comply or die.

[manny]

lol .comply or die works on many levels.
i believe in many things and i have a opnion.
but when you cross that threshold ,you may get cut off.

so where does that threshold start and end?

again i say heirachy is in full swing.

when we can act and behave as one without a judge in a court of law.
then we may make progress.

but when we have people who think themselves as judges,and passing a judgement on a menial subject in the alternitive community,then we have a problem.
and that problem is free speech.

give someone a little power and they will abuse it.

let people say what they have to without judgement.
give it a go.you may be surprised at the outcome.

please say i am wrong.

[shadowstalker]

sorry can't say your wrong cuz ur right. some folks think power must be used all the time and that is not the case, power need only be used when needed, not for the pure sake of it.

[manny]

Paul ,Ilie,
chill out this is not negative ,but a learning curve for everyone.
when we can say what we need to then everyone learns.
when we cannot then are we affraid to speak,and no one learns.
take it in your heart that what you know is true.

[ulli]

Manny you are wrong!
The fact is it's not an either-or world...it is both.
And you are not focusing on expressing your inner creative energy.

There will always be hierarchy as long as people have children
Parents are boss...

There will always be deception as long as people have children...
Parents make up Santa Claus stories...

There will always be rebellions as long as people have children
Parents are authority.

When the child wants to be free from authority he moves out,
and the parents keep the house and the keys.

[shadowstalker]

Posted by manny (here)
Paul ,Ilie,
chill out this is not negative ,but a learning curve for everyone.
when we can say what we need to then everyone learns.
when we cannot then are we affraid to speak,and no one learns.
take it in your heart that what you know is true.

Thanks for post your last statement,
I was gunna say the same basic thing in the other thread you started, but then it got LOCKED,

[Ilie Pandia]

Dear Manny,

You knew when you've joined this forum that this a moderated forum. I don't know what you understand by "free speech" but that does not mean that "anything goes here". The forum rules are here for a reason.

While I agree that we should reach a phase where forum moderation is not required and the forum doors are open for everybody we are not there yet.

The moderation actions are bound to upset some members, there is no way around it.

You are being very combative and aggressive and I don't think it's fair. Try to remember the times when the moderation team was supportive of you and write about that too... why aren't you starting threads about that? That is easy to forget, no?

I am upset with you Manny.

[shadowstalker]

Posted by ulli (here)
Manny you are wrong!
The fact is it's not an either-or world...it is both.
And you are not focusing on expressing your inner creative energy.

There will always be hierarchy as long as people have children
Parents are boss...

There will always be deception as long as people have children...
Parents make up Santa Claus stories...

There will always be rebellions as long as people have children
Parents are authority.

When the child wants to be free from authority he moves out,
and the parents keep the house and the keys.

I guess that depends on how we are raised,
The only reason my folks would keep a key is to keep burglars out( when they leave the house) , other then that we enter as we plz.

[manny]

it,s about freedom of speech,love and compassion.
one forum for everyone.
but i feel their are a few minor changes to be made,to make it a better forum.
we should not be scared as to what we post.

[shadowstalker]

You are being very combative and aggressive

I don't see anywhere where he is being this way, we all have a right to answers and to ask the question without fear.

[ulli]

Posted by shadowstalker (here)

Posted by ulli (here)
Manny you are wrong!
The fact is it's not an either-or world...it is both.
And you are not focusing on expressing your inner creative energy.

There will always be hierarchy as long as people have children
Parents are boss...

There will always be deception as long as people have children...
Parents make up Santa Claus stories...

There will always be rebellions as long as people have children
Parents are authority.

When the child wants to be free from authority he moves out,
and the parents keep the house and the keys.

I guess that depends on how we are raised,
The only reason my folks would keep a key is to keep burglars out( when they leave the house) , other then that we enter as we plz.

That means either that you never rebelled and made their lives hell.
Also it means they didn't have 4000+ children.

[manny]

to Ilie this forum has help me greatly.
as we all know.
but don,t subject me to a person who has to conform because i have been helped.
i needed it at that time and it was helpful.
emotional blackmail does not come into my vocabulry.
i still have free will as we all do.

but like i say we can all learn by this ,it is not a bad experience,only if you perceive it to be negative.

we all learn by each others experiences,whether it be bad or good.
positive or negative.
ying,yang.
be a medietor

[ThePythonicCow]

we all have a right to answers and to ask the question without fear.

Sometimes fear is the responsibility of one party, sometimes of the other.

I cannot take responsibility for ensuring you feel no fear here. I can only take responsibility for doing the best I can by the forum and its members.

[shadowstalker]

you are not focusing on expressing your inner creative energy.

REALLY???
seems he is focused to me, his creativity is focused on the main event that which he is speaking, free speech and such is of one of the highest of all creativeness and posing the questions he poses just augments that creativity.

[manny]

i am sorry if i upset you.
but i am not interested if i upset or someone enjoys my opinions,
what i am interested in is the truth.
and by sending people on a vacation because it may not have fit in your feild of vision,upsets me.
so where is your non judgemental views.

[Ilie Pandia]

Manny, I did not see my post as a emotional black mail or asking for payback. I am just saying that from where I am standing you are being unfair to call us power hungry when, in my opinion, you should know better

[shadowstalker]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by shadowstalker (here)

Posted by ulli (here)
Manny you are wrong!
The fact is it's not an either-or world...it is both.
And you are not focusing on expressing your inner creative energy.

There will always be hierarchy as long as people have children
Parents are boss...

There will always be deception as long as people have children...
Parents make up Santa Claus stories...

There will always be rebellions as long as people have children
Parents are authority.

When the child wants to be free from authority he moves out,
and the parents keep the house and the keys.

I guess that depends on how we are raised,
The only reason my folks would keep a key is to keep burglars out( when they leave the house) , other then that we enter as we plz.

That means either that you never rebelled and made their lives hell.
Also it means they didn't have 4000+ children.

Maybe it's because my folks are highly spiritual and yes I wreaked havoc with my folks, but they where forgiving, I personally only moved out because I had a boyfriend at the time and got tired of moving from place to place all the time. And my folks had a fit over the fact that I wanted to move out, they wanted me to stay and so did I but my new life was more important then other things like moving, in fact my folks still to this day want me to move back in, to to be quite honest i want to.

And yes I don't need a key because i am family,

Even when my folks gave the old "because I say so " i questioned it, asking for something to back it up. they didn't like it but hey if one is going to use power then use it wisely.

But we are not children here are we?
we are still asking the old question why , why not with a reason to back it up and not excuses.

[greybeard]

Freedom of speech brings responsibility.
It might be free but it was hard won.

I went to a positive thinking seminar and the main speaker invited two from the audience to stand beside him.
They were positioned about 6ft on either side of him--- he started waving his arms about to his side-- all fine.
several times he invited the guys closer- all fine but the last time it was obvious if he continued as before he would have hit the bystanders quite hard.
So the moral was that you act as you please until you affect others adversely.

I understand where you are coming from Manny but some people dont realize when they are acting inappropriately and then the common good or reputation of the group, or for that matter, an individual member, is being threatened..

Some one has to set acceptable standards and maintain them. (the standards vary from forum to forum)

Some I saw heading for a holiday and it was hard to believe that they did not know they were pushing their luck.
I pushed my luck several times as I had a loyalty to two diferent and opposing sets of people-- I could see both points of view and stated so.
People found it hard to believe that I could maintain a neutrality when pointing out that both erred.
I was supposed to take sides.

Thats beside the point but we dont live in a perfect society where people can be expected to do the right thing-- we cant even agree upon what is the right thing.

I felt sometimes the mods were a bit trigger happy in the early days but on the whole I feel they got it right all credit to them.
Some poster just like to live on the edge push the envelope and all credit to them most of what they say is of great value.

Anyway it is as it is.

Regards Chris

[pickle]

Posted by manny (here)
it,s about freedom of speech,love and compassion.
one forum for everyone.
but i feel their are a few minor changes to be made,to make it a better forum.
we should not be scared as to what we post.

It would be nice to have any place that is genuinely free (freedom of speech), full of love and compassion, but this is just a public forum - a very, very good one - but still a place for many different personalities to meet.... where our mistakes, and dif'rent takes could rub someone up the wrong way. It's inevitable.

'You can't please all the people all the time' (no matter what the spiritual intent of this place is...) - so why expect this forum to be the place you want it to be? What if another person wants it run differently to you? It's not ours, someone else owns it, we come here to mingle for as long as we do, then we move on.

As for Lord Sid being on a break, I have no idea why he's on one, though I do know he's got a heart of gold I'd like him back here asap, I hope the waters calm down soon.

[manny]

i feel to close a thread as quickly as it was started without a full explaination is also unfair.
please appreciate that this is not a argument but a way to see sense.
we all have opnions,whether we like some or not ,but to be sent on vacation?

are we able to see our goods ands falts in what we do.

without the ego taking over.

[ulli]

Posted by shadowstalker (here)
you are not focusing on expressing your inner creative energy.

REALLY???
seems he is focused to me, his creativity is focused on the main event that which he is speaking, free speech and such is of one of the highest of all creativeness and posing the questions he poses just augments that creativity.

Free speech can be creative, and it can be destructive.
Motive and self image determine how far one wants to go.

There have been many instances here where someone wanted to make major policy changes
which is not going to happen as long as Bill is not around to have the final word.

There are situations in life that require a "take it, or leave it" attitude.

If I was going to be bull-headed about something that irks me here
would I risk undermining my membership?
Maybe, if I could easily replace Avalon as a platform of self-expression.

Choices must be made, consequences must be considered,
and all in the context of a greater picture.

If your self-image demands that you play the role of rebel leader
and revolutionary at all cost, do what you must...
just be sure it was worth it.