The case for Christ

[Centauro]

Hey thanks for the response to my last post 58and Fixed, I agree completely to what you said... read it twice and makes a lot of sense as well. I could no find anything the contrary to what my views are.

Thanks again

Roland el Centauro

[58andfixed]

Thanks for the feedback Roland.

I have been known to pontificate, and for this thread I've erred on the side of 'extra' -- a delicate topic indeed.

Would like to encourage independent critical examination, cleaned up of rhetoric, as best I can --- reflecting the best that I could discern over my decades of effort.

- 58

Posted by Centauro (here)
read it twice and makes a lot of sense as well.

[RedeZra]

Posted by panopticon (here)
I see no glory in the God you revere.

i see Satan ruling our world in this Age because Adam and Eve let him

and i see 6000 years of bloody history


i see Satan as the Controller of controllers and the Head of high society

and we all have been brought up to believe lies


i see Jesus Christ as the Creator on the Cross on a soul rescue mission

so those that trust in Him may not perish at the end of the Age

[panopticon]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
i see Satan ruling our world in this Age because Adam and Eve let him
and i see 6000 years of bloody history
i see Satan as the Controller of controllers and the Head of high society
and we all have been brought up to believe lies
i see Jesus Christ as the Creator on the Cross on a soul rescue mission
so those that trust in Him may not perish at the end of the Age

G'day RedEzra,

I'm sorry but I'm having difficulty following your logic.

Are you saying that the Bible is a divine text written by prophets anointed in the name of YHWH and as such is an accurate representation of historical events and translation (though limited by words) of divine purpose?
Are you also saying that the 10 Commandments are the divine Law "handed" to Moses by YHWH and as such any who contravene these (that is "break the covenant") will spend an eternity burning in a sulphurous fire (Hades/Hell), spend a time in sheol or go to Gehinnom?
Finally I would ask what it is you see as being the reward in the afterlife having led a "good and virtuous" life in the light of YHWH and Jesus the Christ.

If this is not the case can you please explain your perspective further.

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[RedeZra]

Posted by panopticon (here)

G'day RedEzra,

I'm sorry but I'm having difficulty following your logic.

Are you saying that the Bible is a divine text written by prophets anointed in the name of YHWH and as such is an accurate representation of historical events and translation (though limited by words) of divine purpose?

Are you also saying that the 10 Commandments are the divine Law "handed" to Moses by YHWH and as such any who contravene these (that is "break the covenant") will spend an eternity burning in a sulphurous fire (Hades/Hell), spend a time in sheol or go to Gehinnom?

Finally I would ask what it is you see as being the reward in the afterlife having led a "good and virtuous" life in the light of YHWH and Jesus the Christ.

hi panopticon

i know it's not exactly what we've been thought in school for the last 300 years or so

but why believe the establishment when you see the liars they are


yes i believe the Bible is true and factual and mostly written or dictated by the Holy Spirit through the pens of men


the Ten Commandments are for us to know what is right and wrong and when the Israelites broke any of them back then

they had rituals of sin offerings so YHWH would forgive their sins


now we have repentance and confessions to Jesus Christ

who save souls from sins hells and satans


the point is to have a living relationship with God while we live in this world governed by Satan

[panopticon]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
i know it's not exactly what we've been thought in school for the last 300 years or so but why believe the establishment when you see the liars they are yes i believe the Bible is true and factual and mostly written or dictated by the Holy Spirit through the pens of men the Ten Commandments are for us to know what is right and wrong and when the Israelites broke any of them back then they had rituals of sin offerings so YHWH would forgive their sins now we have repentance and confessions to Jesus Christ who save souls from sins hells and satans the point is to have a living relationship with God while we live in this world governed by Satan.

G'day RedeZra,

Thank you for the response.
You forgot to answer this question:
What do you anticipate the afterlife to be like for those who dwell in Heaven with YHWH?

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[Centauro]

I believe that the world was a paradise once, and humans lived in a world without fear of death, I also believe that someone or something f^*^ up our DNA, the bible says it was Satan ( falling of man) , I think there is more to that story for sure. crap forgot why I put this on this thread, sorry if it don't belong ...hehehe


Roland el centauro

[Beren]

Posted by Centauro (here)
I believe that the world was a paradise once, and humans lived in a world without fear of death, I also believe that someone or something f^*^ up our DNA, the bible says it was Satan ( falling of man) , I think there is more to that story for sure. crap forgot why I put this on this thread, sorry if it don't belong ...hehehe


Roland el centauro

If you examine what is written in current Bible is that man was :
1. perfect in body and soul
2. had everlasting life
3. no sickness whatsoever ,physical or mental
4. ability to tune in to high frequencies and understand animal kingdom aswell as plant kingdom
5. ability to openly talk with Creator
6. on high level of conscience without realization of the body nakedness (it was perfect and not shameful to look upon)
7. was beyond good and evil for it didn`t exist in his and hers world for they were in state of bliss or oneness with all that is
.
.
.

All that is lost. Hence Christ`s arrival to return mankind to that first estate and even higher.
Really that`s it.
"Fallen ones" are among else WE.

P.S.
old testament is a chronology of how to return a man from deeply disturbing primitiveness into oneness with God.
All their deeds and sacrifices were NOT asked by God ,they were allowed for they desire to do that in their fallen understanding what would be appealing to God.
God allowed it but then after some time Christ came to say :"It`s ok now, stop that and grow up, leave primitiveness and grow in oneness and Love."

When you honestly and carefully look upon you will see a process of returning mankind to its former glory. It was bloody and dirty but is it better now?

We type on computers and eat steaks and drink French wines and our brothers and sisters die of malnutrition somewhere in this world...
More people are being killed daily by greed and sheer evil than then.

SO instead of cherry picking from Bible and accusing ,it`s better to look the whole picture in it. It`s a holy book,just as many are holy too for God used many ways to bring people back.

If you don`t understand it or never read it or got hurt by religions in the name of God - please don`t spit on it. God is not the one to blame for deeds of free will of church men. They kill and steal and rule over mankind in the name of God but can`t you see that FREE WILL is allowing them that?

We are allowing them that too.

How can we blame our Father for giving us the most magnificent gift of free will?
DO we blame him for making us in his image - Gods ourselves?

DO we not realize that we are creators in making?
Universes are waiting to be born from us , so let us grow up. Let us be Love ,just like our heavenly Creator is .

[RedeZra]

Posted by panopticon (here)
What do you anticipate the afterlife to be like for those who dwell in Heaven with YHWH?

i relate to God in the Name and Form of Jesus Christ who is Spirit


the earth is soon to go through a trial by fire which is the wrath of God and the end of an Age

those that make it to heaven will live on like spirits and see a new earth form and a new man and woman in another Age

and so it goes and we are alive with our Lord God in heaven

like the angels whom we are

[Centauro]

If you examine what is written in current Bible is that man was :
1. perfect in body and soul
2. had everlasting life
3. no sickness whatsoever ,physical or mental
4. ability to tune in to high frequencies and understand animal kingdom aswell as plant kingdom
5. ability to openly talk with Creator
6. on high level of conscience without realization of the body nakedness (it was perfect and not shameful to look upon)
7. was beyond good and evil for it didn`t exist in his and hers world for they were in state of bliss or oneness with all that is
.
.
.

All that is lost. Hence Christ`s arrival to return mankind to that first estate and even higher.
Really that`s it.
"Fallen ones" are among else WE.

P.S.
old testament is a chronology of how to return a man from deeply disturbing primitiveness into oneness with God.
All their deeds and sacrifices were NOT asked by God ,they were allowed for they desire to do that in their fallen understanding what would be appealing to God.
God allowed it but then after some time Christ came to say :"It`s ok now, stop that and grow up, leave primitiveness and grow in oneness and Love."

When you honestly and carefully look upon you will see a process of returning mankind to its former glory. It was bloody and dirty but is it better now?

We type on computers and eat steaks and drink French wines and our brothers and sisters die of malnutrition somewhere in this world...
More people are being killed daily by greed and sheer evil than then.

SO instead of cherry picking from Bible and accusing ,it`s better to look the whole picture in it. It`s a holy book,just as many are holy too for God used many ways to bring people back.

If you don`t understand it or never read it or got hurt by religions in the name of God - please don`t spit on it. God is not the one to blame for deeds of free will of church men. They kill and steal and rule over mankind in the name of God but can`t you see that FREE WILL is allowing them that?

We are allowing them that too.

How can we blame our Father for giving us the most magnificent gift of free will?
DO we blame him for making us in his image - Gods ourselves?

DO we not realize that we are creators in making?
Universes are waiting to be born from us , so let us grow up. Let us be Love ,just like our heavenly Creator is .

Dear Baren,

As always I completely agree with you and as always you make see things that I didn't see before. Pleas never stop. Your eloquence and the ability to see and to forward what you see is a gift that has value beyond anything. It is so clear to me why Christ came to earth... the logic behind that is impossible to deny, no matter how many arguments are made to deny its validity.

Again thank you for such inspiring words


Love much to all

Roland el Centauro

Please never stop

[Centauro]

i relate to God in the Name and Form of Jesus Christ who is Spirit
the earth is soon to go through a trial by fire which is the wrath of God and the end of an Age
those that make it to heaven will live on like spirits and see a new earth form and a new man and woman in another Age
and so it goes and we are alive with our Lord God in heaven
like the angels whom we are

Dear RedeZras,

Please forgive me, but I just can see the logic behind your words and statements. I Can't see God or Christ as a Gods of destruction and vengeance. They are creators and no destructors. That wrath that you talk about if it happens or whatever, is going to be not because punishment from god. I know, I know the bible talks about that just about in very other chapter, I don't buy for a second. The Bible has been manipulated so many times that it is almost impossible to take its words at face value. The only thing that is valid to me from this so called "Holy Book" is Christ message of Love, Kindness and Forgiveness to all. All the events that had happened or will happen here on earth are because of the choices we make or will make. Free will explains this with no other argument as for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.

I do however agree with you in that Satan ( whatever he is or whatever he represents) is what rules the world hence the logic behind of God's plan of redemption buy sending his personification in Christ to us

Roland el Centauro