not split hairs)

Chemtrails are a complete myth.

You telling people out and out nonsense that it's not possible to spray from jets is getting to be old.

Indeed I am.

But Im not talking about crop dusters or those aircraft that may be involved in oil suppression or firefighting. In reality very few of these specialist aircraft exist.

IF you want to talk about the weather and cloud formation this is not the thread. This is about chemtrails.

Indeed, actually I would argue that it’s about deception. Clancy..

The facts have been given and you just have not looked at them or you have ignored them.

No unfortunately you have been deceived. This is what makes me annoyed and this is why Im correcting this misconception on the forum for everyone’s benefit based on my professional knowledge and experience.

I have consistently asked for the evidence. It doesn’t exist.

A potato is a potato. A contrail is a contrail. You don’t suddenly look at the potato and say it’s a carrot do you.

What you are doing and calling evidence is posting up images of potatoes and saying they are carrots. Please don’t feel Im being flippant, Im not but we need to deal with basic facts don’t we.

IF you did you wouldn't still be saying it's impossible to spray from jets as you have in post #157.

Can we agree that we’ve covered this?

This thread is a waste of time if you are talking about weather and cloud formation and not chemtrails.

I have been employed for thirty four years in the aviation industry Chancy and have yet to see a chemtrail…

Everyone on the planet has seen a contrail but apparently from what you are saying the technology is not there to spray chemtrails.

No. Everyone on the planet knows these are jet trails . Criminals(the ptb) have messed up your mind unfortunately and so you are in my view a victim of all this nonsense. Im trying to make you aware of this, and have provided scientific facts rather than the mumbo jumbo.

It's time to look at my posts....................maybe then you will see that it has nothing to do with contrails. It has everything to do with spraying chemicals from jets.

I have studied all your posts Chancy, if I failed to respond to a post earlier I do apologise, but have taken time to reply to this one.

I need to caution you, or perhaps bring to your attention that what you see in the skies isn’t going to change.

Aircraft power output has increased four and five fold over the last thirty years and this has been the cause of these bigger trails.

I have attempted to explain this above in text and photographs showing the actual size of these engines. Now Clancy, the bad news is that these are not going to be going away, an so we have to do something about this don’t we.

That is what Im attempting to do. I don’t have to, I could go swimming or walk the dog, but actually we have a problem with these scoundrels and so this my contribution in exposing these crooks you could say.

Therefore.

You don’t believe in the monster under the bed do you, so stop believing this. Dont be a victim. They are controlling you, dont sign up for it...

If you have a sore throat or chest, tummy upset, don’t put it down to chemtrail, the government aren’t spraying a human population. Something is wrong so go and see a doctor essentially you are systemically upset and he/she will treat you. DON’T mention chemtrails (im serious) or he/she may diagnose the problem differently. That wouldn’t be good would it.

If the trees or hedge are dying, something is wrong, it's not chemtrails. Call the horticulturist and ask him what’s wrong with the trees. An answer and solution will be provided and the tree will return to good health.

Take Care…

PS pm me if you want...

[chancy]

Posted by Fred259 (here)
A potato is a potato. A contrail is a contrail. You don’t suddenly look at the potato and say it’s a carrot do you.

Hello Fred259: It's interesting that you are trying to tell everyone including myself that I am being deceived BUT you are telling everyone on this forum and who looks at this forum that a contrail is a CHEMTRAIL. They are competely different and it is like talking about a potato to a carrot. It's NOT "a potato is a potato" scenario.
As I told you I am not trying to convince you that there are CHEMTRAILS because you have your opinion just as I and all the others that know there are CHEMTRAILS are saying a "potato is a carrot" from your perspective.

It's interesting how someone with so much experience is CLOSED MINDED. I thought this forum was for people that are OPEN MINDED and want to look at other perspectives and try to find out the truth? It appears that even I was wrong about that!
I could tell you hundreds of examples of perspectives that I believe are wrong and you could do the same BUT when it comes right down to it there are is always truth and always deception. Just so happens you are trying to tell me that I am deceived because I have seen CHEMTRAILS and know that it's possible to spray chemicals from jets. Well Fred259 just as you won't change your mind...I will not change my mind since I have seen and experience CHEMTRAILS first hand. No wonder this thread is getting old....Fred259 you have never seen a CHEMTRAIL. I have never seen a albino rhino. That doesn't mean there isn't one.

Just because you tell me with conviction there is not CHEMTRAILS doesn't mean there isn't any. Sounds like the mainstream news and government talking....."If I say it's so then it is so"! I don't buy this reasoning.

Remember I am not trying to convince you since only you can convince yourself. Just remember when you have 6 jet aircraft making criss crosses in the air they must be playing tick tack toe....Right?!?! From a nice brilliant clear blue sky to a cloudy sky in less than an hour as soon as these jets finish their tick tack toe game. What a game!
Remember someone is paying for this extremely huge game of tick tack toe everyday!! Ah shucks it's the tax payer! No corporation would be stupid enough to spend money playing tick tack toe most days in the air. I know Fred259 you are going to tell me again this is normal weather occurrences and these jets are just pleasure aircraft enjoying a nice game of tick tack toe! I say WRONG!!!
Regards,
Chancy