Euro will collapse, 'Pig States' to bring EU down

[Etherios]

I am from Greece and it has taken me a while now to think anything good to say here but... we have been going down a path that is i think unique in all earth. As a scholar here in greece said this must be the first time in history that the ppl living in greece have consumed not only theirs but also all there grandchildrens economy. We have been living on credit that has gone that high that every child that is born owes 25k Euros.

The problem is that we cant react to this. Greeks are so blind and selfish atm that i believe we will start fighting among us, about who is to blame. After all these ppl are still siding with political parties and don't see what happened. I don't know if this is planed and if the hole oil scenarios are true but it looks like Greece has surrender to EU and the rest unconditionally. The news waste hours upon hours to explain what each little detail that someone said in EU means and no one talks about the future.

I truly believe this is a set up and i am sure our politician are part of it. Whats even worse is that ppl don't see and don't react. If this goes on like this i fear for the worst ... even fighting on the streets. Just so you understand how ignorant (or traitors) our leaders are .... they passed or are trying to pass in the parliament a new bill that will give them permission to buy new laptops .... this will cost a few mill Euros.

I am sorry this is a bit pesimistic but ... i think ill stop listening to the news or at least just listen 1 time a day to keep me informed.

[Luke]

Etherios, thank you very much for your input.
Unfortunately, I think your situation is not unique - there is a similar problem in every "developed" country. Only difference is Greece become singled out due long-time media campaign, and involvement with one New York company (GS) that is currently "in the crosshairs" . UK or Germany have similar or worse GDP ratios, but they have enough POLITICAL power to keep their debt valued as "investment" grade obligations, while Greece debt has "junk" status atm..

People reactions to all this are also not that different from one could expect in any European country - most of them do not know when govt. is taking money from, not to mention the scale of the debt per capita. This would end in violent rebellions sooner or later, but for all the wrong reasons, as it was before, really. It's same scheme that is played since French Revolution, and people are none the wiser, bulk of them at least. Media are spreading fear, as ordered.

On a sidenote: sources here say all decision by German parliament would be delayed till may the 9th, that is day after elections in Westphalia. If they say "yes" then there is a protest waiting to be dealt with in Constitutional Court (made by group of Professors )
EDIT: Zerohedge: "It's over - the excess debt/GDP terrorists have won"

[Swanny]

Posted by Panta rhei (here)
I agree but I think this will only postpone the inevitable, I don't think they will be able to pay for all of the PIGS states.

They can just print more money

[bashi]

"Germany's largest opposition party said it would move quickly to approve German participation, while European Union Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn said the European Union should complete talks "within days”. However, Rehn said he still could not provide details of the deal, which he said were "conditional on fiscal consolidation."


Mr. Rehns speech he emphasis on “a multi annual program” has helped provide comfort to markets amid fears that the initial plan for a 45 billion euro package would only help meet Greece's borrowing needs through the current year. IMF officials have reportedly indicated the package could total between €100 billion to €120 billion."

Source: http://www.stockmarketsreview.com/fo...20100430_5780/

I seems that i am winning the bet. What do you say SaiCO?



.

[Luke]

All current data is in your favour, Bashi.

Still "talk" is not signed agreement

[K626]

Posted by Etherios (here)
I am from Greece and it has taken me a while now to think anything good to say here but... we have been going down a path that is i think unique in all earth. As a scholar here in greece said this must be the first time in history that the ppl living in greece have consumed not only theirs but also all there grandchildrens economy. We have been living on credit that has gone that high that every child that is born owes 25k Euros.

The problem is that we cant react to this. Greeks are so blind and selfish atm that i believe we will start fighting among us, about who is to blame. After all these ppl are still siding with political parties and don't see what happened. I don't know if this is planed and if the hole oil scenarios are true but it looks like Greece has surrender to EU and the rest unconditionally. The news waste hours upon hours to explain what each little detail that someone said in EU means and no one talks about the future.

I truly believe this is a set up and i am sure our politician are part of it. Whats even worse is that ppl don't see and don't react. If this goes on like this i fear for the worst ... even fighting on the streets. Just so you understand how ignorant (or traitors) our leaders are .... they passed or are trying to pass in the parliament a new bill that will give them permission to buy new laptops .... this will cost a few mill Euros.

I am sorry this is a bit pesimistic but ... i think ill stop listening to the news or at least just listen 1 time a day to keep me informed.

Without wishing to single the Greeks out, but just looking at things like pensions and corruption in Greece it looks to me like you guys have been living in some kind of dreamland and this is the wake up call. Good luck.

Peace

K

[stardustaquarion]

Posted by Swanny (here)
They can just print more money

Apparently they can't because the ECB (European Central Bank). Of course the ECB can but that will not be a decision Greece can make

[Etherios]

Posted by K626 (here)
Without wishing to single the Greeks out, but just looking at things like pensions and corruption in Greece it looks to me like you guys have been living in some kind of dreamland and this is the wake up call. Good luck.

Peace

K

well just see these figures. total pop less than 10 million. total gov employes almost 1 million.... thats 1/10 workers here are employed by the goverment. in other EU countries they have 10 times less than us and a few times more total pop.

i wont try to make excuses... we get what we deserve .... its just sad.

[K626]

Posted by Etherios (here)
well just see these figures. total pop less than 10 million. total gov employes almost 1 million.... thats 1/10 workers here are employed by the goverment. in other EU countries they have 10 times less than us and a few times more total pop.

i wont try to make excuses... we get what we deserve .... its just sad.

Getting kicked out of the EU might have been a blessing in disguise.
Hope things work out for you.

Peace

k

[Etherios]

There are some scenarios coming out from ppl here in Greece that look behind the lines.

1st they are trying to force a split of the Aegean sea between Greece and Turkey, ignoring the islands that have Greeks living on them ....

2nd There is a mass media depression tactics ... we are doomed we are dieing we wont survive etc.

3rd They are starting to whisper about selling out the oil deposits, the uranium/gold etc deposits of Greece to "savior" businessmen for very little so Greece can be saved.

So i want to ask all of you... is there anything we (the ppl) can do to stop all these? There is no way the terrified parents/workers of Greece to even try to see behind all this terror... they are listening to the media talking about how their lives will be lost ... everyday, all the day. Is there a way out? i wonder....

[K626]

Posted by Etherios (here)
There are some scenarios coming out from ppl here in Greece that look behind the lines.

1st they are trying to force a split of the Aegean sea between Greece and Turkey, ignoring the islands that have Greeks living on them ....

2nd There is a mass media depression tactics ... we are doomed we are dieing we wont survive etc.

3rd They are starting to whisper about selling out the oil deposits, the uranium/gold etc deposits of Greece to "savior" businessmen for very little so Greece can be saved.

So i want to ask all of you... is there anything we (the ppl) can do to stop all these? There is no way the terrified parents/workers of Greece to even try to see behind all this terror... they are listening to the media talking about how their lives will be lost ... everyday, all the day. Is there a way out? i wonder....

The problem in these very complex scenarios is gathering the people around a stable solution to act in a more direct rather than haphazard manner. Although this might be an oppurtunity to get some kind of real poeples movement going, using the circumstances as an energising force rather than a depressing force. It's always a good idea to take over a radio or tv station and put out 'alternative' information to the masses in Greece, that is where i would start....

Good luck

K

[Swami]

Athens Burning........

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1X6Vkppq9EQ

Three people burned to death in a bank......

[bashi]

The greek situation accelerated after the downgrading by the rating agencies.

Now the next country seems to be Portugal:

http://www.fxstreet.com/news/forex-n...8-1cc07e97afe7

.

[Etherios]

Yes not only 3 tho ... 1 of the ppl was a pregnant female ... sad ....

[Martin]

Yes, it really is sad.

But what happens now? I find it really unlikely that the public unrest and the demonstrations will stop in the future. Once again the banks will get their bailout right out of the pockets of the people. Now they are talking of new bankrupt arrangments concerning such states as Greece, but they wouldn't consider such things during the time of the first major bailouts of the banks. Instead of getting rid of all the financial waste they decided to keep it. Just insane. And you could really think that Greece is the first state to ever go bankrupt. The Euro really was doomed to go down this road right from the start. We even had a constitutional challenge against the Euro in 1998 I think and so we have one now against the "Greece-Bailout". Normally one would think it will be an easy decission for the constitutional court here in Germany, but for now I do not think so. Yes, the planed-half-done Greece-Bailout is against EU-law, but nobody seems to care. Once again the people here react on fear (of a financial meltdown) and even out of solidarity with the Greece people. Its all so messed up.

From my feelings I would say that they are in dire need of some major distraction, but we will see.


have a nice one
Martin

[Etherios]

The plan it seems to be to push Greece out of the EU and then Portogal or spain thus making the EU delete it self (implode?) An economic analyst for bbc said that Goldman Sacks guided the toxic bonds and dumped them in greek economy ... and they will keep dumping more there.

Its a plan... we are being pushed to react and i dont really know where we will head. Btw the ppl responsible for the atk wasnt with the ppl that were demostrating against the goverment. The last few years we have a "group" of ppl that hide their faces and do these kind of things everytime something is happening in greece. NOONE has ever being caught ... i really feel they are agents, either goverment or outside the country.

things will really get messy from now on... wish us luck everyone we will needed it.


p.s. i am really sorry for my bad english ...

[Martin]

Personally I do not think that Greece will be pushed out of the Euro. Because basically it would be probably the best thing to do for Greece. Sure, the concerned banks would need to withdraw from their financial interests, but that is what usually happens if someone goes bankrupt or is it not? I mean only Greece itself is able to leave the Euro and as far as your government is concerned I do not see that this is going to happen. They surely cannot put down the demonstrations by force and they most likely will not cut down the EU because they will need it in the future. But it is easy for me to talk about that. I wish you and all your people the very best and hope you all will be able to life in easier times soon.

Martin

[Etherios]

Thanx martin but soon ... isnt that close... they talk about 10-20 years minimum to get off this program and maybe 10 more years to start having a positive economy... thats 30+ years to pay off the bankers that stole us...

[Martin]

Well the current approach to solve the Greece problem is not a solution at all and I think you should not concern yourself with their estimation of ten to twenty years. Its probably all about lowering the standard of living and your land is sadly only the first to walk this road in sort of a "new dimension". Generally the standard of living is descending over the last decades in almost all "industrialized western countries. Maybe they are just trying to see how far they can push it for now. As sad as this is. I mean all the money that is prepared to "go to Greece" will never help a single Greek. Its going out and right to the banks, so that Greece itself will be allowed by them to make more dept/ money. I personally do not think that we will have this kind of system in 15 to 20 years, but who knows.

all my best
Martin

[stardustaquarion]

They have done the same to countries in South America over and over until they wised up and started dealing with the Chinese which is why the crisis has not hitted South America as baddly as before.