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    Borden
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    Default Con artists

    Dear Avalonians,

    I posted something on a recent thread about Bob Dean, and let vent my frustration with one or two things. It wasn't the best place to do it, so I'm creating this thread.

    The gist is this: most of the video interviews I watch from 'whistle-blowers', 'contactees' and the like strike me as palpable cons. I say this because it's what I see. I don't have any cause, so to speak. Not in this department. I am not a Dawkins type, intent on debunking and discrediting every unusual claim I run into. On the contrary.

    I, like you, am interested in the truth behind the lie, otherness, a solution to the miserable dross with which we are presented and told it's reality. It isn't, and I want to see the wiring under the board. If aliens or extra-dimensionals or whoever else are here - I want to know all about it. If we are being kept from our true heritage and fed lies to keep us subdued and powerless, then I want to know about it. Frankly, if the Queen is a blood-drinking lizard, I definitely want to know about it.

    However, the vast majority of the interviews I have watched seem to be the spiel of con-men. They have speaking engagements, the lecture circuit, a book to sell. There's always more, amazing, explosive information 'coming soon'. There's always directness about that which cannot be proven or disproven ... and a misty haze about anything that could.

    These super-soldiers, for instance; these psychics; these contactees who can summon aliens. Do it then! Show us all on film!

    As I mentioned in the aforementioned thread, I know quite a bit about the psychology of liars and con men. Why is irrelevant. You don't need me to tell you how to spot a liar either - just use your intelligence. Why are these people allowed to live after they divulge above top secret information? Why do they never have anything solid and laboratory test-worthy to show us? Why is there always a new book, some more information that will blow your mind, a new speaking tour?

    Think.

    It's really very, very simple. It's really a very, very simple logical problem.

    There are other means at your disposal too. You can learn about body language and the characteristics of liars. When you do, you see a veil lifted, and a world full of adults who operate on an emotionally child-like level. Many people live in dark little inner idylls where the truth is merely a tool. The truth - I believe - should be paramount if the species is to elevate itself from the darkness of its condition.

    There's a certain amount of intuition involved in spotting a liar, but intuition should not be confused with a desire to believe or disbelieve something. Your intuition is amazing when you get out of its way and let it do its thing. It can 'compute' minutiae and discrepancy that you simply cannot with the conscious process of reasoning. When reasoning meets obstacles and imponderables it tends to become circular and untrustworthy.

    This is just one facet of something I believe very strongly in - that we are all being wilfully, systematically disempowered. We are like a man using a super computer as a door-stop while he tackles a sum with pen and paper.

    When you understand how a liar's mind operates - the justifications, or lack thereof if they are a psychopath ... it all becomes rather embarrassingly obvious. Psychopaths are far harder to spot. It's usually a person's subconscious feeling about the lie they are telling that gives them away.

    I said I wouldn't name names, but I don't think there's any harm in mentioning people I deem to not be liars, but genuine seekers and researchers of the truth. This is based on watching them speak, not their information. Klaus Dona, Graham Hancock, to name two. I think those guys have integrity.

    There is someone who spews an articulate, eloquent spiel that he has clearly concocted and studied very hard in order to maintain his charade. But I'm not naming names. I will say that if they ever made a movie about this guy and Paul Giamatti didn't get the part I'd be disappointed and amazed. Now there's a clever liar. But he's too neurotic, and he's too much of an actor. You can't convince the wary and intelligent if you are clearly putting so much into your performance.

    And in fact, that's probably the crucial thing to remember. The more effort that has gone into the act of kindly grand-father, neurotic scientist, scared whistle-blower, etc, etc, etc ... the likelier it is that the person is lying. People who are telling the truth do not invest effort into telling the truth. This is a simple thing to remember.

    How would you feel if you were in their shoes? How would you talk about what you knew? If you approach the subject in this way then you may find that you see blatant liars where before there was doubt.

    The reason I got angry yesterday and added some fairly angry posts to that thread about Dean, was the same reason I get angry with so called mediums. Disgusting con-men who are abusing the most cherished and most painful feelings a human being has. It is a scam, a circuit, a gravy train. The subjects in this forum are the same. We need to understand that.

    When 'Charles' was all the talk here I made some comment about how I didn't believe him and we should have more discernment. I got accused of being a disinformation agent and God knows what. I just didn't believe him, that's all. But I had a trepidation about saying I didn't believe him. You know why? Because Bill Ryan clearly did. Well, we can't let that hold us back. I like Bill's interviewing technique, and I think he has integrity. That doesn't mean I think he's always right. I think we should be extremely wary of that kind of loyalty, because it isn't loyalty. If your best friend was being suckered you'd want to tell him wouldn't you?

    Not that Bill Ryan saw my posts or gave two hoots about what I think ... but you see my point, I hope. We can't be cowed in this forum because a respected member feels differently than we do. That would defeat the point of it all, wouldn't it?

    So. I see mostly liars and con-men. It disappoints and depresses me. I don't have an agenda to expose ALL who talk about the things we're interested in as con-men. Just those who are. Which is most of them.

    If we can raise this game and not fall for the con-men, then we are closer to understanding the things we are really interested in. We could make this infertile ground for liars, by being strong in our minds and unwilling to accept the rubbish that we are so often presented with. It makes me sad, and it's very frustrating.

    I'd appreciate any comments on this subject, though I realise some people may want to blast me for not believing in the people they do, but that's okay. People seemed to want to hear more and possibly had some questions for me, so if you do, please ask away.

    Borden

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    Default Re: Con artists

    Like all of us we want the truth and in some cases we are so willing to accept something that "One " person says we forget everything else including our own feelings on the matter. courage comes from going against the masses and saying "I Dont Believe it" Good Courage my friend.

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    Default Re: Con artists

    Thank you for bravely sticking your head above the parapet, rather than just giving up and fading off into the distance.

    Kathie

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    Default Re: Con artists

    People are too quick to fall in line.

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    Default Re: Con artists

    Hi Borden,

    This is a great thread. I absolutely agree with you.

    You know, I´ve managed to learn a couple of things during my life...

    Regarding whistle blowers, I´m sure that if one of them was actually addressing a "national security" top-secret issue, he/she would not be alive. That´s for sure. I´ve seen cases of minor whistle blowers, who just leaked some info from a corporation, getting murdered in cold blood.

    I´m 100% sure that, any time I hear something about a whistle blower leaking top-secret government info, it´s just pure entertainment, and I hear it just like a read a sci-fi novel or watch a fancy Hollywood movie.

    I mean, just look at Julian Assange. He´s a real whistle blower, and look what´s happening to him. The CIA just don´t kill him right now because he has the support of a very large group of people and the full attention of the worldwide media.

    Another thing I´ve learned, is that life is hard sometimes. People often choose to believe such surrealistic "theories" and new-age pseudo-gurus, because they need a break from the nightmare. It´s nice to dream, to imagine a better word, to feel hope that a magical solution for our problems will appear.

    As you´ve said above, this is all a big business. It´s people making money out of other people willing to buy new beliefs to anesthetize their painful minds...

    The only difference between most of these new-age celebrities, from sci-fi writers, is that the writers are honest and tell everyone their work is a fiction.

    In fact, many sci-fi writers, along history, were considerably more accurate than these new-agers in coming up with future predictions.

    I just want you to know that I feel your pain and frustration, my friend...Just let it be...

    Nowadays, I just let people believe in what they want. Anyway, it´s better for them to believe that the Queen is a lizard, than to believe that she´s a saint.

    Cheers,

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 17th November 2011 at 23:04.

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    Default Re: Con artists

    It's so easily done....every single day.



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    Default Re: Con artists

    Thanks, Borden! As someone who has opinions that are perceived as radical even amongst non-mainstream types, I appreciate your forthrightness.

    I agree in that there are outright liars who are relatively easy to spot. But I also believe that the majority actually believe that they speak truth. Some have allowed their ego to get the better of them, which is sad, but it's a risk everyone takes on this plane. And very few are 100% genuine and speak 100% truth.

    Add to that our own perception. Someone may come across as arrogant when in reality it is simply complete innocence. In the movie Amadeus, Mozart said with utmost conviction that his symphony was perfect as it was when questioned by Salieri. That isn't arrogance; it's a knowing without doubt, but it can certainly come across as arrogance. I know of at least one whistleblower who I'm sure is perceived as arrogant by some when it is simply naivety on how to deal with mostly jaded, hardened humans (not jaded by choice, but by living in this reality where lying is not only accepted but encouraged and has been for years and years and years).

    As someone searching for the truth, all I can do is decide for myself what to accept and what to discard as either lies or ignorance. It's not easy, it's often not fun, but each time I find another piece of the puzzle, I feel like I've achieved something major. And for that it's worth striving for the truth, digging through pages and pages to just find that one crumb of truth. And yes, it's perfectly fine to show righteous anger at all the disinfo thrown in the way, too!

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    Default Re: Con artists

    I agree, pie'n'eal ... but hilariously this forum is surely supposed to be for people who don't fall in line! Out of the frying pan into the fire!

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    Default Re: Con artists

    Hi Borden, I rather admire you're spunkiness, because as many here may have noticed I like to challenge from time to time also when I see fit. How about 2 sides of the coin here. On the one side, it took me maybe a month to figure out what a fraud Stephen Hodges was/is. On the other hand, if you want loboratory proof about seemingly outlandish claims, I wonder what ever happened to Nikola Tesla's field notes concerning free energy, or why he is not even mentioned in polite society?

    Cheers Mate,
    Fred

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    Default Re: Con artists

    Quote Posted by Fred S. (here)
    Hi Borden, I rather admire you're spunkiness, because as many here may have noticed I like to challenge from time to time also when I see fit. How about 2 sides of the coin here. On the one side, it took me maybe a month to figure out what a fraud Stephen Hodges was/is. On the other hand, if you want loboratory proof about seemingly outlandish claims, I wonder what ever happened to Nikola Tesla's field notes concerning free energy, or why he is not even mentioned in polite society?

    Cheers Mate,
    Fred
    Hey Fred,

    I think these are two completely different things. Claiming things is different than doing things.

    In Mr.Tesla´s case, we know, he did things, many things. In fact, he invented hundreds of things that are common to us nowadays. So, from a guy that accomplished so many amazing tasks, we actually can expect that the claims that his kind of free energy tech was and still is suppressed.

    This is called reputation. A simple word worth more than any laboratory test, when it comes from a man with an outstanding reputation, because if he doesn´t fulfill his claims and promises, he loses it all.

    Just imagine if Steve Jobs claimed to have invented free energy devices for everyone, as an example. Would you believe him? I would. Tesla was as famous and respected as Steve Jobs, in his time, so such claims should indeed be taken very seriously.

    A guy who just claim things...Is another story. Anyone can claim anything...

    Just take all these guys we keep talking about here on PA. Today they come up with a theory, tomorrow when this theory is proved to be wrong, they come up with another theory, and so on... Impressively, some people still insist to believe in a person with zero reputation, who doesn´t fear to lose nothing, because he has actually nothing to lose.

    Cheers,

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 17th November 2011 at 23:36.

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    Default Re: Con artists

    As for information that's distributed by Whistleblowers. I use the "Lisa Renee" Method "Please take in what truly resonates with your heart, and discard the rest". - By Lisa Renee - It works for me all the time! And What works for me, may not necessarily work for you! We all connect the dots differently, some using a pen and some using a magic marker!
    Last edited by WhiteFeather; 17th November 2011 at 23:31.
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    Default Re: Con artists

    Great post Borden. It seems with each passing day it becomes more and more clear how much disinfo is out there. It takes alot of discernment and intuition to process all the information we have available to us. It's also so important to keep an open mind. I have found myself strongly rejecting certain info and then years later percieving it completely differently and accepting it. And vice versa. You gotta be willing to let go of certain beliefs or trust you may have put in certain people (whistle blowers, authors etc..) once the writing is on the wall that the info is not true.

    You do that if you really care about the truth. As far as the queen being a reptile? Who knows. I do know one thing. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

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    Default Re: Con artists

    Quote Posted by Fred S. (here)
    Hi Borden, I rather admire you're spunkiness, because as many here may have noticed I like to challenge from time to time also when I see fit. How about 2 sides of the coin here. On the one side, it took me maybe a month to figure out what a fraud Stephen Hodges was/is. On the other hand, if you want loboratory proof about seemingly outlandish claims, I wonder what ever happened to Nikola Tesla's field notes concerning free energy, or why he is not even mentioned in polite society?

    Cheers Mate,
    Fred
    Start Here Fred! This will keep you occupied for awhile! Let me know if you need more info on Free Energy Devices!
    http://www.free-energy-info.com/
    http://www.free-energy-info.com/PJKbook.pdf

    Peace! ~WF~
    Last edited by WhiteFeather; 17th November 2011 at 23:42.
    "Although I Live On This World, I Choose Not To Live In It"
    <:~W.F.~:>

    "The answer to every question can be found in nature, if one knows how to look and listen”
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    "Everything on the Earth has a purpose, Every disease a herb to cure it, and every person a mission. This is the Indian theory of existence".
    Mourning Dove Salish


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  25. Link to Post #14
    Borden
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    Default Re: Con artists

    I wish there was a way around the naming names thing, because it would really help if we could dissect particular people's stories. You MUST know who I meant when I mentioned Paul Giamatti as a perfect casting choice!

    But good comments here, thank you people. Where can we go with this? I feel we need to toughen our skins. Obviously not to the detriment of our openness to information that may be valid.

    Borden
    Last edited by Borden; 17th November 2011 at 23:57.

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    United States On Sabbatical
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    Default Re: Con artists

    Why can't we name names? If certain people write books, give lectures and so on claiming certain things for the public record why should'nt we be able to discuss the veracity of thier claims?
    As long as it's understood that in doing that it is ultimately a personal decision in who or what we believe in and not taking it personally if someone else differs in thier views. And also understanding that ultimately it's our opinion. It's like what WhiteFeather said we all connect the dots differently.

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  29. Link to Post #16
    Borden
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    Default Re: Con artists

    Thanks, Loveisall21,

    well, I don't want to get sued is why I'm not naming names. But maybe I can't be sued if I state that this is simply my opinion? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I agree with you completely though.

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  31. Link to Post #17
    Brazil Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Con artists

    Quote Posted by Borden (here)
    Thanks, Loveisall21,

    well, I don't want to get sued is why I'm not naming names. But maybe I can't be sued if I state that this is simply my opinion? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I agree with you completely though.

    Well, I´m sure you can name names if you are polite and make sure it is your opinion. This is freedom of speech.

    Personally, whenever I do similar critics to such characters, I don´t like to directly name them to avoid raising the wrath of the fanboys.

    Cheers,

    Raf.

    Ps: Go on my friend. Some things need to be said indeed.

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  33. Link to Post #18
    United States Avalon Member Intranuclear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Con artists

    I completely agree with your initial post to this thread. I also feel infinitely frustrated that truth seems to be so elusive. However, it also makes sense. Information is power. Take Google for example. For a programmer or really anyone in the field of science, the kind of power Google (or other search engines) supply is difficult to measure, but it is immense to say the least.

    So having said that, I have to ask. Why would someone give away the kind of power that drives civilizations? And if they do, why would they expect to be alive and not have those hungry for control silence them?

    Businesses are all about prediction. Can't run a business without forecasting your plans and intentions to the banks, or your clients, or your shareholders. They want to know that their money is safe and growing. So imagine what it takes to keep a really large and static business alive. What would you do to protect that? Oh, lets not forget all the people that are employed by that business directly or indirectly. They don't want to lose their jobs and many could care less about ascension or enlightenment. They just want the small things in life.

    The way I judge truth these days is simple. Build on it or with it. If it crumbles, then it is crap. Of course it may take a while for it to crumble, thus we have the civilization we do today. But at some point, just like the Soviet Union, crumble it will. It is a constant process. While there is one scientific method acknowledged by all scientists, there are many religions. Guess which is superior?

    But in the end my frustration with all the bull**** remains. I do want to KNOW and I am sick and tired of all the charlatans.
    On the other hand, I always remind myself that anything can truly be made true. It is simply a matter of time and energy.

    Cheers.

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  35. Link to Post #19
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    Default Re: Con artists

    Maybe it is not so much a con, but the pull of the crowd!
    Many join this forum only to leave, hoping to pick up a few followers.

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  37. Link to Post #20
    Borden
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    Default Re: Con artists

    Thanks Intranuclear,

    I agree with you

    Borden

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