The Bible

[HORIZONS]

John 17: 1 "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said , Father, the hour is come ; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent . 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do . 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was . 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were , and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. "

1 John 5: 1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" ... "9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

[RedeZra]

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. - John 3:16


No tnx God


i guess i'm gonna crash with Krishna

be with Buddha abide in Allah

or just philosophise about it

and twist my body in difficult positions

or try the new thing on the internet


what perish ?

[greybeard]

The book Power vs Force explains it well.
If we take it that God is of intelligence consciousness awareness beyond our grasp but there is a step down principal.
We are of exactly the same energy but its like comparing a 40 wat bulb with the sun.
We it would seem can manifest and the higher the spiritual vibration the faster we can manifest.
However those of a high vibration dont want the responsibility as creating for myself could have negative effects for others.
I am happy to let God be the sole creator He knows what He is doing.
You could say as Jesus did Ye are Gods--- yes but not to be confused with The Ultimate the Almighty..
Jesus did say did He not?--- You can do as I did and even more.

Chris

[HORIZONS]

But once you have the Son and have His eternal life abiding in you then you have been born of the Spirit and are a new creation being - and as such there is a whole new spiritual reality that is opened up to you, and you are much more than you were as a man of the earth.

1 John 4: 17 Herein is our love made perfect , that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he [Christ Jesus] is , so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment . He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

What is true of Christ is also true of all those in Christ - and whatever is true of the man of dust is also true of those who are in the man of dust. There is a spiritual-self and there is a natural-self -- which ever one you are in this is who you are. You are either in Adam or in Christ - this is the message of the Bible.

[RedeZra]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Jesus did say did He not?--- You can do as I did and even more.

Yes Chris through Jesus we can do what He does

and even more than He did when He walked the earth


without Jesus we can do nothing

unless we are possessed by one of His finite fallen spirits

who unfortunately fell away from Him


and wanted to be God themselves

[RedeZra]

Posted by HORIZONS (here)
You are either in Adam or in Christ

Yes this is poetry ; )


we are either in Adam or in Christ

the Man of Sin or the Son of God

[greybeard]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Jesus did say did He not?--- You can do as I did and even more.

Yes Chris through Jesus we can do what He does

and even more than He did when He walked the earth


without Jesus we can do nothing

unless we are possessed by one of His finite fallen spirits

who unfortunately fell away from Him


and wanted to be God themselves

Oh Red you dont get me, and you dont need to

Every breath I take is down to the Infinite God of Love--- the same applies to everyone.
Why do keep going on about fallen spirits?
Why not just keep focused on God/Jesus.
One simple thing--- one candle will light the darkest room---- just try and put out light with dark.There is no energy that can over come love for God.
Many non Christian have that devotion and love for God but you seem to see their devotion as of no account because that are not aligned to Jesus.
That is judgemental in the extreme.

Do you really think God would turn away some one at the gates of heaven who put God before Jesus?
After all Jesus put God before himself did he not?
Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within.

One school of though is that God became all of us so that He could experience all things.
In a singularity--- no subject object relationship experience is not possible--- hence time being we have duality.
You cant have compassion without suffering etc
So now we know compassion we dont need suffering.
We/ consciousness is evolving to know itself.

God became all of us and we are the hands feet and eyes of God.

I believe this chapter of the play is coming to an end, all the more reason to believe in a God of Love and not make Him feared, respected honoured but not feared.
There are only two emotions Love or fear.
Fear has a very low vibration and affects mind and body adversely ( thats a scientific fact)--- you could say it lowers spiritual vibration.
Love has a high measurable vibration-- you could say raises the vibration.
At this time it essential that fear is let go of and we raise our vibration by following the essence of the first two commandments--- what else is needed?
Fear not!!!!
Broken finger---- I am a one finger typist.
Chris

[crested-duck]

Attachment 17511---Those humans are so damn gullable that they fall for that religion story we told them thousands of years ago , every time, every day............those human clowns we created are really dumb as a herd of sheep!

[RedeZra]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Do you really think God would turn away some one at the gates of heaven who put God before Jesus?

it is not about what i think friend


"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' - Matthew 7:21-23


why do you think God is some other than Jesus ?

who knows the Father if not His Son ?

[RedeZra]

Posted by crested-duck (here)
Those humans are so damn gullable that they fall for that religion story we told them thousands of years ago , every time, every day............those human clowns we created are really dumb as a herd of sheep!

Jesus made the universe angels and humans


also angels have free will to do wrong

and abandon the authority of God


that is what we are dealing with


fallen angels and their human hybrids

against Jesus the rest of the angels and mankind


Jesus gave them 6000 years and then He would finish them



When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way.

And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?" - Matthew 8:28-29

[Derreck]

Hello all I just want to chime in for a few key points. I am not an expert and I only offer a brief synopsis of the 20 years I have spent in the Bible Belt here in the south. I was raised in a southern baptist enviroment so giving my heart to Jesus was required to get into heaven. Growing up I always had questions that would inevitably lead to one phrase...pray about it and God will help you find the answer. It is amazing how throughout life he has. I can understand Grip's point and the logical part of reincarnation is the only thing that makes sense. So for example, I recall asking my pastor @ age 11...if Adam and Eve were first and they had Cain and Able...who did Cain marry to have more children? If incest was not frowned own during man's creation when did God not approve of it? King James put a the bible in a format for many to read...did Jesus and God intend for him to leave books out as he did? When is the New New Testiment coming? All questions that no matter what answer as a christian you come up with the hard based line devout will simply revert it back to you have to have faith. That always set astray with me even when growing up...it was like when my mother told me because I said so.

The one thing that does tie it together is that the soul has actualy mass. The study of 21 grams doen on tuberculosis patients in the late 1800's showing that the human body upon experiation at the exact moment lost an specific amount of weight to equal exactly 21 grams. The human soul leaving the body. Being that the soul moves somewhere, that is something that leads each religion to explain. The universe does require a balance. So I can only offer that God is real and as far as being absent...I don't know if that was ever the intention but God is the reason that a Tree planted on earth will grow towards the sun...the adaptability factor was ingrained by God or the Voice of the Universe. As for Jesus, I find it sooo hard that I need to pray to him just to be closer to God. What does it matter that God gave a son? He was a son that God raised and sent of to school or had to deal with the rage of Uncle Buck touching him in the corner and if we are going to the imacculate conception then I have some magic beans for you. Immaculate conception is performed everday...it is called invetro. Was Jesus a person who taught love and died for his convictions...absolutely. To Grip's point that to be worshiped is against anything taught by God. Where is Jesus' soul? Oh its in heaven right, with all the other angels....tell that to those that grow up in Uganda that have never experienced internet to even hear this discussion or be educated enough to hold their own in the conversation.

[RedeZra]

i would love to say

we all go to Heaven

no matter what


but then i would have to answer to Jesus

why in hell did you not warn them


but God they treat me like a village idiot in front of a broke bridge

Well what did they do to Me ?

[greybeard]

Dear Red
The Bible is full of contradictions.
Scholars cant agree 35thousand different Christian religions all saying "We got it right the other branches which we broke away from got it wrong."
Having studied for thirty years the path of enlightenment I can say there is a uniformity throughout all the teachings, the direct experience of the enlightened is God is Love and Truth is non-duality.

With love
Chris

[RedeZra]

Posted by Derreck (here)
So for example, I recall asking my pastor @ age 11...if Adam and Eve were first and they had Cain and Able...who did Cain marry to have more children? If incest was not frowned own during man's creation when did God not approve of it?

dear Derreck


the Bible do not name all the children born

not to Adam and Eve and not to anybody


the Jewish historian Josephus wrote 2000 years ago that

"The number of Adam's children, as says the old tradition, was thirty-three sons and twenty-three daughters."


fresh from creation

the first humans did not have a problem with genetic entropy

which is the cause of the mutations in our genome

in other words our specie is devolving

so incest is no longer a viable option and has not been for a loong time

Posted by Derreck (here)
King James put a the bible in a format for many to read...did Jesus and God intend for him to leave books out as he did? When is the New New Testiment coming?

the Bible is a big book

there is nothing wrong in reading the books that did not make it into Canon

after all the Bible is just pointing to Jesus who is the New Covenant

between God and men

Posted by Derreck (here)
Being that the soul moves somewhere, that is something that leads each religion to explain.

the Bible got two whereabouts of the soul after death

Posted by Derreck (here)
As for Jesus, I find it sooo hard that I need to pray to him just to be closer to God. What does it matter that God gave a son?

Jesus has always been God together with His Father and the Holy spirit

[RedeZra]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Dear Red
The Bible is full of contradictions.
Scholars cant agree

i do not see any contradictions in the Book

but i see many denominations


besides the main message of the Bible is extremely simple

Jesus is God so seek Him and receive your crown of salvation

[Derreck]

That is the point exactly I have had decades to plague me. Jesus died to cover everyone's sins and yet those who believe in him after his death will be saved. So tell me...400 years after the death of christ...what happened to those souls that died before the word of Jesus came to their villiage, kingdom, town or isolated sea port. There is no clause in the Bible that said oh there will be a span of x years where everyone who dies will still be okay until the internet or a missionary comes to talk about the guy that saved the world. At what point to we read the Bible for what it is as a history of one of the greatest stories ever told. We are all sons of God...not just Jesus. Believe it or not you were put here to touch each others lives so that we can impact others...that is human nature. No other creature builds so much emotionally off of each other like our creator has made us. So love one another learn and seek the next level. Like Jesus we will all die and it will be from the decisions that we made. Even Jesus had free will too.

[HORIZONS]

Posted by Derreck (here)
That is the point exactly I have had decades to plague me. Jesus died to cover everyone's sins and yet those who believe in him after his death will be saved. So tell me...400 years after the death of christ...what happened to those souls that died before the word of Jesus came to their villiage, kingdom, town or isolated sea port. There is no clause in the Bible that said oh there will be a span of x years where everyone who dies will still be okay until the internet or a missionary comes to talk about the guy that saved the world. At what point to we read the Bible for what it is as a history of one of the greatest stories ever told. We are all sons of God...not just Jesus. Believe it or not you were put here to touch each others lives so that we can impact others...that is human nature. No other creature builds so much emotionally off of each other like our creator has made us. So love one another learn and seek the next level. Like Jesus we will all die and it will be from the decisions that we made. Even Jesus had free will too.

A little known verse may help to shed some light on your question: 1 Tim. 4: 9 "Faithful is this saying and deserving of universal acceptance: 10 and here is the motive of our toiling and wrestling, because we have our hopes fixed on the ever-living God, who is the Saviour of all mankind, and especially of believers."

[Fondoo]

Most of the Christians I know believe getting through this death and getting reborn in a heavenly realm all there problems will be solved.
I get this vision that I am one of those special chosen few, Im in Heaven! weeee!
Then one day god says Tracy you are my favorite Angel!
Can angels crap there pants?
Far as I have heard they have not transcended war in the heavenly realms and if falling can happen to Satan it sure could happen to me.
my biggest beef with the christian religion is the utter disrespect for other religions and a history of extreme bloodshed as a consequence.
Also the fact they tend to idol worship a book. funny thing when i got a more sophisticated world view of my seeking/evolution the first I did was start bashing Christians for there views. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. he he I think I am still a bit angry and embarrassed that Christianity is the religion of my culture and heritage.
The more I practice and study meditation and karma the more I see it was possible I could have worked for the church many lives thinking I was helping and serving God but in actuality I was serving the greed and delusions of my superiors.
I went born again in my youth until I discovered heaven was an exclusive club you had to no Jesus to get into. Higher voice/heart said bullsh*t!
Today I worship a noble heart.
I tend to think if Christians were ready for peace they would have gotten a Buddha. Since they are obviously not ready they have what they are ready for. I mean this on the whole and do not intend to make offense.
I live in Hawaii where christian missionaries came to do good but ended up doing well instead. Another case where we said you take our God and we take your language your culture and your land. We can do this because our book says we are right and you are wrong and of course because we have the bigger army.

[kreagle]

greybeard,

Do you really think God would turn away some one at the gates of heaven who put God before Jesus?After all Jesus put God before himself did he not?
Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within.

Chris,.....your comment is the "equivalent of saying",......".....putting greybeard before Chris. You see you cannot put "yourself......before yourself". In the "same line of thinking",....you cannot put....God before Jesus!

This comment, (or viewpoint), is something that is "very common" with those who are "still entrapped with a trinitarian concept of God". This is another "reason", out of many, why it is so vitally necessary to be "filled with the Holy Ghost", so that the Spirit can teach, and reveal, to you who He really is!

The passage of Scripture you are referring to is as follows.......


John 8:28
King James Version (KJV)

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.


When Jesus states that,....."I do nothing of myself",.....He is referring to the "fact" that "in His existence as a man, (flesh)",.......that it was impossible to accomplish the miraculous deeds that He did,...(in the flesh). It was going to require the "Father", (Divine nature), within Him to be able to achieve this level of success,....and to be able to "teach and speak these things". Also,...(as a "bonus"),.....we see in this passage that Jesus wisely advises us to "lift up the Son of man". If we will only do as He advises, and give this,....( "miniature tabernacle".....which "this body of flesh was"),....the proper glory that was due to Jesus, the Man,....that we would receive the ultimate revelation that,.....I am he!!!


Here's another "helpful" passage to further show us this.......


2 Corinthians 5:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


As verse 19, (above), so accurately points out,..."God was in Christ"!

I'm sad to say that "some" of the "newer versions" have grievously "changed" this wording to say "God was with Christ"! (note: I point this out to each of you so that you might see, "first hand", how the "satanic forces" have attempted,.....(and will continue),..... to "change and dilute" the Word of God, and Its meaning. Buyer beware!!)


No, God was, indeed, "in" Christ reconciling the world unto himself! God was "in this miniature tabernacle",......JUST LIKE......He was "in the larger tabernacle" spoken about in the Old Testament, originating with Moses and His people, Israel.

"Same God",......"different tabernacles",....."different times in history".


You see.........



Malachi 3:6
King James Version (KJV)

6 For I am the Lord, I change not;.......



And.........



Hebrews 13:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


Don't let the "concept of the trinity",...."manufactured by the Vatican", in 325 A.D.,......"fragment the Oneness of God", my friend(s)",......in your mind and soul.


Our God was "One,...only" to Israel,.....and He is the "same" to us!!!

Deuteronomy 6:4
King James Version (KJV)

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:


Love and Peace,...........kreagle

[greybeard]

Hi Kreagle

I dont have a problem with God being One at all.
I believe that God is the totality all of it. One without a second as stated by enlightened sages.

The statement that the Kingdom of Heaven is within is probably not the full story but my overall understanding is that Heaven is within all.
Not saying all find it but in the stillness that is possible.

What I have been saying in line with your recent post is If you pray to God then its exactly the same as praying to Jesus as the so called Trinity is God.
So those out with Christianity devoutly praying to God are loved as much as a Christian praying with devotion.
God does not need prayers but we benefit from praying immensely

You can see the problem with the Bible though, that non scholars have and even scholars do--- some say the Word is protected by God therefore cant be diluted.
Yet you are saying that it has been changed and I agree with you.

What posters here mainly have in common, is a desire for the Truth--- most see God as unconditional Love.

Regards Chris