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Thread: Barack Obama 2010

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    United States Avalon Member Snowbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    Quote Posted by Ty (here)
    Hi Ahkenaten,

    I agree with everything you say. My position here isn't that it's OK to ignore the law, international or otherwise. It is what keeps civilization civil. But there was legitimate legal debate whether the Geneva Convention, an agreement made between countries, applied to the Taliban and Al-Queda. There was also legal debate over whether water-boarding was considered torture. And there was great concern about other attacks planned against the US.

    It was anything but black and white. Much like the decision to go into Iraq. Many, perhaps most, intelligence agencies and government big wigs here and abroad were certain Hussein had WMDs. He ignored 17 UN resolutions and wouldn't let inspectors in. On the other side there were those who felt he didn't have WMDs. If your primary job as President is the security of the nation, which way do you err? Not that I'm trying to open up another topic of discussion, just point out that sometimes decisions must be made with conflicting information.

    Or incomplete information. Does the Geneva Convention apply? Is waterbaording torture? In the absence of clear decisions and the knowledge that 3 detainees in particular were likely to have information that could help avert planned attacks, I can see why Bush authorized the waterboarding. ANd it did, apparently uncover information that helped avert attacks on Heathrow airport, Canary Wharf and a number of US targets at home and abroad. Was he wrong to authorize it? I don't think so. Others will no doubt reach a different conclusion.

    But the issue that got me into this, whether Bush was right or wrong, is the idea of equating that act to the slaughter of tens of thousands by Hussein. That's like equating someone rushing a critically wounded person to the hosipital and driving the wrong way down a one way street to save time, to someone intentionally driving into a crowd of people to see the bodies fly.

    At least in my opinion.
    Ahkenaten, your # 30 post, IMO (which is never humble) is right on with exception to your allowance of certain aspects of G.W.'s lack of knowledge or understanding of what was happening around him. That theory was put out there to protect him. This allegation can be proven as a point of circumstantial evidence.
    _____________

    Ty, welcome to this forum.

    I gave Thanks to your # 26 post, not because I agree with what you are stating on this thread, but because I have to applaud the force of your convictions. You have held your own on this thread as several regular posters have offered their opposing views. You have also, from what I can tell, held your temper in check.

    Because Ahkenaten laid out, what is IMO, a wonderful argument in post # 30, I won't spend the time or effort to debate your views, although the temptation is there.

    I also won't delve into the collective spiritual reason that 9/11 was allowed to occur, but one thing is for sure, and that is that this one heinous and horrible action is what jolted millions upon millions of people around the world out of their conscious protective womb...it was more of a shock-and-awe. I was among them. At first, I believed what was told to our nation and the world about the circumstances surrounding 9/11. However, as time passed I began to recognize huge and gaping holes in what I now term the original governmental conspiracy theory. From this point, I began to study everything that I could get my hands and eyes onto and this included debunking material. My studies went so far and wide, that I discovered some very sensitive info, at the time which is now very much out in the open, surrounding types of nuclear weapons that the U.S. used on Iraq and most likely continues to this day. I posted this information with heavy amounts of proof on a totally different forum from PA. I also posted the color pictures of what these weapons were doing to the innocent people of Iraq, in addition to the newly born. These pictures are still very much available on the internet, but I caution anyone who goes in pursuit of them to prepare yourself for sights unlike anything ever before seen.

    When you post,...there was great concern about other attacks planned against the US, this is a true statement. It is also a statement that heavily correlates with the original governmental conspiracy theory. These other attacks planned against the US, were and remain part of the inside job surrounding 9/11. There exists much corroborating circumstantial evidence to support this claim.

    I literally could spend hours posting information concerning the Geneva Convention and torture and waterboarding. These issues are so central to the alleged plot perpetrated against the Muslim global community to successfully manufacture yet another enemy. The genius however that surrounds this new and manufactured enemy, is that the term terrorists has never been adequately defined. Al-Queda exists? I challenge anyone anywhere to prove it.

    The discussion on this thread is really germane to the opening post. We are discussing what actually transpired because of and in relation to, the actions of the Bush 6. As the U.S. government, which increasingly no longer represents the people of the United States, has allowed these and others associated, to be free from prosecution, I think it only right and fair that the doors of every prison, holding cell, torture chamber and jail be opened so that every person being held, whether guilty or not, can be freed.

    This will give them Hope in a time of great Change.
    Last edited by Snowbird; 30th December 2010 at 18:46.
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
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    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Ahkenaten (30th December 2010), Ty (31st December 2010)

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    Default Feed Me, Obama, Feed Me: The Plan for Food Dependency,Medicine,martial law

    Feed Me, Obama, Feed Me: The Plan for Food Dependency


    What does any would-be tyrant need in order to gain control over the lives of citizens? Three things come to mind: martial law, socialized medicine, and food dependency.


    In at least two of these categories, President Obama has already succeeded.



    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/..._the_plan.html

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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    Hi Snowbird - I, too am one of those to whom 911 had to have been one of the biggest shocks and eye-openers in my life. NOTHING has been the same since. Concerning the Orwellian use of the word "terrorist" - one of the biggest problems with the War on Terror is conducting a never-ending war on a state of mind. It is so open-ended and ambiguous as to be meaningless - almost makes one suspect that the term was deliberately chosen to seize the definitional high-ground (or low ground if you will) in an Orwellian attempt to commandeer the very language in hopes that others could not use it to define the very acts of the govt. itself.

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    Australia Avalon Member str8thinker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feed Me, Obama, Feed Me: The Plan for Food Dependency,Medicine,martial law

    Here's one of the comments to the original article:

    Quote I will be 63 this week. I still remember my 7th grade teacher explaining how the Nazis got total control of Germany. She told us: "Children were starving, and they were told to pray to God for food. Of course, after waiting for God to answer their prayers, none had arrived and they were still starving. Then they were told to pray to Hitler for food, and, miraculously, the doors opened and in walked Nazis with so much food they gorged themselves. Would they EVER pray to God again for anything? God had not answered their prayers, so why bother? Who did they now swear eternal allegiance to?" Great lesson, Mrs Susslin. Does history ever repeat itself?

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    Default Re: Feed Me, Obama, Feed Me: The Plan for Food Dependency,Medicine,martial law

    Quote There is no limit to the topics appearing on American Thinker. National security in all its dimensions -- strategic, economic, diplomatic, and military -- is emphasized. The right to exist and the survival of the State of Israel are of great importance to us...


    no limit to topics except they are all parked on the right...

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    United States Avalon Member xbusymom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feed Me, Obama, Feed Me: The Plan for Food Dependency,Medicine,martial law


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    United States Avalon Member Snowbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama to give Manhattan back to Native Americans?

    Quote Posted by Lost Soul (here)
    They can have the Manhattan land the UN sits on. The U.N. out of the U.S. sounds good to me.
    Great idea LS!!
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
    Plato

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    Hi Snowbird,

    Thanks for the reply and the additional info.

    I admit to not digging into any of the 911 conspiracy theories. Like most of the country I wrote them off without a 2nd thought. One thing I've learned in the short time I've been here is that there are very well informed opinions here and I've come to respect that. There are 250 threads in the 911 forum here. If I wanted to get up to speed on the most relevant info where would you suggest I start?

    Quote I think it only right and fair that the doors of every prison, holding cell, torture chamber and jail be opened so that every person being held, whether guilty or not, can be freed
    You know. For some reason, fair or not, that just doesn't seem like a very good idea to me

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    United States Avalon Member Snowbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    Quote Posted by Ty (here)
    Hi Snowbird,

    Thanks for the reply and the additional info.

    I admit to not digging into any of the 911 conspiracy theories. Like most of the country I wrote them off without a 2nd thought. One thing I've learned in the short time I've been here is that there are very well informed opinions here and I've come to respect that. There are 250 threads in the 911 forum here. If I wanted to get up to speed on the most relevant info where would you suggest I start?



    You know. For some reason, fair or not, that just doesn't seem like a very good idea to me
    Hello again Ty. I have linked three of the many threads from the Conspiracy Research, 9/11 board. These three will contain much good information as well as some heated exchanges concerning this subject. There are certainly other threads on that board that you can also tap into.

    I was being facetious.


    Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11
    by Jimmer

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ntagon-on-9-11


    A documentary more powerful than Loose Change ... blows the lid off the Inside Job!
    by zookumar

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Inside-Job%21


    Incontrovertible EVIDENCE that the collapse of WTC7 proves Inside Job
    by zookumar

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ves-Inside-Job
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
    Plato

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Ty (2nd January 2011)

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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    Thanks Snowbird. I'll review as time allows.

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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    Dear pilotsimone,

    I can't force you to answer the questions I've asked you twice now. But I'll submit this to you. How you feel in the abstract and what beliefs that leads to are erronious or hypocritical if not consistant with how you would act in a situation where those beliefs are called into question.

    What we truly believe is reflected in what we will do when faced with that decision. If you will jeopardize the life of a loved one to prevent "torturing" another then you truly believe what you said. If not, then your beliefs are just wishful thinking. Only you know which it is.

    As for the paradigm shifting and making those who think as I do irrelevant, there are 6 or 7 billion people on this planet. What will make them all fall into line when this new paradigm arrives, whatever form it takes? Please explain how a new paradigm will change the mind of the fanatic who believes that anyone not sharing his belief must convert or die. Or how the criminal mind, which doesn't respect current laws, will suddenly be swayed to behave within the new paradigm.

    Curious minds would like to know. At least this one would.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Mutchie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    Nothing about the american goverment surprises me anymore !

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    United States Avalon Member Snowbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    Quote Posted by Ty (here)
    Thanks Snowbird. I'll review as time allows.
    You bet!

    I just wanted to let you know that Pilotsimone isn't around PA too often that I'm aware of. But I do know that she doesn't shy away from a good and intelligent challenge. Check back now and then.
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
    Plato

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Default Re: The Bush 6 are Free Thanks to Obama

    I will. Thanks again for the links and Happy New Year.

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