questions on reincarnation

[aranuk]

I have known about re-incarnation and karma for 50 years now. I have since that time went along with this spiritual concept. I have explained all the details about it to many people over this period of time too. In the early years I felt that only I knew about these sort of things as most people had not heard about it at all.

There are many things written in the bible about this that ministers in the church of the Christian persuasion know or seem to now nothing about. For example Jesus said to his disciples that John the Baptist was Elijah. Elijah died thousand or so years before John. The only way that makes sense is that Jesus was speaking about re-incarnation of course.

Anyway, as the years unfold before me I have started to question the sense of it all. Why would we, as spiritual beings, living on a higher plane, want to be incarnated on this planet Earth and undergo all the hardships this 3D world offers us?

You and I may count ourselves “lucky” by having a bit of a breathing space now and again by having “fun” which presumably we agreed with before we bought the ticket for planet Earth journey. However, there are millions of souls that bought tickets for here to only suffer pain and hunger, starvation, slaughter etc. Why would a 5th dimensional spirit want to experience that only and no fun at all? Perhaps the realm they came from was so friggin' boring?
Another thing I wonder about is this: the veil of forgetfulness is here so we cannot remember anything at all from the glorious realm we came from where all we need to do there is think of anything and it manifests instantly, so we are told by the so called sages. If some of us manage to look beyond the veil of forgetfulness aren't we cheating in this game? Are some of us allowed to cheat and others are not? The ones that don't see anything behind the veil, the ones who are so engrossed in this 3D existence and cannot understand spiritual matters not the ones who deserve the applause?

You know in these computer games where someone succeeds and goes on to win in the final stages not the true winner? The people who find the cheats and go on forward to the last stage are they not really the losers? You know what I mean here? Surely if we were playing the game fairly we would not be able to peek through the veil?

Stan

[Daughter of Time]

But are we really here by choice? Or were we, somehow, tricked into landing here?
And how is it that we don't remember out past incarnations? Some say it is because there is no time and all lives are experienced at once. But i have reservations about believing that.
Could it be that some very powerful but evils beings have manipulated us into landing here and are having fun at the chaos they are helping us to create?
Could we have been manipulated into forgetting all our past existences so that we never learn from our mistakes?
I don't have the answers. But I have a lot of questions because reincarnation and karma as being merely cause and effect does not make as much sense as it could.
Does anyone have any real answers about this?

[aranuk]

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)
But are we really here by choice? Or were we, somehow, tricked into landing here?
And how is it that we don't remember out past incarnations? Some say it is because there is no time and all lives are experienced at once. But i have reservations about believing that.
Could it be that some very powerful but evils beings have manipulated us into landing here and are having fun at the chaos they are helping us to create?
Could we have been manipulated into forgetting all our past existences so that we never learn from our mistakes?
I don't have the answers. But I have a lot of questions because reincarnation and karma as being merely cause and effect does not make as much sense as it could.
Does anyone have any real answers about this?

Hi DoT, Maybe we are as you say not here by choice. And that we were tricked also. That at least would account for quite a few things that don't seem to make sense. And why do we not remember our past incarnations. If we did remember, then when someone does something to you for no apparent reason other than karma then you would know not to give him/her back the compliment instead of retaliating and so incurring more bad karma. And instead of feeling guilty for dozens of years for doing something bad to someone we would know that it was now quits. Good thinking DoT. Again! I have said this before to you or was it deja vouz?

Stan

[blufire]

Reincarnation I find is a fascinating and entirely confusing subject for many of the reasons you brought up.

All I know is that I used to not believe in reincarnating until two years ago when I was at a workshop that included group regression into past lives. I didn’t “see” anything all through the morning sessions and most of the way through the afternoon sessions.

Suddenly clear as a bell I “saw” myself as a fourteen year old Inuit boy walking with a man I knew was my uncle. I was so very excited and scared because I was going on the hunting trip that would be my quest into becoming worthy of being a “man”.

Maybe this is partly why in this life I utterly hate cold weather.

In another regression a year later I saw another life as a young woman in what looked like an ancient library. I could remember the smell of the “paper” and scrolls. I felt very happy and comforted.

Maybe this is why in this life I love books and libraries and when I recently moved apologized over and over for the 26 boxes full of books.

[aranuk]

Thanks Bluefire for your input here. I am NOT saying reincarnation isn't a reality. I am sure it is. What I am questioning here is WHY and the supposed rules. There must be millions of people on the planet who accept the concept of re-incarnation UNQUESTIONINGLY. To me it would make more sense if certain questions were answered. Do you know what I'm getting at here?

Stan

[RMorgan]

I always think about it as well...

If I was up there in Heaven, having fun with the cute little white rabbits and playing harp with angels, I wouldn´t choose to come back to this planet as well. I can´t think of any reasons for waiting to come back here and go trough all the pain all over again...

However, who knows...Maybe someone up there has the ability to erase our memories from our previous life on Earth and induces us to accept coming here as the best deal ever...

Maybe, just like we don´t remember our experiences up there, when we are up there we might not remember our experiences down here...

Cheers,

Raf.

[lightseeker]

This is an interesting subject, aranuk, you might want to read Dr. Michael Newton's books Journey of Souls and his second book on the subject (name escapes me). Newton was interviewed by Kerry Cassidy about a year back . He has practiced regression therapy for many years helping people deal with trauma in their current lives. He was as he states a non-believer in god . One of his cases he regressed began speaking about a past life where he was killed during world war 1- stabbed with a bayonette. The pain in his side was the reason he came to see Newton. The client was able to identify his former self by name and his regiment . Research by Newton and client provided proof of his previous life. Newton has regressed over 7 thousand cases and has developed a method to regress people into the superconcious state between lives. You may find some answers in his two books. I know I did. I was always taught as a Roman Catholic that re-incarnation does not exist. I am sure many people of various Christian denominations were led to believe this. I am no longer a roman catholic and have not been for almost 30 years, nor am I a member of any other religion. I found Newton's books very enlightening. Many people speak ( in their regressions) regarding who and what they are as souls. Religion is seldom discussed by these people. Most consider it un helpfull to say the least. As souls you soon find out through listening to their discourse that religion has nothing to do with our lives as souls, it is utter non sense.

[shamanseeker]

Hi,
I think we are caught in the matrix: we are in prison if you like. The place we go to when we die is also in the matrix, most people have no idea that it is all an illusion even there. Most people don't remember their previous lives because our bodies and environment have been tampered with. Some people do remember their previous lives though. A lot of children do. When I started learning reiki, for example, I had a few dreams where I had flashes of previous lives probably because my chakras were opening up. These dreams all made sense and were explanations of why I am the way I am in this life.

[lightseeker]

Shamanseeker, I too have had dreams from time to time which gave me insight regarding myself in previous lives. I do not think this is at all unusual. Most of us remain unaware if this. As you have stated we are in a matrix trapped illusion. Our forgetfullness as souls when we re-incarnate may be deliberate but possibly not the norm. I certainly do not have all the answers. I am 62 yrs young and still on this wonderful journey of self discovery and enjoying it. I know that I AM an immortal spiritual being who happens to be experiencing a human experience. This little game we are all currently playing is changing as you know for the better. This is the fun part.

[pie'n'eal]

We are not here by choice! If you knew the possibilities you might not have chosen here.
We are DRIVEN by our mistaken ideas; the result is karma.

Please read, Too much 'interest' in your bank!

[dourpil]

Hello everyone!

"Why would we, as spiritual beings, living on a higher plane, want to be incarnated on this planet Earth and undergo all the hardships this 3D world offers us?"

I'd say: Experience. A lot of lessons are to be learned from this period and this place. It's a great opportunity, although we're having hard times. But the harder you garden, the more beautiful your fruits are.

"If some of us manage to look beyond the veil of forgetfulness aren't we cheating in this game? Are some of us allowed to cheat and others are not?"

It's not cheating. Some of us have greater lessons to learn if they look beyond the veil of forgetfulness. Most of us aren't ready or willing to remember all of our past lives. It would make this life's lessons less valuables I guess.
Those who remember, as those who don't, chose it.

The ones that don't see anything behind the veil, the ones who are so engrossed in this 3D existence and cannot understand spiritual matters not the ones who deserve the applause?

Everyone deserves applause. Applause someone, you applause yourself. We are One.

You know in these computer games where someone succeeds and goes on to win in the final stages not the true winner? The people who find the cheats and go on forward to the last stage are they not really the losers? You know what I mean here? Surely if we were playing the game fairly we would not be able to peek through the veil?

I know what you mean. But there are no losers in the game of life. If you "cheat" and take shortcuts to achieve something, you won't have felt the thrill of doing mistakes, correcting them, learning, enjoying, feeling good, being proud. That is why we don't "cheat" and accept the life we live. It's not the easiest but, between a highway and a hiking trail, I choose the hiking trail. Much harder but much more enjoyable, and I'll be proud of me when I get to the finish line.

[aranuk]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
I always think about it as well...

If I was up there in Heaven, having fun with the cute little white rabbits and playing harp with angels, I wouldn´t choose to come back to this planet as well. I can´t think of any reasons for waiting to come back here and go trough all the pain all over again...

However, who knows...Maybe someone up there has the ability to erase our memories from our previous life on Earth and induces us to accept coming here as the best deal ever...

Maybe, just like we don´t remember our experiences up there, when we are up there we might not remember our experiences down here...

Cheers,

Raf.

Hi Raf, it seems to me that it must be so so boring in the spiritual plane that we would want to flee it into 3D. You and I must admit this 3D life is anything but boring. I most certainly would be bored having fun with the cute little white rabbits and playing harp with angels. C'mon Raf you would too. Your comments about heavenly beings tricking us sounds to me like we have a conspiracy going on there with an elite who dumb us down there too. As above so below. God forbid.

Stan

[Amysenthia]

Hi Aranuk,

Love this discussion. My two cents on the matter after almost 35 years of study and having had past life regressions done, is that originally as pure souls we chose to come here for the source creator to experience this level of reality. Then we were messed with somewhere along the way and were made to forget our true home. Over the years this vibrational reality became grosser and lower vibrationally and it became even harder. Then as we lived lives in which we created Karma this caused a “heaviness” on our soul that required we return to expunge it. This is done by experiencing that which you created. This is the true meaning of “an eye for an eye” as the Bible teaches. This is also the explanation for why a child may be born blind or severely deformed. In that souls past life they may have mutilated a child or did something heinous for which coming back to live this type of existence will repay. It also gives those born around this child the opportunity to make good Karma by helping this child.

As people reach the ends of the repayment of Karmic debt and feel that they have experienced enough for the Source they choose not to come back and ascend to higher levels/dimensions of reality. When they getting close to this level they begin to see behind the veil of existence, and see the truth of “reality”. That we are all immortal beings have a human experience. Much like when playing a video game and as you get to the next level you can access some type of gift to help you get further. Like clicking on the golden shield icon or something.

I ALSO FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE MALEVOLENT INFLUENCES THAT OPERATE ON A LOW VIBRATIONAL FREQUENCY THAT ATTEMPT TO MESS WITH OUR SOULS IN THIS REALITY. There is so much material about this anyone can easily find it. This is what is alluded to in the Garden of Eve stories. We were tricked into not knowing that we are immortal souls just having a human experience. This memory was somehow taken from our soul experience and keeps us trapped in the cycles of rebirth. Some will say it is Satan, some will say it was malevolent extraterrestrial entities that use our low vibrational energies of anger/hatred/sex/ etc. for food. That this is the basis for the NWO plans to control Earth. To keep this energy source going. Such as the David Icke material. Some such as the Ayshana Deanne material say even to destroy the planet.

So thats the short version of what I think. I could go on and on but won’t.

[Jay]

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)
...And how is it that we don't remember out past incarnations?

While there are probably many answers to this one question - I wonder if we could learn IN TRUTH and grow towards becoming better beings IF we could remember all/any of our previous lives. That is to say - perhaps we would learn more through manipulating but because we would be able to manipulate more if we remembered - we wouldn't grow in truth. Perhaps not knowing keeps us in a place of humility which enables us to grow through "new" experiences :-)

If real life is our eternal life and this life is just a school - we might all be very surprised to find out who we really are!

[letmedanz]

Thanks for your post Aranuk.

I think (or i believe) that every single person living on this planet today (or most of us) are meant to be here.
We have understood that something is happening.
And this has been known to us humans in 3D a long long time ago as well.

So it is quite easy to deduce that originally as 5D beings (if we are), we already know the changes coming about on this planet & probably this will have an effect across the universe.
To facilitate in this journey of the planet, which is a living or conscious entity, we have volunteered to help.

The veil of forgetfulness is a good thing because you will be able to perform in this dimension with all the limitations having knowledge of a 'more capable' realm.

For eg, remember the time when CRTs were the norm? at that time it looked very beautiful.
Now with the awesome picture quality on LCDs & LEDs & 3d LEDs etc, we do not wish to go back to the CRT.
A simple comparison to what goes on in our mind whic at the moment is our most powerful tool.

As they say this life is only to work with your karma.
you can cheat or you can do it the normal way, you are the one accumulating or loosing the karma points

[jsb_swampfox]

I believe we have a soul, it is the reason we can reincarnate. Here is some interesting info:" Dr. Duncan "Om" MacDougall (c. 1866 – October 15, 1920) was an early 20th century physician in Haverhill, Massachusetts who sought to measure the mass purportedly lost by a human body when the soul departed the body upon death."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_(doctor)

[Arrowwind]

My opinion is that we are a part of a larger Human experience. We incarnate to bring to the human experience understanding of 3D reality and to master certain concepts of power utilization though our creative abilities. We create here on earth according to our beliefs and the same on the other side but in 3D we can more clearly see the impact and power of our expression. We continue to do this until we master the power sufficiently to not to need to come here anymore. It is more about the power of love than anything else, but power reflects into many different types of manifestations... power and love is multifaceted in it projections.

Human souls require a certain type of physiology to enter into physical reality. A human body is designed to facilitate and house a HUMAN soul. It is a gift to be able to be here and if you do not perceive it as a gift you will need to go back to the drawing board until you understand your purpose here and utilize your experience wisely.

When I reflect on reincarnation I always reflect on the Dalhi Lama as he is the living manifestion of the the proof and the purpose of reincarnation... although I am certain there are others one could contemplate.

I strongly recommend that people seek help in understanding reincarnation and there really is no other way to understand short of attaining some past life recall. Find a way to fulfill this, if through hypnosis or some other means. I managed to call it in by praying my intent to understand and have some awareness. At one point in my life I was driven to know. Prayer is merely a quantum process to create a new reality. Through sounding an internal prayer the experience I required unfolded for me.

Through my prayer experience it was brought to me understanding that clearly showed to me my continuity throughout the ages. This included direct recall through art as well as through hypnosis. I have had experience where I have met others that I was connected with in the past. Some of these people were quite close to me and others were not, just people I crossed paths with in the journey of life. What I came to realize over time is that many people that I have powerful experience with are people from previous connection. I am at the point now where I just automatically accept that as truth and acknowledge that most of us are old friends, or possibly adversaries. But many share a joint purpose in learning and in serving humanity's unfoldment.

When these realizations come about you start to understand that you do have an active part to play and that you can start self directing your potential and your expression in how you participate in this unfoldment.
Some of us are huge players but the vast majority work silently, quietly living an expression of growth and expanding capacity of love and creation.

This understanding has eliminated fear and confusion. I know that all is well even if it may seem to not be for there is a greater plan going on that I am not always aware of the details on.

[Arrowwind]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
We are not here by choice! If you knew the possibilities you might not have chosen here.
We are DRIVEN by our mistaken ideas; the result is karma.

Please read, Too much 'interest' in your bank!

I disagree with this. I think many of us are here by choice. We choose to confront our fears and to grow through 3D experience. We always have choice. We have choice to react in fear, to be misled, to disconnect from our source, to follow ill guided teachers. We are only deceived in so much as that that deception will bring us to our next level of learning... even if the teaching might be a long one, requiring much time and experience.
We can choose our way out also when we are ready to take on our full responsibility and to understand that we fully create our reality, either through choice or choosing default to another.


We are only in prison or the matrix for as long as we choose to subject ourself to limitation in belief and not take our rightful place as creators in the making. Those who would utilize us for power take full advantage of our weakness and in remaining asleep. We can change it at any moment by waking up to who we are and to start creating our own reality. But even this presents many lessons through which to work

[aranuk]

Posted by Amysenthia (here)
Hi Aranuk,

Love this discussion. My two cents on the matter after almost 35 years of study and having had past life regressions done, is that originally as pure souls we chose to come here for the source creator to experience this level of reality. Then we were messed with somewhere along the way and were made to forget our true home. Over the years this vibrational reality became grosser and lower vibrationally and it became even harder. Then as we lived lives in which we created Karma this caused a “heaviness” on our soul that required we return to expunge it. This is done by experiencing that which you created. This is the true meaning of “an eye for an eye” as the Bible teaches. This is also the explanation for why a child may be born blind or severely deformed. In that souls past life they may have mutilated a child or did something heinous for which coming back to live this type of existence will repay. It also gives those born around this child the opportunity to make good Karma by helping this child.

As people reach the ends of the repayment of Karmic debt and feel that they have experienced enough for the Source they choose not to come back and ascend to higher levels/dimensions of reality. When they getting close to this level they begin to see behind the veil of existence, and see the truth of “reality”. That we are all immortal beings have a human experience. Much like when playing a video game and as you get to the next level you can access some type of gift to help you get further. Like clicking on the golden shield icon or something.

I ALSO FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE MALEVOLENT INFLUENCES THAT OPERATE ON A LOW VIBRATIONAL FREQUENCY THAT ATTEMPT TO MESS WITH OUR SOULS IN THIS REALITY. There is so much material about this anyone can easily find it. This is what is alluded to in the Garden of Eve stories. We were tricked into not knowing that we are immortal souls just having a human experience. This memory was somehow taken from our soul experience and keeps us trapped in the cycles of rebirth. Some will say it is Satan, some will say it was malevolent extraterrestrial entities that use our low vibrational energies of anger/hatred/sex/ etc. for food. That this is the basis for the NWO plans to control Earth. To keep this energy source going. Such as the David Icke material. Some such as the Ayshana Deanne material say even to destroy the planet.

So thats the short version of what I think. I could go on and on but won’t.

Hi Amysenthia I could have written what you did. I have been taling about Re-incarnation for 50 goddam years as I said in my OP. I don't disagree with what you said. What you have said above is what you or I myself would have said and I have been saying for years. What I am saying now is I am questioning the reasons for it and the "supposed" rules, none of which in my mind make any sense at all.

Stan

[VaughnB]

Edgar Cayce on Consciousness, Karma

Edgar Cayce: According to the secret teachings, the universe was not first created out of matter, but existed prior to material creation in spirit form. Imagine a consciousness similar to our own, except that this first consciousness was boundless, a Universal Consciousness. This is God.