Here and Now...What's Happening?

[ViralSpiral]

Posted by onawah (here)
Love you Calz!

I am seeing something here which I think I can discuss from the vantage of personal experience, and hopefully without putting too fine a point on it...
I think the Here and Now thread is the right place to post this, since there is so much genuine, friendly compassionate support here.

It has to do with the need to be right.

I came from a very dysfunctional family; alcoholic father, suicidal mother and siblings, chronic depression, etc.
One step I took, once I reached adulthood, in coming to grips with the psychological and emotional burden I had inherited was to study the dynamics of Co-dependence.
I even joined a group and found the mirroring that went on to be most instructive.
What I discovered is that children with a very dysfunctional family life, with all the variables and uncertainties that they have to deal with at a time when they most need security and stability, tend to have a very strong need to be right in their observations.

The feeling of "rightness" creates a certain kind of internal refuge to which they can create when things around them are crazy and nonsensical.
"If I can at least see things as they are, then I won't be overwhelmed and confused by the craziness. If I can be right in the face of so much wrongness, I can be safe."
But it can also become a kind of prison, and understanding and interacting with the inner worlds of others can become very difficult.

A certain amount of flexibility and permeability is necessary in order to interact and merge with others.
The walls of the self-created refuge don't allow for that, as safety is felt to be maintained by rigidity, solidness and impermeability.

This need can even manifest in physical symptoms such as tendonitis or TMJ resulting from clenched jaws, etc.
The prison is maintained well beyond any actual need for it, unless the prisoner realizes his/her predicament and learns how to emerge.
Working on connecting with the Wounded Child can be very powerful in this healing process.

Hoping this may be of some help...
Namaste

Great post Onawah, thank you

The thing about shadow work is that its energy patterns. Unconscious patterns. These need to be acknowledged and embraced. Once we recognize how we judge ourselves, before others, deepening happens and compassion is genuine. Then the prisoner is truly free, no matter who the wardens are....







p.s. Love you Cal

[ulli]

Posted by eaglespirit (here)
...hmmm , I walk away for a minute and it transcends to deep, deep transformation matters transmuting the now...here and now : )

Yippeeekyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaa....expanding the expanding edges of the outer edge : ) : ) : )

...and that's usually the moment when something's got to give.

[REILLY]

Eating the poo sandwich is easier when it's someone else's sandwich, but it still tastes the same, and still we learn, if not quite as vividly.

Thanks to Calz_Avasmartass (has a nice ring to it, and it's admirable, to my warped sense at least) and to the sinister (tongue firmly in cheek) 9eagle9. Maybe it'll be my butt out there next time asking for a good whack *winces*.

[ViralSpiral]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by eaglespirit (here)
...hmmm , I walk away for a minute and it transcends to deep, deep transformation matters transmuting the now...here and now : )

Yippeeekyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaa....expanding the expanding edges of the outer edge : ) : ) : )

...and that's usually the moment when something's got to give.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
Leonard Cohen


You guessed it. I ♥ him!

[Nora]

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by Nora (here)
We have to go within. We're our own guides.

Native American Indian peoples have had about 150 years to adujust to Christianity and the industrialized western world and mind. Suicide -nihilism is about 30 to 40 percent among children 8 to 19 years of age on the reservations, alcholism is about 40 to 60 percent, unemployment 50 to 80 percent. Just remembered -diabetes 50 percent and obesity 60 percent.

The Native American religious freedom act was enacted in 1976. 5 to 10 percent of the people practice their traditions. About 50 percent incorporate Christian religions with their traditional ways. The rest are either full Christians or totally assimalated into the western culture and do not know anything about their own people.

I've spent a lot of time with the people from Mexico to the Northern states. There is one thing they, the elders and the traditionalist, all say about these times.... the energy of the earth is changing and that there will be a great light wave that will come, "do not look at it turn away from it and there will be great floods."

Love,

Nora

we are all related

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmT_rqj2mEo

Thank you Carmody


There is so much more I want to say about my time spent with a lot of the Native Peoples of this continent. My relationship with them was due more to me having questions about my inward experiences and the insanity and no-sense of this society.... Now I have more of a family/friendship relationship with them. They are some of the strongest people I have ever met in my life and yes they are living out a societal dream imposed on them. And there is more to this than I said -horrible in a lot of ways. They also have taken the time to "help" me -took me in. They hold more sacredness and truths in their hearts than one can imagine. More and more the planets and the cosmos are going to influence earth and life here..... the Sacred Beings are here now (The Above & Below) or (Below & Above) and they also say that there is One yet to return....

Love

Nora

we are all related

[eaglespirit]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by eaglespirit (here)
...hmmm , I walk away for a minute and it transcends to deep, deep transformation matters transmuting the now...here and now : )

Yippeeekyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaa....expanding the expanding edges of the outer edge : ) : ) : )

...and that's usually the moment when something's got to give.

...and so it is !

I'm Sorry, Forgive Me, Thank You, I Love You !

That has to be done in the mirror first and foremost...and the process continues and accelerates...
wisdom upgrades,

then One on One and then for the Whole of Humanity,...and the process continues and accelerates...
wisdom upgrades,

becoming an sto way of being without being disruptive...creating, uncreating, creating, creating, uncreating...

working it out works it out...and that 'something has to give' is the uncreating...so an explosion doesn't implode the whole process.

We're getting there!

[ulli]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
Eating the poo sandwich is easier when it's someone else's sandwich, but it still tastes the same, and still we learn, if not quite as vividly.

Thanks to Calz_Avasmartass (has a nice ring to it, and it's admirable, to my warped sense at least) and to the sinister (tongue firmly in cheek) 9eagle9. Maybe it'll be my butt out there next time asking for a good whack *winces*.

No one will ever whack you, PurpleLama.
Don't you remember that when people became Villagers they had passed a test...
show that they were no longer masochists.
Or even worse, victims. No one from the fake love and light path, either.
Villagers were about becoming a team unit that operated at levels unknown to outsiders.
This might cause a slight stir on the outside, even though the positive effects of our work
would be reaching to the furthest edges of the universe.
Of course, anyone is always welcome to join, once they can leave their muddy shoes and sling shots at the entrance.

[1inMany]

Wow, Nora,

My relationship with them was due more to me having questions about my inward experiences and the insanity and no-sense of this society....

Are you sure that was you...I swear it was me lol. Actually, the questions about inward experiences and insanity and society...that drove me to looking - hard - for a Native American that would speak with me. I shared my experiences hoping to make sense of things, and time after time I was told I should find a Native American Shaman/Medicine man/person. I tried so hard for so long to find someone. But it just wasn't meant to be. I would love to hear more of what they hold sacred, and how they view the big picture It's wonderful that you are/were close to them!

Much Love,

p.s. - Ulli, are you serious about passing a test? Does that really happen?

[ulli]

Posted by 1inMany (here)
p.s. - Ulli, are you serious about passing a test? Does that really happen?

Not in a conventional way. Seriously now:
The tests come from within the self, like shyness, or judgments of the Villagers,
which aslo have to do with personal perception.
You passed the test, by making yourself return. There is no hidden tribunal here.
I don't even have time to use the PM box much other than
when someone has some personal pain and want to unload, and vice versa.

There have been comments at times about the superficiality here.
But us who are regulars understand that there is also a lot of depth.
We do have some unwritten laws, and one of them is respect of the others sovereignty.
There is never heavy sarcasm here, only sometimes light-hearted banter.
Few threads where there is such an understanding.
Each person who drops by on a regular basis brings many lifetimes of wisdom and talent
and, dare I say it, what their understanding of what 'love' means to them.

[REILLY]

One who has the courage to fight the demons of ego and self in truth tend to become very grateful to have others come along and help shine light on what we have trouble seeing in ourselves. That's what I mean by eating the poo sandwich. My pet term for shadow work, if you will. We are seeing a medicine woman helping one she herself sees as having the potential of having the real love and light shine through. Yucky vegetables kids hate to eat are the same foods that give the most health and vitality and medicine that tastes like sh!t makes you well again. Calz and eagle were my first "friends" on this website, and I see some of what she sees in calz, so I see where she's coming from. I hope, when emotions are smoother, he'll go back over her posts and extract what I did. I found much of what was said to be helpful, and really that goes for all participants. "and when die and they lay me to rest, I'm goin to the place that's the best"

Hey, dead "PurpleLama"! *waves*

Here and now, wondering if the life review will contain interactions on avalon.

I can't explain, but when carmody played dragging the line, it's like this was the next song on the station

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmOY97g-RWc

[9eagle9]

Who inivited me Cal, I never used to participate in this thread until you asked me to come here I was a lookie loo only(smile).

You are amiss in 'thinking' that all the villagers do not comprehend what I'm saying.

At any given time in our lives we used to attack the messenger instead of the 'message'. An excuse we've all used if we are honest to avoid comprehending what the messages means in relation (that word again) to us personally.

So if there is some error here it's in the message. You haven't yet been able to deconstruct the message so you attack the messenger not realizing the messenger only sees your opinion, and opinions are like air. Your opinions do not trouble me because they don't come from you.

I note correctly that you are attacking me with an opinion and is that because the message can't really be attacked? The material I write can not be argued with so like a few others, attack me instead. Eagle's perceptions instead of the message?

Or is it the message is okay but the person delivering it is blind. Well they had enough sight to know what the message means in relation to others.


Try it the other way around and there will be an abatement of the conflict that you express disgruntlement at. Attempt to attack the message instead of blowing air at the messenger. That exhausts and frustrates you and really has no bearing on in relation to me.

Let's talk about 'light' instead? Our comfortable place.

The Great Light Wave. When the Hopi made their predictions about webs like spiders spreading across the nation, great vast billowing wagons trundling across the prariries did we ever pause to wonder where those webs and wagons came from?

They came from people.

Did we ever wonder when the Great Light Wave hits that perhaps it won't come out of the sky, or erupt from the porch floor, or come sliding from the mailbox.
The light wave comes from people. At some level people must realize this otherwise they wouldn't spend so much time with the notion that they are, if only in word and not deed, sending light to each other. Where the heck did they think this light they think they are sending come from?

Through them, from them. It's not coming from a reservoir in the refrigerator?

If light is expressed through people then surely will the Great Light wave be as well?

Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)

I have a great deal of experience being the person you are now Cal.....you have less experience being the person I am now.

Erm ... okay ... that denotes a great deal of authority without saying sh!t.

We talking a whole lotta past life or exactly what ... in terms we poor villagers can comprehend ... are you suggesting???

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)

There's sometimes a situation and I know this to be true by experience that sometimes it not your friends laughing at you, its the people that your friends have to hear laughing about you. That is how we are all related. Our friends are compelled to carry the burden, and then compelled to enter into a conflict on your behalf.

And true friends would do willingly enter into that conflict to preserve what they see in you in spite of what you have chosen to present to the world.

This is no different than watching soemones ego attack them and being compelled to re-frame back into who they really are. We then make the choice to believe the ego or trust the friend. Which one is really throwing a life line.

Or we could ask why are walking in front of the

... and this would be your latest lesson in tough love ...

no my friends are not laughing at me directly ...

... but I am making all my friends suffer because they are being laughed at on my behalf???

I would love to use some really big letters now ... but for the time being I will respect Carmody and do my best to keep the decible level low here.


Hmmmm


Well lets open this up for village dialogue.

What say you villagers???


Am I an embarrassment and shame to you all ... too much for you all to burden???

Poll anyone???

Last two questions, no and no, just stay as you are.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Never knew silence can be so voluminous. Thanks everybody.

[onawah]

Something I noticed about the CODA (Co-Dependents Anonymous) group I joined.
I saw certain individuals actually expand their prisons into fortresses.
They created more room for themselves and their "rightness" so they could move around more freely within the walls.
And they became great authorities in their" rightness" and became "leaders" in the groups.
What they had to say was often very astute, but the way they said it sometimes rendered their wisdom indigestible.
It was like you had to take a painful piece of their fortress wall along with the information they offered, and so ultimately, nothing was given or accepted in many cases.
But there was still a lot going on and growing inside the walls, and eventually, I think perhaps the fortress would become so full that the walls would simply burst.

Others didn't try to escape the prison, but just went deeper and deeper into their hearts, and from that space, were able to reach through the prison walls and connect to others.
For the latter, gradually, the prison walls became more permeable, and the prisoners were able to take walks outside of the walls more and more frequently.

I didn't stay in the group long enough to observe all the stages of transformation.
But I think I took away some tools from both groups.
I wouldn't say that one was better than the other, since both had found a way to grow.
The important thing was that both were able to be in the same group and offer what they had to one another, and to those, like me, who came to observe and take away what wisdom we could.

I saw a great bumper sticker the other day.
It said, "The day of Non-Judgement is near."

[ulli]

@ 9eagle
When I was an active Baha'i we were always talking and hearing about system change...that there was no hope for the world under the present corrupt system.
When I was with the various Gurdjieff groups we were talking and hearing about changing the self, first via self observation, self knowledge, and gradually pushing ourselves to our limits with various physical, emotional and intellectual exercises.
My question was always which of the two paths was the better path changing the world, or changing the self, and I had to concede there was not only one way...but many.
My hope was that all these different paths would one day converge in a vanishing "zero" point of Oneness.
The main thing was that people would be free to chose their own direction and calling. Unfettered by hecklers, disruption, oppression.
In both systems the thing that tripped up the wanderers most was the appearance of self appointed challengers, and not everyone remained steadfast after running into them.

Today I had an emotional run-in with you 9eagle, because your reaction to that sad photo prompted you to do what I considered to be a wild rant...
something I am not very partial to. I herewith apologize for possibly having made matters worse with my own response.
I would now like you to hear my position, and also invite that of others, who might have felt equally uncomfortable as I did.

Each person needs space and air to breathe if they want to make their contribution in life, and that it is that which I am upholding as anyone's given right.
Their equilibrium takes a beating each time someone hammers at them for not doing their part.
Nothing will ever be achieved as long as there are people who don't see that such behavior serves no one.

Acts of desperation cannot stir a ship through a storm, on the contrary, they unsettle the entire journey.
I appeal to you, 9eagle, to go back to where you were yesterday, when you shared with the rest of us your own Here and Now.
Today I felt the whole village was being attacked for not being out there in Africa and dealing with the issues of starvation.
When I posted my response about not knowing where to send sympathy, you (the ranter) or the children of Africa who have no food.
I meant it then and I mean it now.
Rants are confusing to all, and useless. Please refrain from doing this again.
If you wish to see real change then please lets talk about the many forms this can be brought about.
This thread is not called Here and Now for nothing.
We need practical approaches, starting out from where we are, Here and Now.

[Nora]

One who has the courage to fight the demons of ego and self in truth tend to become very grateful to have others come along and help shine light on what we have trouble seeing in ourselves. That's what I mean by eating the poo sandwich. My pet term for shadow work, if you will. We are seeing a medicine woman helping one she herself sees as having the potential of having the real love and light shine through. Yucky vegetables kids hate to eat are the same foods that give the most health and vitality and medicine that tastes like sh!t makes you well again.

That was awesome PL


1inMany

The Here and Now thread is a good place to start. And there isn't any test we have to pass.

I studied Tibetan and Zen Buddhism and various martial arts for a lot of years. My relationship with the Native people turned mostly into me realizing that I had to get my own brain out of the way and do a lot of ego work.... this is where I started and have been able to integrate within myself and really start going within. Still working on it. The people on the forum and this thread have helped me immensely in a variety of ways. Also, a lot of Native people do not have the concept of "how" or "why" -in other words nothing is outside of self. Everything is within.

Am going through the Lithium thread and having a lot of fun with it. Now that is cool. It's in the league in my opinion of spending time with a Native American Elder, really.


Love

Nora

we are all related

[onawah]

Posted by ulli (here)
When I was an active Baha'i we were always talking and hearing about system change...that there was no hope for the world under the present corrupt system.
When I was with the various Gurdjieff groups we were talking and hearing about changing the self, first via self observation, self knowledge, and gradually pushing ourselves to our limits with various physical, emotional and intellectual exercises.
My question was always which of the two paths was the better path changing the world, or changing the self, and I had to concede there was not only one way...but many.
My hope was that all these different paths would one day converge in a vanishing "zero" point of Oneness.

I am reading a very good book by Michael Gruber, The Good Son, about a group of Peacemakers who decide to hold a Peace Symposium in Pakistan.
It's a very involved plot which I won't go into, but something that I read last night from the book really impressed me, and it relates to what Ulli is saying.
One of the characters is a psychotherapist and she speaks of Western "experts" in various fields who would end up very frustrated and ineffective in their work when they failed to understand that they could not apply methods that worked in their own cultures to very different cultures, such as in the Middle East.
She found that the Muslims she worked with would simply withdraw and become morose when she attempted to treat them as she would her European patients.
In the West, the individual is paramount, but in the Middle East, the group is what is most important; the family, the extended family, the community, and the nation.
In the West, she decided, change comes about through the individual making changes within, but in the Muslim world, change comes about by changing the way things are done in groups and communities.
Gurdjieff spanned both worlds in his work, so it makes perfect sense that those differences would become very evident to his students.
Indeed, all these different paths must and will one day

converge in a vanishing "zero" point of Oneness.

[eaglespirit]

Posted by Nora (here)

One who has the courage to fight the demons of ego and self in truth tend to become very grateful to have others come along and help shine light on what we have trouble seeing in ourselves. That's what I mean by eating the poo sandwich. My pet term for shadow work, if you will. We are seeing a medicine woman helping one she herself sees as having the potential of having the real love and light shine through. Yucky vegetables kids hate to eat are the same foods that give the most health and vitality and medicine that tastes like sh!t makes you well again.

That was awesome PL


1inMany

The Here and Now thread is a good place to start. And there isn't any test we have to pass.

I studied Tibetan and Zen Buddhism and various martial arts for a lot of years. My relationship with the Native people turned mostly into me realizing that I had to get my own brain out of the way and do a lot of ego work.... this is where I started and have been able to integrate within myself and really start going within. Still working on it. The people on the forum and this thread have helped me immensely in a variety of ways. Also, a lot of Native people do not have the concept of "how" or "why" -in other words nothing is outside of self. Everything is within.

Am going through the Lithium thread and having a lot of fun with it. Now that is cool. It's in the league in my opinion of spending time with a Native American Elder, really.


Love

Nora

we are all related

Thank You Nora...
That resonates with me and my vision in the jungle that showed me that the Native American Indians and Cultures all over are stepping out of their misery now more than ever.
Very bad things happened...we are moving beyond the 'how and why' of it all and taking matters to another level right in front of us, thus creating a new higher becoming. Once again this is where the uncreation comes into play...no more energy given to misery and other detracting low vibrations.

[Nora]

Here is the link to the lithium thread.... I know a lot of the villagers have read it already.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...estion+lithium


It's involved and there is a lot of science in it. Just go/flow with it. There are also some very good links. Very good links. The thread is well worth someone's time if they are interested.

Love

Nora

we are all related

[Nora]

onawah you really made me smile

I saw a great bumper sticker the other day.
It said, "The day of Non-Judgement is near."

Love

Nora

we are all related