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Thread: The Bible

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    a short conversation between God and a dead guy


    Hello did you receive My Son ?

    no i didn't know i was supposed to


    so what did you do with your life ?

    well pretty much what i wanted


    do you not know the ways of the world is not My way ?

    i thought it was all about me


    No it is all about My Son and His kingdom
    "Its all about me is ego"
    Im right your wrong is classic-- there has to be an enemy.
    Thats why removal of ego is important.
    The whole purpose of work on transcending ego is to let go of the me and my will.
    Letting go of ego is all about Thy will be done not mine.

    A lot of wars were fought in the name of God but they were really doing the bidding of the ego.
    I know the will of God and if your religion/belief is different from mine then I kill you, that was their belief.
    The Bible is open to misinterpretation.
    Scholars who have spent their whole lives deeply studying the word cant agree.
    Jesus was speaking to ordinary people with probably average intellect--- He kept it simple.
    Love and forgiveness thats it.


    The Moslem killed the Christian in the name of God--- the Christian did the same.
    Christians killed each other in the name of God--- my view is the only right one, those are all ego positions.

    Yet God gave the commandment Thou shalt not kill---- love they enemy.

    Thats simple.

    Religion makes an enemy out of other faiths and that includes other branches of the same faith.


    Love Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)

    "Its all about me is ego"

    it's not about me and not about you

    it is not about us

    but all about Christ our Creator


    we have no business but obeying Him who made us

    else we will end up with the devil

    who is the only warmonger

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    Default Re: The Bible






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  6. Link to Post #1364
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Guess what Im saying is that the Christian faith does not have a monopoly in loving God and surrendering to His will.
    Moslems are very much into the will of God but to name one other faith.
    Jesus said "In my Fathers House are many Mansions" --- Could it be that there are different Mansions for different faiths?

    Obviously you are guaranteed a place in Heaven because of Christian Baptism and the love of Jesus.
    In that case it would appear that I qualify under those terms also.
    It bothers me the insinuation that only Christians go to Heaven

    If there is only one incarnation then there is only one chance to get it right.

    So what about those who have no opportunity to know Jesus through no fault of their own?
    I believe everyone who accepts God into their life is Heaven bound
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 3rd July 2012 at 19:53.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  8. Link to Post #1365
    Avalon Member HORIZONS's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)

    "Its all about me is ego"

    it's not about me and not about you

    it is not about us

    but all about Christ our Creator


    we have no business but obeying Him who made us

    else we will end up with the devil

    who is the only warmonger
    Hey Red - you should study the - SAVIOR OF THE WORLD SERIES - by J. P. Eby. I think it would be good for you.
    Part 1 is http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW1.htm

    Quote GOD HAS A PLAN!

    AMONG all the questions that men have asked, there is one that is of supreme interest and importance. Why are we here? What is our destiny? What lies beyond the grave for the Christian, for the unbeliever? For old, for young? For our fellow citizens, and for the teeming masses in far-away lands serving strange gods? These questions were raised by one of the great poets of all times. I am speaking now of that American genius of letters, Edgar Allen Poe - an incomparable genius, and yet a man whose life was destroyed by unbelief. Millions of people have read his masterpiece, "The Raven," but few, I am afraid, have ever grasped the real spiritual significance of the struggle that was going on in the soul of this man. He asked four very significant questions - questions which every living soul, at one,' time or another, must raise to God. First, Is there a God who comforts? Is there a God who can assuage the pain of life? (In this case it is the poignant pain of the loss of a loved one, his beloved Lenore.) Is there "some water from the river of paradise, the water of Nephenthe," which can take away the heartache that is driving him insane? Secondly, he asks, Is there really a Christ? Does He live? Is there a balm in Gilead? Is there One who can smoothie the wrinkled brow and soften the hard heart? Thirdly, he asks, Is there some place, some heaven, some distant Eden or future world where we shall be joined again with our loved ones? And, finally, Is there any hope that the darkness and hopelessness and despair of this life will be lifted? But always he directs his questions to his own unbelief which is personified in that grim and ghastly raven, a picture of doubt and unbelief. A few years after writing those chilling words, Poe became insane. Regaining his sanity, he drank himself to death, and this genius was found dead in the gutter.
    Untold billions of human beings have lived and died without hearing the gospel of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. What has become of them? Is there no hope? For more than six thousand years generations of men, like the grass, have appeared and in a few fleeting years withered and vanished. Whence came those countless billions of human beings, and where do they go? This is the problem which has preoccupied the world's thought since the dawn of history. This is the question about which philosophers have theorized and theologians have dogmatized. Unquestionably the problem of the eternal destiny of mankind is the question of questions! It concerns every individual and touches everything of enduring interest. Life is a vapor that appears for a while and vanishes away. But there is a beyond! What is that beyond to be?
    God has a plan I Indeed, God has a wonderful plan for this world! It is a plan of which the architectural drawings were made in eternity. It encompasses the minutest detail of all of creation. I assure you that when time has run its course, and the veil is dropped upon the final scene, we shall discover that that plan has been worked out to its very tiniest detail, just as God had planned it in eternity - that His will has been done!

    That is an amazing thought because it often seems as if the world is flying off unattended, like a chariot where the driver has fallen off, the horses are running wild, the reins are flapping in the breeze, and it is threatening to go over the precipice at any moment. Yet the Scriptures would have us know that God, the sovereign Lord of history, has His hands firmly upon those reins and that His plan is coming to pass. Think about it! Our God is perfect in all His attributes. He is perfect in His power. He is perfect in His holiness and justice. He is perfect in His love and mercy. He is perfect in His wisdom and in His omniscience. Therefore, His plan must be perfect. Indeed it is a perfect plan!

    This is not to deny that the world is filled with many evils; that all about us we see that sin and evil and disease and death cling to man. It is not to shut our eyes to those realities, but it is to open our eyes to the realization that God sovereignly overwhelms all these things to bring about His own will. God has created this world. Even though Satan let chaos loose into the midst of the creation, God created Satan and God knew precisely what this angel of destruction would contribute. He knew of the chaos and the sin that would be introduced into the peaceful calm of those Elysium fields. Yet God created him anyway. God knew that with sin would come the perfect judgment of God upon that sin, which means sickness, death, judgment, disillusionment and decay. Yet, God ordained all these things so that He might overcome them for good.

    Central to the whole plan of God is Jesus Christ and His greater glory, but even more amazing is the realization that God has planned for us to share His glory and to work out for us our good as well. God has a perfect plan. My friends, I want you to understand one thing. This plan needs no human support! In Madrid, Spain, there exists the Escorial, one of the greatest cathedrals ever built by man. For centuries the kings of Spain have been buried there. When that magnificent structure was under construction, the architect designed a vast arch, perhaps bigger than anything that had been built before. However, that arch was so flat at the top that the reigning king was frightened by the prospect of the tremendous weight of the roof collapsing on his head. He commanded the architect to build a column from the floor all the way to the center of that arch to hold it up. The architect protested vehemently that it was not needed, but the king insisted and, over the laments of the architect, the column was built. The king worshipped contentedly in the vast structure, having seen to it himself that the ceiling would not fall. The years went by, the church stood, and the king finally died. Only then did the architect reveal that between the top of the column and the bottom of the arch there was a quarter of an inch of space. In all these hundreds of years that have passed the arch has not sunk so much as a quarter of an inch. Today a board is still passed over the column and under the arch for all to see. So it is with the plan of God - that over-arching plan that encompasses all of reality and all of life. It needs no human support to hold it up. God is the LORD OF ALL and He is working out His purposes in our lives, in all of the world, and through the whole universe.

    Read the words of that magnificent hymn: "God moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform; He plants the footsteps in the sea, And rides upon the storm." What a beautiful hymn! Many people may not know how William Cowper was brought to write that hymn. His life was in shambles. He was not a Christian. He was filled with despair and discouragement. In fact, so overcome with despair was he that he determined to take his life by taking poison. Instead of dying, he became deathly ill. He bought a gun and tried to shoot himself, but the gun would not go off. In great anger, he threw the gun away, got a rope and tried to hang himself. The rope broke. So then, in utter desperation, he hired a carriage in London and instructed the driver to take him to the Thames River. The driver could not find the Thames River! The fog had settled in so thickly on the town that even a London cabdriver got lost! After several hours he brought Cowper back to his apartment. He went up to his room, totally dismayed, and his eyes fell upon a Bible. He opened that Bible and began to read. He read of the love of a heavenly Father who loved even William Cowper. Astonished by the events that had just taken place, he read of the sovereign providence of God working all things after the counsel of His own will. He embraced Him as his Saviour and wrote the wonderful words of that great hymn.

    Perhaps I ought to state here for the benefit of some of my readers, that the idea that God HAS a plan may be to them a new one. According to the view of most Christians, God has no definite, prearranged plan, but is simply endeavoring to do the best He can through human instrumentality to repair the ruin that sin has made, and, though thus far the majority of the race have been overwhelmed in that ruin, yet in the end truth will triumph and sin will be confined in an eternal prison house.

    As some ignorantly misjudge the skill and wisdom of a great architect and builder by his unfinished work, so also many in their ignorance now misjudge God by His unfinished work; but by and by, when the rough scaffolding of sin, death, and redemption has been removed, and the rubbish cleared away, God's FINISHED WORK will universally declare His infinite wisdom and power; and His plans will be seen to be in harmony with His glorious character.

    Since God tells us that He has a definitely fixed purpose, and that all His purposes shall be accomplished, it behooves us, as His children, to inquire diligently what those plans are, that we may be found in harmony with them. Notice how emphatically the Lord affirms the fixedness of His purpose: "The Lord of hosts has sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand." "The Lord of hosts has purposed, and who shall disannul it?" "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me... My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure ... Yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it" (Isa. 14:24-27; 46:9-11). Therefore, however haphazard or mysterious God's dealings with men may appear, those who believe this testimony of His Word must acknowledge that His original and unalterable plan has been, and still is, progressing systematically to completion.

    When we think of a plan, we think of something involving more than just a single element. An architect's plan for a building consists of drawings and specifications descriptive of its several floors, including styles of plumbing, decoration, arrangement of rooms, etc. Unless each floor of the building is to be identical to every other floor, necessarily the drawings and specifications for any given floor do not harmonize with the details of the other floors. No one, however, would construe this to mean that the architect is incompetent, nor that his plans and specifications are contradictory. God's plan, like the plan of a building, is also made up of many parts. Instead of different floors, however, it embraces EPOCHS AND AGES. Through each of these ages the divine plan has steadily progressed toward completion. Only when it is complete, and mankind sees the result, will they all be able to appreciate the wisdom, justice, love and power of the Divine Architect. -Ps. 72:1-20

    [and continues from there]
    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

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    Avalon Member HORIZONS's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Part 2 begins thusly ~
    http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW2.htm

    Quote THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY

    Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever?
    How Men Are Saved
    The Law of Circularity

    WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER?

    Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator and Sustainer of ALL things and ALL people. He either does or allows everything that is done in heaven or on earth. If one hundred billion helpless human beings are being tortured, then Jesus is doing it. Satan has brought suffering and death to the whole human race. However, if eternal torment IS TRUE, then Jesus Christ will torture forever the whole human race, except the small handful who will be saved. In one hour, in a hot searing hell, our Lord will inflict more pain and agony on each person than Satan inflicted on that person during his entire life.

    If this torture lasts throughout eternity, then each unsaved person will suffer more than all the suffering of all the people that ever lived on earth. Think of it! Billions have suffered horrible pain for hours, days, weeks, months, and years, during the time they were alive. And yet, after they die, EVERY unsaved person will suffer more agony than all the suffering of the whole race PUT TOGETHER from Adam until now. This is so horrible, so frightful, that it is difficult for our minds to grasp. Except Satan himself, Pharaoh, Nero, and Hitler were among the most horrible killers of men this world has ever known. Yet, the doctrine of eternal torture makes Jesus a million times more vicious and vindictive than these three put together. You see, these brutal murderers killed their victims. Death brought sweet relief in a moment of time. However, that Man of Galilee, that Man whom we love, praise, and worship, that Man who taught that we should forgive four hundred and ninety times a day, that Man who told us that we should love our enemies and bless them that curse us, that Man who died for all men, will never, never forgive ANYONE who has rejected Him in this frail life, or, worse yet, who merely failed to believe on Him during this brief time. Instead of torturing them for a season and then ending their suffering with death, He will torture them through all eternity.

    Even the hardest, cruelest, most brutal men cannot torture their fellow men for more than two or three hours without growing weak, faint, and sick (see Fox Book of Martyrs). However, Christian leaders teach that our Lord will torture His victims through endless ages. The Scripture reveals that Christ Jesus is the kindest, the most tender-hearted and merciful Person this world has ever known. His mercy endures forever, or to all generations of time. The doctrine of eternal torment pictures Him to be the most horrible monster, the most beastly, brutal, cruel, vicious Person this world has ever known. The governments of this world, ruled by unregenerated men, put their rebels in prisons, and the very worst offenders they put to death. But our Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator and Redeemer of the world, will mercilessly torture those who offend Him to the most hideous and incomprehensible degree. Surely, this pagan and Romish doctrine of eternal torture does NOT glorify HIM!

    One of the theologians of the Church of England (Jeremy Taylor) speaks of the fate of the wicked in the following terms: "In hell every sense and organ shall be assailed forever with its own appropriate and most exquisite sufferings. We are amazed at the inhumanity of Phalaris who roasted men in his brazen bull, but THAT WAS A JOY IN COMPARISON WITH HELL." And here is what the renowned evangelist, C. H. Spurgeon, said on the same subject: "There is real fire in hell. The body shall be suffused with agony; your head tormented with racking pains; your eyes starting from their sockets; your ears tortured with horrid sounds; your pulse rattling with anguish; your limbs crackling in the flame; every vein a pathway for the fire to tread; every nerve a string on which the devil shall forever play the diabolical tune of hell's unutterable lament."

    If it were true, it is so awful that it should never be spoken without tears and a broken heart. How does the mother of a murderer speak of the corning execution of her boy? Yet the prospect to her is only one of time, and in the limits of the physical. If the people believe it, then their attitude about the whole thing reveals that they could care less if the creation burns forever. The fact is, NO ONE really believes in an eternal burning hell if we are to judge by their actions. If they saw a person in a burning building, they would put forth every effort to save them; they would cry and scream for help; they would be late for work; they would not rest until the victims were rescued. Yet, those who teach eternal torment can spend their hours relaxing in front of the television screen, visiting and feasting upon rich dainties with their friends, and whole days in camping, vacationing, fishing, and playing, and then lay their heads upon a pillow every night and sleep soundly, while, according to their own teaching, countless millions are going to a place a million times worse than a burning building!

    If they believed what they teach, they would never cease, day and night until they dropped, and others came to take their places, in their efforts to save men from such a place! They excuse themselves by saying, "All we can do is warn." But if they were standing before a burning building would they preach a thirty-minute sermon, then turn and walk away, saying, "All we can do is warn!" And how many do they meet day after day, and never mention their danger? Ah, precious friend of mine, if my concept of hell were what modern Christendom's is, then it is my conviction that I would not be able to wait for God to send me to preach the Gospel! I would have to spend my every wakened hour pleading, working, struggling, fighting to save men from such a fate. I would be compelled to spend hours upon hours in the chronic wards of hospitals, in rest homes, with the elderly and those working on dangerous jobs, begging men to repent and turn to Jesus before they die. And I am convinced that anyone with the love of God in his heart would do the same IF HE REALLY BELIEVED the fables that are being taught today about hell. I will say this, either those who teach eternal torture are EXTREMELY CALLOUSED or they do not believe what they teach!

    George Hawtin has so aptly written: "Is it any wonder that in the face of such sadistic humbug there has been a wholesale manufacture of infidels? All these statements (by eternal hell-fire preachers) may be a show of oratorical eloquence, but they are nothing more. They hold no part of truth. They deny every attribute of God. They make wisdom foolishness, turn eternal love into exasperated hate, make omnipotence helplessness, and make the justice of God the grossest injustice in the universe. To say that I believe in such repugnance would be a lie of the first order. I do not believe it because it is contrary to the nature of God. It is contrary to the love of God. It is contrary to the justice of God. It is contrary to the power of God. It is contrary to the Word of God and it puts God in the ridiculous position of being the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords yet having dominion a vast pocket of hate and resistance that even He cannot overcome. Further than this it makes the mighty sacrifice of Christ that was made for all the world to be almost impotent in its power and scope. Worst of all, it frustrates the purpose of God laid down in the beginning when He said, 'Let us make man in our image and after our likeness.' Some will immediately ask me whether I do not believe in hell. My answer is very definite on this point. I most certainly DO BELIEVE in hell, but the hell of the Bible and the hell of human tradition are not the same thing at all. The hell of tradition is hopeless and eternal, while the hell of the Scripture like every judgment of God is corrective, remedial, and restorative." -end quote.

    I do not like to differ, even in minor things, from those whom I esteem for their devotion to Christ and their valuable service in the cause of His Kingdom. But in the immortal words of the great Martin Luther, "Here I stand - I can do no other. So help me God!" Long centuries ago the faithful apostle Peter penned these inspired words, "Who by the power of God are kept through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (I Pet. 1:5). My conviction before God is that the extent of the salvation of Jesus, the Christ, our Lord, is to be known only in the last time. Jesus Himself said to His disciples, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now." But He said when the Holy Spirit should come, He would lead his people step by step - patiently lead them into the way of All Truth; so that when the last time (end of the age) came, the full revelation of that salvation would be made. I believe that I am writing in the last time. Writings of this kind do not endear the hearts of many people. I fear that enemies are made instead. Every time a truth is spoken, many become offended and many are filled with wrath. People always astonish me. It is never possible to know what attitude they will take under any given circumstance. They will believe and trust you and feed from your table, and for many years, only to become suddenly offended because of some point upon which they disagree, and often become hostile and sometimes even vicious, calling you a heretic and a false prophet, cutting you off from an fellowship and spiritual communication, and warning other saints near and far not to have anything to do with you.

    I am also perfectly aware that these profound truths will be misapplied by another class, and some will twist and wrest them to their own destruction in their carnal and wicked endeavor to set aside all repentance of sin and annul all holiness of life, as some men in their zeal to display the grace of God have done, ridiculously living in sin and turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 4). These beautiful truths are not now written to men of corrupt minds who have no desire to walk in the Spirit, but to all who walk in the whole counsel of God, serving God because they love and know Him and not in fear of some dreadful judgment that hangs like a horrible terror before their eyes. I do not address those who would pervert the right ways of the Lord, using God's gracious plan and His great mercy as an excuse for careless living or unconcern for lost men, but to those children of the Most High God who, seeing their infinite identity in Christ, are consumed with the holy passion of becoming the very instrument of God to fight the good fight of faith, destroying sin and death and hell, and bringing all men back into the loving embrace of their God and Redeemer. So be it!

    I recognize that there will be some still unanswered questions in some minds, but there is neither time to write nor finances to print a treatise dealing with every small point. How can we put the ocean of eternal truth into the limited pages of one small book? If God will have all men to be saved, and the Scripture is very clear on this point, then there must be a way by which this truth falls into perfect harmony with every other Scripture which seems to teach otherwise. We do ourselves much injury when we seize upon every Scripture which proclaims the salvation of all men, but carefully avoid all Scripture which speaks of the fearful judgment of the wicked. Yet even greater harm is done when people insist upon taking the other point of view, as almost the entire Church system has done for centuries, emphasizing only those Scriptures which seem to teach the unending doom of those unfortunate creatures who never once heard that God had a Son and skillfully avoiding every direct statement of Scripture which indicates that God has reconciled all things to Himself, and that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to God of things in heaven and things in earth and under the earth. There is always a place of harmony if we look for it, and it is not usually difficult to find. Otherwise we will be forced onto that untenable ground of having to say that the Bible contradicts itself - which, of course, it never does. Whenever you find two Scriptures that seem to set forth conflicting views, there is always a simple explanation, and, if we will diligently inquire of the Lord, He will give us a definite answer. Human understanding is almost always prone to seize upon one side of a statement and will cling to that with the grip of death, refusing to even investigate or seek the wisdom of God to harmonize the truth. Worldly wise men are forever saying that the Bible contradicts itself.

    I have never believed that by teaching the ultimate salvation of all men we were pitting one group of Scriptures against another, for it is my conviction that the solution can only be found in the correct HARMONIZATION of all the Scriptures, not ignoring one group while advancing the other. I believe I speak by the Spirit of God when I assert that the only sensible harmonization of all the Scriptures lies in the fact that Jesus is indeed THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, that He is in very fact THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, and that HE WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED and come to the knowledge of the truth, DRAWING ALL MEN UNTO HIMSELF. To me this is a most glorious and wonderful fact! I find all the judgments of God to be correctional and disciplinary rather than vindictive and final. Therein lies the harmonization of which I speak. This leaves us free to believe ALL of God's Word. It magnifies the cross. It glorifies God. It honors the atonement. It gives meaning to the ministry of the Sons of God. It gives purpose to the ages yet to come, all planned and arranged beforehand by our wonderful Creator. Sin, judgment, and death are temporary, all to be dealt with by the mighty power of God invested in His saints. The entire universe will be reconciled to God through the blood of Christ's cross. God will become All-in-All. Here is a God worthy of your worship and adoration!

    Several brethren have written or discussed this subject with me through the years, adamant against the truth I see. But their arguments are shallow and twisted and their spirits generally harsh against men whom God loves and for whom the Christ died, as though they wanted to make CERTAIN that everybody gets every thing they "deserve." Their theology is lopsided, distorted, out of balance, and it will be smashed in the end! Those who walk in that attitude know but little of the love of Him who is at the same time the JUDGE OF ALL and the SAVIOUR OF ALL. He is not the Judge of some and the Saviour of some, but both Judge and Saviour of ALL! If "Judge of ALL" means that He judges all, then "Saviour of ALL" must mean that He saves all, for the Scriptures plainly make both statements. Within that one fact again can be seen the HARMONIZATION of the justice and the love of God - His judgment leading to repentance and a knowledge of His mercy. Praise His wonderful name!

    [and continues from there]
    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Guess what Im saying is that the Christian faith does not have a monopoly in loving God and surrendering to His will.

    It bothers me the insinuation that only Christians go to Heaven
    Christians do not go to Heaven nor Muslims or Hindus not even Buddhists

    religion is not the ticket


    it is impossible to enter the Kingdom of God if not for God letting us in

    so we are back at Who is God ?


    and what the requirements are for acceptance and admittance into Heaven

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by HORIZONS (here)

    God is LOVE not hate

    i agree

    and if we do the work of the devil

    we will reap his reward

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    Avalon Member HORIZONS's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    The works of the devil were destroyed in the resurrection. Unbelief is the only thing holding people back from God, and that will be removed too.
    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by HORIZONS (here)
    The works of the devil were destroyed in the resurrection. Unbelief is the only thing holding people back from God, and that will be removed too.
    well what is the works of the devil

    is it not his religious lies or doctrines ?

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    Default Re: The Bible

    There is an idiom in the bible about suffering eternally, and it is not burning in hell. The imagery is in:

    Psa 37:1 A Psalm of David. Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
    Psa 37:2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
    Psa 37:3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
    Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
    Psa 37:5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
    Psa 37:6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
    Psa 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
    Psa 37:8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
    Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
    Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

    Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
    Psa 37:12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
    Psa 37:13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
    Psa 37:14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
    Psa 37:15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.
    Psa 37:16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
    Psa 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
    Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
    Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
    Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
    Psa 37:21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
    Psa 37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
    Psa 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
    Psa 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
    Psa 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
    Psa 37:26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
    Psa 37:27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
    Psa 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
    Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
    Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
    Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
    Psa 37:32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
    Psa 37:33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
    Psa 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
    Psa 37:35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
    Psa 37:36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
    Psa 37:37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
    Psa 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
    Psa 37:39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
    Psa 37:40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.

    This particular line is the image of it being an eternal judgment, but it does not mean eternal suffering:

    Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

    Picture the fat dropping and hitting a hot coal. It turns to smoke immediately and the smoke rises forever. It's a complete action. They are destroyed and never to return. Just as Satan has already been judged and is the only one judged presently completely to turn to ashes from within:

    Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

    We see two things here. He is judged and HE will be the one on earth and all shall see him, and in the millenium they will be astonished as they look into the pit and wonder that he caused so much trouble:

    Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

    Then at the end of the millenium he will be loosed for a season again, and man will decide whom they shall love and follow, and then there will be the great judgment. The one factor that is different in the millenium (Day of the Lord) is that all men will know the truth and no one will need to be taught the truth. It will be completely about obedience.

    Revelation tells us about that event:

    Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Wow, that seems to say there is torment forever and ever, but how could we enjoy heaven hearing the screams and agony of our loved ones and the fallen angels forever? Fear not, it's again the idomatic thought. Let's continue:


    We know our God is a consuming fire.

    Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

    We come to understand that all things will be made new, and the old is done and finished:


    Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    When Hell and death are put in the lake of fire, who do you think that lake of fire is? The purpose of this age will have been completed. This age is for us to learn and mature spiritually so we will not be as spiritual babies, but mature souls. All those who have chosen to walk in love having experienced the myriad of things that temper the soul which we thus learn mercy, love, patience, kindness to be in a true relationship with the creator have no more use of this 3d experience. There is no everlasting torment. The lake of fire consumes all, and as God is a consuming fire and all things come from God, he can easily reabsorb all that was, and we won't even have a remembrance of those lost.

    Life after the Millenium:

    Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.







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    Avalon Member HORIZONS's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Compelling scriptures US, but it could be said that it is everything of Adam - the natural self - is what is destroyed, so that everything of the Christ - the spiritual Self - will be made complete. The two seeds, wheat and tares, planted in the field - hello field, you are God's garden - grow until the end of the age, then the harvest takes place. That which is of God - Christ - is brought into the Kingdom and that which is of the Adversary is destroyed. But all this takes place within us - in our own consciousness - in this realm of duality.

    Here are a few scriptures to consider as well:


    112 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY AND THE SALVATION OF ALL
    (Scriptures compiled by Elwin R. Roach)

    (Old Testament listings)

    1) Is 46:10.............God will do ALL His pleasure
    2) Dan 4:35...........God's will done in heaven & earth, none can stop Him
    3) Prov 16:9...........Man devises, but God directs his steps
    4) Prov 19:21.........Man devises, but God's counsel stands
    5) Prov 16:33.........THE WHOLE DISPOSING thereof is of the Lord
    6) Ps 37:23............The steps of man are ordered of God
    7) Psa 33:10.....The LORD brings the counsel & devices of the heathen & the people to nought
    8) Ps 33:15...........God fashions ALL hearts
    9) Job 5:1718.......God wounds then He makes whole
    10) Hos 6:12........God tears, but in the third day He heals
    11) Deut 32:39......God kills & makes alive, He wounds but then heals
    12) Ps 90:3............God turns man to destruction, then says return
    13) Jer 18:26........God mars vessels & then remakes them
    14) Lam 3:3132…..God will not cast off forever
    15) Ps 102:1820….God will loosen those appointed to death
    16) Is 2:2...............ALL nations will flow to the Lord's house
    17) Joel 3:21.........God will cleanse blood not cleansed
    18) Gen 18:18.......ALL families of the earth will be blessed
    19) Is 45:22..........ALL the earth commanded to look and be saved
    20) Is 45:23..........Unto God ALL will bow & every tongue swear
    21) Is 40:35.........Highway of God enables ALL flesh to see His glory
    22) Ps 138:4.........ALL kings will praise God
    23) Ps 72:17.........ALL nations will call Him blessed
    24) Ps 86:9...........ALL nations will worship God & ALL men blessed
    25) Is 52:10..........ALL earth will see the salvation of God
    26) Ps 65:24........ALL flesh will come to God
    27) Is 11:9.............The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
    28) Ps 66:34.........Enemies will submit & ALL earth will worship
    29) Is 19:1425......Egypt & Assyria will be restored
    30) Ezek 16:55.......Sodom will be restored
    31) Ps 68:18...........God will lead (all) captivity captive to dwell in man
    32) Is 54:5..............He will be called the God of THE WHOLE EARTH
    33) Ps 22:2529......ALL will remember & turn unto the Lord
    34) Ps 145:910......God is good to ALL & merciful to His works
    35) Ps 145:14.........Raises ALL that fall & ALL that be bowed down
    36) Ps 145:15.........Eyes of ALL wait upon God & He will and gives them meat in due season
    37) Ps 145:16.........Will satisfy desire of ALL living
    38) Ps 145:9...........The Lord is good to ALL
    39) Ps 145:10.....ALL Thy works shall praise thee
    40) Ps 24:1...The Earth is the Lord's and the FULNESS thereof, and they who dwell therein
    41) Is 25:6..............The Lord will make unto ALL people a feast
    42) Is 25:7..............He will destroy the veil that's cast over ALL
    43) Is 25:8..............He will swallow up death (ALL death) in victory
    44) Is 25:8..............He will wipe away tears from ALL faces
    45) Jer 32:35 ....It never entered His mind to pass sons & daughters through the fire of Molech
    46) Ps 135:6..The Lord did what pleased Him in heaven, earth, & the sea
    47) Is 26:9...When God's judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants will learn righteousness
    48) Is 53:1......He shall see of the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied.
    49) Gen 12:3..........All families of the earth shall be blessed.


    112 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY AND THE SALVATION OF ALL
    (New Testament listings)

    1) Eph 1:11..........God works ALL things after counsel of His will
    2) Jn 8:29.............Jesus ALWAYS does which pleases His Father
    3) I Tim 2:4.........God will have ALL to be saved
    4) I Jn 4:14..........Jesus sent to be the Saviour of the world
    5) Jn 4:34............Jesus to do the will of God who sent Him
    6) Jn 12:47..........Jesus came to save ALL
    7) I Tim 2:6.........Jesus gave Himself a ransom for ALL
    8) Jn 5:36 ...........He will finish the works He was sent to do
    9) Jn 4:42............Jesus is the Saviour of the world
    10) Jn 12:32.........Jesus will draw ALL to Himself
    11) Heb 7:25........Jesus is able to save to the uttermost
    12) Col 1:15.........Jesus the first born of ALL creation
    13) Col 1:16.........By Him ALL things were created
    14) Rm 5:1521....In Adam ALL condemned, in Christ ALL live
    15) I Cor 15:22....In Adam ALL die, in Christ ALL live
    16) Eph 1:10........ALL come into Him at the fulness of times
    17) I Cor 15:26....Death, the last enemy, will be destroyed
    18) Phil 2:911.....EVERY TONGUE shall confess Jesus is Lord
    19) I Cor 12:3......Cannot confess except by THE HOLY SPIRIT
    20) Rm 11:26.......ALL Israel will be saved
    21) Act 3:2021....Restitution (Reconstitution) of ALL
    22) Lk 2:10...........Jesus will be the joy to ALL people
    23) Eph 2:7...........His grace to be shown in the ages to come
    24) Heb 8:1112...ALL will know God
    25) Lk 3:6.............ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God
    26) Titus 2:11.......Grace has appeared to ALL
    27) Rm 8:1921....Creation freed from corruption
    28) Col 1:20..........ALL reconciled unto God
    29) I Cor 4:5..........ALL will have praise of God
    30) James 5:11..........End of the Lord is full of mercy
    31) Rev 15:4..........ALL Nations worship when judgments seen
    32) II Cor 5:17.......ALL becomes a new creation in Christ (Eph 1:10)
    33) Rm 11:32.........ALL subjected to unbelief, mercy on ALL
    34) Rm 11:36.........ALL out of God, thru Him, and into Him
    35) Eph 4:10...........Jesus will fill ALL things
    36) Rev 5:13...........ALL creation seen praising God
    37) I Cor 15:28.......God will be ALL in ALL
    38) Rev 21:45........No more tears, ALL things made new
    39) Jn 5:25..............ALL dead who hear will live
    40) Jn 5:28..............ALL in the grave will hear & come forth
    41) Jn 6:39.............And this is the Father's will that...I should lose nothing
    43) I Cor 3:15.........ALL saved, yet so as by fire
    44) Mk 9:49...........Everyone shall be salted with fire
    45) II Cor 5:15........Jesus died for ALL
    46) I Jn 2:2..............Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world
    47) Rm 11:15..........Reconciliation of the world
    48) Heb 2:2.............He is the heir of ALL things
    49) Jn 3:35..............ALL has been given into His hand
    50) Jn 17:2..............Jesus will give eternal life to ALL that His Father gives Him
    51) Jn 6:4445.........ALL to be taught of God and will come
    52) I Tim 4:911......Jesus is the Saviour of ALL
    53) Acts 13:47.........Salvation unto the ends of the earth
    54) Gal 3:8 ...............All nations shall be blessed.
    55) Mt 18:11 ............. For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost 
56) Mt 18:14 ............. Not the will of your Father...that one of these...should perish (rf. 1)
57) Jn 1:29 ............... Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of THE WORLD
58) Jn 1:7 .................. That ALL through him *might believe (The word ίσως  for *might is omitted in the Greek text.)
59) Jn 3:17 ................ That THE WORLD through him *might be saved. (The word ίσως  for *might is omitted in the Greek text.)
60) Jn 6:51................. The bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of THE WORLD
61) Col 1:28 .............. That we may present EVERY MAN perfect in Christ Jesus 
62) 2 Ptr 3:9 ............. The Lord is...not willing that ANY should perish (rf. 1 & 2)
63) 1 Jn 2:2............... And he is the propitiation...for the WHOLE WORLD

    Note: None of the scriptures will mean a thing to those who are not willing to concede to the truth, regardless of what it is. Granted, some of these scriptures may seem not to be in total context of the subject matter, but looking at the whole picture they will in fact support the thought very well. In order to get a complete and balanced view of GOD’S SALVATION OF ALL, we suggest searching out all the scriptures (preferably in the Hebrew & Greek) concerning the wicked being eternally judged, condemned, destroyed, etc. No doubt, there will seem to be conflicting verses, and it may involve many soul searching hours, but continue on with a genuine desire to know the truth, and with dedication and prayer until the Spirit of Christ settles it firmly in your spirit with immutable clarity.
    We rejoice In the light of the above scriptures, however, never forsake the truth of God’s judgments upon man’s rebellion, for men must stand accountable for their thoughts, words, and deeds. But it is clear that God’s judgments and man’s torment are not forever. There is an end to both, else His pleasures would be frustrated and never be seen throughout all eternity. Let every soul know that God has always had a wonderful plan for all. Moreover, no one and no thing can hinder it, and He will fulfill it according to His good pleasure.
    Now, the test for those who do not embrace the truth of this matter, and they say if it is in the Bible—they will believe and teach it. The above are 112 verses are in the Bible. So what about it? Do they believe it? If so—will they teach it, and with joy share it to any and all? To bring this forth will cost something; but that is often the price for truth. The Valley of Decision is a hard place; but hopefully they don’t abide there long, break the ties of tradition lest they reason their way back to the well-beaten path of viewing God in man’s image of being eternally feeble and uncaring after people have died.
    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

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    Default Re: The Bible

    That fact is there are 3 ages spoken of in the bible. The age that was (before the fall of Lucifer), the age that is (current age), and the age that is to come (post Millenium). There is a reason for all 3, and had the fall not happened then we would not be here to learn truth and love so we would be fit partners in the next age.

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by HORIZONS (here)
    In order to get a complete and balanced view of GOD’S SALVATION OF ALL, we suggest searching out all the scriptures (preferably in the Hebrew & Greek) concerning the wicked being eternally judged, condemned, destroyed, etc.

    there is Salvation of all

    if all give God a chance


    God has done His part

    and now it is up to us


    Salvation is simple

    eternal life easy


    nobody needs to go to hell

    still hell enlarges herself


    nations are marching to the pit
    Last edited by RedeZra; 4th July 2012 at 05:58.

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Christ our Creator on the Cross

    Spirit Salvation Victory


    Last edited by RedeZra; 4th July 2012 at 06:06.

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    Default Re: The Bible

    the Living Word and His written words

    are competing with a thousand theories


    so we really need to keep a cool head here

    or it will be hot later

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    Default Re: The Bible

    What is Bible ?

    It is but a dead word on paper, when people care about whatever they care.
    It's worthless if people do not pay attention to it.

    Ah people... ever willing to twist and play with whatever they touch.
    So when they touch Bible they twist it and claim it means certain things.
    But then you get another group of people who claims another... and then we have quarreling groups while life...passes by.

    This still shows that collectively we are not grown into Christ.
    Alas for written words in any deed and in here spoken Bible when no one pays attention .

    It takes courage and fearless attitude to live like Christ did.
    He didn't needed to read Bible daily or to be present to festivals and such.
    He chose when and where he would read or be present.

    Why, well simply he owned Bible , he owned knowledge thus wasn't in need for any written law.
    He knew God personaly.

    How many of us does today?
    This is the strive we aught to do, to know God with all our hearts,souls ,strengths,minds.

    Knowing God in every level.

    This is Christ's message.
    Know God and love God thus you will love yourself.
    Love, love - and see what happens

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    Default Re: The Bible

    the Word of God wrote the words

    written in the Bible


    but it was not the Bible that was crucified on the Cross

    and so the Book will not save us


    the devil is an expert scholar of Scripture

    but he doesn't have the Holy spirit


    and so he can't unravel the deep levels of the bible

    but more than that he can't be saved


    no Holy spirit no salvation

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    Default Re: The Bible

    "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, [that is], the Son of Man who is in heaven.

    "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,

    "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

    "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

    "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - John 3:13-19




    God told Moses to make a snake of brass which would supernaturally heal the Israelites bitten by snakes in the wilderness walk

    just by looking at it


    the same supernatural power of God heals us from the sting of sin

    just by coming to the Cross
    Last edited by RedeZra; 5th July 2012 at 06:24.

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