AI Moderators

[ulli]

I am sensing something going on that has more to do with generations than with individuals.
There are those who grew up during the sixties when privacy was pretty much guaranteed
and then there are those who grew up with the trickery and invasiveness of the computer age
and had to learn early to trust that all that invasiveness like collection of cookies was harmless
And except for mild annoyance no evil can come from it.
Being of the earlier generation I'm still struggling with this tearing down of the walls
and very suspicious of corporate motives, especially when hearing of Facebook selling people's personal info to the highest bidder.
The comment early on in this thread re. Orwellian reflects our generations fears, which no matter how justified,
have to be come to terms with.
But just as these worst fears are now being evoked, we (call us baby boomers) are also discovering new paradigms which give us tremendous control over our reality and make our fears obsolete, provided we understand that whoever appears on the screen of our lives was projected there by our own subconscious.
In that sense, integrating and decimating that Kafkaesque Castle that we have been carrying since our youth is of primary urgency...
Those stone walls are crumbling and becoming transparent...we are past the turning point.

[Anno]

Posted by ulli (here)
I am sensing something going on that has more to do with generations than with individuals.[...]

I'm somewhere between the two. I can remember 4 TV channels and when they went off overnight and I can remember when I wanted to phone a friend I couldn't just pull out my mobile, I'd ask my mum and she'd say no, he only lives round the corner use your feet. None of my friends bothered with the internet until we were in our late teens/early twenties as there was a resistance as we'd seen each one of our friends who got it "The Internet" gradually vanished from our reality unless we went round to visit them.

Now when I talk to kids who have grown up with instant access to any information, most of which is bull****, instant communication with whoever is their current 'friend', I really feel sorry for them. They have no concept of how to think for themselves and if you show them a book they think it's "old fashioned" and they just want instant access to a short form of information that has been edited by who knows. They don't care though.

If people of an 'older' generation have a fear of what the younger generation are doing and don't get involved, then how are they going to pass on their experience? TPTB know this which is why they change the music and words every few years.

The concept of Generation itself is pretty skewed now. For people 10 years younger than me, I come from a world that doesn't exist and I'm only half the age of some of the people on here. It's another part of the control system.

I'm reminded of the reason I decided I didn't like buddhism as a teenager. I saw some buddhist monks in a mountain top monastery spending as much of their time in a dark room in meditation. I thought, how can the point of incarnating in the world be to hide away from it? The alternative community can be like that sometimes with people who are really looking for an excuse to be scared of going out to mask the fact they just need to get a grip and sort their lives out like everyone else. This is why I'm so hostile to Fear Porn. It's the drug that keeps people glued to their screens who would otherwise be getting in the way of TPTB in the outside world.

We need to drop the fear and work together or we're just wasting eachother's energy and helping 'the others' through no-action.

[silvervioletrubie]

Boy this discussion is awesome.
I have found this topic and many branches from it presented beautifully in William Gibsons fictional works.

When the internet and information highways become so matrixed that privacy is a word and no longer a concept of ones daily experience, then pattern recognition becomes an underlying fabric for knowledge and control in our society.

The thing about privacy is that privacy is just a way to hide the truth, if we all lose privacy do we really lose anything?

Are we really all that diverse of a race? I think not. Underneath all the privacy I believe we are all loving people looking to learn about ourselves.

The loss of privacy is not to say our lives would be ruined, it just changes the playing field for all the players. I would say we live in a version of that already, whether we like it or not.

Just food for thought and discussion!

[Rocky_Shorz]

well once people realize they communicate with everyone around them without using computers, the worry about privacy will be over...

for now we have the advantage, they see what we type, we hear what they think...

and who is afraid? lol

[silvervioletrubie]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)



you mean people are actually watching us?

The echos of your sarcastic humor are bouncing off the inside of my head, and it tickles!

[silvervioletrubie]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
well once people realize they communicate with everyone around them without using computers, the worry about privacy will be over...

for now we have the advantage, they see what we type, we hear what they think...

and who is afraid? lol

Nice.
So who benefits from all our hoarded privacy? Mmmmm

I say it is tptb. and it is them who are truly afraid, and that brings us farther down the rabbit hole!

[Anno]

Posted by silvervioletrubie (here)
Nice.
So who benefits from all our hoarded privacy? Mmmmm

I say it is tptb. and it is them who are truly afraid, and that brings us farther down the rabbit hole!

I'm a bit split over this. I agree that if we weren't so secret we'd realise how similar we all really are. At the same time, what you're saying is similar to "If you have nothing to hide.."
I don't accept that because it implies that the only people who want privacy want it to hide something they shouldn't be doing.

I don't do anything that would be considered wrong by either the wider community or tptb but I still want privacy.

I think it comes down to what kind of data you're talking about. Let's say my bank statement got published online. It would be an invasion of privacy but really people would only be able to see what I spend my money on and that's not exactly interesting. It's mostly just food and books.

The people who have things to hide work outside the normal system to hide it which kind of defeats the purpose of 'spying' on normal people just in case one does something wrong.

In terms of this equation it only uses the public data we generate. I can't see any negative use for that data but in this thread you'll see the conversation already starting that it should be removed. The question is, would that be considered legal if a company did it?
Privacy laws only apply to Personaly Identifiable Data. Your username counts because you might use it elsewhere, as do any photos of yourself.
Outside of that, none of it counts as Personal from your post score to the thanks you give.

The only people who have anything to fear from this equation are people that are not in harmony because as I demonstrated with Charles, it can detect people who are up to something if the data is interpreted correctly.
The important thing is that some really high profile posters might look bad in the stats and there could be a genuine reason.

For example, if you added up all of the man hours users here put in to commenting on Bill's threads and thanking him, then told him he needs to repay the same amount to get a good score it wouldn't exactly be fair or may even possible. It is the same with users that don't post very often. Using Phi to boost their age helps them a bit but they end up with a lower Force than people who have worse Karma than them, simply because they don't post much.

Data on its own is harmless, it's how the data is interpreted that is 'dangerous' but as it is out in the open, people can do the math themselves.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by silvervioletrubie (here)

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
well once people realize they communicate with everyone around them without using computers, the worry about privacy will be over...

for now we have the advantage, they see what we type, we hear what they think...

and who is afraid? lol

Nice.
So who benefits from all our hoarded privacy? Mmmmm

I say it is tptb. and it is them who are truly afraid, and that brings us farther down the rabbit hole!

Imagine when they peeked down the rabbit hole and found a few thousand of us partying...

[ulli]

Anno
Been thinking about this and came to the conclusion that the picture is always a bit bigger when there are life and death issues.
If some microbiologist were to come here incognito, in order to publish some earthchanging discoveries
that would help humanity out of its mess and the ptb don't want to see out in the open
the last thing on such a person's mind is someone doing Dharma Karma statistics on their membership behavior here.
And we must not forget that this is one of the few platforms where something like that can be done.
Just wanted to bring the thought to your attention.

[Darla Ken Pearce]

Anno is not talking about moderating anything on Avalon, he is talking about an enhancement that uses our own input to help us assess our own words, actions, and contributions. More than anything this is about self-realization and just another tool at that. We are in the process of remembering and becoming the Masters we once were and as we learn through all the processes of trial and error and as humans ~ let's face it, we blunder along in our own time and space. Yet, here is an opportunity to self-assess and correct ourselves that hasn't been available before this day.

If we have a problem with our Dharma or let's say humility ~ let's think about this not in light of others opinion but our own new assessment provided we are interested and care enough to see this. We are great at realigning ourselves once weaknesses are brought to our attention! If we are not concerned about it, who cares anyway?

The greatest value is in our own opinion and knowledge of ourselves. As far as keeping things secret, this the old matrix of fear coming to light here right now. Not realizing that all manifestations of FEAR are what is suspect ~ not new ideas or ways of being better. Define better? This is up to each of us. A tool and if the tool is faulty, we can readjust it. To see ourselves better is a good thing for us. It won't benefit anyone else and we also can ignore it. No harm, no foul. New way of thinking about things but new thinking is required to get out of the fear matrix! Or do you like it here that much?

Well, the human body although many of us have forgotten it, is self-correcting, self-modifying, even self-healing. Any tools that can help us readjust, become kinder, gentler, maybe more open instead of living in this very closed and secret system ~ well, this is a blessing.

No one has to know your score and shouldn't care. It is to benefit YOU and no one else. What if the CIA is here and taking notes? Too funny, who cares! Like any information will help save their faulty thought forms. We can only control ourselves, although TPTW believe otherwise all those closed systems have failed. A new openness is required to go forth into the light of a new day and it's time is ripe now.

In truth, nothing is a secret! It's like keeping a secret from your own heart ~ not possible. We are the true judges of ourselves and no one else. Worry about your own judge inside your heart ~ not the other ones outside yourself, those are an illusion.

Act accordingly but do not be afraid ~ as all is known. We each live within our own hologram, no one else creates it for us. Just ours. Let see ourselves using better lenses and know all that we are and can become. This is a tool to think differently.

This old fear matrix is like a broken record but one that is familiar and people tend to hum it without noticing they are doing it. Yet, the time is upon us to change ourselves first, then it will manifest in the world at large. Avalon is a great forum and innovative platform for a new insight matrix and should be open, if we are not to be left outside the dark matrix as usual. As humans, all the old limitations are gone, we are free to create something bright and new if only we have the courage to do it. This is a wonderful start if only you can see it. Change your thinking, change the world.

Those who do little "thanking" in general or give thanks and caring in PM's instead of "thanks" an adjust could be made, if you feel your version of gratitude/humility is not being considered. All is open to change and adjustments. These might take into consideration, messages on profile pages or some other way to add and count other forms "thanking" that may be happening and add it to the equation. If you don't participate and help find flaws, your input cannot be counted. Do TPTW consult you?

On the other hand, maybe you never thought "Thanks" was all that important. Maybe you don't need any thanks yourself. Tough guy or gal, yes? Not using the same gauges you use in your daily life. This could rankle, yes? How much of an adjustment might it be for your own good, to be a more thankful person in general?

Gosh, what if it was catching like a sweet virus and you accidentally spread it from Avalon to your own wife and family? Gosh, what if happiness suddenly overtook you from out of nowhere just because of a slight change in how you perceive things and begin to be grateful for small favors, small things. Pretty rotten, eh? Can't handle happiness me thinks and yes, maybe it's asking too much of you to change in incremental ways instead of major shifts. It's a choice but one that could make your life a lot easier. Believe in miracles and you get them. Or you can stay in a tiny little box for another 13 million go rounds. As for me, I will gladly change anything needed.

What really do you have to lose but old patterns and ways of thinking? Understand that virtually all you know now, will be swept away in new powers and ways of viewing the world very unlike anything we know now or even see coming. Let us begin now to be the change, we are looking for ~ got to start somewhere and this is a new and bright idea of Anno we should find easy to support. Participate and show support? Yes, it's a choice.

These kinds of changes must come to sweep us out of this dark matrix, so we can move ahead and create something better than what we have now.

Granted, we can all use some brownie point system or financial system ~ to restore order, new values, that enhance our own meter and merit system. Still, there is such resistance. Is it because you favor the dark system of credit and values that is falling? Think about this carefully.

What would happen if instead of stealing resources and getting paid for it as currently exists as a merit system of credit and debt, what if a whole new value system arose from Anno's idea where people had gold coins drop into their bank account for kindness and humility instead. What did you say, HEAVEN FORBID? No, I think not, sweetie. You might want to reconsider staying in the fear matrix or moving into a whole new financial system build upon love instead. Just listen to those gold coins!

In an open system, adjustments can be easily made ~ as they are coming from a heartlight center rather than personal agenda. Okay, we are not used to such things yet. Not enough experience in openness, right? There is a great difference in motivation. One is of the light and open, it is flexible and open to change that benefits others and doing so, benefits all of us as a collective. We already know about the dark and have plumbed the depths of the fear matrix. Like it enough to stay put? Not!

Let us always be looking to improve on ways in which we can uplift ourselves and others. Let no opportunity to enhance our different ways of being ~ go away without due consideration and open thought. This is how we get to the New Golden Age from here and these are the first real baby steps in getting there. So the question, once again is: Are you ready? Much love! xoxox

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Darla Ken Jensen Pearce (here)
Anno is not talking about moderating anything on Avalon, he is talking about an enhancement that uses our own input to help us assess our own words, actions, and contributions.

Well, he did make passing reference to moderating on Avalon, in his thread title and first post. My initial purpose in entering this thread was to assure members that this would not happen, in so far as I had any say in the matter.

However, I suspect the primary distinction between your perspective on this and mine, Darla, is that you're coming at this from awareness of human interactions and I am coming at this as a computer nerd .

The words that Anno chose to label his metrics have important meanings, yes. But the underlying mechanisms that compute those metrics are too simple to be useful and (based on my over 30 years in the business) will always be either (1) too simple to be useful, or (2) too subtle to be trustworthy by all but (perhaps) a few wizards.

A day ago, I had decided it would be better if I did not respond further on this thread. But your comments seemed worthy of response. I respect what you say (though, being of a different nature and experience, I am sure I only partially understand what you say .)

Others may find the metrics useful (I am certainly not the final word on what's useful) and Anno is welcome to continue to provide his metrics to whomever is interested.

[Darla Ken Pearce]

As always, Paul, you are one of the great assets on Avalon and did I mention that I love you? xoxoxox

[ulli]

I recall a time here when my Thanks button was just 30 points short of the received thanks number...
somewhere around 1300 mark, I think.
Being a balance nut as well as a self discovery nut I was toying with an idea similar to what Anno has presented.
I have been on quite a few forums, but none had these stats that we have here, so I admit being fascinated, too,
and wondering how these stats could be applied to give one feedback about one's perception/expression ratio.
I'm all for a little experimentation, as long as it's benefits outweigh potential harm.

[Anno]

Posted by Paul (here)
[...]The words that Anno chose to label his metrics have important meanings, yes. But the underlying mechanisms that compute those metrics are too simple to be useful [...]

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein

Posted by Darla Ken Jensen Pearce (here)
Anno is not talking about moderating anything on Avalon, he is talking about an enhancement that uses our own input to help us assess our own words, actions, and contributions. More than anything this is about self-realization and just another tool at that. We are in the process of remembering and becoming the Masters we once were and as we learn through all the processes of trial and error and as humans ~ let's face it, we blunder along in our own time and space. Yet, here is an opportunity to self-assess and correct ourselves that hasn't been available before this day.
[...]

I'm glad someone gets it Darla!

And I'm glad both you and Ulli are already thinking about how to improve it. The first version was made using the info available and the interactions I could see. I don't know about it becoming a new economic system, although Anno is just as good as Euro or Amero.

If you can see an interaction and you can find a way to measure it using data then you can add it in to the equation and the more people that do, the closer the result will get to an accurate measure. If and how people choose to use it is completely up to them.

The PM counting would definitely add to a person's dharma but how would you calculate humility? There's no way I can see to measure if the pm added value or if it was just spam. The only way I can think of is too intrusive and would have to scan the words used for words on Positive/Negative lists like Love or Hate. It's a bit too far I think.

You could use the Positive/Negative word count to look at public posts though. We've all seen those pictures of the ice crystals being affected by words of love and hate but do we think about how long we spend here looking at such words? If I can see that a particular user uses words on the Negative list 70% more than the words on the Positive list then that would be very useful as both a self improvement tool and as a miner's canary when I'm around negative people.

[ViralSpiral]

Hi Anno, I have been following/observing this thread with great interest, living in two camps:

01. Old paradigm/ignorance/paranoia
02. Wanting to see change, and being it

I see light through the cracks however, whilst knowing where my weaknesses lie may be helpful, I would also need relevant guidance/tools to implement change. e.g. knowing that I am bad at pure science and then going to the applied science class....


Aaaaaanyhoo, this all verrrry interesting. I thank you for pursuing this, as well as all the other proficient participants in this thread, and in light of "observation & learning" I would be happy for you to let me know what needs fine-tuning.

[Anno]

Posted by ViralSpiral (here)
[...]
I see light through the cracks however, whilst knowing where my weaknesses lie may be helpful, I would also need relevant guidance/tools to implement change. e.g. knowing that I am bad at pure science and then going to the applied science class....
[...]

I would disagree slightly. I have a new book in my 'to read' pile that looks at the theory that the ancients were advanced because they used a different type of knowledge based on intuition and harmony with nature. This is symbolised as Lunar Knowledge, Moon Gods/Godesses, The White Lady etc. In our age we use Solar Knowledge which is about facts, data, science, logic, materialism and existentialism. Jehova/God and such symbols represent this, as does Gold and Money.

If your head doesn't like science then looking at a more pure science may not be the best idea. Perhaps it would be better to look at philosophy and theoretical science? You could be more Lunar than Solar.

Posted by ViralSpiral (here)
Aaaaaanyhoo, this all verrrry interesting. I thank you for pursuing this, as well as all the other proficient participants in this thread, and in light of "observation & learning" I would be happy for you to let me know what needs fine-tuning.

The funny thing is, the people brave enough to post and bring up their reservations are the people with the highest scores so they kind of prove that the equation is working.

You are doing really well with a Force of 164. There are two factors holding you back. One is your humility, which, at only just below average is still better than most people on here. More thanking would help you out. The main thing is to think about how you post. Just under half your posts don't get thanked. Why this is I can't tell but if you increased that percentage and your humility you'd be a high scorer as your Karma is only just below average which is caused by the above. Be more mindful and give thanks where you get them. =]

[ulli]

@ViralSpiral and Anno
I think Viral is so mindful, as in full mind, that she does not concern herself with the people and relationship aspect that comes with a forum...and quite rightly so... if one is philosophically inclined why should people get in the way of ideas?

I find myself in the same boat at times, remembering the thank you button Only because I have that ingrained fascination with statistics...a Capricorn thing.
My hope is that the world becomes a safer place with no evil government agencies, no error justice system and no loony psycho nuts, so then my latent social abilities can begin to kick in. Where there are no people to fear then all that is left is people to enjoy. Not a bad vision for my utopian wish list.
When nano technology gets really going I will not press a thank you button but instead send a plate with a real Schwarzwaelder Kirsch tart as a thank you...

Then the forum can become a Viennese coffee house, like my maternal ancestors had, and which is the highest platform philosophical discussion groups can attain.

If Anno gets this idea off the ground I will send him a beer as well.

[ViralSpiral]

Posted by Anno (here)
Be more mindful and give thanks where you get them. =]

in which case......Thanks

[silvervioletrubie]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)

Posted by silvervioletrubie (here)

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
well once people realize they communicate with everyone around them without using computers, the worry about privacy will be over...

for now we have the advantage, they see what we type, we hear what they think...

and who is afraid? lol

Nice.
So who benefits from all our hoarded privacy? Mmmmm

I say it is tptb. and it is them who are truly afraid, and that brings us farther down the rabbit hole!

Imagine when they peeked down the rabbit hole and found a few thousand of us partying...

Cheers my friend!

[silvervioletrubie]

Posted by Anno (here)

Posted by silvervioletrubie (here)
Nice.
So who benefits from all our hoarded privacy? Mmmmm

I say it is tptb. and it is them who are truly afraid, and that brings us farther down the rabbit hole!

I'm a bit split over this. I agree that if we weren't so secret we'd realise how similar we all really are. At the same time, what you're saying is similar to "If you have nothing to hide.."
I don't accept that because it implies that the only people who want privacy want it to hide something they shouldn't be doing.

I don't do anything that would be considered wrong by either the wider community or tptb but I still want privacy................


Data on its own is harmless, it's how the data is interpreted that is 'dangerous' .....

I hear you Anno.
For me there are two ways to think about, one way is kind of metaphysical, one way is kind of pragmatic.

Pragmatically speaking, I would vote to limit any information of mine being used to recognize patterns etc. because it might lead down the slippery slope into an Orwellian world, gotta be careful right? The benefit would need to be clear for me as an individual, not only for my individual being today, but for my potential individual existence tomorrow as well. It would be a shame to be viewed as not helpful to my community, if I was expressing myself in away that tipped the equation, but did not reflect my true intent,... or to be subversively "pushed" into a series of interactions so that my "number" was appropriately situated within the limits of what is acceptable in the community (i.e. equation)...do I lose individuality?, do I lose free will?

Perhaps we could just pass judgment on ourselves and our community members by interpreting the communications we all take part in, without intermediate equations. THAT being said, I am really not that paranoid, because I have nothing to hide (from my perspective) and would like to see your equation utilized just for kicks and giggles,.... my nerd brain thinks that the equation idea is kinda cool, while I still think an equation becomes some kind of marker for judgement to be passed, and therefore a potential tool to be used to control people.

Metaphysically speaking, privacy is an ego thing, and really is only a concept for us, but not the universe....is the bottom of the ocean private, yes, but only because we don't actually see it. Privacy is completely a human perspective, and a perspective we generate outwards about other humans and what we think they know or don't know about us. (you think your midnight ice cream binge is private....but that is only because you don't see or know that the neighbor is busy watching you while he eats his ice cream ) Do we keep things private from "GOD" or the "ALL", or whatever........

So our spirit, unencumbered with this human form doesn't really "have" any privacy, and that is just fine.


Regardless of my opinion, I thank all of you who are participating (even by just reading and thinking about it). This is a great discussion of very relevant ideas and concepts.

And Anno, I think your equation is neat and may serve a greater purpose, or not. If it has potential to be positive, then we should at least check it out (like many forum members have pointed out), even if it ends up being solely for entertainment. Either way, thanks for bringing it up!