CON BUSTERS! A thread to find a consensus of what Avalonians DO find plausible

[Ultima Thule]

When reading Bordens Con artists-thread and what he also validly questioned in Bob Dean thread, I thought of a "spin off" from the Con artists -thread.

Mission statement for this thread:
As a student as well as a teacher I´ve for ages felt and seen the difficulty in open discussion when it comes to groups of people. I teach alternative medicine and every time I ask a question from the students - even an opinion, I can see many people not daring to take the chance and try, in fear of being ridiculed or just simply being wrong. Off course that is mostly their own fear and has nothing to do with actual propability of that happening. At the same time it is of the utmost importance for the teaching experience and results to get an ongoing discussion going with rights and wrongs all mixed in. I feel in Avalon we could use some cat out of the bag-open discussion.

What I felt could be possible after reading Bordens thread, is that there could exist a thread where peoples opinions about history, society, tptb, ET, spirituality, reincarnation etc. could be presented in a neutral way. Seeing that openly might encourage people to state their opinions and POINT OF VIEWS and then in time we could see a synthesis forming - creating something that is in general accepted among Avalonians and perhaps discerning most probable truths This would serve both the community as well the individuals when they actually write down what do they believe in and therefore clarifying it to themselves.

In the spirit of Bordens Con artists, I would hope for you to relate what you do "buy" to known whistleblowers or lecturers, so that you mention who you DO buy and not mention who you DON´T buy. That way there is (hopefully) no risk of insulting anyone(not-mentioning someone is probably not an offense!)

I´ll give you an example of a post that I personally could post, to give you an idea of what I would view as a possible format of personal POV-output:

Juhas POV in a nuthsell:

History:
- I accept reincarnation as a fact, although think that the lives are more simultaneous than chronological, we are just "stuck" in this place in time
- I accept humanity being guided or effected upon in the past by some form of extraterrestrial entities or alternatively a highly evolved earth-based civilization that later has left the building - Lemuria, Atlantis etc
- I accept that some of us living nowadays have had something to do in our previous incarnations with Atlantis or Lemuria. I can accept Graham Hancocks studies about these matters as a good and reliable concept in general of proving scientifically the existence of much older civilizations that are accepted in mainstream
- I deem it possible that many of us(if not all) are souls derived from other places in universe, might be wrong about this one
- I accept also much of David Wilcocks studies as a good all-round representation of humankind's history and human capabilities, especially in his newest book
- I acknowledge that humanity has for ages been under the control and deliberate devolution attempts of malignant agenda, some form of the so called TPTB, in many ways I can see eye to eye with Jordan Maxwells view on it, especially when it comes to church and religions being absolutely used as tools
- I accept that the former TPTB have deliberously prevented some amazing breakthroughs of science energy vise for example to ever see daylight, TESLA etc.
- I can accept as most likely events the reverse-engineering of crashed ET-crafts from Roswell etc., resulting in much more highly evolved technology to exist in limited hands in earth. Probably the so called military-industrial complex being one of the major players in that field
- I am inclined to believe most of what Bob Dean for example has to say about what is going on behind the scenes as well as what Jordan Maxwell has stated has been going on in his life in relation to extraterrestrials. I find it a bit overwhelming though.
- I also can believe many things what Henry Deacon has had to say about the matter from decades of work in black ops community.
- I can accept that there has been an extensive black op -genre going on, for example Duncan O´Finioan I can see as a genuine whistleblower on that matter - although I am sitting on a fence as to the limit of what he has actually been able to do when forced into the ops, I am not sure whether it is plausible that he and other kids directed energy in a lethal way in Vietnam war as stated in one of his vids. I don´t know what is possible.
- I accept different frequencies of consciousness and beings and that they can be contacted and that there are also beings that you don´t wan´t to contact
- I am open to angels, archangels and ascended masters etc., but am not quite sure what is their relation and if there is a relation between them and extraterrestrial civilizations?
- I am totally on the fence in regards to Galactic federations, Salusa, Sheldan Nidle etc., I have no way to figure out whether they are disinformation or what is correct in their channelings and in general what is a "credible" source of channeling?
- I am not quite sure what is the role of 2012, because opinions are scattered from earth changing direction of rotation, resulting in crust displacement and complete mayhem to immediate ascension to higher dimension and from ET:s flying in to rescue and lifting people up to their ships all the way to ETs making open mass landings. Also this could be a false flag thing or even absolutely nothing might happen. Perhaps I am inclined to believe in gradual transformation of humanity and society that in hindsight might look like instantaneous. I am open to sudden changes in DNA due to universal energy, as outlined theoretically in David Wilcocks books and videos.

Health:
- I am totally accepting of the role of energy in physiological health and how emotional, mental and spiritual aspects all effect what is finalized in ones physical body
- I feel that at best western medicine is life-saving and absolutely genius but at the same time feel that this global institution of 99% well-meaning human beings has been hi-jacked by a form of tptb that could in this relation be referred to as "big pharma" and it has injected its agenda into the system which I believe not to be benign at all towards humanity.
- I see tptb having injected their agenda into religion, health and nutrition to gain control of humanity

The way things, universe and everything works:
- I accept geometry to have profound effect in the structure and working of universe, I find Drunvalo Melchizedeks books about The Flower of Life as in general good representations or introductions to geometrical matters.
- in addition to the previous I feel quite strongly in agreement with Nassim Harameins view of how energy is organized in the universe, it makes total sense to me.

Conclusion:
- I also have to admit that it is possible that I have been had every step of the way and all I believe in is an elaborate construct of the matrix so to speak, designed to occupy the minds of the people on the brink of awakening, thus preventing them from it.

You can update your post at later times when you remember more or when your opinions evolve.

I´ll give this a spin, let´s see whether this thing catches wind.

Juha

UPDATE!!!
I was hoping for you to lay out people that you DO BUY and find plausible, but due to requests this thread is now also open for BUSTING.

I DO REQUIRE POSITIVE INSIGHTS AND COMMENTS TO BE OF PRIORITY AND THE "BUSTING" OF A LECTURER OR A WHISTLEBLOWER TO TAKE PLACE IN A NEUTRAL, MATTER-O-FACTLY MANNER, WITH PERHAPS A BRIEF NEUTRAL COMMENT TO WHAT EXACTLY IT IS THAT YOU FIND DUBIOUS OR NOT TRUE.

Juha

ps. I also thought that I´d add here the names of people other people in this thread consider whom I have not mentioned in my post.

Plausible figures that have come up in the thread:
An individual "earns" APPLE©-rankings, when their name comes up several times as a plausible figure. And the more they come up, the more APPLE©-rankings they get!

- Bill Ryan
- Bob Dean
- Duncan O´Finioan
- Nassim Haramein
- Alex Collier
- Klaus Dona
- Graham Hancock 
- Billy Meiers
- Wendelle Stevens
- Jim Marrs
- Joseph Farrell
- Charles Forte
- Pete Peterson
- Ralphe Ring
- Richard Dolan
- Clifford Stone
- John Lear
- jane Burgemeister
- Bill Hamilton
- Benjamin Fulford
- Mr X
- Stewart Swerdlow
- Val Valerien
- Carlos Castaneda
- Richard Hoagland
- Max Igan
- John Mack
- Carol Rosin
- Phillip Corso
- Edgar Mitchell
- Gordon Cooper
- James Horak
- Niara Isley
- Mary Rodwell
- David Icke (but only when he’s not talking about reptoids or anything metaphysical)
- David Wilcock
- Henry Deacon
- Bob Lazar
- Paola Harris
- Colin Andrews
- Charles Hall
- Barry King

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Well I'd be in, in theory, but you're talking about possibly dozens of different data points here; and from multiple sources (depending on how many participated). A nice idea for sure, but it would take a lot of work to organize and collate the information. Perhaps a series of polls might be better? Although working with the limited functionality of the poll system might be difficult.

[Ultima Thule]

I think I was obscure in what I suggested.. What I meant was a "sort of poll" as in a database taking place right here, in the form of posts where people tell in a nutshell their POV and from where new incoming people can:

a. get a feel about general world views and what people in here find plausible
b. get a list of names of whistleblowers and lecturers that in general are accepted as worth a look, perhaps saving tons of time
c. etc.

Juha

[alienHunter]

well, here's a short and sweet assessment of one 'enlightened' character...

I think Courtney Brown is a fraud...It didn't hit me until the 2nd reading of his Cosmic Voyage...it's b.s. (in my humble opinion). Also, I think David Wilcock is interesting but often wrong in his predictions. Steven Greer is the individual that really renewed my interest in the UAP and I think Bill Ryan is somewhat inspirational.

[Lettherebelight]

I think you may have a problem with this one, Juha.

It looks like it's easier for folks to identify what they don't buy rather than the other way around!

I still think this is a good idea though....

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

IMHO the guy known as 'Sleeper', also Lou Baldin, is faaaaaaaake.

See here why I think this: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post363194

If there is one contactee I do like, trust, follow, is Alex Collier. No proof, but lots of information that just rings true. Anyone agree/disagree?

[aranuk]

I agree with most of what you said Juha. I also think this thread is a very good idea. Surely with the good intentions you have in opening this thread I feel we should voice our opinions on the BS too, bearing in mind what the "ficticous" Sherlock Holmes said about when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

Stan

[Ultima Thule]

@ ARANUK - good point, permission to BUST is granted.

[KosmicKat]

Posted by aranuk (here)
Surely with the good intentions you have in opening this thread I feel we should voice our opinions on the BS too, bearing in mind what the "ficticous" Sherlock Holmes said about when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

How do we decide what is impossible? Lord Kelvin, a respected scientist, once opined that "heavier-than-air" flying machines would never be possible. As controversial as the subject is, a few generations ago the notion of a flight to the Moon was dismissed as nothing more than fanciful nonsense and quite impossible in reality.

By all means, decide that something is completely impossible but be prepared to revise your opinion in the light of new data.

[Ultima Thule]

@ KosmicKat - no need to decide absolutely here what is or is not impossible. I would have people post here the exact opposites as their POVs with no contest or argument nor attempts to convert other people to own ways of thinking. To create a full spectrum of what people in Avalon find plausible. Debating can and is ;-) usually done in other threads.

[TraineeHuman]

You also need to consider the many individuals who, though insiders or close to insiders, are unwitting spreaders of misinformation. It seems to me there are many of these. It seems to me that even the best whistleblowers are fed at least some deliberate misinfo, such that they can't tell the difference between it and genuine information.

[Ultima Thule]

@ Traineehuman Indeed there are, I have no idea if there is even one individual whose information isn´t even a bit compromised? I hope that even in spite of that "certainty of being wrong to some extent", people would present their POV and what they find plausible. I am just at the moment listening to Alex Collier where he talks about holographic society where all information is provided to all, this kind of is my idea here - to share information and POV for people to build upon them and improve.

[smiller113]

During my tour of duty in the USMC (69-73), I saw a few Marines wearing campaign medals of the Viet Nam war and later found out they had not even set foot in the country. Looking back, they were very convincing in their war stories but each had mannerisms that gave them away. At 60, my level of discernment has increased and I use those experiences as a guide when I'm listening to all the whistleblowers.

The first time I watched a Bob Dean video I was convinced he was "one of those guys". He was showing photos he had obtained from the Japanese that had been taken during one of the Apollo missions. The photos showed several long, white, cylindrical, tube like ships that he said were between 1 and 2 miles in length. I was thinking, "What a bunch of crap!". However, one day I was driving to work on a bright October day and glanced up to see a long, white, cylindrical, tube like ship stationary in the sky. Since then I have not been to quick to judgement.

[Borden]

I agree with the point made by TraineeHuman about unwitting disinformation. I think that genuine whistleblowers might be corrupted with nonsense in order to discredit everything they initially said. Some people think this happened to David Icke. Personally I think that the reptilian theme is definitely worth looking at, though I find it hard to believe in alien shape-shifters. I think there may be something far more subtle to it than that. I certainly don't dismiss Icke, and even if I feel he may be wrong about certain things I still pay attention to his theories and research. He himself admits that he can't be right one hundred percenbt of the time. At least he is looking.

In the spirit of the thread, I was going to name a list of people I find credible, but off the top of my head I can only think of Graham Hancock and Klaus Dona, who I think I mentioned in my thread, 'con artists'. Other than that, I suppose I could name those who I find very interesting and do not dismiss ... but haven't decided about, or can't decide about. Unfortunately the list I could give of those I find to be palpable con-men is too long, and full of names you all know well.

I am finding this more and more of a depressing subject. Sometimes I think the powers that be have us all sewn up. How they must laugh at so much of the nonsense that has blighted the grains of truth that escaped their grasp.

Thank you, Juha, for your effort ... but I think naming frauds is a nervy business. Seems disgusting really. We're on planet Earth though ... not planet integrity.

[Ultima Thule]

Thanks Borden, as you say the naming frauds is not very productive, so I really hope for people to name plausible figures! Will add Klaus Dona to the list!
Juha

[Seikou-Kishi]

Ha! I should think a lot of us don't even know what we ourselves consider plausible. I guess the information just exists in a big fog :D

[Ultima Thule]

You are right seikou-kishi! If I ever in my life would be certain of even one thing for an instant - it would probably be changed and not certain the immediate next instant...
One idea in this thread indeed would be to encourage people to search themselves and "output" what it is that they can find plausible at the end of the day - even though most certainly the best we can get is 60% right - 50% wrong ratio
Juha

[markpierre]

The responses here are really interesting. I thought I was going to have to go against the grain to confess that I don't 'believe' anything anymore. And 'believing in' something just sounds sort of absurd to me.

I guess I must believe I'm sitting here because it's stinking hot and the fan I have is too small to reach me with much relief.

But every morning I get up and recognize that I'm different than I was the day before, and every evening different again. I don't know how, I don't know why.

Anything is plausible, but do I need things to be a certain way, compared to any other certain way? I don't even know that. Maybe mostly I think I do, but it comes the way it comes anyway.

One of the blessings of joining Avalon has been the volumes of information that don't necessarily support a 'truth', but are doing a great job of exploding my illusions.

Maybe a different 'sort of truth', and that's a really good thing. It's the same thing that's been occurring in me, revealing all the beliefs I hold or once held, to be just that.

Nothing but beliefs.

Of course I have opinions, but I don't really want to need to keep them.

[Ultima Thule]

@ Markpierre
I can share the frustration I have seen several people in Avalon exhibiting: is there any way to discern from a field of a solute truths, absolute lies or truths/lies that have gone through chinese whisper, accidental disinformation, purposeful disinformation and you name it, what is a tiny little bit of truth?

In the end, all one can do that is REAL, is to try to find out who am I?

But in the meantime, I am hopeful that we can help other people finding their way - as someone had in his/her signature a quote(if my memory serves me right): better than to travel a path is to find a new way and leave a trail behind.

Juha

[Simonm]

Am I possibly missing the point of this and other "con" threads here? Ever since I started to awaken and see things for what they could be, I have had an open mind about everything. I remember seeing David Icke and hearing his words, "what if" and "could it" Ever since then I have taken everything with a pinch of salt and then researched the subject, whatever it might be at a particular time, and seen if there is a possibility of it being true. With subjects that may not be easily researchable I still have an open mind. Surely, if that is done then the possibility is removed to be "conned"?

Apologies if I have missed the point.