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Thread: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

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    Scotland Avalon Member Muzz's Avatar
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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    THanks for this thread, this is one simple way we can all unplug from one part of the control system.





    Quote Cooperate with nature, dont confront it
    - Sepp Holzer



    Joy Larkcom's book Grow Your Own Veg is very helpfull.
    Last edited by Muzz; 3rd October 2011 at 09:17.

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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Another person keeps posting about the importance of water. Quite right, he is. I've done extensive research is this area and found out many disturbing facts. One fact-did you know after the year 2006, there has been an annual conference concerning the shortage of fresh water? Did you know fresh water lakes, aquifers, and other under ground lakes are being purchased en mass by the wealthy (businesses and other entities) globally? Once I found this out, I was more concerned about how to have a water supply which I could control instead of someone else. My research led me to save for aquaculture, personally designing a water filtration system which recycles all water from the household, cistern creation; this all led to my designing a self contained/ sustainable small community - water/electricity/food/shelter - are not issues. One general contractor looked over the construction dubbed it 'the hobbit homes'.
    Food is one thing, if you do not have the water, clean&purified, life will not be sustained. Once your water supply is intact, then, IMHO, people should design their way of life around the cycle of water.
    If you're not learning, you're not living

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    United States Honored, Retired Member. Ron passed in October 2022.
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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Depression era cooking with 93 year old Clara. She is delightful and shares a little of her valuable experience during times of scarcity.
    Clara will warm your heart.

    Pasta and peas
    Egg Drop Soup
    The Poorman's Meal
    Peppers and Eggs
    Fresh Bread (Peppers and Eggs Part 2)
    Cooked Bread
    Depression Breakfast
    Poorman's Feast

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    Avalon Member Seikou-Kishi's Avatar
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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    RMauerSr (I think I've got that right) those videos were excellent! That's exactly what people need to know to learn how to make nutritious and satisfying food. It reminds me of what I said in my first post about self-sufficiency not having to be a chore.

    When I gather the nut harvest from my hazel trees, I grind a number of them to a paste and add a little cocoa powder (with no exact measures; I play it by ear). It's much healthier than commercial things like nutella, has a better consistency and the children love it (one of them wouldn't even touch nuts before). Admittedly, in terms of self-sufficiency cocoa powder might be harder to come across, but it's a good way of making those hazelnuts into something the kids will enjoy :-)

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    Avalon Member leavesoftrees's Avatar
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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Quote Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
    Earlier, I spoke a little about making washes to drive away pests but I feel remiss in that I neglected to mention nature's own pest control detail.
    Hello SK, thanks for this thread - very informative. I try to grow vegetables each year, but don't have too much luck. Rats get into my vegetables, so I only get to eat a few from each crop. Do you have any suggestions for keeping rats and possums out. I guess the way to go is good fencing, but can be expensive

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    Avalon Member Seikou-Kishi's Avatar
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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Quote Posted by leavesoftrees (here)
    Quote Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
    Earlier, I spoke a little about making washes to drive away pests but I feel remiss in that I neglected to mention nature's own pest control detail.
    Hello SK, thanks for this thread - very informative. I try to grow vegetables each year, but don't have too much luck. Rats get into my vegetables, so I only get to eat a few from each crop. Do you have any suggestions for keeping rats and possums out. I guess the way to go is good fencing, but can be expensive
    Hi, I'm sorry to hear of your bad luck and while I have no experience with possums (wrong tectonic plate ) I do have some experience with rats. Fortunately for me, I have wild cats and owls on my land, and they do a great job in that regard. With anything like rats it's the opposite equation compared to things like ladybirds, but essentially the same thought process. Two questions here are the crux of the issue: what is it that attracts rats and possums to your land, and what is there that could dissuade them? All we really have to do is swing the balance so far that the disadvantages to ransacking your crops outweigh the benefits and we can do that in several ways.

    The first is to sour the milk. Rats and possums are attracted to the food in your garden, so make that food unpalatable. Garlic is a very good at keeping things like rats away because the plant has pegged its survival on being repugnant to most animals. Many friends with gardens of a certain size find garlic powder useful; depending on the size of your garden, you may find it beneficial to sprinkle garlic powder around the perimeter as a deterrence. At speciality outlets, garlic powder can be bought by the kilogram as though it were sugar or flour. I'm not sure what the efficacy of garlic salt would be, though.

    My best suggestion though would be to create a natural barrier. In many English country houses, the garden has a small trench to keep 'wild' animals like sheep and deer away from the house while not harming them and not disrupting the view. They're called ha-has, and a problem with rats and possums would require only a very small ha-ha to be dug. It is essentially a ditch which slopes down on the outer side (the side facing away from your growing area) with a steep perpendicular wall on the other. Animals are allowed into the ditch and out again by the shallow incline (and so aren't harmed), but are prevented from passing any further by the wall. This solution does not cause any harm at all — not even discomfort, it just makes your crops unavailable.

    I include a link to the wikipedia entry on ha-has, which include a diagram which will no doubt help you implement the design in your garden.

    I'll ask around my like-minded friends and see if anybody has any other ideas which might help.

    I hope these do it for you though :-)

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    United States Avalon Member GCS1103's Avatar
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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Quote Posted by Ilie Pandia (here)
    This is a most useful thread! Even if I can't contribute much I'd like to know more so please keep it up!
    I agree- It's a very productive thread for everyone. I can't contribute anything either, but I sure have learned a lot from all the posts. There are some really ingenious members here and I want to thank you all again.

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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    A homemade hand pump for retrieving well water has been designed Keith Hendricks who lives in northwestern Ohio. Keith has distributed thousands of copies to folks attending survival expos because he believes we are all in for rocky times and that personal preparedness is our best defense. In an effort to make a contribution, he has made his easy-to-assemble pump available to all who wish it. If you have any further questions, or wish to express personal thanks, Keith can be contacted at patriot@ohio.tds.net

    Keith states he built this hand pump in 20 minutes for about US$20. It can be used in water wells that have no existing feed lines, wiring or submersible pumps in place, or in water wells with them in place

    Parts List and Assembly Instructions

    If electric power becomes intermittent water will be a critical resource. A plan for getting water should be top priority. Such a plan may be impossible in the cities.

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    Default Re:Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Hi Goldie, the very purpose of this thread is for those who have experience and know-how to be able to share it with those who do not. You and Ilie have both said that you do not have much to contribute, but that is what this thread is for: if we were only talking about things everybody knew, this thread would have been redundant for the first post. This thread is your thread.

    Hi RMauerSr, you're right that water is very essential but I was hoping that this thread be more of a grow-your-own discussion. As it happens, I'm not one of those who believe that disaster will strike any day and I have to be prepared with stockpiles of everything I can think of, and I am much more inline with the thinking espoused on Ilie's great Free Energy thread (here) and on Wade Frazier's enormous thread (here); I am not a fan of the scarcity-based mindset of ferreting away for a rainy day because it's really got that awful sort of soul-decaying 'life has to be endured' flavour. I'm not one who wants to eke out my living at all costs — my living isn't all that important to me :-)

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Hi,

    Here is my little contribution about Cacti and arid plants. First I'll post some links. Our pal Google has pages of information about Cacti. Here are some links to get you started.

    Nopales: www.localharvest.org

    www.motherearthnews.com cacti in general

    Edible Desert Plants:

    http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/wry/hea...ts-cactusfruit
    article barrel cactus

    www.wilderness-survival.net edible cactus


    I lived in the desert for 6 1/2 years in America. The high desert for 5 yrs. and in a low desert region 1 1/2 yrs. -one of hottest and most arid in the US.

    Here is a little bit about what I know of some Cacti:

    All edible Cacti are very high in Vitamins A & C. All if the fruits. commonly known as apples are edible. Rough off spine/stickers/ or scrape skin, peel skin or open -inside pulp & seed are edible, all fruits from Cacti can be made into jellies and are delicious.

    Pulp/water inside of some Cacti are edible (caution diuretic raw) eat/drink in small doses w/long intervals in between.

    Edible Cacti

    Nopales: Pads -peel skins cook or eat raw good in anything/ pulp can be made into jelly. (caution diuretic raw)

    Barrel Cactus: Cut open drink/eat pulp (caution very diuretic) eat in small doses w/long intervals.

    Prickly Pear: Pads peel skins cook or eat raw good in anything. Pulp can be made into jelly. (caution diuretic raw)
    The pads of the Prickly Pear Cactus are one of natures best healers. They are good for any Staphylococcus infections -open or closed wounds; spider/insect bites, poisonous/toxic bites or any kind of of infection, bite or wound. If you can try and find the very dark green thick pads. Cut off pad from plant, rough off/cut off spines/stickers, peel/slice off skin of one side of pad -leave skin on other side of pad. Gently place pulp side of pad onto wound/infection. Firmly wrap (not to tight) with gauze or bandage to keep pad in place. Leave pad on for 12 to 24 hrs -then check wound/infection. Place pad back on or refresh pad & wrap again.
    After/within 4 days infection/wound should be on its way to healing. Note: Wound/infection may swell or become worse within 12 -24 hrs. sometimes this is part of the healing process and will go down after 24 hrs. If you are able to always wash the infected area/wound thoroughly before application.

    Yucca Tree/Plant: White flowers edible used a lone, salads or soups. Base of plant pulp just above root of plant can be scraped out and used as wash for hair.

    Aloe Barbadensis: Aloe Vera, Aloe Ferox Pulp can be eaten (again diuretic) also good for the skin. Grows all over the world. Subtropical and arid lands.


    Most Cacti grow well in pots/ use light porous sandy soil (no clay). Also don't over water, if your cactus starts to turn yellowish/reddish/orangish in color back way off of the water- it can drown or cause moldy roots & die.

    Another note about cactus they thrive in a southerly direction and if for some reason someone finds themselves lost in the desert -find a cactus they always grow leaning to the south.

    When working with cactus it's always a good idea to have a very good thick/heavy pair of leather or rubber gloves, very sharp knife and a pair of tongs is always nice to have around when removing pads.

    I hope I contributed something good to this thread and anyone who has knowledge or suggestions or info knows about a good book about arid plants please share.

    Nora

    we are all related

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    I have to agree with the Mr Lord Sid on this one, If you eat dehydrated foods then it has to re-hydrate from somewhere, YOU!!!.
    Once your de-hydrated food is re-hydrated from you then you are pretty much screwed.

    If you do not believe that a good supply of water is or will be available, then, dont use re-hydrateable food.
    Love. peace and Blessings to you all.

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Quote Posted by Ammit (here)
    I have to agree with the Mr Lord Sid on this one, If you eat dehydrated foods then it has to re-hydrate from somewhere, YOU!!!.
    Once your de-hydrated food is re-hydrated from you then you are pretty much screwed.

    If you do not believe that a good supply of water is or will be available, then, dont use re-hydrateable food.
    Even though I learned that in the army and they only tell you what they want you to know, they don't particularly want you to go down with heat exhaustion/dehydration.
    And bearing in mind that I served in the Australian outback, water is something they teach us about a lot.

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Thanks for your reply SK. My land is only little more than a courtyard garden ( about an 1/8th of an acre) in an inner urban suburb. Still I can grow a lemon, lime, fig and plum tree, tomatoes, cucumber, beetroots, zucchini , strawberries , rhubarb, corn and lots of herbs. I have never heard of garlic powder but will see if i can source it. Given space constraints, a haha is not so practical.

    the best thing I have done for my garden is spray 500 twice a year. I've only done it for a couple of years, but the difference is extraordinary. People are amazed at my rhubarb crop. Biodynamic gardening rocks.

    http://backyardbiodynamics.com/

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    Avalon Member nearing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Quote Posted by leavesoftrees (here)
    Thanks for your reply SK. My land is only little more than a courtyard garden ( about an 1/8th of an acre) in an inner urban suburb. Still I can grow a lemon, lime, fig and plum tree, tomatoes, cucumber, beetroots, zucchini , strawberries , rhubarb, corn and lots of herbs. I have never heard of garlic powder but will see if i can source it. Given space constraints, a haha is not so practical.

    the best thing I have done for my garden is spray 500 twice a year. I've only done it for a couple of years, but the difference is extraordinary. People are amazed at my rhubarb crop. Biodynamic gardening rocks.

    http://backyardbiodynamics.com/
    What is 500?
    "In science, I discovered, you cannot find the Truth."
    --Marcel Messing (during an interview with Bill Ryan)

    We demand Tesla technology

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    Palestinian Territory Avalon Member thunder24's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Earthships seem to be an easy way to have a continueal abundance of goods for everyhome...

    I watched this dudes video...he grew bannanas and pineapple in his canadian home...

    Highrise farms across globe would solve theworld food "shortage".

    however there is nothing like getting back to the greatoutdoors and sinking your hands in the dirt.

    peace
    OBADIAH 1:21
    The Good things in life

    "...where ever you go, there you are..."

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    What we all need is to grow using heritage seed, its not hard, but your crops will be the best you ever saw..... I am awaiting my second delivery of heritage seed and then next years crops are solved.

    Heritage seeds:http://www.realseeds.co.uk
    Last edited by Ammit; 4th October 2011 at 22:43.
    Love. peace and Blessings to you all.

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Great link Ammit; we should definitely be growing organic food without foreign genes :D

    I think I'm going to scour that site now :D

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    My garden was mainly lawns, 120feet long by about 40 feet wide, I have slowly been stripping away the lawn to make growing patches. As my shoulders are buggered I have just invested in a cultivator. I can recomend these lovely tools as for less then 1/2 litre of fuel, it made ready my ground in 45 mins and this was a piece 40 feet by 18 feet.

    The soil now resembles a seed bed and now it is done, I will never have to dig again just run the Mantis over it every now and then.
    Considering I cook a lot and have kept my eyes on supermarket prices, I think it wise to invest in your available land to grow your own food.. Frozen veg has risen by 65p - 1.10 in the last 2 months.........

    I have to add that the ground was hard lumps of freshly turned soil, this was under the lawn yesterday.
    Love. peace and Blessings to you all.

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Quote Posted by nearing (here)
    What is 500?
    500 is what is used in Biodynamic gardening. It is cow ****, that has been put into cow horns along with herbs, and buried in the ground for 6 months over winter. When it is unearthed it is quite changed. This is then mixed into warm water and stirred for an hour and then applied to the garden. This is usually done in spring and autumn

    It doesn't sound as though this would do anything, but as soon as you walk into a biodynamic garden you know that there is something different about it.

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    Default Re: Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

    Seikou- I think you mean lady bugs.. they are good but I found that they were not sufficiently helpful when a berry bush of mine got attacked by a godzillion aphids. There were about 15 lady bugs on the bush too... and not a very big bush., 18 inches tall. But a spay of dish soap got rid of them.

    So this is the second year of vegetable gardening for me. I do it for the joy of it and I do it to create self sustainablity in our increasingly unstable world.

    Because I am no longer a spring chicken when I approached the idea of gardening at first all I could think of was the annual pain that weed pulling brings on. If I was to garden and to really garden meaningfully I must find an easier way.

    So along came the idea of Lasagana gardening, also known as layered gardening. I quickly saw the benefit and reduced labor the concept presents.
    But of course the setting up stage is always the hardest.

    When we moved to the mountains 2 years ago we settled upon a fully undeveloped acreage. If we wanted anything done we had to do it. There was no house waiting for us, no warm retreat, no gardens waiting to be spaded.

    Once I determined the location of the garden to be I solicited the help of my dear husband, I explained to him the need for raised beds as I did not want to spend the next 20 on my knees, although I realize that in the long term this might be great for the body, in the short term it lends to quite a bit of pain... but recent life experience has shown me that the short term seems to have no limits or bounds... there is always pain from excessive gardening and overdoing it can be a daily event.

    The raised bed were constructed to contain the lasagna beds. We purchased some cedar planks that were on special because they had too many faults in them. The 2 large beds are 18 inches high and 12 feet by 4 feet. The two smaller beds are 4x4.

    Becasuse we have a terrible problem with volls here who will dig up from the bottom and eat all your efforts we lined the bottom of the beds with 1/2 inch wire mesh, stapled onto the frame.

    A lasagna bed is self composting. Once you have it in place the process requires little physical work. You will never have to turn a compost pile again. Your plants will rise up out of fluffy mulch that absorbs water well and is refuge to the fattest worms.

    To start your bed you need the essential ingredients on hand.
    a pile of leaves
    a bale of straw
    a pile of goat, horse,steer or chicken maneur
    a pile of grass clipping
    a bale of alfalfa hay

    Enough cardboard or newspaper to fully line your bed in a one inch layer.
    Layer this first. It will keep all grass and other perinneal weeds from coming up
    and you will have an essentially weed free bed, except for the few stragglers that blow in
    or came in in your compost.

    you will notice that I have green elements here and brown elements. You need at least one green element, one brown element and one maneur.

    It does not matter much which order that you layer your bed, but always encase a green element between two brown elements. Your maneur should be placed on top of your green element. Most often I have had 4 elements to work with. Simply make layers in your bed about 2 inches thick and repeat the pattern until your bed is about 3 inches from the top of your frame. The one exception is in green grass and chicken maneur. Grass should only be one inch thick and chicken maneur should be scattered about no more than 1/2 inch thick and it does not need to cover every square inch. Both grass and chicken maneur can get very hot and the roots of your plants may not like it. For the other maneurs use stuff that has been sitting in the stall or in a pile for at least one year.

    Once your bed is filled it is time to creat your planting layer. For this I mix some top soil with an aged maneur to create a 2 inch top layer where my seeds will go. You can also used a purchased planting mix if you are inclined. I mixed a planting mix into the topsoil and maneur the first year but didn't bother the second year.

    Now your bed is ready for seed. The bed will be spongy feeling. As time goes by over the summer the bed will sink as it composts and turns into rich mulch and soil. You can add your favorite earth worms at any time. Buy the end of the season the soil will only be about 5 or 6 inches thick but still thick enough to nourish all your plants.

    Once your layers are in you never till it or turn it. It is very easy to weed as the soil is so light the roots of the weeds just come right out. Of course the framed beds are great because you can sit on the frame and do your work, and you don't have to bend down so far. It is also easy to cover the beds with plastic or netting if needed to protect from frost or sun or even insects like grasshoppers

    After your harvest you can rebuild your bed in the fall or wait till next spring. I also have a lasagna bed in a giant old tractor tire that holds my more sensitive eggplants. They like it warm and there is no guaranteed warm even in the summer around here. They are doing great.

    Building the frames for raised beds was great but a little spendy. Cedar or redwood is not cheap. Some people use plain old pine and line the bed walls with black plastic before filling it. The plastic keeps the wetness from working on the pine and composting that too. If you use a treated wood or OPC board you certainly want to line it to keep the chemicals out of your soil. The bottom of the bed does not need to be lined. Using lessor woods of course costs less but presents these other problems. Do not nail your bed frame together but use 2 or 3 inch wood screws for a tigher more durable hold.

    Because I enjoyed my garden so much, over the winter I had fantasy of increasing my growing area but dh said no more money was to go to building frames with cedar and I just didn't want plastic lined beds... so guess I was to be forced to my knees. I decided that if a lasagna bed could be built in a frame it could also be built on plane old land. I had a low spot in the earth near the beds so I decided I could fill it up.

    Following the same procedure for the beds I built up the land with first cardboard because there was a lot of grass to kill, then layers. Eventually it raised about four inches above the surrounding land becasue the land was a low spot. Right now I have a multitude of vegetables in there... 5 zuccini plants, 14 cabbage, 16 broccoli, 6 cauliflower 2 butternut, 2 cucumber, 3 borage, 2 acorn, and a few unknown squash and a row of giant sunflower. Since it took me so long to make this bed in the spring as it is fairly large, my planting was late and hence my harvest too. Butternuts are here now but Im not sure they will fully develop before the first frost which could be any day now.

    I did make some errors with this large bed. I put too many grass clippings in. We had such an abundance of grass and no place to keep it it all ended up in there and some plants really didn't like it. It took out almost all of my green cabbage and a couple of broccoli in areas where it was thickest. Red cabbage didnt seem to mind... so this is why I say only one inch of green grass per grass layer. Afer harvest I am considering running a the plow through it to mix all that grass in. We are fortunate to have a tractor but a small roto tiller or even by hand with a pitchfork could mend my error as the soil is light and easy to work.

    I also used lasagna method for my potatoes. I have an 18 foot row of piled layers about 3 feet wide. The potatoes loved it last year. This year I learned about not watering potatoes from above too frequently. They got watered more than they should have because they are right next to my new bed. This caused potato blight, black spots on the leaves towards the end of the season. The potatoes are still good but should not be used for seed next year. A deep freeze kills blight in the soil.

    This fall I will be constructing a new smaller lasagna bed... one designed specifically for garlic. This too will not be in a frame but flat on the land.

    So far I have managed to sell produce at the farmers market, supply some neighbors with veggies, and put away 95 veggie portions via canning or freezing. I still may be able to eek out a few more before the deep freeze hits... and this does not include the potatoes or carrots which I haven't dug up yet. Almost sustainable for the winter, but not quite. Next year bigger and better is on its way.

    So here's to my favorite time and place... sunset in the garden will my favorite wine, cats chasing the butterflies, husband working on the roof in the cool of the evening, dog asleep in the grass, neighbors bicycling by, rabbits scurrying though the sage, eagle calling in the distance, sky alive with clouds of fire

  39. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Arrowwind For This Post:

    Ammit (5th October 2011), Lord Sidious (5th October 2011), Maria Stade (20th November 2011), Ron Mauer Sr (6th October 2011), thunder24 (5th October 2011)

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