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Thread: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

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    United States Avalon Member Alien Ramone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by Omni connexae! (here)
    Quote Posted by Adi (here)
    Errm.... maybe something called time-travel, super luminal travel ect.
    Ok, I can't stop people seeing what ever they want to see, fair enough. Cherry pick away...

    cba going into the details, people don't seem that concerned about that here.

    I'll just give you something to ask yourself:

    1. What theory would this refute?

    2. What theory said superluminal travel will = going backwords in time?
    I think I see your point Omni connexae, but I also see why people are excited at this discovery being released and how it might relate to alleged Black Ops stories.

    1.Based on the following Wikipedia quote I can see how the discovery wouldn't necessarily refute Einsteins theories:
    "Under the special theory of relativity, a particle (that has mass) with subluminal velocity needs infinite energy to accelerate to the speed of light, although special relativity does not forbid the existence of particles that travel faster than light at all times (tachyons)."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

    2. Although faster than light travel is commonly accepted as implying time travel based on Einsteins theories, if a tachyon can't be used to communicate faster than the speed of light or some similar way, I can see how it wouldn't necessarily imply time travel. Here is a web page which gives an example related to faster than light travel implying time travel:
    http://sheol.org/throopw/tachyon-pistols.html

    The announcement is still exciting in the sense that, although it doesn't necessarily give a lot of credibility to alleged Black Ops stories that are out there, it still seems to be a step closer in either discovery or disclosure related to those stories, just due to faster than light travel and time travel being related based on Einsteins theories.

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    Belgium Avalon Member Violet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    I've had a discussion about this in daily-life surroundings. The only thing it brought up with was the tangibility of time-travel now that greater speeds have been proven possible (as good as?).

    My opinion was and still is that time travel is not possible in our world/reality. Perhaps in some parallel dimension in which time travellers would eventually end up in another reality. But then again, we would not be able to verify that, being stuck here.

    Furthermore, since we have no knowledge of the physical laws in parallel dimensions (provided we accept their existence) we can not speak of time travel because we do not know of the concept of time if any, in that particular parallel dimension.

    Anywhoo, I also have the feeling that nothing new is being revealed here to the masses. This just seems to confirm what many whistleblowers have been telling us about the extraordinary spatial progress as it's been going on behind the scene.

    And even if Einstein's theory was not perfect, his contributions (for so far as completely spread) seem to have been very valuable. I don't like to see people trashed just because they made one mistake. Scientists are also humans.
    Last edited by Violet; 26th September 2011 at 14:37. Reason: Want to add something about Einstein

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Paraphrased from comment at physorg (apologies to the original Author I've lost the URL so can't attribute).

    Riddle me this

    Light leaves the sun at the same speed in all directions.

    Photon A leaves sun at exactly the same time Photon B leaves in the opposite direction.

    What is the speed of Photon B in relation to the observer on Photon A ??

    I know some will recognise this as a logical phallacy but for those who do I hope you appreciate why the rest of us mere mortals might have a hard time with it...

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    United States Avalon Member Alien Ramone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by Mad Hatter (here)
    Photon A leaves sun at exactly the same time Photon B leaves in the opposite direction.

    What is the speed of Photon B in relation to the observer on Photon A ??
    Since most of us aren't physicists here, you might end up getting a lot of different responses that may or may not be correct. I used to be interested in the subject and from the things I read and have seen in videos, here is how I think it would work. A hypothetical observation from Photon "A" would observe the sun moving away from it the speed of light without Photon "B" ever escaping. Basically everything would seem frozen in time to Photon "A". A hypothetical observation from Photon "B" would observe the sun moving away from it at the speed of light without Photon "A" ever escaping. Other things to keep in mind are that objects are thinner in the direction of travel to an observer as they accelerate and would take up no space at the speed of light if that were possible and would have infinite mass if they didn't have a zero rest mass.

    It might make more sense to think of objects moving away from the sun at close to the speed of light instead of at the speed of light. From the sun's point of view "A" and "B" would be moving away from it in opposite directions at close to the speed of light. "B" over a set period of time would see itself as very far away from the sun while seeing "A" as much closer to the sun and would see "A" as moving faster than the sun sees it moving, but still slower than the speed of light. "A" would see things the opposite of "B" from it's point of view with "A" being far away from the sun and "B" being closer. The reason for this is that observers in different frames of references can see things as being in different locations and can see events as happening at different times. (Based on hypothetical instantaneous observations)

    The only way it will make sense is if you think about many of the different thought experiments that are online or in books about time and distance dilation and dig into the equations a little. In some of the thought experiments inertia comes into play and that's even more difficult to intuitively understand.

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by w1ndmill (here)
    It's a little unfair that Einstein's theory is now being billed as wrong. Lots of things have been proved using Einstein's theory as a platform, otherwise it wouldn't have held up for such a long time. Science, like everything else, is growing all the time. This latest finding is just another path on the road to discovery. I say good for Einstein and let's give him a round of applause for a theory that has stood up for more than 60 years!

    A little off topic but I always thought that the speed of thought could equal the speed of light ? ? ? I gather that, even though we're completely unaware of it, a message is generated one tenth of second before we think we've thought it.

    Thoughts are information , basically and light /energy on any frequency is but a carriage .

    Information travel fastest in the Universe, of all things . It travels fastest within the realm of biological universe.

    Living Universe is an Intelligence . Imagine all the complicay that non living nature would produce 'this' ?

    It's not happening ...we are born of mothers ...the same way we are born from Spirit , in better terms we are descendants of biological intelligence which is organized on higher level than we are .

    Living Universe has its own Time ..

    How do we know , because and only till there's consciousness, if there's none there's no 'I', no 'You', not anyone to think a thought or do a conscious move .
    Consciousness is so called Self-Born , it lasts as long as it remains


    Within that infinitely small moment of time ...a lots happens , life forms are born to their own worlds, big and small,
    ants and elephants, what is an elephant in your world ..is an ant to a microbe .

    There are dimensions within dimensions and each have their own time ..


    Consciousness is the intelligence forming ideas within infinitely small realm of time in the frame of physical universe but ..it interacts with it in its own way ,

    they are yin and yang, the strong and the subtle ..


    How do we know again, it is from experience , we can communicate with biological intelligence of other beings .


    You talk to an ant ..it has to be quite an experience ..it might be end of his life ..

    How long do you think he lives inside his mind ? ''All life'' . The average of his species . His ancestor , the ancient ant was many times bigger ..

    Yet , see how the biological times and physical circumstances are barely matching , you intrude to each others world .


    The same way we are part and in communication with other advanced intelligencies in the universe .


    Relativity is still valid with living systems, you see .




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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Oops, I shouldn't peek in here like this, very rude.
    But...

    The proposition of Photon A and Photon B, is a mind experiment. And here's the prpblem with those, including Shroedinger's (?) cat, - it's impossible for an observer to be either on Photon A or Photon B to make such an observation. And in Shroedinger's cat, no one can be in the box with the cat. What's more, when proposing these scenarios what it occuring is the assembly of a perfectly closed system where the impossible becomes possible.

    Hope that helps.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by Mad Hatter (here)
    Paraphrased from comment at physorg (apologies to the original Author I've lost the URL so can't attribute).

    Riddle me this

    Light leaves the sun at the same speed in all directions.

    Photon A leaves sun at exactly the same time Photon B leaves in the opposite direction.

    What is the speed of Photon B in relation to the observer on Photon A ??

    I know some will recognise this as a logical phallacy but for those who do I hope you appreciate why the rest of us mere mortals might have a hard time with it...


    Problem , no ? Do you create much problems to everyone too

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    On the subject of poor Albert:

    1. It is said that many of his discoveries were made by Mrs Einstein - makes you wonder why they weren't shot down ages ago.
    2. He didn't like 'spooky action at a distance', but he is also famous for saying 'God doesn't play dice'.

    No, God doesn't 'play' dice - he cheats, and his trump card is... 'spooky action at a distance'.


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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Oops, I shouldn't peek in here like this, very rude.
    But...

    The proposition of Photon A and Photon B, is a mind experiment. And here's the prpblem with those, including Shroedinger's (?) cat, - it's impossible for an observer to be either on Photon A or Photon B to make such an observation. And in Shroedinger's cat, no one can be in the box with the cat. What's more, when proposing these scenarios what it occuring is the assembly of a perfectly closed system where the impossible becomes possible.

    Hope that helps.
    Here is a vague memory of Schrodinger's book What is Life? Man for example has to be about as big as he is so that the number of his atoms is large enough to offset any statistical quantum effect relating to specific atoms. Will check for a quote if anyone is interested


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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    That's what for you have 4th dimensional physics you see .. Photon A and B can't leave the nuclear reaction at the same time , everything is happening in a chain, time lock in reality .

    ''They leave at the same time'' you see . Time is a spin . They travel on sinus wave .

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
    Since we are meandering off topic ... let me inject one more.

    Pre-calculus.

    Who says you can't teach an old cow new tricks???




    It's always good to have some fasionable conditioning ...


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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by Mad Hatter (here)
    Paraphrased from comment at physorg (apologies to the original Author I've lost the URL so can't attribute).

    Riddle me this

    Light leaves the sun at the same speed in all directions.

    Photon A leaves sun at exactly the same time Photon B leaves in the opposite direction.

    What is the speed of Photon B in relation to the observer on Photon A ??

    I know some will recognise this as a logical phallacy but for those who do I hope you appreciate why the rest of us mere mortals might have a hard time with it...
    As somebody said up here, not all of us are physicists. So, I'll grant all physicists here the pleasure of a layman's attempt.

    I would say that the observer would sense a speed increased by one times his own speed. So, if both leave at the speed of time, observer photon A would think photon B to be travelling at twice the speed of light (I don't know how you could ever think such a thing - I can't even think of how one time speed of light would differ from one and a half time speed of light - but hey).

    But if the observer used accurate measuring tools he should come to the conclusion that they are both actually travelling at the same speed.

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    It is like saying this infinity is bigger than that infinity...
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Pardon me please if someone already made this comment but Nikola Tesla found that in 1899 and patented it on the following year. Officially US patent was recognized in 1905. He named those particles Neutrino.
    SO a century before Cern... HELLO!!!

    Yep it was easier to brand him mad scientist for being not aligned with JP Morgan and banksters...
    Love, love - and see what happens

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by The One (here)
    Scientists at the world's largest physics lab think they may have proved Albert Einstein's theory of relativity wrong - by breaking the speed of light.
    Oops -- looks like it was just a bad connector .

    From BREAKING NEWS: Error Undoes Faster-Than-Light Neutrino Results (Science Insider - 22 February 2012):
    Quote It appears that the faster-than-light neutrino results, announced last September by the OPERA collaboration in Italy, was due to a mistake after all. A bad connection between a GPS unit and a computer may be to blame.

    Physicists had detected neutrinos travelling from the CERN laboratory in Geneva to the Gran Sasso laboratory near L'Aquila that appeared to make the trip in about 60 nanoseconds less than light speed. Many other physicists suspected that the result was due to some kind of error, given that it seems at odds with Einstein's special theory of relativity, which says nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. That theory has been vindicated by many experiments over the decades.

    According to sources familiar with the experiment, the 60 nanoseconds discrepancy appears to come from a bad connection between a fiber optic cable that connects to the GPS receiver used to correct the timing of the neutrinos' flight and an electronic card in a computer. After tightening the connection and then measuring the time it takes data to travel the length of the fiber, researchers found that the data arrive 60 nanoseconds earlier than assumed. Since this time is subtracted from the overall time of flight, it appears to explain the early arrival of the neutrinos. New data, however, will be needed to confirm this hypothesis.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    The CERN particle physics laboratory in Geneva has confirmed Wednesday's report that a loose fiber-optic cable may be behind measurements that seemed to show neutrinos outpacing the speed of light. But the lab also says another glitch could have caused the experiment to underestimate the particles' speed.

    http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencein...ne.html?ref=hp

    I love this back and forth, but it does demonstrate science at work. I think this beautifully demonstrates why belief is not the operative word but rather tedious, continuous, excruciatingly painful attention to details kind of work is at the core of science and why it takes so long for confidence to build to the point of announcement.

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Quote Posted by Intranuclear (here)
    But the lab also says another glitch could have caused the experiment to underestimate the particles' speed.
    I merged your new thread, with this additional news about possibly underestimating the particle's speed, into the existing thread discussing this experiment and whether it demonstrated faster than light motion.
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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    Before few months they told that soon can achieve information from materials... like the stone start talking... I think that as usual there and many others researches that hey made, but they are kept from public knowledge...

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    Default Re: Amazement As Speed Of Light Is Broken... Was Einstein Wrong?

    That experiment that proved that light did not travel at the correct speed was on high energy gamma bursts travelling across basically the entire universe. This doesn't prove einstein incorrect, but more speaks of the topology of the smallest scale of the universe. Small cars feel the road much more roughly. Small light too feels the bumps in the topology of the plank scale and over an incredible distance is shown to "change" the speed of light. Don't get me wrong, Einstein is wrong about a few things, but light is pretty well behaved (despite having vast capacities outside of scientific attribution).

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