the Bible

[kreagle]

HORIZONS,

You're exactly "on target",....(no surprise, here),.......with what I was going to bring out. I will elaborate in a later post.

How do you think "this" played into His earthly ministry? What "wisdom" do you read into His decision to "appear" as such to humanity. You know He "could have" appeared as "whatever He wanted to",......seeing how He was the Lord God, Himself housed in an "earthly tabernacle".


Your friend and servant,.........kreagle

[HORIZONS]

The attraction of Christ is spiritual, and not physical. Too much emphasis is placed upon the external appearances of this world, but that has nothing to do with Spirit. The "head and shoulders" man - the person that stands out and above other men is almost never the man of God's choosing, as God looks into the heart of man and not his outward appearance. You see this happen over and over in Bible scripture, and this spiritual principle can be seen in every aspect of spiritual truth.

To make sure that people were not attracted to the external outward appearance Jesus appeared in the most humble of fashions - from His birth to His death. There is nothing much to look at in Christ as an external outward appearance - the attraction is one of Spirt - and it is the same with the Bible - it is a spiritual book and is to be discerned spiritually, as the outer appearance can be easily dismissed, but the Spirit of the Word is powerful indeed - if it is ever experienced.

Christ Jesus came to the world as a Spiritual King (and as such He overcame this world), not an earthly king (which is what people wanted according to the natural interpretation of the scripture) - even His ministry at that time is a spiritual ministry more-so than an outward one - but that which is true within is to make its way outward, which is why you see Him healing every disease and ministering to all the people that came to Him. The only people He rejected were the Religious ones, as that is nothing but an external message of dead works - Hence, His blasting of all religious works according to the flesh, and not according to the Spirit.

People that judge truth according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit are missing the whole point of Truth - for the truth is not out there somewhere, but is within you - and this is what Christ is in reality - the spiritual Truth within you, and is awaiting your recognition and acceptance. This is why the truth of Christ is so much more than the man Jesus that lived 2000 years ago, as the truth of Christ is the truth of you - but this is spiritual truth, and the natural man will never see, understand or know it, just as the natural men of Jesus' time looked at Jesus and saw nothing much more than a man of the flesh - but those that saw with spiritual eyes saw The Christ - and this pattern has been repeating itself over and over - and so it is even today.

[ulli]

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things."
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-36.html

The above passage is from the Baha'i writings, revealed by Bahaullah in the 19th century, where he refers to Jesus, and which is considered by Baha'is of Judaic-Christian origin to be a continuation of the Bible.
Will spiritual eyes recognize the Word of God here, and welcome the latest of the biblical prophets?
Or at least consider such a possibility?

[Beren]

Beautiful passages here of late!

Message of God was Love, is Love and will be Love.

Christ`s powerful way of showing us that spirit matters not flesh though flesh has its part in the circle of life.

Here on Earth we think that death is the end. It`s not.
Christ showed us that we should not fear death.
We`re spirits and souls in bodies not reverse.

On cross he utters the words "forgive them father for they know not what they done- or do"
Why?
Because he knows that very soon he will be freed from body and return to glory from whence he came.
He forgives them because they don`t know that they cannot kill him.
They don`t know that essences of their souls were looking from the heavens then on and weeping of what their other parts on Earth are currently doing.

"Forgive them..."

They don`t know .
But nevertheless because of that choice they did they experienced later on a energy balance of form of death (return back to the source) or whatever earthly "bad " experience.

"Forgive them..."

Even now here on Earth majority doens`t know what they are doing...

[Beren]

Posted by ulli (here)
"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things."
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-36.html

The above passage is from the Baha'i writings, revealed by Bahaullah in the 19th century, where he refers to Jesus, and which is considered by Baha'is of Judaic-Christian origin to be a continuation of the Bible.
Will spiritual eyes recognize the Word of God here, and welcome the latest of the biblical prophets?
Or at least consider such a possibility?

Ulli ,

God has many tools and who are we to judge him?



Test the spirit so you can know
is it of Fear or is it of Love.

If it`s of Love- very rock or tree or young kid can teach you and make you feel divine and in heaven.
If it`s of Fear- very brother or sister or miracle that happens before your eyes will make you scared and less worthy.

[kreagle]

Dear "friends" of Avalon,

The topic I recently brought up,....."The Appearance of Jesus",....has been one of interest to me,.....mainly because of "mankind's viewpoint".

Whether we want to admit it, or not, we are undeniably guilty of "making our choices and decisions" based upon "what we see",....rather than "what we know".

"What we see", first, should never be the deciding factor, for God's people. The "appearance of things" should never override "what we know", as we see here in the story about Lot.

In the Biblical account of "Abraham and Lot"(Gen. 13:1-13),.....God instructs Abraham to "separate himself" from Lot, and it was here, that Abraham allowed Lot the "opportunity to choose" which direction he would take his family and herds. Consequently, Abraham, would take whichever direction that Lot "turned down". On the "surface" it appears that Lot was given "first choice",....but in reality it was Abraham taking that "first choice", in that, his decision was predicated on the "fact" that he knew that "God was with him" and would be his guide and provider, regardless of the direction that Lot chose. You see,.....Abraham's choice was made on "what he knew",....making his decision to allow Lot "first choice",.....(used, by Lot, to "select what he saw" the well-watered plains of Sodom and Gomorrah),....in all actuality, "the REAL first choice",.....after all! (note: I think we all know how that "first choice by Lot" turned out,.....don't we? The "appearance" of what Lot saw wasn't so grand, after all, was it?)


Another "eye opener", as to the fallacy of "external appearances", is found in the Biblical account of Israel "selecting their first King, Saul" (1 Samuel chapters 9 & 10) Notice the scriptural description of Saul's "qualifications",....or shall we, more accurately say,...."appearance".


1 Samuel 9:1-2
King James Version (KJV)

9 Now there was a man of Benjamin, whose name was Kish, the son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Bechorath, the son of Aphiah, a Benjamite, a mighty man of power.

2 And he had a son, whose name was Saul, a choice young man, and a goodly: and there was not among the children of Israel a goodlier person than he: from his shoulders and upward he was higher than any of the people.

Pretty "impressive resume",...wouldn't you say? The entire nation of Israel certainly thought so. What an "appearance" they would, no doubt, make with a "King like this"! What other "logical choice" could they have possibly come up with? They, no doubt,....had their man,......the "best looking and tallest candidate from their very own ranks"!

Sadly, though, it only takes a "little more reading" from the sacred Scriptures, for the reader to be able to realize that there was something "horribly wrong" with this "latest attempt", by mankind, to once again,.....impress with "external appearance". You see, something was wrong with the "internal heart", of this "external appearance". Saul, indeed,....had a "bad heart" which would completely override anything that his "appearance" had to say and offer. The next thing we see is this "kingly figure of a man", Saul, defeated on the field of battle and "falling upon his own sword".( 1 Samuel 31:4) Another lesson, is being taught, here, by a loving and caring Lord God, to His people, Israel,....AND...for "the spiritual Israel, to come", (that's you and I,.....the Church). Again,....the message is "clear",.....don't make your decisions on "what you see",....the external appearance,......but rather......on "what you know"! Israel,.....knew better than to "select a king",......when they "already had a King of kings,.....and Lord of lords"!,......BUT......they did it anyway!


Our "dear friend and brother", HORIZONS, has already "begun to point out the many dangers" of any potential decisions we might make, in reference to any "external appearances." His reference to Isaiah Chapter 53, is spot on, and is in reality the impetus for this particular post, quite frankly. HORIZONS quotes from the GOD'S WORD translation,.....and the following is from the KJV, which I predominately use......


Isaiah 53:1-5
King James Version (KJV)

53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


Verse 2, above, really speaks "volumes upon volumes" about the wisdom of our God, if you take some time and ponder on "what's really being said here"! Here we have our Lord God,....fully capable of "manifesting Himself" in any possible form that He Chose,.....and He winds up "choosing,.....'no form nor comeliness',...and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

I, respectively, submit to you all, that Jesus' "external appearance", was "anything but aesthetically pleasing",.....which is backed up by this passage of Scripture. Dare I say that Jesus' "external appearance" was on the "borderline of Him actually being ugly"?Surely "our Creator" is lovingly telling us, here, that in order to "visualize the true beauty,...and Truth" we are going to be required to rely upon "what we know", (by faith),....and not upon "what we see", in the "external appearance"! We are going to be required to go "internally",.....beyond the "external" to see the "real beauty and workings of God"!!!

Did you know that the "original tabernacle", implemented during the days of Moses and early Israel, was "externally covered" with a "combination of rams' skins, badgers' skins, and curtain layers of goats hair"? This "external appearance" was, indeed, very "unattractive" to view from a "outside perspective",....but,....my oh my,.....the "beauty beyond words",....was on full display for the "chosen Levitical priests,.....and "especially" High Priest, Aaron",...who were "allowed to go inside the tabernacle",....and then into the "Holiest of Holies"!


Did you know that the "New Testament tabernacle",(the "body" of Jesus Christ), was made in the "same fashion",.....(plain and "unattractive" on the "outside"),.....but "beautiful beyond human imagination" to those who access Its' "inward depths" through faith in Him and His Word!!

"Same" externally unattractive tabernacles,......at "different" times,......"same" glorious God dwelling within "both of them",......."same" unfathomable beauty within each.

(in conclusion)

It's with "this line of thinking and understanding",.....that I, personally have a great deal of compassion for "natural Israel". They, no doubt, rejected Jesus when He was among them,.....but "in the light of the above",........how many of "us" would have been probably "just as guilty"?


When the "messiah came" that Israel had been looking for,....for such a long time,..."Natural Israel" was looking for the "appearance" of their "King of kings", riding upon His white horse, in "all of His glory!,....but "instead",....they got,..... (note: He, will indeed, come that way,...one day! - Rev. 19:11)

Matthew 21:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

No doubt, when the "messiah came" that Israel had been looking for,.....He would come directly from the "highest order of bloodlines", (in 'their' minds),.....would He not?,.....but He came,......from where?

Mark 6:3-4
King James Version (KJV)

3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

4 But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.


Surely, when the "messiah came" that Israel had been looking for,...."this One" who made His dwelling place in Heaven would "certainly" not come from the......"wrong side of the "tracks", to speak,....or "the wrong side of town",......would He? He would, no doubt, come from a "prestigious locale",....in "their minds",....but instead he came...... (from "Nazareth"?)


John 1:45-46
King James Version (KJV)

45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.


So you see, in reality, it would really be foolish to "throw any rocks",....or....to "condemn Israel in any way",.....for "truthfully"....."were they really any different than a majority of "us" are today?

"Truthfully",...upon my observation of mankind,.....I think not, my friends.


I believe "our God" has been "taking notes on His creation" for a long time,....."even the beginning"!

Not only does God have us "figured out",......but "rather knew us all along"!


(point: "Aren't you glad we "all" have a God who is "always on the job",....and never "misses anything"?)


Psalm 121:4
King James Version (KJV)

4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.



Think about this the next time you, perhaps, pass an "elaborate Church facility". (Now let it be known, precisely, that I'm not "speaking against" externally beautiful Church facilities,....because I'm not! I, personally, know of "several" that are , in fact, "more beautiful on the inside",.....than they even are on the "outside"!)

What about the "many less elaborate Church facilities" that we "all" pass by, in life?(There "just may be" something more "profound and beautiful",.....beyond those "ordinary doors",.....than you can "possibly ever imagine"!)


But,....I am saying,......"look for the true "inward beauty",....beyond the "external"!!



Your friend and servant,.........kreagle

[kreagle]

HORIZONS,

I want to personally thank you, my friend and brother, for you "great contributions" to this particular thought. It's an honor and privilege to share "these wonderful Biblical concepts" with someone "in the know",....such as yourself.

Once again,......thanks, my brother!

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[HORIZONS]

Posted by kreagle (here)
HORIZONS,

I want to personally thank you, my friend and brother, for you "great contributions" to this particular thought. It's an honor and privilege to share "these wonderful Biblical concepts" with someone "in the know",....such as yourself.

Once again,......thanks, my brother!

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

You are most humbly welcome my friend - it has been a long journey with many twists and turns, and bumps in the night - but the goodness of God is ever faithful to see us through if we will only look to Him.

Grace and peace to you, and many thanks to you too for all of your posts - they are a blessing indeed!

[bogeyman]

When reading the Bible remember the historical and cultural events and beliefs systems at that time must be taken into consideration, the context of these passages may of had different meanings then, than what we would interpret now. Just has our language and culture develops.

"Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?" Isaiah 2:22

This is one of my favorite passages.

[HORIZONS]

Posted by bogeyman (here)
When reading the Bible remember the historical and cultural events and beliefs systems at that time must be taken into consideration, the context of these passages may of had different meanings then, than what we would interpret now. Just has our language and culture develops.

"Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?" Isaiah 2:22

This is one of my favorite passages.

Good point!!! and I often use this scripture as well, as it speaks of the Adamic man and all that he is in this world.

[Beren]

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

Posted by bogeyman (here)
When reading the Bible remember the historical and cultural events and beliefs systems at that time must be taken into consideration, the context of these passages may of had different meanings then, than what we would interpret now. Just has our language and culture develops.

"Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?" Isaiah 2:22

This is one of my favorite passages.

Good point!!! and I often use this scripture as well, as it speaks of the Adamic man and all that he is in this world.

Adam represents a man in fallen conscience and this type of humanity we experience now.
Christ is a new man of God .

[bogeyman]

The Gospel of Mary is interesting but never included in the "mainstream" Bible. There are many other Gnostic texts which also were not included. Do not forget the Bible was and is a collection of writings from different sources and different time periods, it was the early christian church which decided what should be included in what is now termed The Bible, if I understand correctly.