The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

It seems to me that some of you guys like this concept because you think this is communism as it is meant to be.
Yet there is so much missing from their equation that it screams out to me ''suspicious'' and demands questioning.

Well not exactly.. I'm actually speaking from a designer point of view. Not a political one. I'm not implying that the venus project is offering a working system. I find it being on the right track as a resources based economy is to me a lot more able to promote true development. The implications of profit driven economies are huge in terms of the creation of our material world. There are so many drawbacks that it really is a cancer for the development of humanity. So many good ideas that would benefit people are just abandoned because those are not "financially viable", programmed obsolescence is a cynical joke in the face of third world countries as we keep on extracting the needed raw materials for this capitalist orgy. Those are facts my friend, I'm thankfull to Circe for his commitment to research the subject, but I really think it is biased either by his own assumptions (check out the title of his post...) or the ones expressed by the people he quoted. He draws ties that are really questionable to say the least. It is in no way an attempt to remain objective as he already convinced himself of the links between the nwo and jacques fresco... I worked for the venus project for a while, and, from what I have seen and exchanged, the arguments in Circes' post don't hold.

I would agree about the profit driven system being a cancer, whether or not the resources based economy is the answer, I don't know.
To clarify, did you work for them, or is that meant to be a quote from elsewhere?
I am not convinced, not even close, that the so called venus project isn't some project of the same people that have caused what we have now.

I also am miffed that you right off his opinion in such an offhanded manner.

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
Didn't mean to right off anyones' opinion, I guess dissent is welcome on those pages. Sorry if I've hurt anyone. Just didn't like the approach, the post is, to me, willingly trying to debunk the venus project. Which, again, from my point of view, is nearing paranoia.
Still, glad I could miff the dark lord, thought he was standing one step above that..

The thing is, even if you don't like someones opinion, if you wish to dispute what they say, do so, but don't make more work for Bill and his team.
We have had enough trouble to clean up in the near past, we don't need more.
The fact that you see him as nearing paranoia, or any of us for wanting to debunk the venus project tells me a LOT more about you than them.
You are a true believer and don't like it being knocked, nothing wrong with that, but when you start that crap, you are well out of order.
And yes, you irritated me, because we don't need more burrs under our saddles.
We are here looking for spiritual answers to our issues, not more political systems.
But if that is your interest, go for it.

[bluestflame]

to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by bluestflame (here)
to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

See? Now you did it, you found a flaw.
Watch out, you're next on the list to be called paranoid.

[buckminster fuller]

Did work on the last movie. Did you actually get familiar with what fresco is defending ?
There is not much chances that he's wilingly into conspiracy. His ideas might have been used sideways by third parties, but I reckon he's genuinely committed to his work.
When linking the venus project to "2012 stuff", I see paranoia, sorry, it's the word that comes to my mind, no intent to hurt feelings here. Connecting dots is not all there is to research, one has to actually comprehend the subject at hand. Play the devils advocate (antithesis) if needed.. I haven't seen that done. All we're left with is speculation. I see no ground for certainty at all.

And no, I'm not looking for political answers as for say, I'm looking for pragmatic ones. I'm a designer, like fresco, and I'm really pissed off as to how we've been managing our material world. Spirituality will not guaranty you food and shelter. My personal "enlightenment" seems very little to me compared to the future we're about to pass on next generations. I was enlightened at birth, like all of you. It is both what we do and how we do it. I'm not waiting for "earth 5th dimension"..

Sorry for the lil irritation.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
Did work on the last movie. Did you actually get familiar with what fresco is defending ?
There is not much chances that he's wilingly into conspiracy. His ideas might have been used sideways by third parties, but I reckon he's genuinely committed to his work.
When linking the venus project to "2012 stuff", I see paranoia, sorry, it's the word that comes to my mind, no intent to hurt feelings here. Connecting dots is not all there is to research, one has to actually comprehend the subject at hand. Play the devils advocate (antithesis) if needed.. I haven't seen that done. All we're left with is speculation. I see no ground for certainty at all.

And no, I'm not looking for political answers as for say, I'm looking for pragmatic ones. I'm a designer, like fresco, and I'm really pissed off as to how we've been managing our material world. Spirituality will not guaranty you food and shelter. My personal "enlightenment" seems very little to me compared to the future we're about to pass on next generations. I was enlightened at birth, like all of you. It is both what we do and how we do it. I'm not waiting for "earth 5th dimension"..

Sorry for the lil irritation.

The thing is, I never said he was wrong.
What my concern is, is that there are many people out there working to muddy the waters and operate as false prophets.
The whole zeitgeist thing smacks of that to me.
Not all the people involved, but enough that they can steer it where they want.
And not telling people that you had involvement before harms your credibility, in my opinion.

[buckminster fuller]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by bluestflame (here)
to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

See? Now you did it, you found a flaw.
Watch out, you're next on the list to be called paranoid.

There is no possible advantage to be taken without a money system.
I'm not calling people names.

[buckminster fuller]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
Did work on the last movie. Did you actually get familiar with what fresco is defending ?
There is not much chances that he's wilingly into conspiracy. His ideas might have been used sideways by third parties, but I reckon he's genuinely committed to his work.
When linking the venus project to "2012 stuff", I see paranoia, sorry, it's the word that comes to my mind, no intent to hurt feelings here. Connecting dots is not all there is to research, one has to actually comprehend the subject at hand. Play the devils advocate (antithesis) if needed.. I haven't seen that done. All we're left with is speculation. I see no ground for certainty at all.

And no, I'm not looking for political answers as for say, I'm looking for pragmatic ones. I'm a designer, like fresco, and I'm really pissed off as to how we've been managing our material world. Spirituality will not guaranty you food and shelter. My personal "enlightenment" seems very little to me compared to the future we're about to pass on next generations. I was enlightened at birth, like all of you. It is both what we do and how we do it. I'm not waiting for "earth 5th dimension"..

Sorry for the lil irritation.

The thing is, I never said he was wrong.
What my concern is, is that there are many people out there working to muddy the waters and operate as false prophets.
The whole zeitgeist thing smacks of that to me.
Not all the people involved, but enough that they can steer it where they want.
And not telling people that you had involvement before harms your credibility, in my opinion.

I agree I didn't like the zeitgeist movement to become a part of the venus project. You will agree that there are not many documentaries out there that challenge the monetary system as a whole. And joining forces could be a good move (and more reasons to get fakely debunked) Wether there are hidden agendas or not, the underlying ideas and concept remain interesting. One shouldn't throw the bath water with the baby still in the bathtub.. (it's a french expression crudely translated, but I think you'll get the point.)
As for my credibility, make what you want of it, I know where I stand.

[OnyxKnight]

Posted by bluestflame (here)
to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

No man controls the resources. Where is the power and / or advantage Blue?

[Etherios]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by bluestflame (here)
to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

See? Now you did it, you found a flaw.
Watch out, you're next on the list to be called paranoid.

I hope both of you spend 1-2 hours (dont need more) to read what The Venous Project says. Did you? I dont think so else Blue wouldnt ask that Question ...

Its the right thing to do tbh. First read what they talk about, spend some hours evaluating or just reading the materials they have out there and then read the debunkers or the researchers of the topic. It isnt history or scientific data so we cant really be sure what to trust or who.

TVP ideas as all listed in their site. Now from all the things that they have there nothing makes me feel like going communist or NWO or ... As someone said here before me - to link ideas to people is plain wrong.


Lord Sidious i never read anywhere anyone calling you paranoid or anyone else tbh. We are talking about a subject here and we disagree on the way some explain the material at hand. So PLZ give us examples of what seems suspicious to you and not just say it reminds me of communism so its bad. This is paranoid its a way to separate our selves from labels ...

I am still waiting to find someone to say something bad about the Idea that is The Venus Project. Everyone keeps "exposing" the people in it or keeps "exposing" the similarities to other old bad ideas. Still waiting ... i have found some bad points that i think shouldnt be in this idea but thats just me ...

P.S. PLZ go read the site The Venus Project then come back again with "errors"...

With love Themistoklis.

[vibrations]

Guys, I see a venus project as something good. not some definite solution, some perfect option against present system, but something which points to a meaningless economic behavior which produces hunger, criminal and all other social problems.

The no-monetary system is by my point of view very good thing. If we want to be equals between equals, then the economy as we know it today has to disappear.

Just think, there is not one single economic rule which is honest, ethical or morally positive. Everything is based on domination above others with fraud, just to gain more money.

What Venus project do is maybe some good piece of a future puzzle which will build a better society. Off course banks and military and political forces will fight against that with teeth and nails, so all we have to do is focus in something better and not criticized new approaches. MHO off corsé.

[panopticon]

G'day All,

I've watched all the movies, read the websites.
I don't disagree with the sentiment of the Venus Project or Fresco's work itself.
I don't think Fresco is trying to pull a shifty (nor am I implying anybody else is).
I disagree in the reliance on technology as a basis of a design system.
I don't think a monetary system (other than local/complimentary currencies in certain transitional circumstances) is of long term use in an equitable design system.
I am unaware of a transitional plan for the Venus Project other than a trial site with a theme park attachment (this is not meant as a detrimental remark, just the project as I understand it).
This is my primary reason for questioning the ability of the Venus Project to deliver what it promises.
If I am mistaken please someone point me in the direction of information to the contrary.
There are many examples of long term, multi-generational communities that have only recently (last decade or so) started to have difficulty.
Earlier on in this thread Kibbutzim are mentioned and they are definitely in this "multi-generational communities" category. For example, as I understand it, their reliance on free foreign workers have increased the wealth of the hierarchical membership while removing education/employment opportunities of children/grand children. This has contributed, to some extent, in a demographic drift from Kibbutz to Urban centres.

In reviewing how to create a new societal model it is important to be aware of historical movements/groups.
In this way mistakes from the past can be avoided.

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Etherios (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by bluestflame (here)
to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

See? Now you did it, you found a flaw.
Watch out, you're next on the list to be called paranoid.

I hope both of you spend 1-2 hours (dont need more) to read what The Venous Project says. Did you? I dont think so else Blue wouldnt ask that Question ...

Its the right thing to do tbh. First read what they talk about, spend some hours evaluating or just reading the materials they have out there and then read the debunkers or the researchers of the topic. It isnt history or scientific data so we cant really be sure what to trust or who.

TVP ideas as all listed in their site. Now from all the things that they have there nothing makes me feel like going communist or NWO or ... As someone said here before me - to link ideas to people is plain wrong.


Lord Sidious i never read anywhere anyone calling you paranoid or anyone else tbh. We are talking about a subject here and we disagree on the way some explain the material at hand. So PLZ give us examples of what seems suspicious to you and not just say it reminds me of communism so its bad. This is paranoid its a way to separate our selves from labels ...

I am still waiting to find someone to say something bad about the Idea that is The Venus Project. Everyone keeps "exposing" the people in it or keeps "exposing" the similarities to other old bad ideas. Still waiting ... i have found some bad points that i think shouldnt be in this idea but thats just me ...

P.S. PLZ go read the site The Venus Project then come back again with "errors"...

With love Themistoklis.

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
Didn't mean to right off anyones' opinion, I guess dissent is welcome on those pages. Sorry if I've hurt anyone. Just didn't like the approach, the post is, to me, willingly trying to debunk the venus project. Which, again, from my point of view, is nearing paranoia.
Still, glad I could miff the dark lord, thought he was standing one step above that..

Read that then.
If you guys want to be true believers, that is your right.
But don't come here and rubbish us for not wanting to participate.

[buckminster fuller]

just to make things right.. I imputed the word paranoïa over Circe's first long post... Had nothing to do with you, sorry if you unwillingly mistook it as being addressed to you dear.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
just to make things right.. I imputed the word paranoïa over Circe's first long post... Had nothing to do with you, sorry if you unwillingly mistook it as being addressed to you dear.

I never said it was aimed at me, dear.

[Etherios]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Read that then.
If you guys want to be true believers, that is your right.
But don't come here and rubbish us for not wanting to participate.

So you came here not to talk about The Venus project but to tell us that you wont participate? Cause all i said was read before you judge. Then maybe for you knowing what you judge is rubbishing right?

Lord i really hope you take a step back and read this thread again. Then start to attack the people in here. I never rubbished you or anyone else ... i just state the obvious. Know before you judge, i really dont care if you want to believe or not as it wont ever be a reality. TVP is an idea - guideline but you think its a religion or you think anyone is forcing you to do anything?

WoW your reply really made me feel weird and made me go on the defense. WHY? Relax no one is forcing you ... relax.

p.s. I dont see a moderator or Bill Ryan on your Member info so dont tell me what i can come here to do or not thank you.

With love (not pressure really) Themistoklis.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Etherios (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Read that then.
If you guys want to be true believers, that is your right.
But don't come here and rubbish us for not wanting to participate.

So you came here not to talk about The Venus project but to tell us that you wont participate? Cause all i said was read before you judge. Then maybe for you knowing what you judge is rubbishing right?

Lord i really hope you take a step back and read this thread again. Then start to attack the people in here. I never rubbished you or anyone else ... i just state the obvious. Know before you judge, i really dont care if you want to believe or not as it wont ever be a reality. TVP is an idea - guideline but you think its a religion or you think anyone is forcing you to do anything?

WoW your reply really made me feel weird and made me go on the defense. WHY? Relax no one is forcing you ... relax.

p.s. I dont see a moderator or Bill Ryan on your Member info so dont tell me what i can come here to do or not thank you.

With love (not pressure really) Themistoklis.

Why do you assume that I did not read about it?
Maybe that is why I don’t want anything to do with it?
I haven’t attacked anyone.
I never said that you rubbished anyone, but others have.

[mcaballero]

Research all the references of the Zeitgeist movies and you will find interesting surprises.

[panopticon]

Posted by mcaballero (here)
Research all the references of the Zeitgeist movies and you will find interesting surprises.

G'day Mcaballero,

Please point me in the direction of what it is you are trying to point out.
I am happy to view any information.
I do not want to wade through yet another vague reference to a document only to not be able to respond as a thread has moved on or become stagnant.
I have downloaded the (220 page) reference guide to Peter Joseph's work (Zeitgeist) from his groups film website.
As I have stated I do not think any body is trying to rip anybody off in connection to Fresco's work.
I personally do not think that relying on technology for the redesign of an earth bound society is a viable option. Others do. I agree that in an off-world case scenario then it is of use.
Again I ask if there is a transitional plan for The Venus Project other than the introduction of a trial site with theme park (link goes to FAQ and the section I am referring to is FAQ #12)?

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[trenairio]

It seems that the Venus Project does not incorporate vital free energy devices.

[OnyxKnight]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Why do you assume that I did not read about it?
Maybe that is why I don’t want anything to do with it?
I haven’t attacked anyone.
I never said that you rubbished anyone, but others have.

Usually, when people read or watched the TVP and ZM material (or any material for that matter) won't be asking stupid questions.

I said usually...