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Thread: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Animalspirits, you mention the importance of the shaman not acting from their ego. But then you go on to imply, and certainly many readers will infer from your posts, that you are a better shaman than any other in this thread because you don't charge for it, you've been doing it since birth and that you are 71, and thus older. And you can't see any ego in that?

    If I see a shaman, no matter how rookie they are in their path, making an effort to explain to others who may not have heard about it, what it is and how it works, I would only join in if it was to support them. Even if I thought they had some stuff wrong, I'd find a way to correct it without trying to make myself look better than them. I hope I would do that anyway.

    I believe that is it pure ego to try to make yourself look superior by pushing down the efforts of others, which is exactly the sort of pyramid power raiding that our society is built on. Most of my work is about helping people to reclaim their power, and show them that are better and more holistic ways of becoming empowered than by stealing it from others, so I'm very aware when I see it in action.
    Last edited by Ishtar; 11th November 2011 at 15:20.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    [QUOTE=animalspirits;353390][QUOTE=Ishtar;353283][QUOTE=animalspirits;353269]
    Also, I do not believe in the bloodline theory of "special" people holding more ability to do this work.

    But somehow by your own admission there are people who have gifts and some who don't. It's a gift. Your gift? So what is the difference? People who have a bloodline that carries a specifiic expression of retaining certain knowledge is different than a gifted person ....how? Explain the intrinsic difference to me.

    It is always done for the benefit of others. It is a life of service to others without any manner of fame or wealth playing a factor in the practice. The desire to this comes from the Human mind/ego.

    Which can quickly turn into yet another slave mentatlity of servitiude if we are not careful about the conditions ones is placing on what we do. If the world is made a better place by doing this sort of thing, my world is made a better place by default. I can't always get away from how it benefits me nor would I try to. It happens by default. If one is derving satisfaction from doing this they are in fact benefiting from it. If one doesn't derive satisfaction from it why are they doing it?

    I believe our earliest ancestors could all pretty much do it, but for one reason or another, the technique has been forgotten in the West.


    Yes ...in part one of those techniques of retrieving ANCIENT information from their DNA has been put down as irrelevant But because its self preserving it doesn't matter only to those who bother to intiate it. The mere act of talking about it can intiate that sort of activation regardless of what anyone 'thinks' or believes. Beliefs are conditions.

    DNA carries information. Our ancients knew a lot about DNA and that's its basic function, to carry information....so theres a certain information about human origins contained in bloodlines . The ability to retrieve information from one's DNA is alternately glorified and then denied...lol. it's not a gift, eveyrone has DNA . Fortunately one arrives at the point where their higher expression exerts influence on the phsyical and the DNA starts burping things up regardless of what anyone believes.

    I never have tried to make a living doing this work.. It is a gift. I don't believe in charging people for something that is a gift.

    Of course, there are those that believe that if energy is exchanged then they have to either pay or give you a gift.

    Perhaps....Because of the deeply wounded psyche they may feel that is the only thing they can give in return. There are people who are so invalidated they want to do whatever it is they can, no matter how small to show they can contribute something. Who are we to judge that? Are we judging them...or ourselves.

    They want to contribute something in some small way and feel they are doing something and we judge it .We are then attaching more meaning to money and even diminishing further the people who are attempting to offer us somethign because they percieve that is the only thing they have to give. Until we have a chance to show them otherwise. This is what we are subtly establishing here: Your money and by assocation , you, is so inferior in comparison to my Gift. This is understanding the psyche of the people we are working with. We need to understand how people wrap up their self identity and value in money. And be careful with that knowledge. Because that is their psyche we are working in.

    People are not dumb but they are conditioned. They view people who undervalue themselves and their alleged gifts as having the same problem as them. Lack of self value. I've had lots of people state to me. "You must not be very good ,you don't charge very much." Then...they can pay me whatever they want. Let them have the power to assign a value to it. There's always something to be learned no matter how 'gifted' we are and one of the the thiings we learn most is how people percieve themselves via money.


    It is like they feel you are taking their energy.

    yes sometimes expressed as victims. Someone is always stealing their power. Giving one's power away is a choice.

    The shaman conned by the victim. Victims are notoriously hard to work with.They come to your doorstep so you will be another abuser, taking from them. And in our guilt mechanisms we allow them to make us their abuser and they re-establish they are a victim. Not really doing anyone any favors including ourselves. In fact after awhile after not paying you will start making them feel bad by not accepting payment and again you become the abuser.

    Not realizing this was a choice they intiated. I also have to smile at those who establish right off the fact they can't pay...what they are stating is....I have no self value. Law of attaction again. People with certain sorts of self value issues typically express this by having no money..

    They are unwilling to place even a tiny bit of value , even in a monetary sense, on themselves because they are a victim of thier own lack of self value. And we encourage that. They are also are notorious for not doing their work because they get free attention that they'd otherwise --invest in themselves . Granted I think it would be sad for me to charge someone just to pay attention to them that really should be free. But we encourage all these conditions none the less. They don't need attention, the whole victim mechanism ensures they get attention, they need to know who they are before all these artificial constructs are intiated. We risk constructing more by agreeement, by contract.

    They don't want to do their work they want attention to re-establish the fact they are victims. Free means it has no value to them so they are not investing in themselves. Essentially they are informing me they want me to view them as a victim and I won't go there. This is their subconscious expressions. I don't care how much they pay me or don't pay me, I'm not re-establishing that to them. And they will get angry at me for it but I won't re-establish slavery or victimhood for any reason or any amount of money. it is very easy to tell the difference between a person who has fallen on hard times and proffesional victim.

    Some proffessional victims want to pay a LOT though because they feel it means they 've paid you off so you shouldn't expect them to do their work . A sort of leverage. Emotional extortion. They are tempting you to invalidate yourself. ...lol. They want you to tell them what they want to hear; not what they should know. They wnat something else to believe about themselves and who better than a person who has a lot of beliefs to dole out.

    When one realizes they are in victim mode and are willing to work that out they realize that no one can take their energy. Therefore don't mind paying. They begin to know what value and how its tied up in money really means or is meaningless. They realize they have choices. Part of this shamanic work is realizing what is going on in a person's psyche. Its easy to see when someone is establishing themselves as a victim right from the start. We then help them re-entrench and re-establish these roles?.

    It's a GIFT? That's not a assignment of special? If everyone is gifted than I suppose its no longer a gift. 'I'm gifted' means I'm special. Rather than just something that is expressing itself naturally when our conditions are removed. What is the gift? The ability? Everyone has abiltiies, not everyone has the wherewithall to manage those abilities.

    Gift is a fawtly tranlation of I AM PRESENT. I AM in the present. NOT A PRESENT....lol. It's our PRESENTce. Non 'gifted' people who are very present are just as likely to heal in an unconscious spontaneous way as they are not effected with these conditions that seem to come part and parcel in the medicine world. Words create contracts . Medicine people should know this , no? Isn't that what we are doing is re-negotiating contracts. . We don't realize that using gifted establishes a condition right off the bat so their ego mind can create a polarizing opposite conditon. Ungifted.We should know these things because these conditions are present in the people we are working with. How people are going to RESPOND is in part our RESPONS-ability, no?

    Concerning the law of attraction it would pecuilar if we were gifted and then denied a gift energy given to us...energy attracts like energy. Why? Is the LOA faulty or are our reasonings faulty? Why we does who extoll the virtues of natural law then deny those laws when they begin to express themselves.

    The only gift we have to give is the gift of each other's PRESENT-ce. Some people are so conditioned they cannot be fully Present. There's a greater expression to one's presence if there's not all these conditions put on them. Healers are supposed to show how to remove conditions not impose more by their 'beliefs'.

    Service to others quickly becomes servitude to others , martyr complex. If I'm truly not a slave I'm not going to fall into those servitiude roles so easily. Can a slave teach another to be free?

    Listening to the input of those I'm working with one has to determine if you are going to make them inferior by refusing payment what they percieve is the only gift they can givet. That is when THEY become the teacher. Encouraging those who are conditoned to believe they are poor and can't pay keeps them from investing in themselves, showing themselves they are worth something . I have found that when I am well supported I needn't expect payment. I have found that working for others takes away the energy I can invest in others. They are not getting one hundred percent from me regardless if they are paying me or not.

    I have found all sorts of different circumstances in these matters until I just learned to let it BE and stop judging myself. I don't care what people charge I do care very much about imposing more conditions in an already over conditioned world.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Quote Posted by Ishtar (here)
    Hi Fred. To answer your question, I remember my last lifetime as a priestess of Ishtar, which is why I was given that name by my spirit guides on my initiation. So some of the things I talk about come from those remembered experiences, the understanding then about the nature and function of the Annunaki being one of them. From those experiences, whenever I read the Enuma Elish or the Descent of Inanna, or any of the Sumerian/Babylonian texts, I'm reminded of what I already know.

    I know others have different ideas about Annunaki. I have no wish to quarrel with them, only to talk from own experience. It is my experience that a new back story is being created for humanity now that Christianity has failed as a control measure, and it is one in which the Annunaki are being discredited. I don't believe these stories myself.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Yes, Ulli, I have heard of Rollo. He was Archdruid of Ynys Witrin (Glastonbury) before I got here. Now the Archdruid is Drew Miles who is very good in that role.

    You are correct , i have had meetings with Annunaki as well. They are sad about how they are being portrayed by our media. I can vouch that they are not against us indeed they help us.




    N

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    And how are the Annunaki helping us?

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    United States Avalon Member animalspirits's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Quote Posted by Ishtar (here)
    Animalspirits, you mention the importance of the shaman not acting from their ego. But then you go on to imply, and certainly many readers will infer from your posts, that you are a better shaman than any other in this thread because you don't charge for it, you've been doing it since birth and that you are 71, and thus older. And you can't see any ego in that?

    If I see a shaman, no matter how rookie they are in their path, making an effort to explain to others who may not have heard about it, what it is and how it works, I would only join in if it was to support them. Even if I thought they had some stuff wrong, I'd find a way to correct it without trying to make myself look better than them. I hope I would do that anyway.

    I believe that is it pure ego to try to make yourself look superior by pushing down the efforts of others, which is exactly the sort of pyramid power raiding that our society is built on. Most of my work is about helping people to reclaim their power, and show them that are better and more holistic ways of becoming empowered than by stealing it from others, so I'm very aware when I see it in action.
    Boy, that post struck a nerve! LOL. If you felt that I was posting what I posted out of ego, then you failed to understand that I was simply giving my own history with respect to this...as well as my views (which I do know is shared by many). I write concisely and my posts tend to not be long. Some people have a problem with that.

    As I read your post, ego came screaming out at me as well. You don't seem to want anyone to state anything different from what you are doing. IMO, your post tried to do exactly to me what you were claiming I was doing...dis-empower me. Hon, that has been tried by people far more powerful than you without success.

    I don't remember even discussing how I teach anything, so it would seem that drawing conclusions about that is coming from somewhere other than me.

    I have taken a lot of flack from those that practice and charge for their healing work because I do not.

    If you somehow felt dis-empowered by my posts, that was not my intention. My intention was to disagree with you about some of what you posted. I would assume that any healer would have thick enough skin to discuss differences in a more positive manner, but I guess that was too much to expect.

    You will continue to do it your way and I will continue to do it my way...which is fine by me. I don't have a Horse in this race.
    Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred.

    ~Yotee Coyote

    www.ascendingabovevibration.org

    www.animalspirits.com

    http://animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com/

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    9eagle9, thank you so much for your last post but one. It was such a patient and reasoned explanation of all the ramifications around the management of power in our dealing with clients. It's something I spent more than a year in training in. I was very shocked at first about how much power I had stolen from others, and how I'd allowed others to steal power from me. It was second nature. Nobody had ever suggested any other way of behaving, and I learned this kind of horse trading in my family, as a child, along with the sibling rivalry. I was shocked as I began to realise how much I had given my power away, at times. I had literally handed it to people and then wondered why my relationships with them then went wrong. When I first started healing, about 30 years ago, I always used to give my friends free healing, and in every single case, after the free healing, the relationship went wrong. I felt that they started to resent me in some way and then they would avoid me.

    I think it is very important for shamans to understand how to manage their power, not least so that we can teach others how to do it, if required. I have written a blog post on this subject called Eating People Is Wrong, and I'd like to share it here, if I may?

    Eating People Is Wrong

    My parents used to have this book: Eating People Is Wrong. I never read it, but nowadays I’m wondering if I should. People talk about vampiric magic, but you don’t have to be the victim of a red-in-tooth-’n-claw Dracula to get your power sucked dry – and either it’s getting worse or maybe I’m just noticing it more, just like smokers suddenly stink when you’ve given up cigarettes.

    Just because blood-sucking vampires appear in myths and movies, it doesn’t mean that they are solely mythological or fictional creatures. Hollywood vampires suck on human blood in order to survive. Blood has long been synonymous with life force, going back tens of thousands of years and represented by hematite or red ochre in shamanic rituals. The archetypal vampire, Dracula, originated from Southeast Europe, but his was not the first vampire story. The ancient Mesopotamians, Hebrews and Romans had tales of demons and spirits that would drink blood and feast on flesh. So even they knew that eating people was wrong.

    I know many magicians — some real and others, well … I don’t want to be unkind but it’s as if they’ve swallowed Harry Potter whole. These Hogwarts wannabees don’t have any real power at all. The spirits don’t communicate with them and so they don’t get any information or guidance about what to do. So they’re reduced to stealing power from others. However, they are only doing consciously what all of us have been taught to do unconsciously from the cradle. We imbibed these vampiric power plays with our mother’s milk, and as we grew, we unconconsciously adopted behavioural techniques — mainly in our interactions with our siblings but also with our parents as role models — which amounted to nothing more than stealing each others’ power.

    The shaman in training has to first confront this Hammer horror — the realisation that they’ve been born into Planet Vampire and brought up and encouraged to throw out energetic streamers and suckers to feed on others, and that everyone they know is some kind of succubus, even their own mother — and then they have to work out how to transcend the vampiric realm in order to be able to own and stand in their own power.



    Metaphors for overcoming this particular daemon and the subsequent attendant rebirth of the spiritual adept are found in all mythologies, and usually end with the hero tackling the dragon/serpent and then bruising its head with his heel.



    You won’t get any shamanic or real magical power until you overcome this dragon. This is because, it is my experience that the spirits are not going to give anyone any power if it’s just going to drain out of them, like water out of colander. You have to build a container to hold it and this requires, not least, living in truth and honouring others’ boundaries. They also want you to start working with some real, clean, unadulterated rocket fuel and not some dirty old lawnmower petrol you siphoned off from someone else. Or crisp, newly-minted notes is another good analogy. Because just like any paper currency, the more power is traded and passed around, the more worn and filthy and dog-eared it becomes, until eventually it disintegrates altogether and goes back to the Earth.

    Learning to stand protected and whole in your own power is more than about guarding yourself with all the million-and-one methods of psychic protection available to the modern-day magical practitioner — from the Lesser Banishing ritual and the four pillars, to the blue translucent egg and the fiery pentagram to mention just a few. That’s because it’s no good using your intention to magically construct one of these energetic devices before setting off down the road if the first thing you’re then going to do is hand over your decision-making ability to the next person you meet at the bus stop just because they’ve got a bigger hat.

    Even if they’re your boss, you have to learn to manage your power around them, and you will eventually get quite skillful in these sorts of situations.

    But it’s best to start off small, at first. Don’t go straight for the might of the military-industrial juggernaut. Parity begins at home. Begin with your partner and your immediate friends and then watch as your whole life starts to transform. As you change the microcosm, the macrocosm will very often follow suit.

    Of course, not allowing others to steal your power may make you quite unpopular at times. There are all sorts of unwritten contracts between vampires, and refusing to offer up the jugular often finds you in breach of one of them. Even not taking someone’s power when it’s being offered you willingly can cause the offerer to feel hurt or confused by your behaviour, although they don’t know why. They only know that this coping mechanism has always worked for them in the past, and so they don’t understand why it’s not working on you now. However, they don’t realise that the issue between you is about power — they just know that they feel uncomfortable around you — and so they decide they don’t like you for some other spurious reason, like your nose is too big.



    There are various techniques and exercises which you can use to replenish your own power reserves without having to resort to plundering the power of others. One of these entails drawing energy up from our mother the Earth, who is more than happy to supply us with power and also to take away our empties. There is one exercise I teach called The Rising Light Below. Another is called Diving Through the Moon Pool and uses the Moon card of the Tarot. I teach both these techniques to my clients, either in person or via Skype. So do contact me if you’d like to learn more.

    The matter of power — who owns it, who keeps it, who’s giving it away — is key to the shamanic practitioner, who knows that the source of most dis-ease is lack of power. And in teaching my clients how to reclaim their power, they become re-empowered and well again very quickly and then they are on their way. I have very few repeat appointments with people because they don’t need them. I can solve their problem in just one or two sessions. Spiritual healers who have you coming back every six weeks for “top-ups” are just creating a dependency on you so that they can continue to steal your power, in the form of your time and money. And by the way, watch out for all those big gorilla hugs – sometimes the vampire … er sorry, healer offering the huge hug needs it more than you do. And once they’ve wrapped their energy body around yours, they will suck till you’re dry.



    Sure, they may not realise they’re stealing your power. But that doesn’t help you, does it, when you’re left feeling like a limp used condom on the morning after the night before?

    I’ve just looked up Eating People is Wrong on Amazon. It turns out to be Malcolm Bradbury’s first novel, about university life, and here’s a telling quote from it.

    “Moreover, all his life, Treece had been doing things that he did not exactly want to do, journeying off on holidays he had no intention of taking, watching plays he did not wish to see, playing sports he detested, simply because someone had gone to the trouble to persuade him, simply because he felt they cared, simply…well, simply because he could not say no. He always thought what a hard time of it he would have had if he had been a woman; he would have been pregnant all the time.”

    I can’t think of a better description of someone who’s given away all their power.

    If you think this sounds a little like you, or how you’ve been feeling lately, don’t worry. A shaman can help you get your power back. It’s one of the things we do.

    Last edited by Ishtar; 11th November 2011 at 21:44.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    [QUOTE=9eagle9;353463][QUOTE=animalspirits;353390][QUOTE=Ishtar;353283]
    Quote Posted by animalspirits (here)
    Also, I do not believe in the bloodline theory of "special" people holding more ability to do this work.

    But somehow by your own admission there are people who have gifts and some who don't. It's a gift. Your gift? So what is the difference? People who have a bloodline that carries a specifiic expression of retaining certain knowledge is different than a gifted person ....how? Explain the intrinsic difference to me.

    It is always done for the benefit of others. It is a life of service to others without any manner of fame or wealth playing a factor in the practice. The desire to this comes from the Human mind/ego.

    Which can quickly turn into yet another slave mentatlity of servitiude if we are not careful about the conditions ones is placing on what we do. If the world is made a better place by doing this sort of thing, my world is made a better place by default. I can't always get away from how it benefits me nor would I try to. It happens by default. If one is derving satisfaction from doing this they are in fact benefiting from it. If one doesn't derive satisfaction from it why are they doing it?

    I believe our earliest ancestors could all pretty much do it, but for one reason or another, the technique has been forgotten in the West.


    Yes ...in part one of those techniques of retrieving ANCIENT information from their DNA has been put down as irrelevant But because its self preserving it doesn't matter only to those who bother to intiate it. The mere act of talking about it can intiate that sort of activation regardless of what anyone 'thinks' or believes. Beliefs are conditions.

    DNA carries information. Our ancients knew a lot about DNA and that's its basic function, to carry information....so theres a certain information about human origins contained in bloodlines . The ability to retrieve information from one's DNA is alternately glorified and then denied...lol. it's not a gift, eveyrone has DNA . Fortunately one arrives at the point where their higher expression exerts influence on the phsyical and the DNA starts burping things up regardless of what anyone believes.

    I never have tried to make a living doing this work.. It is a gift. I don't believe in charging people for something that is a gift.

    Of course, there are those that believe that if energy is exchanged then they have to either pay or give you a gift.

    Perhaps....Because of the deeply wounded psyche they may feel that is the only thing they can give in return. There are people who are so invalidated they want to do whatever it is they can, no matter how small to show they can contribute something. Who are we to judge that? Are we judging them...or ourselves.

    They want to contribute something in some small way and feel they are doing something and we judge it .We are then attaching more meaning to money and even diminishing further the people who are attempting to offer us somethign because they percieve that is the only thing they have to give. Until we have a chance to show them otherwise. This is what we are subtly establishing here: Your money and by assocation , you, is so inferior in comparison to my Gift. This is understanding the psyche of the people we are working with. We need to understand how people wrap up their self identity and value in money. And be careful with that knowledge. Because that is their psyche we are working in.

    People are not dumb but they are conditioned. They view people who undervalue themselves and their alleged gifts as having the same problem as them. Lack of self value. I've had lots of people state to me. "You must not be very good ,you don't charge very much." Then...they can pay me whatever they want. Let them have the power to assign a value to it. There's always something to be learned no matter how 'gifted' we are and one of the the thiings we learn most is how people percieve themselves via money.


    It is like they feel you are taking their energy.

    yes sometimes expressed as victims. Someone is always stealing their power. Giving one's power away is a choice.

    The shaman conned by the victim. Victims are notoriously hard to work with.They come to your doorstep so you will be another abuser, taking from them. And in our guilt mechanisms we allow them to make us their abuser and they re-establish they are a victim. Not really doing anyone any favors including ourselves. In fact after awhile after not paying you will start making them feel bad by not accepting payment and again you become the abuser.

    Not realizing this was a choice they intiated. I also have to smile at those who establish right off the fact they can't pay...what they are stating is....I have no self value. Law of attaction again. People with certain sorts of self value issues typically express this by having no money..

    They are unwilling to place even a tiny bit of value , even in a monetary sense, on themselves because they are a victim of thier own lack of self value. And we encourage that. They are also are notorious for not doing their work because they get free attention that they'd otherwise --invest in themselves . Granted I think it would be sad for me to charge someone just to pay attention to them that really should be free. But we encourage all these conditions none the less. They don't need attention, the whole victim mechanism ensures they get attention, they need to know who they are before all these artificial constructs are intiated. We risk constructing more by agreeement, by contract.

    They don't want to do their work they want attention to re-establish the fact they are victims. Free means it has no value to them so they are not investing in themselves. Essentially they are informing me they want me to view them as a victim and I won't go there. This is their subconscious expressions. I don't care how much they pay me or don't pay me, I'm not re-establishing that to them. And they will get angry at me for it but I won't re-establish slavery or victimhood for any reason or any amount of money. it is very easy to tell the difference between a person who has fallen on hard times and proffesional victim.

    Some proffessional victims want to pay a LOT though because they feel it means they 've paid you off so you shouldn't expect them to do their work . A sort of leverage. Emotional extortion. They are tempting you to invalidate yourself. ...lol. They want you to tell them what they want to hear; not what they should know. They wnat something else to believe about themselves and who better than a person who has a lot of beliefs to dole out.

    When one realizes they are in victim mode and are willing to work that out they realize that no one can take their energy. Therefore don't mind paying. They begin to know what value and how its tied up in money really means or is meaningless. They realize they have choices. Part of this shamanic work is realizing what is going on in a person's psyche. Its easy to see when someone is establishing themselves as a victim right from the start. We then help them re-entrench and re-establish these roles?.

    It's a GIFT? That's not a assignment of special? If everyone is gifted than I suppose its no longer a gift. 'I'm gifted' means I'm special. Rather than just something that is expressing itself naturally when our conditions are removed. What is the gift? The ability? Everyone has abiltiies, not everyone has the wherewithall to manage those abilities.

    Gift is a fawtly tranlation of I AM PRESENT. I AM in the present. NOT A PRESENT....lol. It's our PRESENTce. Non 'gifted' people who are very present are just as likely to heal in an unconscious spontaneous way as they are not effected with these conditions that seem to come part and parcel in the medicine world. Words create contracts . Medicine people should know this , no? Isn't that what we are doing is re-negotiating contracts. . We don't realize that using gifted establishes a condition right off the bat so their ego mind can create a polarizing opposite conditon. Ungifted.We should know these things because these conditions are present in the people we are working with. How people are going to RESPOND is in part our RESPONS-ability, no?

    Concerning the law of attraction it would pecuilar if we were gifted and then denied a gift energy given to us...energy attracts like energy. Why? Is the LOA faulty or are our reasonings faulty? Why we does who extoll the virtues of natural law then deny those laws when they begin to express themselves.

    The only gift we have to give is the gift of each other's PRESENT-ce. Some people are so conditioned they cannot be fully Present. There's a greater expression to one's presence if there's not all these conditions put on them. Healers are supposed to show how to remove conditions not impose more by their 'beliefs'.

    Service to others quickly becomes servitude to others , martyr complex. If I'm truly not a slave I'm not going to fall into those servitiude roles so easily. Can a slave teach another to be free?

    Listening to the input of those I'm working with one has to determine if you are going to make them inferior by refusing payment what they percieve is the only gift they can givet. That is when THEY become the teacher. Encouraging those who are conditoned to believe they are poor and can't pay keeps them from investing in themselves, showing themselves they are worth something . I have found that when I am well supported I needn't expect payment. I have found that working for others takes away the energy I can invest in others. They are not getting one hundred percent from me regardless if they are paying me or not.

    I have found all sorts of different circumstances in these matters until I just learned to let it BE and stop judging myself. I don't care what people charge I do care very much about imposing more conditions in an already over conditioned world.
    Good Lord! That was confusing.

    Souls do not have DNA and do not follow bloodlines. They don't need to as they are beyond that.

    How helping others can be turned in a "slave mentality" is beyond me. I just don't even understand that.

    What I am about is trying to assist Humans to recognize and get out of the boxes that have them trapped. IMO, too much time is spent looking backward and not enough looking forward. Perhaps the reason I do not look to the past is because I have dropped all that as baggage I no longer need. My soul contains the knowledge I need for my own soul path.

    Humans over think the spiritual. They get trapped by their mind/egos into boxes that they never escape from. The time has come to get out of those boxes and get ready for the ascension...and we do not have much time in order to do this.

    Animals, Plants, Stones...everything but Humans are far ahead of us in this respect. We prefer to stay trapped in our minds worrying about things that just are not important to ascension.
    Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    I'm sorry you feel that way, AnimalSpirits. This is not my thread, even though I started it, and I appreciate that all threads have a life of their own and have a habit of wandering around all over the place. But I will say that it was my intention here to help others who hadn't heard about shamanism, shamanic healing and shamanic techniques to learn more about them, and to see how shamanism could help them in their lives, and it will be a shame if it descends into one where shamans are telling each other what to do and how to operate in their practice, which, in my view, is how religions start, when one person thinks they know better than another about how things should be done.

    The only criteria, as far as the person looking for help is concerned is described in the opening post: "Can this person, the shaman, help me by journeying into the Three Worlds and contacting the spirits and gain from them guidance, healing and information to help me or my community."

    After that, how long the shaman has been able to do that, whether they're in a bloodline of shamans or not, whether they've done it from birth and whether they charge for it or not are all secondary consideration and of minimal interest to the person who's just trying to figure out from this thread how shamanism and shamanic healing can help them.

    You may not have realised it, but you did announce yourself into this thread by criticising how the other shamans here ran their practices. It was irrelevant to the discussions, in my opinion, and I wouldn't have mentioned anything about egoism if you hadn't made such a point about the importance of being egoless.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Quote Posted by Ishtar (here)
    I'm sorry you feel that way, AnimalSpirits. This is not my thread, even though I started it, and I appreciate that all threads have a life of their own and have a habit of wandering around all over the place. But I will say that it was my intention here to help others who hadn't heard about shamanism, shamanic healing and shamanic techniques to learn more about them, and to see how shamanism could help them in their lives, and it will be a shame if it descends into one where shamans are telling each other what to do and how to operate in their practice, which, in my view, is how religions start, when one person thinks they know better than another about how things should be done.

    The only criteria, as far as the person looking for help is concerned is described in the opening post: "Can this person, the shaman, help me by journeying into the Three Worlds and contacting the spirits and gain from them guidance, healing and information to help me or my community."

    After that, how long the shaman has been able to do that, whether they're in a bloodline of shamans or not, whether they've done it from birth and whether they charge for it or not are all secondary consideration and of minimal interest to the person who's just trying to figure out from this thread how shamanism and shamanic healing can help them.

    You may not have realised it, but you did announce yourself into this thread by criticising how the other shamans here ran their practices. It was irrelevant to the discussions, in my opinion, and I wouldn't have mentioned anything about egoism if you hadn't made such a point about the importance of being egoless.
    I didn't announce anything. I simply posted a post. Following that line of reasoning, you have certainly announced a whole bunch of stuff in this thread as well...far more than I have. What makes what you write more correct than what I write? Nothing as far as I can tell.

    If stating that one differs on how someone else does things is criticizing, then no one would learn the differences involved in the practice of shamanism which I find wrong. You may not have realized how that sounded...I don't know you.

    I do intend to offer different viewpoints about posts in this thread if I have them.

    I would even venture to say that every shaman practices differently from the others...and that one needs to be very careful who they allow to work on them.

    I prefer to empower people to solve their own problems.
    Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Uh oh, shaman battle.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Come on shamanuggets, calm down.
    Lightsabres and organic carrots trump energy skills every day.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Money money money.
    I just have to laugh.
    If you measure yourself by money, or allow yourself to allow others to measure you by money, if you support others in their addiction to measuring by money, you are just plain old into money.

    When you brake the pattern, only then are you free, only then is your gift free, only then can you share unconditionally with someone. Only then can you fully share the power of love... the unconditional power of soul meeting soul with no measure for returns, profits or accounting.

    each healer, each shaman, if you will, will attract to them those who will provide to them as practitioners, exactly what they need to learn and express to get to their next level of realization.

    and it is clear to me that when you get to this point all that you need will come to you...and it may or may not be money

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Thankyou for this thread Ishtar.Its really enlightening. I think there's a bit of full moon madness at the moment, not just this thread! Please carry on Im really enjoying altho Ive still got to get through the articles. Looking forward to it. x

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    OK, I'll try!

    It's really making me laugh, actually. We do have a full moon plus we have 11 11 11 plus ... and there's bound to be some Mayan day or other happening, as there often is... does anyone know? All I know is that the Mayan days are getting shorter and shorter as we go into 2012.

    Anyway, I'm sure it will all come out in the wash and we'll all be friends. I hope so!

    I really just want to say how empowering shamanism and shamanic healing is, and how much it's changed my life. If I come over sounding a bit too dogmatic, I do apologise. But after meditating in various ways for around 40 years at least, and not really getting anywhere apart from gaining low blood pressure and a calm demeanour, I have found that shamanism and shamanic techniques are light years ahead in their transformative nature and within, say, six weeks of first learning how to journey, I was talking face-to-face with the spirits I'd been looking for all my life.

    I was enjoying this thread and how we were all of us, shamanic types of all different hues, exchanging information about various techniques without judging one another, and I myself have learned a lot from others too.

    So I'm hoping normal service will resume soon!

    Love to everyone
    Last edited by Ishtar; 11th November 2011 at 21:37.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Quote Posted by Fred S. (here)
    Uh oh, shaman battle.
    LOL. That's funny. Humor is good for the soul.
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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Come on shamanuggets, calm down.
    Lightsabres and organic carrots trump energy skills every day.
    I don't have a Lightsabre or Carrots. All I have is a

    Will that work? I realize that nothing trumps a lightsabre, but a girl's gotta use something.

    LOL
    Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred.

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    Souls do not have DNA and do not follow bloodlines. They don't need to as they are beyond that.

    As far as we know souls don't have DNA but the soul influences DNA. Akashic energy is quite quite a lot like DNA information and that isn't a coincedence. Not something I'd care to close my mind to by creating this condtion that the soul does or does not have.All our non physical existences are reflected here in the material world because the soul knows many of us don't have access to the non physical. You can tell a lot about what is happening in non physical realms by looking out into one's environment....someone noted this by saying 'as it is above so it is below. '

    All souls enter a bloodline. I haven't noticed any bloodless humans walking around lately. Please show me one.

    If souls are 'beyond all that' why are they still permeating a physical shell? Because the consciouness is not aware of all the soul knows because of ....conditions. Beliefs that are held in consciouness or subconciousness. We are not aware of most of the beliefs we hold.

    One can consciously arrange for their next incarnation in this lifetime. Didn't one Buddha come into many Buddha Bodies? How are Dali Lami's chosen. Who does those things. A certain race of people. But other bloodlines have been observed doing this for a reason. A trait that is peculiar to the bloodlines I've observed but doesn't mean limited to those bloodlines or races. Is reincarnation random or ....does the soul have something to do with it. If it's all knowing I'm sure it would choose to enter a bloodline . One reason is that bloodline may bring the closed mind in a bit closer to the circumstances of who and what it really is. A child raised in a shamanically generational family would have certain early insights into things that the white bread child raised next door to a 7-11 wouldn't.

    How helping others can be turned in a "slave mentality" is beyond me. I just don't even understand that.

    When you do understand that very basic conditioning of the human psyche let me know and we will go over it when we've reached a common frame of reference. Most people who are just entered the realms of alternative news and spirituality understand that we were conditioned to be slaves, we work to give it all away to someone in the form of taxes, fines, surcharges. Or for free. Know to ask nothing for ourselves is a virtue so its just easier for them to lead us by our noses. The PTB managed to infiltrate the new age though paradigms and insert it there.. It's WHY we do something for free that is the kicker. What we don't understand is how subtle and insidous slave mentality is.

    What I am about is trying to assist Humans to recognize and get out of the boxes that have them trapped.

    How do you do that if you are just the vessel and not doing anything? Trying implicates some effort on your part. Perhaps we are bit involved in the process than we are conditoned to believe? And that too is part of the paradigm of slave mentality. We are Just vessels to carry out a function for a higher authority call it God or call it ...Mastah.

    Our personal efforts mean nothing in relation to some 'higher' authority? Are these same people the ones they are going to Heaven as a reward for doing nothing? lol.

    We are supposed to more be the higher authority espeially if we are possessed of a soul that is 'beyond all that.' If the soul is our higher authority it seems it would give us a higher authority in these dealings.


    What are the boxes? Conditions? Do we assist them out of their conditioned boxes by applying more conditions? How? If you don't know what the slave mentality conditioning is how are you going to help someone recognize it when you don't know what it is yourself. It is one of the most subtle, common and insidious filters that we have because its been imbedded in the human psyche for thousands of years. It is insidous how it so subtly manifests itself.

    IMO, too much time is spent looking backward and not enough looking forward.

    In my personal opinion too much time is spent with the mind fixated on the past and the future when the soul is allegedly timeless and doesn't acknowledge either value ..Is something that is alleged to be eternal worried about time?. You said the soul was beyond all that. So what is looking forward to the future ...the soul or the mind. Must be the mind since the you stated the soul was beyond all 'that'. Past and future is also clever mind trick to keep someone from being in the present. The future is created in the now, the present. or is that all just another catchphrase that we repeat because it sounds handy.

    My soul contains the knowledge I need for my own soul path.

    That's great so we don't need teachers anymore. Terrific well that's all settled.
    but.....

    ....what if certain conditions are preventing the consciousness from acessing what the soul knows. Which is sort of the point of this topic?

    .....thousands of years of observation tells us .....We don't drop our baggage we set our conditions down and then pick up a whole new set of light sounding conditions and think its a spiritual journey. The soul isn't supposed to have conditions, those are values of a physical existence. Again if one cannot differentiate between the two we get all those opposing core beliefs or...conditions. Confusion and conflict over that confusion. We identify with the belief system and we think we are the belief. We invest that much in the belief that we close ourselves to any other possiblity and limit ourselves. Give the higher self something to do and it will do it and all this discourse becomes unneccesary.

    This is where all the conflict comes from. Our conditions. A spiritual experience tends to level the playing field. Our physical and consciouness experiences all seem to vary wildly and differently, causing confllct because we are still very much attached to the physical and give it greater importance than the soul. The mind creates conflict. Conflict we have. If the soul creates conflict there's not much point in attempting to access it as it will just bring us right round to where we are now.

    [B]Humans over think the spiritual. They get trapped by their mind/egos into boxes that they never escape from. The time has come to get out of those boxes and get ready for the ascension...and we do not have much time in order to do this.

    Humans perhaps should not think about the spiritual at all and just let it express itself without imposing judgements and conditions on it. The soul has all the time in the world if it is actually timeless as we have been led to beleive. The physical body may not but its not supposed to be very important anyway.

    What does ascenscion mean? Literally? Until someone came along and put a condtions and a new meaning on it.

    Animals, Plants, Stones...everything but Humans are far ahead of us in this respect.

    Because they lack our sort of conditioning.

    Animals , plants, stones they know all about having animal , plant and stone experiences and somehow managed to squeeze in knowing all about the human experience too??!!!

    Angels, Spirits, Dead People, Aliens EVERYONE knows more about the human experience than those actually having it!! Let's ask what sorts of belief systems and conditions a rock has.

    The things that these animals, plants and stones have in common is they aren't fixated on their belief systems. No one instilled a belief in a stone to teach it how to be a stone. It just sort of naturally expressed itself that way .

    .

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    Default Re: What Is A Shaman and What Does A Shaman Do?

    9eagle9, fantastic post! Thank you!

    While we're talking about animals and plants being ahead of humans in terms of realising their true natures, I'd like to add in something which I haven't mentioned before.

    Another piece of work I do is for the Land. I'm sure you know that there are a quite few shamans that work on the Land with the dragon currents (which have become known in common parlance as 'leylines') and that leylines are a bit like the meridians or nadis of the body which are part of the acupuncture system or yoga.

    During my work on the Land around here, I have come into contact with the spirits of the Land, and in fact, no work on the Land is possible without their help as that is their area of governance. These spirits are known in Celtic culture as the Fae (faeries), Sidhe, the Gentry or the Little People (although they are not that little and some of them are huge) but they are known by other names in different cultures.

    The wisdom they have been teaching me is about the desired triumvirate alliance between the three peoples: the human people, the Fae people and the animal people. The Fae are a much older, stellar race than us, they tell me ... in other words, they 'fell from the stars' before we did. But they are not people of the sun and their inner worlds in the Earth are starlit. Time for them goes much more slowly too, and they've learned over tens of thousands of years to hide themselves from man, for all the reasons that we're already aware of ~ because he's trashing the environment by squandering the resources and trying to control Nature instead of working alongside and with it ~ and they say that makes man very dangerous to be around and also to himself.

    So they tell me that we are here to learn and to evolve into a triumvirate alliance of man, fae and animal. They say that that the animals are already there and the Fae are now waiting for man, who is lagging behind, to wake up to his true nature (perhaps that's what you mean by 'ascend'? Some spiritual systems call it self-realisation or enlightenment.) Anyway, once man has woken up to find his natural place in the cosmos, he will then have the vision and understanding to appreciate the value of all Life, to see Spirit in all Life, and thus to respect and honour all Life.

    If anyone would like to know more about the Fae, I have written an article about it and can reproduce it here.
    Last edited by Ishtar; 12th November 2011 at 07:30.

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    Started reading but had to give up, suffering from a cold my poor brain and soul cannot handle this debate at the moment...Mercury is slowing down, going retro on Nov 24, time for misunderstandings and communication problems...also Mercury is squaring my Mars so even if i don't debate myself i get it in projection. Also Saturn is conjoining my Moon in retrogradation so i caught interest in the spagyric stuff of Ishtar. But what is "pure grain alcohol?"

    Surely could need some distant healing. Anything is welcome, i'm a bit worried i'm developing pneumonia...and i'm leaving for Stockholm on Tuesday for my birthday Nov 18...

    By the way the snakesymbolism is an appropriate sign of our times. In Mayan mythology Queatzalcoatl "The feathered serpent" is coming to the end of his repentance, having misused his powers. The Venuspassage btw June 6 2004 and June 8 2012 denotes a time when pple will rise up against their opressors and communication teqhniques will have breakthroughs. Not only advanced ET tech but also old ones like Mercury retrograde bringing up schamanism and what about telepathy and upgraded DNA due to the energyfield our whole galaxy is now in for 2000 years?

    On the wintersolstice Dec 21 2012 the Earth and the Sun will be in perfect alignment with the Galactic Center where the Ourobourus bites it's own tail in the vicinity of Scorpio, Sagittarius and the 13:th sign Ophiucus "The Serpentbearer"..hope i got the details right..mercury slow, my brain slow...doing things over and over again, maybe i will be back to correct some facts..

    Make of it what you wish, as RA states, this dimension is not for understanding....
    Last edited by transiten; 12th November 2011 at 08:23.

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    Quote Posted by transiten (here)
    Started reading but had to give up, suffering from a cold my poor brain and soul cannot handle this debate at the moment...Mercury is slowing down, going retro on Nov 24, time for misunderstandings and communication problems...also Mercury is squaring my Mars so even if i don't debate myself i get it in projection. Also Saturn is conjoining my Moon in retrogradation so i caught interest in the spagyric stuff of Ishtar. But what is "pure grain alcohol?"
    Pure grain alcohol (PGA) is also known as grain neutral spirits (GNS), and you can buy it here. In the absence of that, I have also used 80 proof vodka, which is almost as good.


    I will send you healing....


    EDIT ADDED LATER at 10.32 am. Have just sent you healing and I will message you with guidance from your spirits. Ishtar
    Last edited by Ishtar; 12th November 2011 at 09:31. Reason: Update

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